Completely disagree. Grades are not dispositive of SAT performance. A kid playing on three teams who did not elect honors or who opted out is going to score the same, give or take a percentile.
Let's not deal with anecdotal information, let's deal with specifics. An honor student will take Algebra in eighth grade, Geometry in ninth grade, Algebra II in tenth grade, Precalculus in eleventh grade, and Calculus AB or BC in their senior year.
A non-honors student might not start Algebra until ninth grade and might be placed in an 18-month or 24-month program before sitting for the Regents. That places this same student in Geometry in tenth grade.
While the SAT Math section only requires Algebra and Geometry, which student would you say is better prepared as a junior to sit for the PSAT/PLAN and SAT/ACT exams?
Coming back to the 90th-percentile question, a Math score of 680 is needed to meet that requirement. Verbal scores require a 660 and writing requires a 650. Bottom line is that a 90th-percentile performance is 1440/2090.
Originally Posted by Anonymous
And the competitive Catholic schools like Chaminade and Regis that do not technically offer AP have classes that are in fact harder than most similar AP courses in the publics. I know because I have asked and have seen the curriculum.
Unless you have sat for the Calculus BC course, how can you make that assessment?
Let me ask you a different question : Do you know why specific schools do not offer an AP course? (Hint : There is a reason why some schools are not permitted to offer AP courses. BOTC will let you do that research and there is a reason.)
Originally Posted by Anonymous
In my high school the two kids who scored over 1450 on the SATs both had high 80s in non-honors. Our valedictorian had a 1300. Grades "may" be indicative but they are not determinative of SAT performance.
Individual cases in isolation cannot be used to prove or disprove the point. For example, consider the following question : What were the scores of all non-honors students with an average in the high 80s? We strongly suspect you are highlighting statistical outliers and concluding that such is expected performance.
I am not relying on anecdotal information: I've spoken to two departmental heads at Regis, and to Chaminade alumni "recruiters", and have asked the question "why no AP classes?" They both had the same answer: every class is higher than AP level, so we don't have to. They went further and said they simply cover too much information already and to add more to meet the AP requirements is too restrictive and not realistic. (That's more investigation than a Google search.)
And I know enough about standardized tests to NOT draw conclusions based on either end of the bell curve. Smarter kids are generally better students, get better grades and score higher on the SAT.
But my original point remains: you can't say a kid with a 3.5 in non-honors is not in the running for an ivy, ND, Duke, G-town etc. You have no idea what the relative competition is in that high school, what courses are harder or easier, or what teachers grade higher or lower. Besides, in a system that adds points to honors classes, a higher GPA is a just that -- a higher GPA. In our school district honors/AP classes get an additional 4% added to the raw grade. So, if you're a 3.3 raw in all honors, that gets upped to about a 3.5. If you're a 2.9 or 3.7 in non-honors, you're a 2.9 or 3.7.
I say a 3.5 puts one within range (honors or non-honors), and the SAT gets you in the door (or not). And I'll take it one step further ... a 3.5 in non-honors is not an indicator of future average or poor SAT performance.
My advice to the parents of this boy ... tell him to have a great four years at Georgetown! It is the best school of the ones mentioned, and a no-brainer unless playing for a lax national championship is more important than the degree (which I think would be a mistake). Good luck and congratulations.
Thank you, two points I am considering are: Georgetown is the best of the choices, but the loans will be much larger and there is very little to no academic support. Some of the other schools such as PSU are offering more money and full support in terms of scheduling, mandatory study halls and tutoring when ever the kid requests it. Still a top school(37) with a strong alumni, Same at Maryland (62) but they have a lower ranking academically, and are offering less money.
This seems like it's all your decision - "I am considering...". Does your son have any say in the matter or are you controling the whole process and he'll take what you decide for him? What school does HE WANT to go to? Trust me, if you make this deceision for him it will probably not work out. It doesn't sound like he can make a bad decision so let him make the final call.
I appreciate what you are saying, and my son did go and visit with all the coaches, he definitely has his preferences. We (I) am trying to have him consider all of the variables. A 14-15 year old boy does not have the wisdom/foresight to make this decision without parental input. Of course, we would not force him to go somewhere he does not "feel", we didn't even visit the Ivies (yes, they called!) because it is not the right fit academically and we are trying to be realistic. A young boy also does not know what it is like to come out of school with massive debt, so cost is also a factor. Like you said, all good choices, so hopefully we make the right decision!
