Use this thread to discuss lacrosse pertaining to 8th Grade Boys (2028 Grads) for the Fall 2023/Summer 2024 Season.

Just looking at the 91 shock roster. 1/3 of the team is from out of state. Is that the norm for Long Island 91 teams? You would think with 1/3 of the team out of state it would be considered a national team.

Just curious where you found the roster?

I've seen other threads where someone else references rosters being posted and just assumed that they were referring to their own access to rosters.

It's not posted anywhere and the roster is all in state. Don't buy that [Censored].

🤣. Their goalie just committed to UVA and he’s from the Midwest!

I googled Team 91 Shock ..... They have kids from Texas/Conn/Ind on their roster. Must be a 91 coach/director telling you not to buy that [Censored].......

very inaccurate not sure why you would state that the Shock 2025 team is not a Long island team they are a national team a large group of them are from LI but most of their top players are from out of NY state just check out the commits from team see where they go to private school and live TX MD CT IL lets please keep this board honest

This is a 2028 board

My 1st grader could have written a more coherent statement.

Take this to the correct age board. This is 2028 board! Yes they are a national team but no one here cares.

Seriously, how bored does one person need to be to spend free time perusing 2025 rosters and investigating where kids are committing to for a graduating class 3 years older than our kids. Haters have so much time on their hands…

If you are on a top 91 team, its only a matter of time before you are replaced by someone else: maybe a holdback or an out-of-state player, but it’s gonna happen. The only players who stick around are those with the same last name as the Coaches.

Maybe they have a child in 25

Maybe they are alerting people on or thinking about 91 that you may be replaced by an out of state child.

Probably just as bored as you spending your free time responding to a message board. 91 parents' knees shaking that their kid will eventually be replaced by some kid from Tx or the Midwest.

Kids on #1 ranked teams are replaceable. Not just by a better player but also by a reclass. Much easier for a team to improve this way than to focus on development.

This sounds about right. The 91 Shock roster is full of out-of-state kids and holdbacks. Same with Express. These clubs fly the older out-of-state kids in and throw them on the field a head of their longtime on-age, local players. Yep, it’s normal for both those clubs.

My son played for that team. I guarantee you a substantial portion of the roster is out-of-state. The real influx of reclasses, holdbacks, older out-of-state kids starts in 9th grade. I’m
sure it’s common with all the high school 91 teams.

TAKE THIS TO THE CORRECT BOARD. THIS IS FOR 2028’s only!!

Out of state kids coming to 2028 T91 too.

We know they do, reclasses also coming too. Only ones that get to stay are the coaches kids. Everyone knows they don’t develop players, we don’t care though. That’s a 91 parent/player problem. They should’ve seen this coming.

This is a riveting conversation…

So far we have clarified the following:
- 91 doesn’t care about its players because new kids make the team every year.
- there are kids that are not from Long Island on team 91

91 is alone in this practice so everyone should beware.

Someone is a little over stimulated.

I can see that happening with venom if they can’t crack the top 10 this year for rankings.

What happen? Quit on the season again?

Looks like an OK field for Columbus Day Inv in a couple weeks. Legacy, Chucks, PrimeTime, Rush, and a few others. Chain Bridge All Stars, not sure who that is but when I Google Chain Bridge, it comes up DC.

Why is Chucks playing in B bracket

Because it’s their B team. Their A team isn’t doing this tournament

Surge is feeling confident!

Who and why are you writing this? Does the Express parents know they're on the B team?

Rough summer apparently

Chucks combined a few teams. Over 50 kids. Guessing the second half of the roster will be attending.

Chucks A team isn’t in the A bracket though. Guess they need some of the A Chucks players to play for the B team Chucks.

Some unhappy chuck parents already sounding off. What did you think was going to happen

I’m a bit of an outsider and am looking for clarification. The team that is playing in the Columbus Day tournament, is that players that made the “chucks” team?

They all made the “chucks”

I hope Express was transparent about that at sign ups. I know many bought in and took a spot on the “chucks “ with the anticipation of their kid playing on a AA team, now they get to play True Blue, Dune Dawgs and a Frost team that lost many kids

Buyer beware, I’m sure there were some parents who knew they’d be on the B team, and now there are some who are just learning this. It’s an evil empire.

People there are two chucks teams
Orange chuck
Black chuck
The black chuck team is last year’s team they will be just fine.
The orange team is named Chucks, but they are the bteam
Most of those kids were on the express B team already
The new kids that are on the bteam were never gonna be the A-Team Chuck’s. Maybe a couple probably less than a handful actually thought they’d make the top Chuck’s team.

It’s going to be OK. Those kids a or B are going to be OK

All heck will break loose if the top kids are asked to play on the bteam but probably unlikely to happen

Venom and dune dogs the divisions

Not many teams in Columbus day tournament for this grade. That’s unusual.

Where’s 2Way? Or the Chucks A team?
Chain Bridge is a DC team

Where are the rebels or northman?

Must be fun for Chucks AA team to have to explain the nuance of the 1 Chucks team that is really 2 Chucks teams. There’s a reason they are both called the Chucks. They are one team. They practice as one team. They will find out tournament to tournament what team they will be playing on. Will the starters be on the AA team all yr? Yes. Will the back end of the AA team be asked or told to play for the B team at times? Yes! Don’t have a bad practice week…..

I guess we’ll find out in 2 weeks which kid made A and which kid made B. Can’t wait to talk to the parents

Will your sons team still lose to them yes.

Regardless of which players show up they’re not even a top 20 team. Let’s move on.

This is Long Island thread so they are very relevant. So basically nothing has really changed other than they added another team. Top team will be top 1-3 on the island.
The b players would have been 2nd string on other teams.
Nothing earth shattering really. If the possibility of the top chucks team struggling or in house fighting makes people excited so be it.

Where is be the best, chucks A, s2s

If you are hoping to hear the top players from legacy or rebels are not on the A team you are going to be disappointed. None of last years chuck players are demoted either.

If any of those players were to be put on the B team then yes there would be fireworks but I really don’t believe that will happen.

Good point, I guess they’re gearing up for tri star

Wow you know everything except the truth

More interested in seeing how big their roster gets from start to the end of the season.

Will our sons be playing not watching yes

LOL

UPDATED RANKINGS:

Venom
Express A
Shore
Legacy
Rush
Surge
Northmen
Rebels
BTB
True

Because they’ve played so much since July, you are just dialed in… Ok.

I would move BTB and Rebels above Surge.

I wouldn’t

Wow Legacy easy schedule.

They’ll be 2-1 or 1-2

It's funny how this is a legacy tournament and some how they don't play venom. It has to be a coincidence

Guys. This is a fall tournament, a chance to knock off the rust, see where teams need to improve, etc. Legacy will learn from the 3 games they play, and be better as a result. Maybe 91 requested they don’t play Legacy? Who cares. And I’m not a parent of either.

What are you people talking about? The thought process and rationale behind the posts on this board are really special.

Venom asked to not play legacy? I doubt any club is asking not to play another team.

Legacy has an easy schedule? Do you know how many, if any, prime time kids reclassed into Connecticut prep schools? I certainly don’t, but I don’t make assumptions. You realize that prime time beat the chucks, espress north, and legacy last spring?

Surge 0-3
Venom 3-0

We could see a Venom/Surge Final

This happens at every tournament with every team. Yes the team that runs tournament usually gets easier schedule. This is true of all teams

No it don’t

The schedules have been removed. Get a clue.

Venom decided not to play in this one either

English major?

Updated Rankings:

GSB
Frost
Dune Dawgs
ECE
True Blue
Express Orange
Rebels
BTB

It won’t matter. Rush and venom will beat them if they have to play them.

Who is Surge gonna beat??

Who is Surge gonna beat??[/quote]
Don’t worry about Surge, just focus your concerns on if your son will get any playing time

Don’t worry about Surge, just focus your concerns on if your son will get any playing time[/quote]

Speaking of that, Surge cut their roster down at all? Huge last yr

Where are the Chucks AA? Is Islip too close?

Not at Islip try again

Don’t worry about Surge, just focus your concerns on if your son will get any playing time[/quote]
Surge 0-3. ButI’m sure your kid will be out there the whole game just lovin it!

Surge’s roster is at 23. Chucks can’t do central islip because of coaching conflicts

Why is every team but Legacy and Rush hiding their schedules? Are the webmasters on long term vacation?

Because they don’t have their sh;t together. Not strategic

Chucks B team is playing so the coaches will already be at the tournament so that explanation makes no sense.

chucks are avoiding venom

Actually some teams choose not to publicly release their schedules but all the players received them a long time ago. It’s a choice.

Agreed

Did true or turtles find enough for 28’ teams?

Chucks didn’t quit on the season. Chucks play everyone go look at their record. Nice try thought.

Legacy vs Rush??? Battle of Suffolk county south shore. Why have they never played each other?

TZ nervous.

That’s true Venom did quit.

Maybe we get to see that Monday

Not a chance

i think rush would beat legacy if they played each other

Yea they would just not the 28

North and 2Way better than all of these.

Yep. Where are they?

Not from Long Island.
Is this a thread about 8th grade lacrosse or written by 8th grade lacrosse players? The lack of comprehension is mind boggling.

Older too!

Ok, Einstein, pretty sure we are on the LI, CT, Westchester 2028 thread. Where are 2Way and Express North located?

Haaaaa, previous poster was being a clown and just got lit up

Really?

Open the LI, CT, Westchester forum. Then, if your attention and intelligence allows, scroll a little down. And you will see this.
https://www.backofthecage.com/ubbth...rfield-ct-youth-lacrosse.html#Post126299

That is the thread to discuss the reclasses and holdbacks of Westchester and Connecticut.

You’re welcome

Um “previous poster” was me. And I just copy and pasted the correct thread to discuss youth lacrosse in the aforementioned areas.
You’re welcome again.

In his defense they may be better it’s just that no one cares because they routinely have older kids.

I feel so satisfied. You pointed me to the LI, CT, amd Westchester forum. One step further, I find myself on the 2028 thread. You’re telling us ‘28 2Way and Express North do not fall under Long Island, Connecticut, or Westchester, and are not in the 2028 class?
Yes, please tell me where we got off track.
And yes— 2Way and Exlress own whatever the Island can put forth in 2028.

Gotcha
New Rankings for the area:

2way
Express north
Prime time
Venom

Everyone else…….

Well one of them has age verified 8th graders. EN went 5-5 after the World Series, did t exactly own anyone!

How did Venom do after the WS? Oh yeah, they mailed it in. Quitters.

Why you so angry ?

Columbus Day Predictions:

AA - Venom
A - Express Chucks Orange

A Igloo Frost

Of course bc they will have a handful of Chucks Black kids playing in a B bracket! It’s happening and thats a fact.

Jeez, you’ve really gone out on a limb here….

Igloo Frost has no shot of winning a game.

No way express will let losing to igloo frost happen. They will have some ringers in there

Does it matter in any way whatsoever? Other than you Bragging to your clown work buddies. Will anyone care in a year, 6 months or even 3 months? Here’s a hint club mom, no one cares.

By that measure nothing matters so why ever do anything right?

Wrong, someone cares. The families that thought they would be on the A team but were asked to play tomorrow

Odds are you aren’t one of those families so why you care so much?

Making observations pal

Called it

Orange beat C teams with A players

Surge thump

At least Surge played in the A bracket, unlike express

Bringing lumberjax and venom kids vs b teams was about as low class as we’ve seen in this age group.

Atleast kids got to see what team they are on now, I feel sorry for the kids that’s thought they were going to play aa teams and played frost, true blue and dune dawgs

I’m almost certain many think they’ll still be on the black team, they got bamboozled

Given venom and the lumberjacks were at a different field location I find this quite absurd.

Lumberjacks got beat soundly by Chain Bridge All Stars, whoever they are. Venom then beat Chain Bridge in the finals. They were very good, just couldn’t outlast 91.

That’s not an observation Pal

Legacy gave Venom a good game today!

They had kids who played for those teams last year playing in a b tournament, utterly destroying teams

Legacy didn’t play 91 for the championship, the championship was chain vs 91

I think the last guy meant that express A picked up some players from venom and legacy and are now playing against B teams. I’m sure he was saying that that [Censored] for kids who used to play on Venom and are now playing the Dunedogs and Frost. Got sold a bill of goods…

They didn’t play. Tourney Machine is wrong. Chain Bridge beat Legacy 5-2, and Chain Bridge played Venom in Finals

Those express parents were pissed that they were asked to play in the B bracket. I spoke to one last night who threatened to leave if that happens again to them. I told him you knew what you were getting yourself into with express. Legacy/venom parents were fuming but they have to earn their stripes

Legacy can only dream of losing to Venom 4-2

So legacy had 1 win yesterday?

As a parent on Dune I was there and saw those express parents losing their minds. I'm surprised they didn't pull their sons and leave the tournament they were that upset. With 40 something on the roster, someone has to play with the less skilled players

Shame on you Express - with these tournaments, combo teams and national teams lax has become a total joke.
All driven by the greedy directors.

Complete BS! They had 15 kids on the roster yesterday and asked the kids that were first year Express players to play to see how they played in games. Get over it people, it's the Fall. I never saw parents care so much about a championship t-shirt. Learn from your kids, they can care less, it's the parents like you who are the problem.

They were in the wrong bracket. The team knew who they were playing and they all still showed up and played in a "B bracket". So yeah, they should have pulled their kids, but they should have done it before the tournament.

Couple observations from yesterday.

Venom looked good and didn’t lose a game. Picked up where they left off last year. Any person who comes on here and bashes them is ridiculous. They are the most consistent team on the island. good athletes and well coached. Stop with the venom detest. If you’re bashing them, you either have a personal vendetta or are jealous your son can’t make it. Get over it.

3 teams tied for second place. Chain, PT, and legacy were all 1-1-1. When this is the case, head to head goes out the window and it’s either goal differential or goals against that goes into deciding the second place team. Rumor has it, there was a mistake. Don’t matter, I don’t think anyone was gonna beat venom yesterday.

Chain was a mix of madlax and other teams from the DC area. Most likely older players but this is the norm so whatever at this point.

Surge deserves a ton of credit for playing in the brackets that they do. They are in a unique situation being much better than most B teams choosing to face tougher competition.

Rush tied both Chain and surge. Yet Chain beat legacy and legacy beat surge by a good margin. Welcome to fall ball. Inconsistency at its best.

I have no idea what happened with express and unless a parent of one of the new kids comes on here and spills the beans, we are just making assumptions.

Parent of Chain Bridge kids. We had a 9 kids from DC Express, 2 from Madlax, and 4-5 from Next Level. The kids are all buddies from school, it was a father-son trip up to Long Island, and the kids have never played or practiced together. Kind of a Club Lacrosse Detox adventure for fun.

Played Venom twice. They are a fantastic team, both player-wise and coaching. Just a very well oiled machine. And their 2 goalies are fantastic. Made every save they’re supposed to, and then some. The #3 is a very clever player. Can do it all. We definitely ran out of gas with only 17 players, but had a blast competing with that team. And no— we are not a bunch of older players. I know Venom’s goalie is a recent reclass from 2027 Machine, but whatever. Kid is phenomenal. Fun to play against him.

A breathe of fresh air - school teamates / friends on a road trip, playing together to have fun. Novel concept. Club lax has become a cesspool. Hope you all enjoyed the trip up.

Another Chain parent here. It was a good tournament. Facilities are very nice. As noted above, the CBAllstars is just for fun, which should have been obvious given the boys have nicknames on the back of their jerseys. We have done local box leagues and Sixers inconsistently over the past couple of years. All depends on the boys schedules. But it was great to play LI teams who our clubs really only see at the big tournaments in summer/fall

I hope we do more tournaments in the future because the boys love it. There's no pressure on the boys and it's considerably less expensive for the parents (tournament fee only divided by # of players). Maybe it's a new club model!!

If express wanted to test the kids out why join the b bracket? Most aa kids can score at will vs b teams, and from their picture there was 19/48 on that team Monday, I’m sure a few kids were away, but those new hopeful express parents need to see the reality that everyone else is seeing. The express bait and switch for 5k.

I’m sure btb, rebels, rush or Surge wouldn’t mind some of those kids that will be delegated to the orange squad

In my mind if they were transparent from the start it would be a lot more palatable. I know some kids that made the chucks team that initially really confused me, but it all makes more sense now

They’re going with the laxachussetts model, you can move up or down from black/orange, but the painful truth is most of the black spots are set in stone.

Anyone having buyers remorse fee out other teams now before it’s too late

Long Island parents that are living through their kids should learn from your parents and sons. Great Job!`

Love this! This is how it all started. I hope the pendulum swings to a mode where the money drives national teams and the local club teams operate more like regional rec teams at lower cost and intensity. Player development is dead at the local club level.

It’s all about the recruiting and not the development. Kids should be the focus but winning drives these businesses so money always wins over the kids.

Recruiting, scholarships and reclassing is the 91 way.

Express Dad here-not saying it’s right/wrong, but from what I understand, (and my son did not play Monday), the Columbus Day tourney roster was compiled of B team plus new kids who made the team, several of whom are considered A players. Clearly not the bracket they should’ve been in. I believe, and don’t quote me, is that the coaches wanted to see the new kids play in something other than practice.

Lacrosse on the island (and other sports/places) was always the best because it was focused on playing for your local club/town and high school. All sports are better when the communities are involved and the players and families aspire to play for and give back to those communities. Club lacrosse is not aligned with what makes sports great. Hope the smart folks figure this out.

And when your kid doesn’t get asked to play with buddies you’ll be complaining

Buddies that have never played together? Sus

Nope keep them and their parents

Not all of the new express players played orange so how do you explain that?

Have the dC Express kids played together? Sure. The 4 NL kids play together? Sure. But the group of 16 kids had never played together once. Never practiced. No plays. No coaches. The dad who coached gave one order— no Hero Ball. It was a father son trip. Kids called their own numbers on the field, Some kids played out of position. Would like to have had more chemistry, but whatever.

The Express "B" team isn't a B team. If they wanted to see how their players compete, then they should have been in the other bracket.

Based on all the posting over the last couple days, sounds like there’s an opportunity for some parents to get their kids together from different teams in different schools and do what the Chainbridge kids from Virginia did. Club lacrosse has grown to be pretty toxic around here, we played that team and those kids were having a blast and the Dad’s were too. The players on that team were all elite level, but they were not getting screamed at. They were definitely confused at times and lacked some cohesiveness, but they gave us all we wanted and appeared to have fun doing it. I’m guessing each player got a little better from it, too. Kudos to those dads for putting it together. I’m jealous!

Would be great to see pickup games put together for all kids that want to play at this age and not hand picked kids based on talent.

I've seen it all from slime ball PAL directors ripping apart club teams, town travel teams and destroying friendships.... Just so they can keep their kids in a certain program --- to Parents who will flat out lie to you and stiff the coaches with the bill just because they think their kid should play for free ..... Its sad and pathetic ...... All for a piece of 1/12 of a lax scholarship ......

Correct. The new legacy lumberjax kids were on orange and only one of the new rebels was on that orange team.
Coach wanted to see how they measured up against B teams.

I think the orange express team will be like Surge now.
Little better than B, but not quite as good as A
The question is, what A players will he keep using on that orange team to keep it at that level and will those players be happy?!

There are teams on Long Island, that are advertising themselves as valid teams, but really only have around 10 players. They then reach out to "hired hands" essentially, and show up and play in tournaments with MERC players. This is true for multiple teams including Express Orange (proven this weekend), and from what everyone is hearing, Legacy East and GSB Blue. If you play these teams, you are only playing around 10 players that are actually on these teams. The remainder are either players from other teams/ages in their club, players from the higher class team for their age, or straight ringers.

Same with express
Same with any team for good players
Maybe minus the reclass

The best players on venom/express don’t have to pay.
If you pay you know your role

Except it's not....Surge is a stand-alone team and have previously played competitive games against Frost and Dune Dawgs (I bet GSB White will be in that conversation as well). "Express Orange" is about as real as the Easter Bunny. It's only 7 players that are probably on that team, and the rest are OG Chucks. 2 former Lumberjax, 1 Venom, and 1 Adrenaline player (all AA teams), were on the field (verified blatantly by their helmets). This is what happens when all you care about is taking tuition money. If you can't field a roster of at least 15 kids, call up another club in a similar boat and work something out. But that will never happen because integrity is long absent from the club team scene.

Surge has had Venom players play in the past including goalie fogo and defense
They have additional helmets to hide this fact

Nobody is hiding anything- they want to wear the same helmets as their teammates. Everyone knows most of the kids you can’t hide players on the field

I’m sorry I stand corrected
I thought that a stand alone team meant that they only play in tournaments with the kids who pay tuition, practice and are not on other higher level teams

The fact that this was brought up is laughable. It was one tournament where surge had no goalie at a tournament in november at stony brook, so the venom goalie played. the fogo played in a different tournament last fall at farmingdale because they had no fogo. I don't remember any defensemen playing for surge.

Very pathetic attempt by someone to bring shade on Surge, i don't think they need your negativity.

Leave Surge alone, they are trying to make kids better. And for the record, they have never used Venom players.

You might want to walk that back. They absolutely used venom kids a couple of years ago. Goalie and fogo same game. They weren’t trying to hide it. But it was a couple of years ago so who cares.

Exactly right! The only reason for any of this is the Directors can’t say no to the tuition from those 10 families. If you don’t have enough players to make a team you should cut those players so they can go play somewhere else on a real team. It was a con job.

But then those players could go play for another team… that’s contrary to what a lot of these club directors are about— tuition, and being able to beat the other competing clubs in the area. If they were truly about developing lacrosse players, they’d do exactly what you suggest— cut the players who will not play so they can go learn and develop elsewhere.

LIke I said, my son has been on the team a few years, I don't know all of the new kids. There might've been some who just joined who didn't play, but i don't know. They are going with a black team and orange team, although it seems that some of the lower AA players will be playing with orange to fill out that team. If not, I'm not sure what the plan is.

Son if jailbird has played w surge as well. Defense.

Legacy missing players today? Or took step back in Offseason?

Surge has bigger issues! The head coach is verbally abusive. All he does is tell the kids what they did wrong and how bad they are. Completely favors all the Hills kids. Tells the kids they’re the worst lacrosse players and they’re losers. Coach tells the kids “ you’re all losers, you must like losing. I’m gonna call you losers”. How 91 stills lets this guy coach children is amazing! The worst part is the parents complain about him but continue to pay to be there. Very sad.

What?

Be the best just better team better coaching

More like BTB improved again. They have the best coach i have seen in club.

He is a great coach. But he screwed over a bunch of kids this past tryouts. I heard!

New Rankings for Long Island:
Venom
Express
BTB
Legacy
S2S
Rebels
Igloo/Surge

Where Rush BTB is not beating Rush

anyone have a report from Capelli in Jersey? How'd the LI teams do?

I guess you put Rush with Surge since they just tied .......

50/50

Venom
Big gap
Express
Gap
BTB
Legacy
Rush
S2S
Rebels
Igloo/Surge

Fixed it

BTB beat a good team by 1. They beat 2 B teams and a town team without its top players. Let’s see them in a true AA bracket.

Venom parents are fool. Wait so if Express beat you will you quit on Spring season.

BTB was 2-7 vs these teams last season.

Key word last season

We have a stage 5 clinger who’s very upset for some reason.

It was a B tourney relax.

Columbus Day could have been Called a b tourney calm down it’s fall ball

I predict they will do as well as Legacy, s2s, Rush and rebels do in a AA bracket

No need for nonsense like the above comment. You are what's wrong with the world today. I know the man personally he is more of a man then you will ever be.

Yes but unfortunately they will go nowhere with that coaching staff.

Who?

The word "then" means "at that time" and is used to talk about when things will happen. The word "than" is used to compare things.

I assuming they talking about Surge

Venom parents are fool. Wait so if Express beat you will you quit on Spring season.[/quote

If anything the gap got smaller! They only added one kid who will compete with the starters. The rest will come off the bench.

Really cool that the Chucks "B" team is playing in the wrong bracket again next weekend.

OMG, those parents are going to lose it. 5k to play in a B bracket

They are a B team playing in the B bracket and A team is in the A bracket.

FALSE, express entered 2 teams in the B bracket

Venom is much improved.

Obsessed much ? Take a deep breath, relax it will ne ok.

They also entered a team in the AA bracket. You think they entered 3 teams or possibly is there another explanation like maybe the third team is the East team?

How so??

It's the Chucks team with a few new players. They did this at the Columbus Day Tourney too.

Express North is going to find out what they are made of soon! Playing Venom, 2Way and Leading Edge. WOW!!

Go big or go home ! All those teams in that bracket are very good so I am sure they will all beat each other up. Kudos to those who made up the brackets and trying to set up competitive games. Most don't care about who "wins" these tourneys anymore - kids get better by playing competitive games.

That should be the focus

Finally a tournament that has been setup the correct way. AAA and a AA division.

Now there’s a AAA? Why not AAAA?

Express North with a nice 8-4 win over a talented BBL team today in a scrimmage. Should be fun next weekend!

Egos, am I right?

Tristar only checking ages younger than 2028?

Both teams proved the opposite by making it to the World Series championship, the only tournament that has on-age kids. So actually, they proved to be the best on-age teams. Add the holdback fool of 8th grade and who knows. All I know is both teams beat everyone else at the WS.

Absolutely love this! It’s fall ball, this is how you get better! All of these teams will find out where they stand. No cakewalks! Get out there, compete and get better.

Tend to agree that North and 2Way would top this list. Other than that it seems pretty accurate. Great thing is the kids are back playing again so we will learn more about these teams this Fall.

What happened to rebels ? Dropped out of Tri star ?

Looks like they’ve backed out, that bracket seemed like perfect competition for them. I’ve heard rumblings that they’ve been having some issues, does anyone from the rebels want to share the truth?

Nobody wants truth, truth is boring

You can’t handle the truth.

This is the last year they'll be together, if they make it through the year. Great group of kids and parents. Sad!

Over the years most of the team went to express, the rest will follow

For the most part they're a good of parents, they have a couple that are nuts but who doesn't. Some rebel players were ready to leave this year but stayed for one more year. This is definitely not there strongest team

True story

More importantly why does express now have 3 teams??

Don’t have a dog in the fight but why is that important? I would assume they have levels and will play the kids at the level they are at. What is wrong with that?

I see some posters talking about the $. Honestly, should the price be lower if your team isn’t as good? Is anyone really paying for wins and losses?

That Tristar blue division is fire

In the end, aren't we all just Express anyhow?

I know, True Blue, Dune Dawgs, EN Orange, and Chucks Orange.

Chucks will win it.

Not sure why the orange won't compete in the AA bracket, play in the red division. Might make some parents a little happier

Do all 3 team’s practice together?? Or just orange and black?

Why does it matter if the parents are happy? You can’t make some of the parents happy. Everyone thinks little Johnny is getting a scholarship…they aren’t.

Why would you not be “happy” to have your kid play at the appropriate level. Is this about the parents or the kids…unfortunately, I know the answer just highlighting the absurdity.

Don't believe all 3 practice together, but think that the black and orange do. Heard that they pick who is playing where week to week.

That's probably where they should be playing.

Have to say I'm pleasantly surprised. I kept waiting for Tri-star to change up the schedule (as often happens in tournaments) but it appears the AA bracket is actually locked. Great to see top-tier matchups this time of year. Excited to the new rosters, etc. This is a great class of kids, they all know each other on some level and they compete hard but there is respect and it's great to see.

I'm interested to see:
Venom- a lot of talk after the WS, etc. They are a great team and I'm sure they got better.
2Way- Always good and pulling in talent from all over
Leading Edge- well coached big team that always has difference makers.
Express- always tough and always competitive, very well coached.
E North- great run in the WS. They have mostly been a hot and cold team but winning the WS had to be good for adding to the roster.
PT- will be telling if PT has lost it's way or just doing what PT always does, priming for the HS years.

This is also my way-too-early-I-haven't-seen-any-of-these-teams predicted order of finish this weekend. App will be on refresh all morning!

Nothing really to argue about but I think it’s venom, 2Way leading edge, North as the top teams (in no order). PT and express one small step below.

Here's the early PowerRankings of excuses for any team that loses a game this weekend.

1. Our best players are still in football
2. Kids just met today for the first time
3. They had a bunch of holdbacks
4. They flew kids in / that kid's not really on their team
5. Daddy ball!
6. We've only had one practice

Good luck!!

Agreed. Except 1 and 6. Kids are playing football not lax and fall practice is minimal especially as the kids get older. But that’s why fall ball is never to be taken seriously; it’s just not representative of your team or your opponents. I know parents get excited about fall ball because it’s the beginning of the new year but fall ball often doesn’t translate into summer success. Enjoy the wins now because once high school hits wins and losses are meaningless cuz nobody cares

Nothing really to argue about but I think it’s venom, 2Way leading edge, North as the top teams (in no order). PT and express one small step below.
Um, I guess venom and north is one small step below

Well the scores don’t lie….Express Chucks Black is the best team on Long Island. We played them and Venom today and hands down Express Chucks was the better team. They have a much deeper roster than Venom. I guess we know who scored with the player movement between those 2 teams this summer and everyone can stop their chirping about Venom being the best. I wish 2way and Leading Edge would play 12 & 13 year olds and then we could really rank the 2028’s.
(To add salt in the haters wounds…the Express parents were even calm and nice)

This has express parent all over it

That would make you a prime time parent? With an interest in LI teams… hmmmm.
And you lost to both by 2 goals but you are here to tell us how deep express bench is?? I call BS. Nice try express mom!!

Venom is better. Express just brings in 2008 players to take faceoffs. Doesn’t really make them better. Cheaters maybe.

Maybe so but ultimately Express did what they always do. They won 2 out of 3 games. Rarely ever go 3-0 in tournaments.

Where did they get him from?

Old man wants to win by any means necessary

You can't claim to be the best team on Long Island when you are bringing in kids from out of state.

One observation from yesterday was that express isn’t the only team with a massive roster, Igloo and BTB were also both 30+

California 2027 West Coast Starz

Only real issue is the kids graduation year

Yeh but what happened to Venom in the Primetime game? Venom lost 2 out of 3 games.

Primetime played great, credit to them for flipping the script from a 8-1 loss to a 2 goal victory.

Played terrible. Venom stinks. Everyone rejoice. We get it

2028 Faceoff parents can’t be happy about that

Venom parents are mad.the coach going to cancel the season. You guys are pathetic.

I disagree. If he is truly in 8th grade but is older, so what? No rule for 2028s. The real issue is the previous post said "best on LI". If this kid is on Chucks Black for the year, so be it. But then the team becomes a national type team with kids from another state (CA to be exact) and is not the best LI talent.

Wonder where he will play at NAL

BTB parent - 27 on roster. 2 hurt, did not dress. 2 are goalies. New math is awesome.

After years of venom poaching, maneuvering, offering free tuition… this is satisfying to read. For such a super-team, engineered by LI lax parents, the last 6 months have to be a big disappointment. Maybe the kids cut over the summer weren’t the reason?

No excuses we/venom played flat in the last two games. Period

Just say they were the better team.

The question was what happened the last two games. Obviously you are a newbie to lacrosse. At this age it doesn’t matter win or loose only how your kid performs.

Express and Venom are the teams that get the looks at tournaments (from LI) There are great kids on other teams that will also get looks. Welcome to adult ball people! Please grow up!

Your a hammerhead venom lost and you can’t bring yourself to say hey Express was the better team that day.

Wait so Venom act like tools leading up to the tournament. Lose and says grow up people. This is great

If need be, Venom will just recruit kids from other states like they did for Shock which was a worse team at this age. That Shock team was a national team and not an LI team.

How about the fact that 2way and Leading Edge were head and shoulders above everyone else.

They both had better athletes and weapons all over the field.

Anyone who has played against or watched a Venom game know that those parents care about winning more than anything so this is disingenuous to say the least. You’ve heard the screaming, the cowbells in the past. Heck this team quit on the season because they didn’t win last yr.

This is fantastic. I see 3 & 4 seem to be the winners so far in the above posts.

Like having a FOGO fly in for an 8th grade game? Plenty of out of state players in express 2025.

To be fair, the top ranked players on Shock are all from LI, two going to NC and the last one has not announced, but can go to any school he wants. They all, and several other high D1 recruits have been on that team for a long time. And I am not a 91 parent. However, both 91 and Express attract, not recruit, other players from all over because of who those clubs are and their recruitment record.

Just to be clear the only issue with the California fly in is that he is a 2027. They can fly in whoever they want just have the kid be a 2028. Anyone on here trying to turn this on 91 is the reason clubs continue to pull this stuff

Been sitting this in depth analysis out on the sidelines, but I have to draw the line with this genius I’m quoting.
Are you serious? 2way and LE are saturated with kids 12-18 months older than any Long Island team. Period. End of story. And yes, it matters.

Yup. If the team continues to struggle get ready for the influx of out of state studs. The head coach of venom had to get relieved of head coaching duties for the 2026 team because it was so bad. They actually brought up 2027s to help them qualify for the World Series. That’s how bad it was. Then SL took over and brought in a lot of out of state studs. Maybe they should look at who’s running Venom.

91 started the influx of out of staters with the 2025 team. It’s prevalent with the 2026 team. 2027 seems ok now but you never now. If venom struggles they will do the same.

With this new philosophy us Long Islanders can’t cry about holdbacks if top teams are bringing them in from other states

Seems like that "Big Gap" between Venom and Express got old quickly. Prediction LI Express won't be the only LI team to beat Venom this year. That "Gap" between the two top teams is a lot smaller than you think.

Who cares. They are both good teams. Good to see two teams battling rather than blow outs. Better for the kids long term. Winning and losing, especially in fall ball, is of no consequence.

Apparently, Venom is lucky. Because if this was a 2 day tournament.. they would have lost to LE and 2Way as well. So, they would have been 1-4 versus the field. They need to call up Surge guys stat.

Lmao on surge guys

For get that what about the kids that left Express to win with Venom. Guess their plan’s didn’t work out.

Maybe they were holding LIE back? Express did get rid of a bunch of other guys as well?

That’s fool!

Winning and losing in youth travel Lacrosse in any season has no consequences. Fixed it.

That’s it? one game and the decision to leave was awful?
You are a goof ball lady

Unless your son is not playing and/or the coach is t fully committed, which means on the level of other clubs. You should just stay put at wherever you are. Top hopping makes no sense.

Express seems to really care about fall ball and what it means. Unfortunately it has no bearing on the future of any child. Get better, develop, focus on grades and stay the course. It all works out, let your kid do the talking 2-3 years from now!

Winning is good for the brand. And believe when 91 loses to Express and Vice verse it means something. This is about the age where the two NLF clubs from LI start to separate themselves from other LI teams. And if think playing for an NLF club isn’t advantage, it is in my opinion

Playing for a top club has its advantages but the key word is “playing’.There’s zero advantage to watching him on the sideline, hoping he’ll get in, but they keep running the same kids out there. Maybe you held your kid back to improve his shot (seems to be a trend with NLF clubs) - good luck w/ that. Any advantage will disappear by 10th grade. Chasing a Brand gets you no shortcut. Once they reach HS, it’s mostly on the individual athlete and those parents who bounced between Brands only alienate and burn them out more.

Ummmm ok. Last I checked this is a 2028 forum for westchester, Long Island, ct. facts are that 2Way and leading edge were much better. Not sure about the overly dramatic “everyone is 12–18 months older” statement either. Saw an awful lot of that 2Way roster at the World Series last summer.

Ummmm here are the facts. Both of those teams contain older players.
Is it cheating? No
Is it against the current rules for this age group? No
If you took away those older players, would those teams be as good as they are? No
If you took away those older players would they all of a sudden be bad teams? Absolutely not.
Are they “head and shoulders” above 3D New England? No
Are they “head and shoulders” above the Hawks? No
Do you know why?
Ummm yes you do

They are great teams regardless of the older players. But let’s not talk about how they are “head and shoulders” above everyone else without given the reason why. .

A few 2009s is fine. But when you have 2008s you are skirting the line. The reason these kids play down is primarily because they can’t cut it with kids their own age. Older, faster, stronger players in any sport will always have the advantage. The fact is 2way leading edge and 3D NE have more than what could be considered a fair amount of these players. Which makes it difficult for teams with a core of 2010 players to compete. Is it cheating, depends who you ask. If you are on the 2010 based team you should see it as a good opportunity for your kid to compete against bigger and stronger kids. It will help them in the long run. If you are worried about wins and loses, you are essentially screwed. The outcome of these games are irrelevant at this point. Teams in the top 25 have established themselves and in a few years will still be the teams in the discussion with college coaches. Visibility is a guarantee. So parents should care a little less about age and see the value in their child getting better. It will only help them in 2 years when it will actually matter. 91 MD got smoked by 91 Shock last year. It didn’t matter because they all got recruited. Wins don’t mean anything. Venom 1-2 with a loss to cross town rival LIE means nothing. Enjoy your son and shake an opposing parents hand when the game is over.

This

“Head and shoulders above” because they are 2years older!!! A head taller lmao

2Way parent here. There is NOBODY 2 years older on our team. We might have a few kids born in early to mid 2009 but that’s a few months older, not years. As one poster stated above we also made it to the World Series championship and most of that team is our current team. Lots of allegations but few facts because the facts don’t tell the story LI lacrosse wants to tell.

Early to mid 2009, we stand corrected. 2Way is only a year older than our boys. Nothing to see here, moving on….

THERE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE ANY EARLY OR MID 2009 BIRTHDAYS IN A 2028 AGE GROUP

I believe you 2way parent. I am sure much of this stems from the fact that 2way at the older age groups is very reclass dependent heavy, moreso than other clubs who may have a few of their own as wel but at this age group, I would agree with your statement

Our older kids are late 2009. Big difference!!
You have 15year olds we have 12 year olds

The fact someone wrote that and thinks it’s ok justifies how screwed up this sport is. Switch to birth year like soccer and even the playing field. Early 2009 puts kids at over a year older and in some cases almost 2 with late 2010. That’s a massive advantage. If you don’t see it then fine. Carry on with your cheat code. The aspect is 2way parents ping their chests when they score on little kids. Mind boggling. One dad in particular whose son is def early 2009. lost

EXACTLY

The real issue is it isn’t cheating. Unfortubately have to stop complaining about it. 2Way and Leading edge are bigger, faster and better. They aren’t cheating

The hysteria around 2009 vs 2010.

If your kid is “late 2010” as some in here are suggesting, they should be playing with the 2029 teams. In NY and CT sept 1 is the school “cutoff” but there are certainly kids who start late OR at this age, stay back.

It’s funny how ALL of Long Island 2028’s are 2010 birthdays. We all know full well that’s not the case. We noticed your rosters weren’t the same at the WS too. Wipe the tears.

https://www.usalacrosse.com/sites/default/files/documents/Games/USAL-AgeGroupChart-23-24.pdf

Please copy and paste the link and educate yourself. You proved everyone’s point and look like an absolute fool.

There is a reason the rules changed. An early 2009 is literally a year older than most of my son’s team. And a year and half older than at least 4 kids. You people are so ignorant it’s pathetic.

And please spare me the “next year it won’t matter” nonsense. We all know that. But it’s not next year you genius.

100% correct

Take the average age in years and months of every single Long Island team and compare them to the average age in years and months of 2way and eclipse (and 3DNe, leading edge, hawks, crabs, red hots, all the mad dog nonsense, etc, etc, etc) and you will discover this 100% undeniable and accurate fact.
The Long Island teams have an average age in years and months about 8 months younger. If you don’t think that this average age through a whole roster puts Long Island teams at an inherit disadvantage, you have not been paying attention to your own sons growth and strength and speed progression through puberty
All good though. I prefer my son to play against tougher competition. Just gonna make him better as a young high school student playing against older kids. But seriously people, wake up!

Birth year or bust

If it makes no difference then why shouldn’t we disclose the players birthdates on the rosters. Be proud of your holdback - but don’t say it doesn’t make a difference later bs . All you holdbacks wouldn’t agree to that would you…….

Facts. The chart doesn’t lie. 2Way parent proving both their ignorance and the fact that their team is “old af” (that’s how the kids put it not me). But if little Johnny needs to feel good about himself with some wins before going to private school…2Way and LE are there to help build morale in older kids who need a lil boost before HS.

The school cutoff is December 1 in NY so you are absolutely wrong.

That’s exactly why I posted the link to the chart.
Pretty sad that they actually believe they are playing against fair completion when they play Long Island teams. That 2way parent won’t come back on here and say a word.

Again, I’m all for it because I want my son to play against the best competition. Makes him have to play hard.

I’m back on here. The chart says sept 1, which is what I said. I also said we have a few kids who are older. I also said the majority of our team played in the World Series this past summer so by every definition they are on age. Those are the facts. I can’t speak to leading edge, I know zero about them.

Here’s the facts none of you have addressed. If 2 way is only better because we are older why were we in the World Series championship game? In fact, why was it 2 CT teams (hat tip to Express North who won it all) in the championship if LI teams are so much better on-age.

Again, the facts don’t fit your narrative.

A few kids are older, now I need to know what your definition of a few is. 2way got in trouble at WS for having an older kid if I’m not mistaken. Hmm?
But you know what OK you guys got us this year but thank you for acknowledging your kids are way older.
I’m not here to battle who is better Long Island or some other state. I am appalled at the parents on the sidelines that act like their kids are not older than the kids that they are playing and believe they are elite. Some would be elite on age but they are 100% playing younger weaker kids. Facts.

If it’s true that express flies in an older Faceoff kid to beat venom what is the driving force for doing that? The coach is just really competitive? It hurts the brand in the bank if they lose? At what point is that not actually a team? Seems so extreme for youth lacrosse

Club lacrosse should be strictly aged based in the early years. But when kid is in 8th grade, he's preparing to play high school ball and compete against kids who are 3 grades above. So get over it. At same time, yes 2Way's top players are much older than avg LI players. And CT is notorious for having 19 year old seniors (and older PGs) playing high school lacrosse. But it is not 'illegal.' Tournaments should require teams to post the birthdays (no names) of each roster. It wouldn't level playing the field, but it'd be transparent and humble teams like 2Way. May also cause parents of 14 years olds to ask club directors why they keep playing down against 12 year olds, etc.

You’re just not getting it.
“For play occurring between September 01, 2023 - August 31, 2024” is the only reference of September 1st.
Nobody said Long Island teams are so much better. They aren’t. I was simply saying that based on the chart, which you should go read again so you understand it, the teams I listed would be playing in the 15u division and not the 14u division.
I’ll simplify it. If you went by the chart I posted, 95+% of Long Island teams would be 95+% eligible to play as a 14u team. The same can not be said for 2way. Which is why their current team competing this year may appear “head and shoulders” above everyone else.
Nobody is denying the talent level of your team, and express north for that matter.
I was simply referencing the comment made many posts back about how great they are.
This is getting old.
Good luck the rest of the year.

It’s true. Not only older but a grade higher

How do the sheep, I mean, Parents, feel about this?

Express isn't the only team with legit holdbacks. S2S has them as well!

91 Dad not happy his scholarship team lost.

No need to drag the mambas into this mess. I think the previous poster was merely saying express had to cheat to have any chance at winning. Which they did by flying in a 2027 from California.

Ahhh that explains why they seem better this year

S2s mamba is definitely improved and well coached , small numbers but kids can play ,

The kid from 2way who plays for red hots is 15. He’s been playing down for years. Stop lying about it everyone knows.

4 come to mind

-------


Never understood this - posters get combative and defensive. Almost obnoxious. But then think they make it OK when they sign "Good luck the rest of the year" or "Have a great fall season".... so weird

This guy conveniently forgot that 2Way cheated at the World Series.

What’s so hard to understand? Not like I’m wishing that they have a miserable year with their team or have their child not grow as a player. It’s called being an adult and being genuine.

2way played kids who were 7th grade when they were in 6th grade because”they would reclass in 8th.”

Complete clown show organization for this.

I don’t get the big deal. 2Way has been caught on more than 1 occasion breaking the rules (the 7th grade who will reclass in 8th from 2 years ago), the LWSC (unrostered player(s), questionable 100 mile radius rule for another player). It’s just sort of their “brand.”

Head of legacy finally acknowledging they are not in same class as 91 and express
They are mid

Absolutely. Reclassing is not against the rules. It will be for 2029 and below if the kid is outside the age parameter. But saying that you’re GONNA reclass at some point in the future, but you’re playing down a grade in the meantime— that is against the rules and it is cheating. Anyone who gets caught doing that should get bounced. And the program director should pay a price.

Express does not have any holdbacks on the roster. It may look like it with the big middie that is pretty good and defensemen that they have, but i do not believe that they have ANYBODY that is over the cutoff

I personally know 1 that’s 14 already, which on Long Island is a holdback, so try again

It’s all cheating. People today just have no moral compass.

You are either:
A) A parent of a kid who didn’t get enough playing time on legacy so they left but still aren’t happy. Very likely.
B) A parent of a kid who tried out for legacy but didn’t make it or got cut in the past. Likely.
C) A parent of a kid on a club that is “mid”. ‘Maybe S2S, rush, igloo, or rebels. Not too likely.
C) A parent of a kid on venom or express with no affiliation at all in the past with legacy. This is the most far fetched. Unlikely and the most sad if it’s the case.
So fess up and divulge the motivation please. Nobody will know who you are and therefore nobody will know how pathetic you are.

With rebels kids leaving for 91,express, true, btb and probably more than I know do they still have a Hydra/Black team, because they’ve been absent from every tournament this fall, from what I heard they backed out of tristar because 3 of their age eligible kids were playing with the 29 team instead?

Express looking pretty mid too. 0-3
Where was their grand new fogo??

Not on the roster true. They just fly in a kid a grade above to play

A) if they don’t have a team, how can they back out of something because of kids that are on a team that doesn’t exist?
B) you know so much you should ask your source
C) you are purposely spouting half truths to make a point that you want delivered subtly
D) you know the answer, see C

Defensive parents dont like it because the offense has the ball all the time. Offense likes it because they have the ball. FOGO who got replaced, probably doesnt like it but get to work!

I don’t care what tournaments they do or don’t do. Does Rebels have a 2028 Hydra team or not?

He was telling everyone at Red Hots Camp he’s 15. Several others as well. Red Hots is an Instagram Fantasy Camp for 14-15 year old kids.

Red Hots is hold back U! Several boys are 15 already! I get it's not technically breaking the rules, but what I would like to see is those boys and their parents play on age for a couple of tournaments and see how they fair.

They would be terrible

Instagram Fantasy Camp. That is gold.

They like to blatantly cheat? It is 100% fact the kid is in 9th grade, a 2027.

Is 3D NE that good that they beat up Venom and Chucks?

It’s not even funny how old they look compared to on age 2028’s. player authenticate is a complete joke

Wow if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.....for those parents who are new to this game ...91 has players from all over the country playing on their "long island teams " ....for all age groups . Those are facts ...if you don't believe that just go and see how they have older " committed players" from out of state . Their 2025, 2026 and even 2027 have at least one player and most times much more than that that come from out of state and throw a 91 long island jersey on. Stop with the nonsense if you're clueless as to what your own club is doing ....youre embarrassing yourself

Losing by one is not getting beat up.

3D is good and were missing players. I wouldn’t say beat up both games were very good. If anything comes from this weekend, any team can win.

And to address the 91 hater above. Agree some of the older teams do have out of state and holdback players but the 28 team are all on age (after 9/1/2009) and from Long Island.

Out of state is fine, reclass is fine, kid a GRADE older is not fine

All 8 teams in that NAL bracket could have won- very good tournament. Bunch of teams were missing players including 91. Express game and final could have gone either way

And to address the 91 groupie ....... It's just a matter of time until the 28 team brings in players from out of state if they don't start winning!

Winning is everything! It’s not about development or making kids better people! Win at all costs, especially at a 14 year olds expense. Great job coaches

3D dad here....

3DNE vs. Express was a tight game, one goal difference until the end. very entertaining. Expected Express to be a little better, have some definite studs on offense, big middle with strong left-handed shot. Very physical play, both teams matched up really well.

3D will go undeafeted this weekend

Maybe they should’ve brought more guys.

Who did Rebels lax off to get that schedule? LMAO

is that their rep? just know that every year those kids seem to bring physical play, technically sound. if we played 10 times they'd probably split them down the middle.

2way also played a kid from PA with a summer 2009 birthday at the World Series.

If they Cheat a bit more and they might actually win something.

Very tough schedule. I think it benefits them. You get better playing tough teams instead of weaker teams. They are in the same boat as Surge. To good for A teams and not good enough for AA teams. I never understood the issue with playing holdbacks/older kids. Let your kids play them, it will only make them better and get ready for high school. Who cares about a championship t-shirt or headband. Travel lacrosse is to train and get better and play tougher competition, not wil championships that Mommy and Daddy can post on social media.

someone wrote something awfully similar on the 2029 board.....

Nah

Cheerleading for holdbacks belongs on the Maryland thread not LI thread regardless of grade thread

Rebels are back!!! Big day tomorrow.

Some day…0-3

Cmon do you really believe that was a rebel parent?

Why do you care?

More
Like surge is back baby !! Letssss goooo

Have a go at that schedule

Surge is back. lol Regardless of helmets we all that wasn’t surge. Nice try

surge's starting goalie couldn't make it so venom goalie played. and 3 poles couldn't play which left surge with 3 poles so 2 venom poles played. That's it

It was friends playing together to fill needed spots

Surge does not use Venom players, except for when they use them, nothing to see here.

Guess they couldn't play their backup?

they'd prefer not to

Why respond to this? 91 is a program- it’s not illegal for kids to play on both teams. It benefits those kids playing and no need for them to apologize to botc! Is anyone looking out for them? Yes some kids on surge played less- stinks but maybe just maybe they work harder to get better.

91 sounds like the Chucks

So what you’re saying is win at any costs ?!? To get that trophy and or medal or t shirt lmao

They tried out and made a team in August, probably paying the same amount as your little snake. Maybe more since we know there’s no tuition deals for B teams. So, if not at their own team’s tournament, where are they supposed to work harder and get better? Wasnt Venom the team that ended their season last year? Was that to work harder and get better too?

Win at all costs.

Getting the invite to play with Surge is the first sign of playing with Surge full time in the spring. Good group of kids. Coaches are clueless.

There was no playoffs

Makes sense if you're not getting good PT on venom. Coaches are the hills varsity coach and the northport def coach.

You are right on point.

What LI teams are going to Club Nationals this year in Florida?

Absolutely right on point for sure.

If I was a Surge parent I would not be happy with this happening. I did see Surge playing on Saturday - no Venom helmets that I saw - so who knows what is actually true. If there were Venom kids playing this would be doubly odd. I mean the only people that should care are the Surge parents/kids and no point in changing helmets - they are all going to know right away!

i am a surge parent and we had 3 poles last saturday. the parents of those 3 poles were happy to have the help and the boys that played with surge used to be teammates with each other.

Ask any kid that plays for a different team than their own just to help out and they will tell you how much fun they have.

I’m sure the Venom kids had fun, what about the Surge kids that were on the bench watching Venom kids take their playing time?

Who cares if Venom players play with Surge, part of the sane program, all friends.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU PLAY MORE THAN YOU DO ON YOUR OWN TEAM

The only surge player it affected was the back up goalie

More importantly surge, rebels, Calvary, be the best
Should have made a bracket

Would have been better competition for ALL

Surge sat their own goalie for the Venom goalie? That’s cold.

Glad surge won. They deserve it. Good people good coaches. Nobody sat out for other players.

Signed
Venom Parent

Surge would have went 0-3 and wouldn’t be a my lacrosse tournament if 91 team doesn’t get an easy bracket.

Can we open a new thread "SURGE: King of the MLT Tourneys"

Don’t detest, these are good kids. They don’t need your ridicule. Focus on your team and son. This team is good and will attract the better kids who aren’t getting enough playing time on their current team.

You are talking about 13 yr old kids.

Seriously I don’t get the detest towards surge. Who is threatened by them and why??

So when it’s other kids it’s ok. You 91 parents need help it should e wrong for all kids.

Isn’t that the coach who screams at the players and calls them losers every tournament? Good kids need better

Everyone is free to go anywhere. I prefer a coach who is invested, cares and is expert. Not for everyone or every kid though def agree

Here is the problem with travel sports, parents truly believe that this is OK. If a coach is acting like that to 13yo’s, he is Not invested, doesn’t NOT care and definitely is NOT an expert, he’s a laxer.
I have no skin is this game, but I know for sure that, if a teacher acted like that to your kid in the classroom, you would be looking to have them fired in a minute, but why is it acceptable on a sports field. Because you are chasing a “lax scholarship”.
News flash, there are 12.6 of them per D1 team, which need to get divided up amongst 40-50 players, so if you really think the mental abuse is worth it, have at it. And btw, where is that team in the new national rankings. Hmmmm.

So you do not think that there is any life lesson to be learned from a tough coach like that? Everything in life isn’t so sweet- I get in 2023 that type of behavior isn’t as well accepted but many of us learned a lot from similar growing up. Every kid will not thrive in that environment but personally I think it builds character for the right kid. And I totally see the other side too so no need to berate my opinion

Don't play Madlax then. "Losers" "[Censored]' and worse on the regular.

Chucks only lost by 1. Venom by 4

Out of left field.

Hi-curious to see recommendations (if any are worth sharing) for summer lax camps? I’ve seen a few advertised (PLL overnight in PA, St. Anthony’s, Powell brothers on LI). Looking for defensive camps. Son was interested in checking some out. Thanks in advance.

Club Nationals is next week - didn't see many Long Island teams entered.

Any feedback on this LILJ College Bound program? It seems odd with such a wide variety of age groups.

My son participated in LILJ College Bound last night. They mixed the grades together so there were times 8th graders going up against 6th graders in 1v1, 2v2, etc. drills. Good for the 6th graders as they get experience vs. bigger, stronger players. Not sure how much 8th graders benefit by going up against kids 2 years younger. Although my son said the 6th graders were mostly holding their own.

Anything run by LILJ is a complete money grab. If you want to spend a [Censored] load of money so your kid can get a shout out on instagram then go for it. The All Long Island Games are even worse. Hey you have been selected……now give us money for the uniform and the games you have to play in. What a joke

Thanks for the information.

All of the above may be true. I would argue that their events are fun, good experience for the kids playing w others/meeting some coaches, and they promote well on social media which the kids enjoy. Every “showcase” is not equal but that doesn’t mean the less competitive ones [Censored]. If you’re looking for top competition this isn’t it. If you’re looking for recruiting you need to wait 2 years

Question- Just relocated back to LI and have 2 boys. One in 8th and one in 6th. They have been playing lacrosse since kindergarten. Our area in Virginia had town teams but there was not much of a club/travel scene at least locally. I have been told by coworkers that Team 91 and Express are the main clubs. I will most likely have them tryout but would like some other options. I know it will depend on what level they are at compared to the others but would love some recommendations for programs w quality training and reasonable cost. Currently renting but will most likely settle in the Western Suffolk area where family mostly is. Any help would be great. Thanks in advance. I was told that this site could help but also to be weary of the sources.

Welcome back. And as much as I love this site and all the people and posts on it I would definitely be wary of everything that’s said in here because it can be quite toxic. So take everything with a grain of salt including mine as well.

The lax club scene is very vibrant so there are plenty of choices. It really depends on what the lax goals are. If the goal is to play high d1/d3 and play in the best tournaments against the best competition then express and 91 will be your best route. But keep in mind that playing time and making the top team out of their multiple teams is not guaranteed and playing time and starting are also not guaranteed. Long story short you have to be very realistic and honest about your kids ability and goals. Could you get recruited high d1 from the other clubs? Sure but the proven track record is with those top 2 clubs. (Disclaimer, my kids did not play BF or either)

If any recruitment is the goal (not top high d1) then it doesn’t matter what club you play for. I’d having fun and making friends is your goal then it doesn’t matter what club you play for. I could go into the nuances of each club but anything j say from here on out is purely opinion so you will have to get a sense yourself

There is obviously a ton more that factors in so Sorry to make it simplistic but to me, it all depends what your lax goals are. Unfortunately you don’t have a lot of time to figure this out given your kids ages (6th grader has more time) as the 8th grader doesn’t have the luxury of club hopping. The last thing I will say is enjoy the time. Don’t get caught up in the toxicity of the club scene because it can be quite rewarding. And in the end it all ends up being OK because lax is finite. It ends somewhere in high school or college. Enjoy

I would suggest contacting a few different clubs and see what options are available. Certain clubs don’t add mid-year unless the player is a impactful type addition. Others have an open door policy. Good luck

Teams worth reaching out to now to find a spot 2028
Great South Bay
Rush (roadrunners)
Rebels
True Long Island

You can get him a spot for the summer then come July is when all the tryouts happen

If you are looking for him to play at the aa level next season this is the list of teams that play in aa tournaments

91 Surge
91 Venom
BTB
Express Chucks
Igloo Northmen
Legacy LumberJax
Rebels Black
Rush Adrenaline
Shore 2 Shore Mamba

NE Select is from Long Island

Everyone wants to talk about money grab. Travel to FL in December $$. National teams, camps – express camp, PLL, camp, Apex, Red Hots camp, savage. All of the above are money grabs. Showcases are mostly money grabs. Obviously the older the kid is the more value there is. But it’s good for the kids to experience all of these things also. Certainly not necessary, but definitely can’t hurt. Let people spend their money the way they want.
At the end of the day you have to pay to play anyway you slice it whether you think that’s ugly or not it is the TRUTH!

This team is a total money grab - playing in 2 tournaments for nearly 2K, but like you said, people spend their money the want they want.

Complete joke and money grab.

McDonalds is a money grab, Starbucks huge money grab, Microsoft money grab and a monopoly. What the heck are you all talking about money grab. You dont have to do business with anyone ever anytime so stop calling it a money grab. My son loves to play and spending New Years in Florida with family and friends is more like a vacation though vacation = tourism = Money grab. 2k for 2 tournaments and the roster is full. Sounds more like TZ has set the market rate........good to see NES is back making a run though. We thought they were done after their original mission to build a team to beat Madlax at Club Nationals in 2021 failed in OT,

Beat it, Cabell. Don’t you have a game to get tossed from this weekend?

Who cares about ML? Game over for CM. Hawks and everyone has surpassed them

If you like spending thousands of dollars to watch your kid play a few games of lacrosse against kids 1-2 years older than him then Club Nationals in FL is where you want to go!

Take a look at the division Madlax placed themselves in at Club Nationals. Complete cupcakes. Guess u need to win some games to try to attract players from the Fall meltdown where 11 of 19 players left for greener pastures.

I take it you aren’t going.

detest to break it to you but it’s going to be that way for every tournament from here on out. Either hold back your kid or deal with it. It’s not as big of a difference once the boys get to high school.

11 of 19? All to NL?

TZ didn’t need to build another team to beat Madlax, his Taz team has smacked up Madlax many times.

9 went to DC Express, 2 went to NL

Ouch!Is this a bit of a false headline though in that Madlax runs their season from Jan-Jan so did these kids leave or did they get cut? Also have seen this repeatedly in DMV, come 9th grade the clubs realign around HS teams. ML- Landon, DCE- Bullis, NL- St Johns, Crabs- Calvert Hall, etc. Is that what happened here as well?

Not in this case. Most of the best players left Madlax and went to DC Express. Two other good players went to NL. DC Express doesn’t start till 8th grade, so there’s always some attrition— but this was a coup. DCE is still putting the pieces together, they had 10-11 kids from a mediocre BLC team to work with, but they are already pretty decent. Beat Next Level and 3D Georgia in the fall. Should be very good come summer 2024. Madlax flying in kids from all over the country to try to compete in 2028. Will be a real struggle. Cabell just couldn’t get out of the way, he’s a narcissistic maniac.

Ah now we start seeing the truth with your narrative woven in.
DCE is a new team this year so they recruited hard and severak kids would have had their eye on moving as soon as they could. How is that a coup? How many are on scholarship?
Who is coach of DCE and what HS is he at? What HS are the kids moving from? Who were the core 4 that the others followed because they didn't want to be left holding the bag?
Do you consider yourself one of the mediocre BLC kids that is exited to have new talent come in and push you to the bench, one of the kids that followed the others as filler or got cut by Cab and youre grinding that axe on a message board.

Wrong Forum

DCE did not recruit. The kids left en masse, as a group. It was a coup. Plain and simple.
Coaches are Ray Megill, Bobby Horsey, and CJ Carpenter. Megill owns DCE, played at Maryland and professionally. As did Horsey. Carpenter played at Duke. They’ll be fine.
Cabell lost badly at 2028 as he also did most recently at 2024 and 2026. Cabell has literally never cut a kid from the 2028 team. Not once. He’ll take any player and his parents’ money.

Yes, but Cabell bashing is entertaining whether you’re in NY or in MD. Universally enjoyable.

And universally disliked. You Ungrateful Quitters!

I actually like him quite a bit. Entertaining guy to hang out with. Always honest with us and we went knowing about the old article about ungrateful quitters. Of course, I am no person to judge anyone on past transgressions, just how they interacted with me and mine. With that in mind we had a few awesome and fun years at Madax.

Hi Cab!

What do you mean he lost at 24? Im pretty sure he never lost a game, a tournament or anything on the field to the teams those kids left for. He reloaded when they left then beat them every time they played but dont ever let facts get in the way of your agenda.

Wrong Forum!! No one here cares about Madlax and their 2028-15 yr old players

You’re kidding me, right? He lost their best 4-5 players, including the top ranked 2024 player in the nation, Ryan Duenkel. And they left because Cabell was the coach. No other reason. Zippo. Most went to Next Level, who is ranked 9th in the nation. Madlax? 36th. They were top 2-3 before he ran those kids off in order to keep his two sons on the field.

How is it the wrong forum? I don’t care about ML either but they are talking about 28s.

Next Level with and with out Deunkel et al never beat Madlax. And other than Ryan thats not true that it was the top players by any means. The offense ran through KM and AP anyway and continued to with out issue. St Johns kids moved to be with St Johns coach plus a little Cab but all specialist positions at ML were better and CM outcoached NL…….and those players also moved to align with their coach’s but again never ever beat CB and ML team they left. For the years it mattered ML was always ranked above NL. Not disagreeing he is a lot to handle but stop with the BS title. See you in 6 months and ML will be whipping up on your DCE Coup de [Censored].

You are delusional. ML 28 is a shell of its former self. If ML wins more than 2 games in HOCO it will be a major accomplishment. ML lost its best defender both of its best LSMs most of their starting midfielders and most of their attack. Maybe the new goalie is an improvement (time will tell). My prediction is that ML 28 is out of the top 50 by the end of the summer.

The record will show that Cab wrecked that team. Which is too bad because the families were friendly and the kids were friends. The forfiet to the red hots was too much for most people- the team’s fate was sealed at that point. Cab will continue to drive more players away. Look for more defections by the summer. Multiple ML players are already playing for MOJO which will make leaving for NL that much easier.

If their HOCO season is as bad as I think it will be their might not be a ML 28 this summer. The better true players did not blow up true Chesapeake to lose game after game.

This is a NY and CT board. No one cares about Madlax and their dysfunctional team. No one here respected them anyway, running 15 yr old 8th graders out there to play our 13 yr olds.

I love it when one person speaks for everyone.

Seriously take it to the Maryland board.

I loved the more simple times when we just made fun of the rebel and turtle moms.

LOL

They were supposed to be the first Town team to win the WSYL. How’d that work out?

Will 91 Venom start flying in Texas kids this spring or will they wait another year?

Who knows but we all know express has already started using fly-ins who aren’t even in the grade.

Who are you referring to? The Turtles are club team? Its too bad they did not keep that group together and add pieces bc those kids are now scattered all over top teams and starting.

Where are these kids starting ?

Add pieces?
Nobody ever wanted to join that dumpster fire.

True story

Redhots giving out championship rings 🤣 rotflmao
It’s bad enough giving out rings but giving out rings to 15year olds that beat up on 13 year olds! Only in lacrosse!!!

National teams are a joke. Revolving rosters, most teams can’t get their best players to play for them. Money grab.

These kids are gonna look back at this when they’re juniors and seniors in high school and wonder with were they thinking??!! Cringeworthy.

All clubs are money grabs

Red Hots aren’t a team and a total joke. Insta money grab. National teams should be relegated to their own tournaments. USA Lacrosse is becoming a joke. As a governing body of a a youth sport they have zero control and the board members we all pay should be ashamed

I would add to your comment that the National teams should have their own rankings. Ridiculous that you rank national teams with local clubs when kids play on both at the same time.

The rosters are not set on National teams either. I agree they should not be ranked with club teams.

While many boys play on multiple clubs, the national teams also allow players who live in non hotbed areas to play on competitive teams. I personally think we take the rankings too seriously.

Thank you for the breath of fresh air in an otherwise nauseating topic.

US Club Lax who runs the rankings has the power to separate the two, Club vs National. I would expect they will draw a line in the sand soon based on the feedback folks are providing. Nothing wrong with National teams, but they need their own bucket.

Red Hots Dad

The 91 and Express dads sweating it out on BOC over their son's team not being in the top 10!!! Don't worry your son will be replaced by a reclass or holdback very shortly!

Agree, holdbacks are coming, nobody is safe in their current position. Express is infamous for bringing players down as the summer rolls. Last year at the Gauntlet in CT the 27s were an entirely new squad. Same thing will happen to the 28s. Express is going to have 76 players in the two team player pool!

Red hots are cheating at the circuit with how many “exceptions” to the age rule they have. The circuit knows. And doesn’t care.

What a joke of a group of adults running that circus.

Every '28 Circuit team is permitted to have 3 exceptions. '29 two, '30 one, '31 zero. The exceptions phase out each year.

What's the definition of a National team? Kids who don't live in the same city? The same state? Should it be the 100 mile radius like WS? How many fly ins are permitted? WCS is a national team but isn't considered one. How many Sweetlax FL players actually live in FL. It's close to zero at the older ages.

I don't disagree with your/others wishes but wonder how this gets policed

You do realize that lacrosse isn’t as popular in other regions, right? National teams allow these athletes to compete from areas that don't have 10 travel teams in one county. The best require video or other recommendations and you usually don't hear about them until they are beating up on your branded team.

I'd up the minimum number of games played needed to qualify for USCL rankings. Most true teams play 25-30 games a year. The national teams do not because their players are playing on their primary teams.

Trying to police the actual rosters will be difficult. Raising the min games to qualify is relatively easy way to weed out the national all-star teams. Probably wouldn't help us this time of year because the National teams play mostly in the offseason winter months, but come spring and summer they would fall out.

I see Hawks, Next Level, and 3D NE kids on the Red Hots. I heard a Venom kid was playing with them in SandStorm. Hots is not just a group of kids from non-hotbead areas. C'mon.

I have no problem with the Hots, but lets not mischaracterize what they are about.

The Hots are simply a team of assassins. Flat out. Holdback assassins.

Red Hots are Holdback U!

2024 dad here, yep, checking out the boards but here is something I have learned along the way. The guy that just posted the above, his kid isnt any good but he really wants to live the lax dream. Holdbacks only matter to those that think they are where they are not. Anyone playing at the level that goes mid to high D1 will never mention holdback because their kid is good enough whether they are held back or not. So fella with the Hots are holdbacks, it doesnt matter. Focus on the messaging and Help Out The Seals…..extra credit for anyone that knows that reference is.

Has already started at 91 Venom, just reclassed their goalie from 27 down to 28. And he was good at 27. Hypocrites.

And because US Club Lax started with 28’s and younger with age verification the only group that is affected is the 28’s. Someone can reclass to be a 28 but most 28’s can’t reclass to 29. So Venom goalie may be screwed because of that reclass and have to leave the team.

Red Hots just put out the bat signal to build a roster to play in Maryland's HOCO league. Wow.

It’s doesn’t really impact the 28s as much as one would think. It only lasts a year or so and once you hit high school the June 1 date is no longer valid at the club level. So this spring and next those younger 28s will have to [Censored] it up. I’m pretty sure the other venom goalie went to express 28, so although he left because of a reclass, he is still in a good spot.

No, 2028 not impacted by the new rules. Only 2029 and below.

It does include 28s. They are subject to the 6/1/2009 date. Once they hit u14 or high school it becomes void.

28’s are impacted because they can’t reclass but 27’s can reclass into 28! 28’s got screwed.

I’n not saying they are all
I’m not saying they are all made up of non hotbed area kids, but if you are still sitting around worrying about holdbacks in 8th grade then your son will struggle in high school.

Express will look like a different team come next season. Couple reclasses and a few top players from other teams coming over. Don’t get comfortable. Ya heard it hear first!

Lax moms are going to have to kick it up in high gear! Network ladies! Do whatever it takes to get Johnny playing time!! Maybe throw more money at the problem!! Bring you knives and ask for help when you need one pulled out of yours lol

The college live series website states that they will be selecting eighth graders as All-Star rising type players to be featured at halftime. Who’s doing the picking? Are these the preordained kids that have connections through parents and coaches, or maybe parents that are coaches?
Just curious

You sound very sensitive

Whatever it takes! LOL

Of course, 91 coaches already making calls for their kids. When is the last time 91 cut a coaches kid? Never!

Reclasses/holdbacks are everywhere including LI- just not the norm for the 2028 class yet. Who cares though? If your kid can't hold his own with a kid who is 1 year older at this point, you have bigger problems.

A 1/3 of the kids on Venom will be from outstate in the next year or two if they keep on dropping in the rankings. Just look at the older 91 teams!

If you actually read the post with any real thoughtfulness, you’d have found no issue from the poster as it relates to holdbacks. What you would have picked up is a reference to the LI/91 guys saying they don’t holdback, it’s a MD thing. Yet here we are, they’re holding back at the most important position. Hence, the hypocrite moniker.

Cheaters. Wonder how these parents show their faces after holding their kids back.

Remind me again bow this is cheating in grade based tournaments? Maybe the guy that points out everyone’s reading comprehension problems and uses words like ‘hence’ can put down the dictionary and explain what the issue is? It’s been discussed to death that Coaches want the best kids in the grade, regardless of how close to the cutoff they were born. Why is this still a topic? I guess your son is still on the wrong side of puberty. Good luck with that.

Like express bringing in a 2027 from California? Out of state players for most higher profile clubs is nothing new. Over the years Legacy has had their fair share and same with express. 2way, 3D, hawks, sweet lax etc all draw kids from different parts of the country.

If he was good on 2027, then why would he reclass to be on the 2028 Venom.

So the Venom goalie who was cut could go to Express and dominate

The kid he was stuck behind is a prodigy. I would reclass my kid too if he was behind that.

It will all even out eventually. But for now your 15-year-old playing against 13-year-olds is an advantage hold back dad.

Agreed. But 91 in particular has taken it to a new level. There older teams have rosters that have over 70 percent of out of state players.

I never would have thought I was living rent free in someone’s head. And no, I do not use a dictionary. I’m just literate, “hence” your misinterpretation. I’ll try my best to not be condescending or insulting, despite your constant need to bash people’s kids with remarks on puberty, development, and skill.

The issue is it is unfair for older kids to play against younger kids, specifically from 10-14 years of age. Simple as that. I’m still not sure how one can not comprehend that. It is why parents and kids liked the concept of the World Series. It is why there has been a rule change to age based lacrosse at the youth level. Nobody is doubting that college coaches could care less about age. They want the biggest and best players. Same with top high schools. But this is an 8th grade forum. And it was once a 7th grade forum. And before that, it was a 6th grade forum. And you surely get my point.

It is talked about because the majority of people do not agree with holding kids back. It’s been beaten to death for sure. The people who do it, see the value. Some people who are against it see it as cheating as in it is providing an unfair advantage. Technically it isn’t cheating if one defines cheating as breaking the rules. But in the mind of an anti holdback parent, it is taking away from the fairness of the game. Truth be told, I’m actually ok with my son playing against older kids. It’s certainly better for his development, provides a greater challenge, and will mirror the experience he will have in high school. That doesn’t mean I agree with it nor does it mean I should pretend it does not affect some more than others

With all that said, how does one not acknowledge what it’s like to be in the shoes of an outspoken anti-holdback parent or kid? You instill the necessary tools to be a solid athlete. From work ethic to nutrition to training to learning the intricacies of the game. Then they show up ready to roll one weekend in June only to be physically manhandled by kids who are stronger and faster simply because they are older. That’s the frustration and that’s the issue. I’m sure that most kids and parents aren’t crying about it on the car ride home. But who are you to take away their voice and right to call a spade a spade?

Or he could switch teams and graduate on time. Not repeat the same curriculum another year!!

Short king.

you stop being grounded, no room for that here!

what kid is like yes sign me up for more school years!!
13-14 year olds should not be making these life decisions, we all know they are not but parents will tell you johnny wants it not me lololol

There is nothing like the gift of time. I think most of us would love to go back and have an extra year of high school. Grades would be better, mentally and physically more mature and have the confidence to be successful. Instead of cursing the holdback, one should embrace it. It’s a great opportunity for a number of kids who are struggling not only physically but academically. Each situation is different, so dont be so hard and dont be quick to judge. - Holdback Parent

You must have been dropped on your head.

A “prodigy”? Give me a break pal. He’s good goalie. Leave it at that. They don’t play for the same high school. The 27 goalie re classed because he’s tiny and wasn’t as good. And with his dad as a coach of the 27 team it was getting awkward. But calling the other goalie a “prodigy” is just silly.

If you tried to get me to repeat a grade in school you would’ve had a fight on your hands and I loved those years.

Tell me your kid plays goalie without telling me your kid plays goalie.

Tell me your a mom without telling me you’re a mom

You must be the goalies dad. No other person would use the word prodigy unless it was his own son.

USA lacrosse membership renewal requires age verification

That’s a joke right?!!! Nobody is on the field checking

Serious question, do the 2028 Rebels team still exist? I feel like they change their name every year.

I think you answered your own question. If they changed their name they must exist right?

Didn’t they used to have a Rebels AA and B team, as well as a Rebels East team? I do not remember what any of the team names were and certainly don’t know now as you rarely ever see them at tournaments. Maybe someone can enlighten us.

The Rebels will be just fine! The last of the TOXIC Turtle parents left this year.

The TOXIC Turtle parent is till there. And more TOXIC than ever.

Wait now you are blaming turtle parents for the reputation of the rebels?? Why if these 2 teams are so irrelevant and people still obsessed with them?

A simple website search could answer that
But we all know that’s not why you are asking

Mind reader.