BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2020-2021 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse Season

North should be the winner. She is most complete player on the field. She also makes others around her better. She creates so many slides that others benefit greatly by how defense have to prep for her game.

On a second note US lacrosse/NCAA need to have instant reply added next season for Women’s lacrosse. It is more important to get calls right than speed of game. This weekend there were a few calls that should have been reviewed. I think limit reviews to following-
-Any goal
-Any goal circle infraction-after shot, pushed in goal circle
-Dangerous propel, follow through and shot. A couple things here I think need to be looked at overall. Did the player fake it? Was there contact? Did ball hit something before player?(we have too many players moving into path of ball when beat. That needs to be looked at in the overall rules. This is also and issue for dangerous follow through. If player is in thier motion already it shouldn’t be a penalty.

Just a few thoughts..Have a great summer

Great suggestions to enhance the integrity of the game!

Instant replay is a lot harder than it appears. Forget regular season games. The technology and money for that technology is not available. The semifinal and finals have ESPN doing the transmission but even what they bring to the games falls short of what needs to be in place. I watched a replay of the game and there were at least six bad calls. Just don’t use that crew again.

There were a ton of bad calls in the semi - final game as well. In a close game those bad calls can determine the outcome. Just be consistent.

All schools have what you need for instant replay. They have the technology at every university they streams games. We see it every day with all other NCAA sports. It needs to be put in place for next year. The piont is if they don’t have a good view of it then don’t overturn it. Big games in May ESPN has great views as we saw yesterday on goal that didn’t count, and the many pushes into goal circle that were called wrong.

And I also detest the two whistles between the 30s. What a joke. Talk about slow down a fast break, and reward the defense. I still would love to see more timed fouls. Push in the back with possession is 1 minute green card. Doesn’t account against yellows. It would clean game up.

Another 2 rules that need to change and would align with the men.
- If there is a foul on the draw or a violation, the 8 girls on the defensive end should have to hold in the box until the whistle. The team receiving the ball due to a foul shouldn't have to get it past the attackers as well as the middies to get the ball over the restraining line
- If a team is up a girl due a card at the end of the half and holds the ball they should start the second half with possession of the ball.

I really like the two additions above. I would also
Add get ball in attacking zone with 60 seconds on shot clock(so 30 seconds to clear). Haven’t watched men’s in a while I liked that rule in championship yesterday getting ball over midline in 20 seconds. Speeds up game as well and rewards a team with a good redefend.

US lacrosse needs to really look at rules and say who does this rule help, Offense or defense? Then adjust accordingly. I agree with the two whistles between 30s. Only helps defense, and it is a defense of penalty(say that to yourself twice)

They want to speed up game which we all agree they have done a great job, but now they need to go back and take the next step. I like the idea of timed penalties. Remove the cards except for dangerous shots that hit some one or follow through.
The women’s game and how it is being played now needs a re boot on rules. So far great improvement to the game, hopefully they will evolve further this year.

Understand a “re-look” at some of the new rules. The problem with a lot of these ideas is you want to give game officials more to look for. Most refs are terrible at best. Most don’t know the rules as they are. Giving refs more “power” to influence games I’m afraid will cause more problems. The ghost fouls in the 8-meter have ruined many a game. Did Tyrell really need to be tossed from the game? The head bob/flop has become epidemic to the game. Playing defense is virtually impossible if you implemented more fouls/timed penalties. Maybe look at the other side. I do agree some changes can be made but be careful of u intended consequences.

I do agree with more power to influence games could be an issue. I do believe the ability to review plays will make the game better. Between a couple rule updates, and ability to review could just help move game to a better place. Accountability is key.

Just catching up. I just watched BC v UNC . Great game by BC. However I see the issue with refs on both sides of teams. There is always a discretion calls. But they need Instant replay badly. I point bringing up fouls, yellows etc..as this is always subjective.

Two major screw ups in final minute(clock stops) with refs that has nothing to do with discretion or refs. If they have replay clock would have been corrected. Time for women’s lax to up the game.

1)UNC doubling. Ball goes out of bounds at 33.8 clock ticks to 28.0(6 seconds lost. When play resumed 28 seconds on clock.

2) KH has ball inadvertent whistle , clocks goes from 11.4 to 8.3-3 seconds lost. When play resumed 8.3 on clock

That is almost 10 seconds lost on clock that if they had replay would be added back.

Note -Gait had 8 seconds put back on clock in NW game at 27:56 mark. How were they able to add this back with no replay???? Bench ref on it????

Just add replay to increase integrity of game to next level.

Overall a great college season even with Covid. Great job by all teams and kids to preserve through it.

2021 Final Coaches Poll

1 - Boston College

2 - Syracuse

3 - North Carolina

4 - Northwestern

5 - Stony Brook

6 - Notre Dame

7 - Florida

8 - Duke

9 - Loyola Maryland

10 - Maryland

11 - Virginia

12 - James Madison

13 - Denver

14 - Rutgers

15 - Drexel

16 - Stanford

17 - Johns Hopkins

18 - Jacksonville

19 - Temple

20 - Massachusetts

21 - UConn

22 - Towson

T-23 - Hofstra

T-23 - Penn State

25 - Louisville

I'm not the original poster... But here you go, for what it is worth.... cut and paste...

Listed below are the Top 10 Teams in terms of how many Under Armour All-Americans the program brought in from 2016 - 2020 (current freshman - 5th year)

1 - North Carolina - 23

2 - Maryland - 20

3 - Syracuse - 18

4 - Florida - 14
5 - Notre Dame - 14

6 - Northwestern - 12
7 - Virginia - 12

8 - Boston College - 11

9 - Duke - 10
10 - Stanford - 10


Listed below is the 2021 Final Top 10 Ranking (coaches poll).


1 - Boston College

2 - Syracuse

3 - North Carolina

4 - Northwestern

5 - Stony Brook

6 - Notre Dame

7 - Florida

8 - Duke

9 - Loyola Maryland

10 - Maryland

Eight of the Final Top 10 teams just happen to be teams that were in the Top 10 for bringing in UA All-Americans....

Also worth noting, Loyola who finished the year ranked 9th in the Poll brought in 9 UA AA's which put them at #11 in terms of AA's.

Virginia who was also in the Top 10 with UA All-Americans finished the season Ranked 11th in the coaches poll.

People have way too much time on their hands

I guess you are one of the people.

I am hoping we have a ref on this link-

Dangerous Follow through- your stick has to make contact with opposing team-I think that one is easy

Dangerous Propel-any shoot deemed out of control or deemed dangerous. This is my question. It seems as if especially in the college game as long as you don’t hit someone with your shot anything pretty much goes? Is this the new rule? It sure seems like it. I see shots taken with no regard to where it is going, BTBs where they have no idea who is behind them, shoots over defenders heads.

So is it safe to say your stick or ball has to hit someone to get here calls? If not this rule is lost

Second is Cradling in the Sphere-why does this rule even exist. It is never called, but is the most abused call in the game. Everytime a player is in trouble they immediately cradle in sphere. But what is called is check in sphere. I don’t get it?? What happen first was the cradle in sphere.

Just wanted to get some feedback on these two rules.

In other words, UNC and Maryland can easily field their starting lineups with only UAAAs and still not win a NC or even conference in Maryland's case. BC did it pulling in only half the number UAAAs. JMU won in 2018 with I'm guessing zero UAAAs. Stony Brook has come so close to making the final four with hardly any UAAAs. Notre Dame sure didn't look good post season for a team with all those UAAAs! Penn State and USC get their fair share of UAAAs yet unranked or barely ranked by end of this season. Denver beat Stanford in the tournament with zero UAAAs.

Thanks for taking the time to research and prove the point every reasonable wlax fan has tried to make: yes, almost all the players named UAAA are very good and deserving but some other very good players get overlooked (case in point this year, Emma Ward) and it's possible to be a top program without many or even any UAAAs.

Congratulations to 2021Tewaaraton Award winner Charlotte North!

What he said.... :-)

I do not think anyone said that a program can not be competitive (or a top program) without UA players nor did anyone say that there are not very good players who get overlooked. The guy (or girl) was just pointing out that just maybe the folks who select the players for the UA Senior Game do know what they are doing.

Whenever a "team" or "ranking" comes out there are always people who want to knock it. They do it with Under Armour, UA Underclass, Team USA, IL recruit rankings etc.... Most of the time it's sour grapes.

If true, Like or dislike him women’s lacrosse is losing a HUGE person who pushed the game forward. Between Sticks, stringing, innovative, strategy, concepts, training he changed the game. He was a huge advocate for the women’s game and change.

I know people will be critical that he didn’t win a Natty, but many he coached and taught did.(AW, KAH, CR)

He will win quickly in the men’s game.

This is a huge win for the men's team, but obviously a huge loss for the women's team. Big shoes to fill - it'll be interesting to see who gets the job. Like it or not, girls commit to Syracuse to play for him, big loss.

Spallina to Cuse Womans Lax? would be a home-run hire.

I think it will be a woman and Syracuse Alumni.

The second to the top quote says, "In most cases, there is a direct correlation between the number of Under Armour All-Americans a team brings in and how competitive the team is." The numbers presented says otherwise, but everyone is entitled to their own interpretation.

Regarding the UA discussion and the quote: "In most cases, there is a direct correlation between the number of Under Armour All-Americans a team brings in and how competitive the team is."

My interpretation is the the person was trying to say that the programs that tend to bring in the most UA All-Americans tend to be the most competitive programs. I did not read it as would win the championship or win vs every team with less UA players.

below is Copied from another discussion

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* "To put things in perspective... Someone defined Top DI schools as "Top 10 Ranked schools". If we look at the past 5 full seasons of play, 2015 - 2019 and look at the Final Rankings there were a total of 20 teams that were ranked in the Top 10. Below is the list of teams that finished in the Top 10 (also listed How many year the team finished in the top 20)

Maryland - 5x Top 10
North Carolina - 5X Top 10

Boston College - 4X Top 10 (5X Top 20)
Princeton - 4X Top 10 (5X Top 20)
Syracuse - 4X Top 10 (5X Top 20)

Northwestern - 3X Top 10 (5X Top 20)
Florida - 3X Top 10 (5X Top 20)
Stony Brook - 3X Top 10 (5X Top 20)
Virginia - 2X Top 10 (5X Top 20)
Penn - 1X Top 10 (5X Top 20)

I would say the above are Top 10 Programs as they have finished in the Top 10 and are also finish in the Top 20 every year.

The teams listed below have also finished in the Top 10 but seem to be less consistent as they do not always finish in the Top 20.

Penn State - 3X Top 10 (4X Top 20)
Notre Dame - 2X Top 10 (4X Top 20)

Loyola - 2X Top 10 (3X Top 20)
USC - 2X Top 10 (3X Top 20)
Navy - 2X Top 10 (3X Top 20)

Stanford - 1X Top 10 (3X Top 20)
JMU - 1X Top 10 "National Champion" (3X Top 20)
Duke - 1X Top 10 (2X Top 20)
Towson - 1X Top 10 (2X Top 20)
Denver - 1X Top 10 (2X Top 20)"*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The most competitive programs bring in more talent than other schools. Whether they are UA All-Americans or not the vast majority of players who are offered a spot at the Top Programs are very very good players. When a non UA player walks in and starts or plays in every game as a freshmen at one of the top programs... Yes, they could have been on the UA team, I'm sure they were deserving.

From what I can tell, it looks like there is definitely some correlation .... it looks like the programs that consistently out perform 85 - 90% of the programs every year and are consistently in the Top 10 or Top 20 are mostly the teams that bring in the most UA players. 7 of those top 10 programs are also in the top 10 with UA players.

That said, the real correlation is between how many "legit players" a program brings in and how competitive the program is. There are great players who do not make UA and there are great players that do make UA...
The thing most of them have in common is that they go to the best programs.

Rarely if ever do programs not listed above challenge to be a Top 10 or even top 20 team. The common denominator is talent. The top teams simply have more talent. Combine talent with good or great coaching and you have a chance to win a championship. There will always be deserving players who do not get selected because there are a limited number of spots “44”. Position plays a role as well, a player could be one of the Top 10 goalies if they only take 4 the player is out of luck.... same goes for the other positions.

The original post did not try to disparage players who are not selected, it only pointed out that many of the players that did make it were very good players. Pretty sure the reason for the post was to combat the many posts over the years that have been critical of UA.

It has been said on here many times, “the only list that really matters is the college coaches lists.” Some players fall through the cracks but for the most part the top programs appear to consistently identify the top talent.

Rational people realize that there are more than 44 exceptional seniors.

Will Joe Spallina go to Syracuse!?

Just read an article that said SU offered job to SU Alum / BC Assistant Coach but she turned it down... anything is possible but there are some additional SU Alumni that are probably being considered. IMHO JS would be a great hire.

A program like Syracuse, in my opinion, will hire a proven head coach, I doubt that whom ever they hire that this will be their first HC job.
Albany HC was star at SU
Wagner HC was star at SU
Pat Mcabe was a star at SU coached Adelphi womens to several Nat Championships

Congratulations to All who earned All-American Honors.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/iwlca-announces-women-s-division-i-all-americans/58068

When Gait came in, he had been the Assistant coach at MD.

All I know it would be hard for any coach to turndown an ACC HC role. I think Spallina would win a National title there.

The Syracuse women's program did not have much history at all when Gary took over. It's a completely different situation now taking over the program he built.

For the women sake, I hope Spallina doesn't end up there. To go from Gait to Spallina is heartbreaking.

"I have a big ego because I'm the best lacrosse player the world has ever seen."

"I have a big ego because I'm small and never made much of myself in sports. But I tan a lot and take a look at how white my teeth are."

Very different people.

He might go there to keep an eye on his superstar son, he also has a few other kids that are low-level recruits that he may be able to pull some strings for.

Would have to agree seeing success with SB with lesser talent I think he would get SYR over the top

This didn’t age well now did it?????

Hahaha. Not even close bud~John Bender

Exciting to see Clemson add lacrosse in the ACC!