BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2015 Fall 2011/Spring 2012

I agree that YJ 2015 is a very good team. Having said that , the times they are a changing. Parents are losing faith in a rigid "win at all cost" program that disparages the players who can't produce. And by the way, How much money is there in running 3 or 4 teams per age group???? If it is really about the kids then why are parents secretly trying to get out of YJ without being blackballed by the YJ leadership?

True, though, that it would be great for LI Lax if there were local tournaments attended by the local clubs. Refresh my memory, what happened with the Elite tournament? Why was it not well attended?

How do you make this statement? Is there any validity to it. State some facts??

The Elite Showcase was well attended on the coaching side (approximately 25 institutions represented) and the team count (approximately 75-80 teams) was below the total capacity by a slight amount. The Yellow Jackets teams accounted for about 25 of the total teams.

The Long Island teams (non-Yellow Jackets) that attended included these : Long Island Raiders, Long Island Express, Smithtown, Team 91, Huntington, Nor'Easter, Hauppauge, Premier, Farmingdale, and Long Island Pride. Even with these clubs, the number of attending teams were limited.

Our point is that teams like the Long Island Liberty and Top Guns to name two just chose not to attend. Our question is why would these franchises not attend this showcase opportunity? When BOTC made personal calls, we were told that the money was only helping the Yellow Jackets program, the attending coaches were not of interest, the tournament was "too expensive", and that the clubs had other plans.

The fact remains that the off-Island representation at our own home town recruiting event was stronger than the local support. For a full listing of the teams involved, access the following link : Long Island Elite Showcase Schedule (PDF Format)

Who runs the Elite Showcase?

Agreed. Nothing pisses off the parents more than driving through traffic, paying tolls and travel expenses, and then finding out you're playing teams from LI.

thats why the numbers are down

The Elite Showcase was well attended on the coaching side (approximately 25 institutions represented) and the team count (approximately 75-80 teams) was below the total capacity by a slight amount. The Yellow Jackets teams accounted for about 25 of the total teams.

The Long Island teams (non-Yellow Jackets) that attended included these : Long Island Raiders, Long Island Express, Smithtown, Team 91, Huntington, Nor'Easter, Hauppauge, Premier, Farmingdale, and Long Island Pride. Even with these clubs, the number of attending teams were limited.

Our point is that teams like the Long Island Liberty and Top Guns to name two just chose not to attend. Our question is why would these franchises not attend this showcase opportunity? When BOTC made personal calls, we were told that the money was only helping the Yellow Jackets program, the attending coaches were not of interest, the tournament was "too expensive", and that the clubs had other plans.

The fact remains that the off-Island representation at our own home town recruiting event was stronger than the local support. For a full listing of the teams involved, access the following link : Long Island Elite Showcase Schedule (PDF Format)

I see they had 75-80 teams in the tourney. The Numbers were not down very much at all. That tourney has never been that big. Maybe 90 at the most. What are you talking about? They have a big draw from Ct. They obviously dont need the LI teams to play.

I'll tell you what I heard. I did not experience this firsthand so consider it hearsay, but those who told me believed it. The feeling is that Carol Rose manipulates the schedules to favor YJ. If YJ is initially scheduled to play a tougher, more competitive team, then perhaps there is a schedule change so that team plays consecutive games so they don't reach the YJ teams fresh.

Is it true? I have no idea. But apparently the belief alone could be enough to keep clubs from the Elite tournament.

<now settling back to watch the fireworks>

The schedule file is attached. While BOTC has heard the "rumor", let's find the spot in the schedule whether the conspiracy theory holds. [BOTC has supplied the tools; we will leave it to the readers to undercover the "evidence". Quite frankly, the argument about "fixed" schedules just feels empty to us.]

At the end of the day, Powderfinger, we heard earlier that the complaint was that the 25-minute game format was a turn-off for some. Now, we are hearing that two back-to-back 25 minute games are being manipulated. Who knows? Maybe all of the conspiracy theories are correct. But, isn't being able to play two 25-minute "halves" with an inter-game break a reasonable request in the lacrosse world? Particularly for a showcase player?

The one point that is critical about your note is perception. The emotion is driven by perception. If BOTC could help smooth the ruffled-feathers, it would be worthwhile for the game. Clearly we are shining the light on the subject in an effort to bring about change - and if not change, at least enhance the dialogue.

I see they had 75-80 teams in the tourney. The Numbers were not down very much at all. That tourney has never been that big. Maybe 90 at the most. What are you talking about? They have a big draw from Ct. They obviously dont need the LI teams to play.

first off, I am not surprised that conn. teams go to the elite tourney, doesn't carol have her hand in the ct. chargers, and i'm sure there are connections to other teams up there through the chargers. Understanding that there is a cost to running this event, couldn't carol find a worthy charity to donate the money to, and maybe even include the other directors in the choosing of such a charity. then it would be a little difficult for the other clubs to justify not attending. that is if they really wanted the best teams from the island to play on the island, If it is just to showcase YJ against not as competitive teams and make money because she did all work than hey , she deserves it, she works very hard. but i don't know if that would work either. carol must be angry at shannon, and i don't know why danielle and carol don't see eye to eye. personally i th
Wink it would be fantastic to see all the li teams go at each other on the island, it could only help island lacrosse

first off, I am not surprised that conn. teams go to the elite tourney, doesn't carol have her hand in the ct. chargers, and i'm sure there are connections to other teams up there through the chargers.

Understanding that there is a cost to running this event, couldn't carol find a worthy charity to donate the money to, and maybe even include the other directors in the choosing of such a charity. then it would be a little difficult for the other clubs to justify not attending.

that is if they really wanted the best teams from the island to play on the island, If it is just to showcase YJ against not as competitive teams and make money because she did all work than hey , she deserves it, she works very hard.

... but i don't know if that would work either. carol must be angry at shannon, and i don't know why danielle and carol don't see eye to eye.

personally i think it would be fantastic to see all the li teams go at each other on the island, it could only help island lacrosse

IF you think these club owners want to go head to head with YJ
your crazy. They may talk a good game, but NONE of them have the National Recognition yet they YJ has. Will they maybe. It depends how hard they want to work. Only time will tell.

Maybe we can get directors of tourney to schedule longer games since that seams to be a legitimate complaint. May not be doable with a 1 day event with so many teams.

Instead of talking trash get your Club Owner to go KICK THEIR [lacrosse] on the field instead of avoiding them for NO REASON

From where did you get this information? Jeff Brameier is the Founder/Director of the Connnecticut Chargers lacrosse program. Please share the source of your information.

BOTC is missing this argument entirely.

Why does a Long Island lacrosse club like the Yellow Jackets that has the ability to attract a significant number of college coaches for their showcase need to turn over revenues to charity in order to attract other Long Island teams? The Yellow Jackets are sharing their recruiting contacts (colleges) by getting the coaches onto the Island. This is what completely baffles us here at BOTC.

The tournament cost is effectively multiple times cheaper than trying to get access to those same coaches off Long Island at another club's tournament. So, why does profit need to be turned over to charity for doing the work and then providing access to those coaches?

This is why BOTC comes off as a "Carol Rose" supporter when we are just trying to give a balanced view. Our guess is that the Yellow Jackets will play everyone and anyone that shows up. The results of any one showcase game will not determine the club's reputation, national standing, or recruitment of players.

Having spoken directly with Coach Rose on all of the Long Island relationships, we do not think that there is ill-will with Shannon Smith on any level, but there is a competitive aspect that does exist now for position in the marketplace. As for the Yellow Jackets/Liberty relationship, we can hand over heart say that principle participants maintain what can best be termed a cold relationship. Danielle and Carol were friends and teammates from years back - the genesis of the Liberty program is where the source of the rift can be found. Basically, the Liberty was not originally supposed to be based on Long Island.

We agree.

She tried that already lax for hope the same teams avoided YJ again.

Cage Sage - I have read many of your posts and you definitely come off as a Carol Rose/YJ supporter. That is very easy to see.

Carol was the first to the market with the YJ's and she built a great program, anyone who would say differently is full of it. She clearly has the numbers which is a huge advantage. However, she also has a win at all cost mentality.

You seem fairly new to the whole girl's lacrosse club scene and you seem a little naive. Why can't we all get along? You don't know history. Carol's own coaches are scared of her. They might not admit it publicly, but they are.

You claim she has no problem with Shannon starting the TG's - you are out of your mind. You have no idea what she has done behind the scenes to bad mouth Shannon and her father. She has made some pretty outlandish comments. If she treats her former players this way, how do you think she treats opposing team or clubs from LI.

It's not that other LI clubs don't want to play in their tournament because of talent of the YJ's or fear, it's because they don't want to help her financially.

The YJ's are the top program on LI right now. In a few years from now - maybe not.

Cage Sage - I have read many of your posts and you definitely come off as a Carol Rose/YJ supporter. That is very easy to see.

Carol was the first to the market with the YJ's and she built a great program, anyone who would say differently is full of it. She clearly has the numbers which is a huge advantage. However, she also has a win at all cost mentality.

You seem fairly new to the whole girl's lacrosse club scene and you seem a little naive. Why can't we all get along? You don't know history. Carol's own coaches are scared of her. They might not admit it publicly, but they are.

You claim she has no problem with Shannon starting the TG's - you are out of your mind. You have no idea what she has done behind the scenes to bad mouth Shannon and her father. She has made some pretty outlandish comments. If she treats her former players this way, how do you think she treats opposing team or clubs from LI.

It's not that other LI clubs don't want to play in their tournament because of talent of the YJ's or fear, it's because they don't want to help her financially.

The YJ's are the top program on LI right now. In a few years from now - maybe not.

As a current YJ coach the statement regarding the coaches being afraid of her is completly ridiculous!! Sad you had to make that up.

I have seen this firsthand on a number of occasions and it is absolutely NOT made up.

I totally agree with most of this post. I have herd of the Danielle ,Carol feud over liberty being started on the island, I don't see the problem with danielle starting a program here ,I didn't know Carol owned Long Island, I believe Carol played earlier for Manhassett than Danielle , and that there is a little jealousy over how well Danielle fared . I also can understand Carol could be upset over losing most Manhassett players to Danielle, Manhassett has been a lax powerhouse for decades , and what team would not want that talent pool to choose from. But why should Danielle give up her own players to Carol,I think it was well within her rights to start a program based where she coaches a varsity team. as far as getting college coaches go Danielle had a small tourney up at Manhassett where at the end of the day Syracuse , Fairfield and Stony Brook , all played each other,so obviously Danielle has no problem contacting D1 coaches and, I noticed that Carol Rose was also there.And personally , if I were Carol Rose I'd be pissed at Shannon a little bit too, I went to TG tryouts and there were a bunch of YJ defects there. That being said Shannon also has every right to start a program here too.

From the looks of coaching staff it has been one of the most consistant staffs around. Not much turnover from year to year. That says it all!

It all depends on how the owners directors went about starting their own clubs. I have heard of directors who were coaches /directers for one club who had access to that clubs e-mail lists etc. and took these lists to use for contacting existing players about going to a new club. I would see how there might be some hard feelings in that case.Although everyone has the right to go out on their own.

So your saying CR has a right to be pissed at Shannon because some girls may decide to switch teams? That is crazy talk, if she is to be pissed at anyone, it should be at players for leaving, and you can't even get mad at that. All these other program have every right to start up and operate where ever and however they want, if a control freak can't handle that, too bad. I think its great for they girls to have options to play on various competitive teams. The more competitive clubs that spring up, the better. And that's what we are seeing here.

I stand corrected, i didn't mean she was justified, I meant Shannon is probably one of her most successful players, and maybe Carol felt a little betrayed.

[Please note : additional content in this posting was lost during reformatting. - CageSage]