BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) fl$ Lawsuit

Dissolve "fl$" corp. and start a new one, example FLM

How much are they behind in missed payments.

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hahaahhaaa

It doesn't say that anywhere in the filed documents for this case. Just supposition in the initial claim that fl$ is threatening to go bankrupt to avoid the payments.

I also heard that they had 30 days to pay a balance of approx. 150k in back payments so will be interesting to see what fl$ does in the next 26 days or so

Any new news about this lawsuit?

Per latest filing....

fl$ was to pay Pioneer $8,333.33 every month for a period of 10 years ($1MM total)

They started paying June 1, 2017 and made subsequent payments in July, august and September. They defaulted in October 2017 and have not made a payment since September 2017. You can do the math.

Per the latest letter from Pioneer's attorneys:
...Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer seek to file a motion for summary judgement dismissing the counterclaims and third-party claims and also for affirmative summary judgement based upon the straightforward payment defaults under the Consulting agreement. In addition, Mr. Jahelka has serious concerns that Mr. Winkoff is using the revenues of fl$ (namely monies that are due to Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer under the Consulting Agreement) for personal and family uses and likely for the funding of this litigation. In addition, based upon the 2017 fl$ tax returns provided to Mr. Jahelka, fl$ as of December 31, 2017 has an outstanding SBA loan of $333,000, along with an open line of credit in the outstanding amount of $91,000. As of the same date, Mr. Winkoff is reported on the returns to owe fl$ approximately $350,000 from "shareholder loans". As a result, Mr. Jahelka and Pioneer see to file with the summary judgement motion an application for an accounting and/or to retain a receiver or monitor to review the books and records of fl$.

In short, @#$^@#$(^ about to get real.

Let me also add...

The purchase deal was as follows:

Total price: $1,750,000
Paid at closing: $550,000
Due 10/15/2017: $100,000
Due 3/15/2018: $100,000

Consulting Agreement (basically a no interest loan): $1,000,000 to be paid in monthly increments over 10 years
$100,000/year divided into monthly payments of $8,333.33 that were due on the 1st of the month.

will the boys be able to keep their helmets

Yes and no.

They have to return 1/120th of it to Jahelka each month.

I'm kind of glad my son didn't make the team this year.

So Winky took a 300k loan from his own business. What is he doing with this money besides pay for his daughters wedding? How naive could he be? Thinking this wouldn't catch up with him?

He can certainly borrow money from his business, but what if he's positioning things so that the company doesn't have any assets that can be used to pay Jahelka? Based on the letter to the judge that foreshadows their impending motion, it appears that Jahelka believes Winkoff may be diverting assets out of fl$.

He'll survive for a while. Its a shell game with the $ with this guy. When its catches up to him and he can't make payroll or rent on the headquarters on Main Street in Huntington it will all fall apart. I would stay far away from this organization.

How competitive are their teams, I never see them at any tournaments.

They keep the money in house. They mainly attend their own tournaments.

If its their own tournaments they must be making a fortune off them, $4000 for tuition, and this guy can't make the payments.

You are assuming he can't make his payment. More likely he does not *want* to make some specific payments.

That's even worst

Especially for an organization the preaches integrity, sportsmanship. What a joke. I don't think winky wll be winning any STUDLETE awards. He certainly won't earn the right to "wear 19".

Have any of you considered perhaps there was a breach of contract by the entity not getting paid leading to the current situation??? Hmmmm.

Have you considered reading the complaint and answer? If you had, you would have also seen the consulting agreement which is basically a fancy way for fl$ to pay Jahelka in monthly increments. The agreement, which was for 10 years/$1MM is pretty specific - you pay whether or not Pioneer renders any services.

If there was a breach of contract, that most certainly would have been brought up in fl$'s answer to the complaint. Instead, fl$ claims that both parties were represented by the same law firm and that Winkoff had no idea what he was signing because Winkoff claims he had no idea Pioneer had to be paid no matter what.

All of this was addressed in the September 7th filings, complete with supporting emails and documents, showing that Winkoff was well aware of what he was signing and knew that the law firm was representing fl$, not Jahelka nor Winkoff.

My comments have and always will be based on the documents filed with the court, not supposition.

And for those following at home, this case has the potential to provide great insight into the financial operations of a club/organizer. If you've ever wondered how these clubs make money, this case is not to be missed.

Good point about looking behind the curtain. From help wanted ads for coaches it looks like 5K per season plus free for your kid. I doubt giant clubs pay full price at these tourneys when then bring 10 teams to a stay to play. Say a club has 16 teams of 20 players each at 2K per, 640K of revenue per year. 80K for coach salaries plus 40K free go for coaches children. 200K max for tourney entry fees. heck 100K for field rental/ indoor space etc. That leaves around 250K for admin fees, insurance, marketing, equipment and most important director/owners salary. 150k salary/year possible? I realize most clubs are not that big but some of the cost's will decrease year over year especially if you own your practice facility or host own tournaments. Kickbacks for "Stay to play" etc. Comparison in girls Lax would be HOCO team which is part of howard county rec and parks, free fields, non paid coaches. Fees are around half of private clubs, 1K per kid. I am sure they all make HOCO pay full price at tourneys as well.

In addition, 3d lacrosse is filing a lawsuit against True Lacrosse. More behind the curtain opportunities. I think what is interesting is that these clubs along with fl$ are the most expensive clubs in the sport.

The landlord of their 345 Main Street store front is now suing FLG due to breach of contract of their lease. They have missed rent payments from July 2018-Present.

this is a smart, organized, legal path to insolvency and bankruptcy to avoid paying what is owed. Its legal and shady in the same breath.

Too much money in youth sports which leads to absolutely nothing for all but 2% of high school athletes that go on to receive athletic money in college

At what point do you avoid everything to do with this organization, including the multiple tournaments and showcases they run on LI and elsewhere? What is stopping them from taking the money and then playing the bankruptcy card?

They provide good exposure and good training. Whatever is going on behind the curtain is their problem. Completely satisfied with what is going on in front of the curtain. I'll save my martyrism for other facets of my life. lets see, I could go to Chan, alexgreaseballigloo, crumbling outlaws, db 88+3... please with the holier than thou rhetoric-they are all crooks.

They can easily do this which is concerning. There events have already been declining and so have their teams which is evident so cash flow is certainly an issue and one that I would not want to get involved with if I was a Team thinking about going to one of their events or an individual going to one of their LI showcases...

I am not an FL$ parent but I have been around a team that fell apart. The primary value in any team is the coaches. If I had a kid and liked this program I would speak with other parents and the coaches and have an exit plan ready if the team folded. It would not be hard to buy new uniforms and rent a field. Enter tournaments. What cannot be replaced is the coaches and players. Keeping that together and the teams may end in a better place.

FLG Tournaments DO not get top teams anymore. Charge way too much
Flg Travels teams are average, but charge big money.
3d Has teams everywhere that are also not good

GO OUTLAWS

GO OUTLAWS[/quote]


GO AWAY

laughing all the way to the bank!

FL$ had a really good product for a few years. They had one team in each grade and hadn't gotten into 5 year old travel lacrosse or trying to be in the tournament and showcase business. Their teams were good and considered both exclusive and competitive. Then they expanded too quickly and diluted their talent by adding Suffolk teams. You didn't see them at the best tournaments as they increasingly opted for the 3d events based on their partnership with that organization. Add to that their running over-priced, second-tier showcases and things really began to unravel. Along the way they had their Chaminade feud which caused many talented players to leave. And in the 2020 year they went "all in" on Manhasset only to see those dads turn on them and pull their kids to join the Turtles. Just one bad decision after another....

The Fish Rots From The Head

yellow jackets on the girls side did the same thing. went from elite to anyone who writes a check makes a team. Nothing elite about that!

What was the Chaminade feud?

The difference for YJ is that their top team is generally in the top 5 nationally. The top team is elite, the program makes money from the others.

For those watching at home - an update on the court case.

As you may recall, according to Jahelka, Winkoff agreed to purchase FLG for $1.75MM, structures as $750K in cash and $1MM paid out on a monthly basis via a 10 year consulting agreement which was to be paid regardless of whether or not services were rendered.

In FLG's latest filings, Winkoff claims that he never agreed to paying $1.75MM for the business but rather agreed to pay $750K because the business itself is worth "less than" $1.5MM. He was tricked into signing the consulting agreement because it was worded ambiguously and he didn't understand it.

Two motions waiting for the judge - one to dismiss the claim against the lawyers who drew up the deal (who said they were not representing either party but rather were just memorializing the deal) and another for summary judgement against FLG.

Assuming no more delays, we'll have an answer to the above before Christmas.