BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

Ward Melville High School has had a great lacrosse program for the past 30 or 40 years. Please do not attempt to tie last years success to the 3Vlax youth lacrosse board.

So you are okay with back room dealings? The board makes up the rules as they go. I think maybe they started with good intentions and now have no idea how to handle the changing world of lacrosse. My son plays club lacrosse and was told by the 3V board that he couldn't be a part of their organization. While he would have loved to continue playing with his friends, he really is so happy and it was the best decision we made. Interestingly, now 3V will let kids play both, but it was a secret. The boys that play club were never invited back to play with their town. While other boys are allowed to play both if they play on the B team. My son would have played on the B team and my guess is so would others. They never wanted to leave 3V, but were told they absolutely could not be a part of travel lacrosse and PAL if they play elsewhere. Yet now I hear that kids are allowed to guest play for the A team as well. Shouldn't it be a set rule made known to the residents? I am guessing it is a secret because of the flood of kids that would rejoin their program. These are the kind of self serving back room dealings that I am talking about. And you are ok with that? WM won last year for several reasons, none of it was due to the 3V lacrosse board's policies.

you seem to have put a lot of work into this post with your numbers I would guess you are the mayor as well as the heart beat of the youth league.

Put Town politics away. If you do not believe that playing with stronger players is beneficial you are lying to yourself.

2014 Tewaaraton Award Watch List. The award is given to the Top Mens and Womens player in the country. One Male and one Female selected from a pool of D-1, D-2 and D-3 players.

Out of the Top 50 players on the "Watch List" here are former Express Players.

-Men-
Tommy Schreiber - Princeton
Brendon Fowler - DUKE,
Michael Chanenchuck - Maryland
Michael Ehrhardt - Maryland
Brandon Mangan - Yale
Dylan Levings - Yale
Zach Losco - Penn

Women
Kerrin Mauerer - Duke

I am sure if go down the list you will find that just about all of the players played for "Both" their Town / High School as well as a private club.


Express and the Chaim St A connection doesn't count... That is their summer team.

Any on that list from WM.

Here is my perspective, being an ex-college player, youth coach, high school coach, parent and not living in a community with a strong lacrosse tradition. "Elite" travel teams have merit. They bring together kids from different communities that are serious about playing lacrosse. These are the kids that attend camps, clinics and are most likely to play wall ball on their own. Do the high school elite "A" teams get extra exposure and looks by colleges? They do. Especially if these kids would have played in a town with a mediocre coach and program with kids that pick up their sticks once every spring. Having said that is the "elite" travel thing a major money maker? Absolutely! Are there multiple teams in an age bracket that will never compete on a high level nor get looks from colleges? Absolutely. The Three Villages and West Islips don't see the merit in travel teams. They don't have to. They have enough talent and enough parents with knowledge of the game to mandate loyalty to the local program. Some will balk at that. Especially if their child does not get adequate playing time. Those that stay with their town team and get playing time are thrilled they don't have to pay thousands of dollars per year to pad the retirement of some director from a team named after their jersey number. If you live in, for example, West Islip, 3V, Manhasset, Smithtown, SWR (with Rotanz), etc be grateful you have lacrosse people in your community (including parents). If you in a community more known for baseball, then you are most likely going to have to go the outside travel team route and deal with all the politics there, and pay $5k (with travel expenses) on top of it. There is no one answer to this craziness. The days of just playing in season and trying out for the Empire State team is over. We, as parents created this because we think our children should be offered more than they are. If my father was asked for thousands of dollars to play travel lacrosse, he would have told me, you need therapy, now go outside and play.

You say,

“The Three Villages and West Islips don't see the merit in travel teams.”

The Facts say otherwise.

Three of the five Directors of the LI Express live in 3V.
Three Village / Ward Melville kids have been playing for the express and other club teams for many years.
3V / Ward Melville kids who have already graduated from college played for club teams.
Many of the 3V / WM kids currently playing in college played for the express and other club teams.
Current 3V/WM Varsity Players have played for club teams.
Many of this years JV players currently play for club teams.
Many current 3V /JHS players play for club teams.
Current and past Board Members have their kids currently playing club lacrosse.

It is nothing new for 3V kids to play club lacrosse.

It is only a few of the board members who do not see the merit in it.

I love reading about these "programs." Let's not kid ourselves. The most successful programs have parents and coaches who know the game. They talk to their sons in the car, and know what they are talking about. They go in the back yard and work on throwing and catching. Catching with soft hands and throwing with their non-dominant hand. Moving without the ball. If you live in a town with many of these parents, you have a better shot of the program being reasonably successful for a long period of time. If the town you live in has parents who don't know the game, then you have mothers yelling at little Johnny to run through the entire defense and shoot. In those situations, more times than not the coaches kids are the best players and everyone else is wondering why roll dodging the entire opposing team which worked so well in 3rd grade, no longer works in 6th.

Here is my perspective, being an ex-college player, youth coach, high school coach, parent and not living in a community with a strong lacrosse tradition. "Elite" travel teams have merit. They bring together kids from different communities that are serious about playing lacrosse. These are the kids that attend camps, clinics and are most likely to play wall ball on their own. Do the high school elite "A" teams get extra exposure and looks by colleges? They do. Especially if these kids would have played in a town with a mediocre coach and program with kids that pick up their sticks once every spring. Having said that is the "elite" travel thing a major money maker? Absolutely! Are there multiple teams in an age bracket that will never compete on a high level nor get looks from colleges? Absolutely. The Three Villages and West Islips don't see the merit in travel teams. They don't have to. They have enough talent and enough parents with knowledge of the game to mandate loyalty to the local program. Some will balk at that. Especially if their child does not get adequate playing time. Those that stay with their town team and get playing time are thrilled they don't have to pay thousands of dollars per year to pad the retirement of some director from a team named after their jersey number. If you live in, for example, West Islip, 3V, Manhasset, Smithtown, SWR (with Rotanz), etc be grateful you have lacrosse people in your community (including parents). If you in a community more known for baseball, then you are most likely going to have to go the outside travel team route and deal with all the politics there, and pay $5k (with travel expenses) on top of it. There is no one answer to this craziness. The days of just playing in season and trying out for the Empire State team is over. We, as parents created this because we think our children should be offered more than they are. If my father was asked for thousands of dollars to play travel lacrosse, he would have told me, you need therapy, now go outside and play.

and it is a nightmare for those town teams when the son of the coach is not the best player and the daddy coach still thinks he is. We went 5 years with it Putting his son in all types of positions facing off when the best f/o is pushed to the wing. Long pole when others still sat the bench in PAL.

Now with middle school around the corner lets see if politics play a role or will reality stare them in their face

Been there done that!! Middle school is an equalizer, for my son at least. Funny how now that the boys are in 10th grade, the coaches son, as well as the boys whos parents had their noses up coaches but are riding the bench, while several 2nd and 3rd stringers are D1 bound!

Been there done that!! Middle school is an equalizer, for my son at least. Funny how now that the boys are in 10th grade, the coaches son, as well as the boys whos parents had their noses up coaches but are riding the bench, while several 2nd and 3rd stringers are D1 bound!

Been there done that!! Middle school is an equalizer, for my son at least. Funny how now that the boys are in 10th grade, the coaches son, as well as the boys whos parents had their noses up coaches but are riding the bench, while several 2nd and 3rd stringers are D1 bound!

What kool aid are you drinking? Not really sure any 3rd stringers and only a few 2nd stringers are D1 bound. If that's the case sign me up for the program!

I have learned the hard way about PAL. I stuck through the town PAL program. I was fortunate enough to have one of the better players out of the grades my children were in. Each having 60+ players. But the turmoil and heart ache for both the developmental and Skilled players and families is unbelievable and that was for each grade and level boys and girls not just my children's teams or grade.

We stuck with PAL for all the right reason, so my children played with their friends, so we showed loyalty to the town, so we could be a part of helping the program grow. But looking back it was not a fun ride. Many sportsmanship ideals and values I tried to instill seem to be tested at each turn.

I wish PAL would figure out a smarter way to bridge the gap in player development and skill. No matter Suffolk or Nassau.

We are fortunate to have a positive experiences within the travel circuit on a top organization and team. Unfortunately for what I know now for a player like my son and some of his friends travel was a great outlet. I wished I had made the switch as early as 3rd grade.

For someone who has had a positive experience and would do travel earlier if I had to do all over again, I wished the HS coaches were more involved with the town youth programs, I wish and still think there is room for both town and travel youth through HS years.

I have witnessed some very good teams from the West, Maryland and Virgnia. Many of these teams are not typical travel teams but superstar travel teams. I wished LI would do that. Maybe for a week or 2. Pair up some of the better players and make 2 teams per grade and go compete with FCA and the rest. This allows our players to broaden their experiences.

Maybe some of the HS or even MS coaches can get together and try and set the stage to accomplish this. Similar to the Rising Sophs, Jrs Sr games between Nassau and Suffolk. I am not so sure how corrupt those games are as this will be our first experience within that but on its face it sounds like a great idea.

What do you think?

Were you a PAL coach ? Once upon a time; that is the last I answer of who I am.