BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2019 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

Goalie playing on both teams

I agree with 91 whites case. They are treated like the red headed step child in that organization. But when u have crush and orange ahead of u it's hard to establish yourselves. We played them a couple of times and they are a legit A team but 91 directors consistently put them in B brackets and they destroy teams. Not making the kids better. Hopefully u guys play in different tournaments next year so u can prove yourselves. Good luck!

Trying to understand top Long Island Teams/Ages/Names. My son plays for nationally known WashDC based travel club, Madlax at U13. In past we have run into unbelievably skilled teams from Long Island, Dune Dogs and Express and others. I love the competition, but I can't keep them straight from year to year. Our teams are consistently named, so when you play a Madlax Orange you have the top team for the club in that age group. At youth our teams are USLacrosse U9-U15. HS by class year.
From what I read here Team 91 does 4 teams, 2 that are AA teams. Are all 4 team 2019's, by class? Would these teams be age qualified for u13 by USLacrosse? What are team names from top to bottom?
Long Island Express does 3 teams. All 2019s? USLacrosse U13s? Names top to bottom?
I have not seen Team Long Island or Superstar 365 in Mid Atlantic tourneys.
Summer of 2012 we got beaten badly (12-2? In our own tournament-ouch!) by a team named the Dune Dogs. I see passing reference to them but they don’t appear to be from Express or Team 91. Who are they? Same ?? about age qualifications
Mostly curious and would like to play all y'all again!
Virginia Lax Dad

LI pretty much goes by grade. Except maybe team LI for 2019. But i believe all 2019 are u13.

91
Orange.
White
Stampede
( with the caveat that Crush is a 2020 team. With some holdbacks that should be 2019 but this is a 2019 thread and they often play 2019 - is probably as good if not better than Orange - they claim the hold backs will be u13 eligible another year just late birthdays)

Express
Wolverines (used to be orange)
Terps (used to be blue)

Team LI goes by "U" designation.
Red
White

Dune Dawgs
Has some crush kids on top team. Other age groups of dune dawgs (actually calls themselves havoc dune dawgs) are not as strong as this one group/team of boys.

A few other teams are quality teams. Outlaws fl$ and a new organization Legacy. There are a few tournaments this weekend and thanksgiving weekend which may add some more color to the top teams. True blue (blue) used to be a top 2019 team but has fallen off a bit, top playr moved to DD. curious to see if they can rebuild.

But as far as second teams only 91s second teams are quality teams maybe maybe not A but very strong B.

Virginia Lax Dad - Keep in mind what this guy's talking about is all based on last summer, of course.

"ONLY" 91's second teams are quality teams? The teams were JUST created weeks ago, and you're already making these declarations? What team does your son play for, by the way?

This is correct. All Class of 2019 players are U/13 eligible however not all U/13 eligible players are graduating in the Class of 2019. The current age group conversion table appears below.

12/01/95 - 08/31/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 12th Grade ... U/18
09/01/96 - 11/30/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 12th Grade ... U/17

12/01/96 - 08/31/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 11th Grade ... U/17
09/01/97 - 11/30/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 11th Grade ... U/16

12/01/97 - 08/31/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 10th Grade ... U/16
09/01/98 - 11/30/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 10th Grade ... U/15

12/01/98 - 08/31/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 9th Grade .... U/15
09/01/99 - 11/30/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 9th Grade .... U/14

12/01/99 - 08/31/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/14
09/01/00 - 11/30/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/13

12/01/00 - 08/31/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/13
09/01/01 - 11/30/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/12

12/01/01 - 08/31/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/12
09/01/02 - 11/30/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/11

12/01/02 - 08/31/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 5th Grade .... U/11
09/01/03 - 11/30/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 5th Grade .... U/10

12/01/03 - 08/31/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 4rd Grade .... U/10
09/01/04 - 11/30/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 4rd Grade .... U/9

12/01/04 - 08/31/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 3nd Grade .... U/9
09/01/05 - 11/30/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 3nd Grade .... U/8

12/01/05 - 08/31/06 ... Class of 2024 ... 2nd Grade .... U/8
09/01/06 - 11/30/06 ... Class of 2024 ... 2nd Grade .... U/7

yes, this does get confusing even for people on LI because instead of using letter designations and potentially hurting someones's feelings, we now use colors, mammals and/or reptiles to designate the teams. As far as the age grouping is concerned, you dont have to worry if your child plays on a MD team. You are pretty much 6 mos. to one year older than the LI kids you are playing every time you step on the field unless you play up a bracket. Not whining, just a fact. For example, last year we played two MD tourneys, U13 category was - "born after September 1, 1999". The majority of the boys on my son's 2019 team were born in 2001 (a couple in 2002). So you dont have to be a math genius to know you are playing older kids (as if the 6" height difference doesnt tell you enough). Also, im afraid you guys down there may be taking a page out of our book - who the heck is Mad Rock? were they the Rock, Mad Lax, or some combination of both?

meant to say Quality A (not just quality) team.

Id be happy to tell VLD which organizations second team plays at an A level. Can you tell me which second team from the organizations listed are "A" team competition. I also didn't list the other organizations top teams that were B. I gave him in what my opinion was a fair look on the LI landscape. of course things will change in the next few months, for right now I call it like I see it.

Or maybe since he lost 12-2 to DD which had the Crush kids (just look at the pictures) maybe your second team is just what they want. VLD you decide. That is what is great about this blog. One person says something it gets critiqued, but am I really off base.

As far as Second teams you are right. This is based loosely on LY and what I know from the limited games and practices as well as from the friends of my sons on these teams TY. I am sure this will get updated between now and May.

Express - not sure how they will be your right. But history has dictated the better 2019 players run as far away from that second team. It is a shame they could have what 91 has in white a solid top B am looking to break in as an A (with a 2020 team pushing them to stay on top of their game)

Dune Dawgs - Had a good second team not sure what has happened to them.

Team LI - Has a solid second team, but their tryouts are so early you never know. (could have been a miss but this organization is such a mystery when you see them play)

Outlaws silver /True Blue white /Legacy Renagades they all have second teams that will play against each other and play some good fun lacrosse. These second teams will also play against some of the other organizations and clubs (Jesters/Tomahawks/Million/Rampage/Vipers/365) top teams and will do well against them. This is the group that a boy or 2 will come out of and surprise everyone as a stand out after the hormones start kicking in at those different rates for 12/13 year olds.

Sage, Do they really have U teams and events with the even year - U8, U10, U12, U14, U16.

But a bigger questions for 2019 is what team has a player only eligible for "u15" on their 2019 team and therefore plays "Grade" only.

Are there any boys with a birth year prior to Aug 2000 on a grade based 2019 team. Boys who have been 13 for more than 2+ months.


(not looking for player names but LI teams that promote this).

Last year Rock and Madlax were going to merge and then the infamous e-mail from Madlax came out and Rock pulled out. So the Rock is back being the Rock with no affiliation with Madlax.
The 2019 team from last year stayed the same pretty much. Couple left the team and a couple joined.

My son plays 2019, is in 7th grade but birthday 11/30/2000. I held him for sure, but honestly never thought about lacrosse or any sport for that matter, he just wasn't ready. Who thinks about travel lacrosse when a kid is 4 and going to kindergarten?????

The organization is Havoc Dune Dawgs or HDD. The HDD 2019 Taylor team played at MadLax Capital classic 2 years in a row and were the champions of their brackets both times.

The organization has teams from grad years 2024 - Varsity. There was a merger between Havoc Lacrosse and Dune Dawgs Lacrosse and now they are Havoc Dune Dawgs.

Who really cares about the DD, HDD or any other initials you want to call them. Besides from one team 2019 I think they added another A to it this year 2019AAA team they are not very competitive

Stay tuned on Dune Dawgs 2nd team this summer. They picked up some solid kids, and a new coach, and should be very competitive in the B brackets.

Do you guys plan on coming up to LI for any games.

Spring Lax jam in May is a great starter for LI and then LI Lax Fest is always a good tournament when you should be peaking in June.

This is a very active and impressive forum--very happy to have stumbled on to it. Thank you for the volume of thoughtful and respectful responses. There are many issues raised and I look forward to addressing them in future posts.
Kudos to CageSage standing up Mid-Atlantic section. Hopefully soon it will be as entertaining as its Northeast sibling. I have registered and eagerly await confirmation to begin my replies--VaLaxDad

That is great to hear (H)DD will again have a another solid team for the 2019 mix. Have you guys started practicing or playing. Will you be playing in the next few weeks. Good Luck

What team and organization is so lucky to have a dope like you?

Just when the VA guy was saying what an interesting, respectful conversation this was, this knucklehead shows up!

This forum is better than any reality TV show!

Dancing with Cagesage !!! LOL

Carrie Ann, Len, and Bruno would never be the same.

Agreed, down the rabbit hole we go! Someone always has to come on and insult a group of kids playing a game. We should start doing what the native americans did - play to the death. Only it should be the parents playing and not the kids. When are some of these people going to understand that once these kids start playing at the high school level, this stuff doesnt matter (not it really matters now in the grand scheme of things)?

CageSage-
Thanks again for moderating. Great board!
Interested to take up youth team age issues raised by posters. Age, not class year, is the relevant measure of physical advantage, in my opinion. I draw a distinction between youth teams and high school (HS) teams. 2017, or freshman, is our youngest HS team in Virginia. Our youth teams are set according to USLacrosse age guidelines:
U13: Born on or after 9/1/00
See bottom of Page 1: http://www.uslacrosse.org/portals/1/documents/pdf/participants/players/2014-boys-youth-rules.pdf
We do not set youth teams by class year, although an u13 AA team is likely all 7th graders (2019), and maybe young 8th graders, with a couple of talented 6th graders possibly sprinkled in. 2yrs per age group; U9, U11, U13, U15. I had never heard of U12 or U14 before finding this board.
A comparison of ages of U13 or 2019 youth teams drawn from CageSage’s response to my previous post:
LI: In WashDC:
12/1/99 or older are U15 or HS
12/01/99 - 08/31/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/14; U15 in WashDC
09/01/00 - 11/30/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/13; U13 in WashDC

12/01/00 - 08/31/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/13; U13 in WashDC
09/01/01 - 11/30/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/12; U13 in WashDC

12/01/01 - 08/31/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/12; U13 in WashDC
8/31/02 or younger is U11 (or U9) in Washington.
The ages are very close, but on Long Island our U13AA Orange team would lose its oldest members; those born in September, October and November of 2000. There is no doubt that losing these oldest players would significantly weaken our team. These kids are mostly 7th graders here as our school ages run 10/1 to 9/30 according to state established guidelines. At the youth level, there is nothing sinister going on here, just kids that are in school together playing sports together. It seems odd that there is a 3 month discrepancy per class VA to LI. I am not sure why in practice we differ, except that perhaps our kids start 1st grade earlier.
There may be exceptions, but in my experience, within the NPYLL the USLacrosse age guidelines are followed. This is true for all NPYLL teams, even those in Baltimore area—Crabs, Breakers, Hawks, etc. Enforcement is an open question, but it is hard to believe that paid coaches at for-profit clubs would turn a blind eye to discrepancies. Older (and younger) kids routinely play out of class (and age group) because of birthdates that fall outside the guidelines.
As it is at the youth level, DC and NPYLL teams hold a narrow age advantage over LI teams since we are up to 3 months older. With reclassings (B.S. in my book), HS may be a completely different story, particularly at the privates.
Unfortunately, this reasoning also does not explain Jr’s team getting smoked by the Dune Dogs ;-)
-VaLaxDad

Great explanation, thanks. LI appears more organized than I thought from reading this forum. Do these travel teams routinely play each other? Do you have a travel League similar to NPYLL (www.npyll.com)? Do the top LI travel teams play in a single tournament during the summer? Summer 2012, we saw Express Orange at Tristate (lost 6-5 IIRC-great game), but, sadly, we have stopped playing in that tournament. I have a million questions, but come back to it would be fun to get our best and your best together, and maybe throw Philly’s best in the mix!
See my previous post about age discrepancies. Madlax is usually 2 teams per age group, so our U13s have 2 teams AA and A, named Orange and Blue respectively. Occasionally, if there's interest, Madlax stands up a lower level A team named White. All team names are consistent throughout Madlax, but our age groups span 2yrs, so U13s would be comprised of 6th and 7th graders.
I am still a little confused as to how LI does it. Are you saying that Team 91 might have 7-8 teams between its U13 and U12 or 2019 and 2020 age groups?

Got it. We may have identified another difference. We try out in late August or early September and play a 8 game fall league schedule. 1 game, 1 practice per week, followed by playoffs. We also played 3 tourneys in November, 20 games or so total. It looks like you start later, no fall league, and maybe a couple of playdays and tourneys--10 games or so?.

I hope the age group differences are adequately covered by my previous post. Funny thing, before analyzing CageSage's post, I thought the Dune Dogs had an age advantage that would explain Jr's team getting crushed. My pride may have only been exceeded by my ignorance!

Poster is correct about Madlax Rock merger being on, and then being off. Too bad. Madlax stood up a "National Team" by class year for summer tourneys and the Rock contributed some nice players which appeared to be a win for each.
VaLaxDad

Great team, very skilled and fun to watch. However inconvenient, I think we have also debunked the myth circulating on our sidelines that you had older kids. Good luck in future and hope to see you again.
VaLaxDad

If this was directed to me, no, not that I know. I wish we were and will lobby based on responses here. I am a consumer, not in a position to decide where we go. Frankly, I would like to hear that best LI teams are participating in a mutually (in)convenient tourney in NJ or PA that would be well run. Tristate is good, but we have dropped. We play Hogan's Hershey, which is fun for the family but weak competition. Reffing iffy too. Personally, I believe you can only be the best by playing the best. Let me know of ideas
VaLaxDad

We do not have a league similar to NPYLL. I for one have been a proponent of having a NPYLL "North" where we could play our league here, NPYLL Central-PA/NJ, and then the teams come together towards the end of the spring to play a championship. The one drawback here is that the owners of the organizations will not do it because there is no money to be made, since the NPYLL is a non-profit.... The NPYLL website clearly states that they would like to expand to other hotbed areas. Maybe we could get the conversation going here on LI.

Laxdad14

Thanks for the reply, LaxDad14. Not sure of issues preventing LI from having its own league similar to NPYLL, but lots of smart people up there to figure it out. I can assure LI for-profit club owners that league organization or non-profit status has not prevented Crabs, Madlax or other clubs from draining wallets! Think of Championship weekend where all 3 areas -- LI, Philly, DC/Balt -- get together. Lots of profit potential!

Philly Fever and NXT have some good tournaments. How is the madlax box tournament over MLK weekend?

Laxdad14

LaxDad14 -i don't know much about this MLK day box tourney. I think it's the first year. Website is our mutual friend. Sorry.

Went to Fever tourney last Fall. Competition at youth was unimpressive. On the plus, had fun in Philly! Unfamiliar with NXT youth tourney, please elaborate. Overall, I could be completely offbase, and i know Philly is a hotbed, but it is even more confusing, and seemingly less organized, at youth level than LI.

Laxdad14 how's dune dawgs looking this year. Any new additions like last year? Is Bolla playing in Heckshire's town day?

New additions, yes. Actually looking stronger than last year. Bolla isn't playing, but a mixed 7/8th grade team.

They lost a very good middie also

I hope that mixed 7th/8th grade team is playing up in the 8th grade division where they belong...

Dunedawgs have a combined 7/8th grade team ?

Not DD's... That Bolla Team.