BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Read their annual report if you are interested. I am guessing you don't like them because their push for age based classification interferes with your holdback scheme. Sorry - it's all going age based at some point.

Wrong. All USL is provide recommended guidelines. The change they made last year was away from the U-9, U-11, U-13 model tonsingle year when it was possible based on number of players in the area. No one was following the U model up until last year either. They have the ability to enforce these rules at tournaments that they themselves run such as the U-15 national championships. They have no authority over any other league or tournament to make them follow these recommendations. No my son isn't a holdback. And I don't care for the holdback situation. But I'm also realistic enough to realize that the sport is growing exponentially and that means more money in everyone's pockets. They aren't going to make changes that could effect their wallets.

Their insurance policies. Their membership dues. The mens and womens national teams. Their $15 million dollar field and HQ building.

from what I've heard, the HOCO 10 game expansion would make for an earlier start of the season (i.e. late March), not weeknight games. And the AA county "club" league would be on Saturdays to complement HOCO, not replace. It would obviously compete w/ the Koopers thing they've been doing, though....I'm guessing that would fold. AA county would offer the turf fields, refs, scoring, admin, etc. the same way HOCO does, if not better. AA county has always operated an incredible county-wide rec program. before HOCO, there were very competitive A and AA divisions for each age group, and the kids played club for summer tourneys/winter training, and their respectable rec team during the spring (think SP, AYLA, DAA, SRYA, BAYS, etc.). Currently, there are 1/2 the # of teams registered for rec, and more field space across the county to use over the weekend. "A and "AA" do not really exist. And, there's a legitimate county financial void to fill.....

Any expansion of the HOCO schedule and a AACO Saturday league is a mistake. Kids are already playing too much lacrosse. The only people who care about HOCO Championships are the club directors and crazy parents. 6 game schedule with playoffs is a good balance for HOCO league.

When the kids played rec lacrosse there were two games a week. Why is it bad to have 2 a week now?

For starters, rec games were more or less in the neighborhood. Getting to hoco games on a week night will suck for most.

The one important thing they're in charge of is the NFHS Rule Book. But no youth league or state high school association is obligated to use NFHS rules. They can, and most state associations do use NFHS rules (though Texas HS football uses NCAA rules instead).

Youth leagues in other states may, to varying degrees, adopt US Lacrosse rules, but here in MD I'm not sure anyone is really doing that. Even the rec leagues don't use the LADM stuff except at the youngest ages.

So while US Lacrosse may call itself the "governing body of lacrosse," at this point they really govern very little.

The 2019 MadLax is stacked and nobody else in MD/VA compete

CAN YOU GET THE SCHEDULE OUT FOR THE YEAR!!!! wth people have stuff going on and you have known for how long what teams are playing in the leagues.This is some BS. Both this league and the Koopers league need to figure out what they are doing!! Absolutely atrocious. Not real hard to do schedule. I worked for a rec council at one time and so I know the challenges but it should not take this long when we have already played our 1st games.

Amen!

Do you honestly believe posting this little rant on an anonymous forum will get them to drop everything and get the schedule out quicker?You’re dumb. News flash, no games this weekend because of the holiday. So take a deep breath, since you claim you have worked for a rec council before. Because then you know it basically a volunteer position and they do their best. Quite frankly, I would rather them get the schedule right than release it and then make a zillion changes.

I am not sure what world you live in but the people who put the schedules together at HOWARD COUNTY PARKS AND REC and not volunteer. They are paid employees of the county and they are paid pretty good for their job. You should not have to make any changes once the schedule is out unless mother nature does that for you period. Plus all the field are turf so unless it is thundering out you should have to play.
Any youth or for that adult programs who have schedules should have at least the first 4 weeks out by now.

the Men's Masters Lacrosse schedule for the spring season has been out for 2 weeks and that is run by HOCO parks and rec.

Rumor has it that HOCO is trying to accommodate the flight schedule of certain teams. : )

Maybe the men’s master lacrosse league whines less and demands less accommodations and changes to everything?

Hope you are not a coach with that kind of temper. Interesting you have an issue with both leagues. Perhaps given your vast experience, you should start your own league?

Now that’s funny.

Aren’t all the teams local?

Yes, but all the players aren't. Teams have kids flying in from as far away as California. Seems unreal, but it has been happening for the last couple of years.

Here is how the top clubs did this year in HoCo. These are the clubs with more than 2 teams playing at the highest division for their age groups. There were 6 age divisions: 2022 thru 2027

Annapolis Hawks (6 Top Level Teams) - 93% win percentage - 4 Championships
Madlax (5 Top Level Teams) - 60% win percentage - 1 Runner up
Bethesda / DCE (6 Top Level Teams) - 55% win percentage - 1 Runner up
Looney's (5 Top Level Teams) - 51% win percentage
Crabs (4 Top Level Teams) - 43% win percentage
FCA (4 Top Level Teams) - 43% win percentage - 2 Runners up
Team 91 (5 Top Level Teams) - 40% win percentage - 2 Championships
Next Level (4 Top Level Teams) - 32% win percentage

Thanks Hawks Dad

percentage of hawks kids that are holdback cheaters 60%

The prior post may have been posted by a Hawks Dad but still pretty interesting to see how it shook out. Hawks have a pretty wide geographic area they pull talent from (AA & PG Counties , along with Eastern Shore) with not much other local top club competition, while 4 top tier clubs fight over the Baltimore talent and 3 clubs fight over DC/NoVa. Hawks/Hogan do a pretty good job of keeping that talent local.

Maybe oversimplifying it a bit because there are always a few one-offs that will commute distance, but if you are an unhappy camper at 1 club in Baltimore you have 3 other good options to jump to and that makes it hard for any 1 club in Baltimore to dominate.

Crabs dominated for many, many years.

Matt Hogan started Hawks so ANnapolis kids had a local option to playing for Crabs. Dave Cottle helped also. I doubt they ever thought they would dominate to this level and turn the Crabs into just another Baltimore club.

Patently false. Some team has to be the best. This year it happens to be the Hawks. Next year maybe it will your team. Or you could just keep
Making excuses

Historically, the Crabs have won the most games and championships at all grade levels they participated in with Hawks and BLC coming in a close second.

There never has been this much of a gap between the top club and all the others.

Tryouts are starting soon. Many are starting the last week of July, but most are early August. Crabs has a 2022 tryout on 7/11.

For those looking for a club or looking to switch, below are the area clubs teams that mostly play in HoCo and what level they typically play at for the different age groups (3rd thru 8th grade). Be sure to check with the Club for the specific Levels and ages for them.

AA is the highest level for the age group (AA or Elite depending on age group)
A is 2nd highest (A or AA)
B is 3rd or 4th highest (A or B)


Maryland

Anne Arundel County
Annapolis Hawks - Level AA, at 6 Ages
API Diamondbacks - Level AA-B, at 5 Ages
Peninsula (PLC) - Level AA-B, at 6 Ages
Sidewinders - Level AA-B, at 6 Ages
Rockfish - Level A-B, at 6 Ages
Green Hornets - Level A-B, at 6 Ages
Maryland Wild

Baltimore County
Team 91 MD - Level AA, at 5 Ages
Looney's - Level AA-A, at 6 Ages
Crabs - Level AA-A, at 5 Ages
FCA - Level AA-A, at 6 Ages
Breakers - Level AA-B, at 4 Ages
Coppermine - Level A-B, at 2 Ages
Rock - Level A-B, at 3 Ages
Koopers - Level AA-B, at 3 Ages
Kelly Post - Level A-B, at 4 Ages
Greene Turtle - Level A-B, at 2 Ages
Hereford (HLC) - Level B, at 4 Ages
Team 42 - Level B, at 1 Ages
MD Wolfpack - Level B, at 3 Ages
Redshirts - Level B, at 1 Age
Team 42

Calvert County
Cannons - Level AA-B, at 5 Ages

Carroll County
G - Level A-B, at 3 Ages
Revolution - Level B, at 2 Ages
South Carroll - Level B, at 2 Ages

Frederick County
3D MD (Lax Factory) - Level A-B, at 4 Ages
Team Maryland

Harford County
Thunder / Mavericks - Level A-B, at 3 Ages
Starz - Level B, at 1 Age

Howard County
Roughriders - Level AA-A, at 4 Ages
Zingos - Level AA-B, at 5 Ages
HoCo - Level A-B, at 5 Ages

Montgomery County
Bethesda / DC Express - Level AA, at 6 Ages
Madlax - Level AA-A, at 6 Ages
Next Level - Level AA-A, at 6 Ages
East Side Lacrosse - Level A, at 1 Age
MD Xtreme (MDX) - Level B, at 4 Ages

Prince Georges County
PG Lacrosse Club - Level A-B, at 2 Ages

Queen Anne’s County
USS - Level A-B, at 4 Ages

Talbot County
Crabs Hardshells
Dark Horse

Washington County
Lionheart

Virginia

Fairfax County
VLC - Level A-B, at 3 Ages
Top Caliber - Level B, at 2 Ages

Loudon County
3D Virginia - Level A, at 3 Ages
Cavalier - Level A-B, at 4 Ages
Evergreen - Level B, at 2 Ages

Pennsylvania

York PA
Chaos

Thanks for posting it seems you put some time into making this list and reviewing HOCO schedules. I find it interesting that when you put teams into a geographic breakdown it helps explain some of the success the Hawks have had. If the three top talent pools of MD are Baltimore, Annapolis, and Montgomery Co with kids from Howard able to easily go to all three areas, it appears that the Hawks seem to get the most talent as API and Peninsula (I think you left our South River) are not nearly as strong in the level they play or results. They simply attract the best talent compared to the other regions. In Baltimore: FCA, Team 91, Crabs, Looney's all seem to be closer talent and vary by age group. If all the top Baltimore players went to one team, would they be better than Hawks? This is also the same in Montgomery Co. where I assume you are counting Club Blue as now Madlax. Will this be the case in the Spring as well? I was not aware that Lax Factory is now 3d. Finally, why are there no top level teams in all of VA?

When examining the success of the programs from the youngest teams to the oldest teams - Annapolis Hawks seems to have the most quality teams across the board. I do think the Baltimore programs canabilize each other and Hawks definitely benefits from being the only game in town.

I heard the director of Rock played 2020's in a 2021 game at Trilogy 24 on Sunday. Is that true?

I can't imagine any director/coach would encourage HS kids to cheat and play down a grade level in a tournament.

https://admin.tourneymachine.com/Pu...ivision=h2018061904135712144c853a5c1e542

It must be true if you heard it. Meanwhile, your son’s team is probably loaded with kids who did prefirst or repeated 5th or grade but that has been normalized among the privileged elites in the Baltimore lacrosse circuit. Those of us with on age players just enjoy watching them play and have long given up worrying about the age of opposing players.

As summer ends and tryout's start which teams are either moving up or moving down next season? Might be something to consider when picking a team (s) to try out for.

I haven't seen it on Facebook, so doubt it's true

As a parent of a player in N.VA why do all the VA teams drive 1.5 to 2 hours depending on traffic each way to play in this league when most of the VA teams are lucky to win a few games? Wouldn't these teams just have more fun with a Sunday club league? Play NVYLL Sat, club game sunday, winner can play a HOCO team and loose at the end of the season. who is with me?

I agree with your point in this current set up. But if the VA clubs could keep all the talent on Va teams and if the VA clubs would do whats best for the kids not themselves. They would push the best talent to one or two teams at each grade and then they could win lots of games in HOCO.

So what’s best for the kids is building a NOVA super team? How about you stop worrying about the wins and losses and just worry about whether junior is getting better.

There are a few kids from VA going to MD to play club. Most live closer to Bethesda. However the majority still play for VA clubs I do not see a club director or coach advising a good player at tryouts to go to a better team to help the reputation of VA clubs. I think they just view it differently. I do not think it is a given that they have re-class holdbacks or whatever most play the age and grade that fits. Clubs have ties to HS programs and the goal is to make a stronger HS program. The kids will soon move up and a few will be good enough to play college. If the alternative is the mess that is MD club lacrosse I think many will just be content to keep things the way they are. Read the 2023 messages for more of what I refer to as a mess. All the information needed to make that case.

Its not about just building a supper team. Its about playing on the level that fits each kid. Look at the basketball model when it comes to kids from one high school team playing on several different club summer programs.In the AAU format 5 star player or players play with a 5 star club team and all the way down to 1 Star kids. I would bet all the best high school teams have players who play with several club teams. As for lacrosse look at a school like Landon. take all the players on this team. I would guess they play for 5 if not 7 different club teams during the summer. The kids all spread out and find the best team that meets their kids skill level.

If you don't want to drive out to HoCo, put your kid in a rec team and you won't have to. Your kid won't get better on a crappy rec team playing other crappy rec teams though.