In the last few years there has been a disturbing trend as HS coaches try and cash in on the for profit (or questionable non for profit) summer tournament teams. It started when some business minded coaches started open tryout teams, now the trend is HS coaches charging big fee's for summer teams that draw exclusively from there own school districts. How do public schools allow this type of quid pro quo to occur? Its one thing when you pay for a summer program and also pay to attend a private school which shares the same coach. Now it seems you have to pay the head coach of the public school boys/ girls teams to get on the field. The Conflicts of interest seem to run so deep yet it continues. Which program is the coach incentified to develop? The School district program or the one that pays him cash on top of their salary? How do they not play undeserving kids that have been paying them every summer? Are kids punished if they play for a competing club? This seams to be a hot topic issue in the towns these teams exist, i am interested to hear others experiences.

very interesting and insightful with any valid points. I know of HS coaches who have told players that if they play on certain travel teams they will never see the field. This lax world is crazy

My town has 2 high schools and one just formed a "travel team" last year. You are correct- one of the coaches has a tiny 9th grade kid that made varsity this year (even though he was rocked the few minutes he saw the field). There were a handful of better 9th grade kids that were clearly more qualified to make varsity but didnt. Politics at its best. I agree that its a huge conflict of interest but its been happening in our baseball travel program for years as well. Pay to play in off season.

Where have you been?? This has been going on for years - YJ's has it down to a science, CGI baseball, aau basketball. It's called pay to play. Try living in Northport and playing girls lax for liberty or top guns and see what happens. You're 100% correct none of these school coaches should be allowed to gauge their students in the summer travel circuuit, but that's just the way it is and has been for a long time.

what about a HS coach that wants his kids to play together in the summer to make the school team better and does it foe expense money? these school teams seem to be less money then the for profit teams and the HS team is the real benefactor, if done properly this could be a great trend

This subject was beat to death on the YJ thread. And your right, it is a crime that it is allowed to happen, huge conflict of intrests. I don't however think its against rules as they are now written. Someone should get on that!

couldn't agree more when done properly to cover costs its a great idea. How does the school district or even the state for that matter allow coaches to make a profit off these kids by playing on the parents fears.

does YJ just draw from one town or is it an open tryout? seeing current HS coaches pressure kids to play with the town during the summer then charging them as if they are these open tryout teams is insane. and if you don't play for them? what happens then.

The HS coaches use these plattforms to make money as well. Don't be fooled!!

It should not be allowed.

No, this club is massive. Pretty much every town team or school district team you can find some or many players that are on some sort of YJ team. But that's not where the problem is, the problem is the reverse. Again since it is such a massive club, they have massive amounts of coaches, many of whom are coaches for school teams. And the YJ's are not the only club with coaches guilty of this. You can say and think what you want about this, but there is no question it puts kids in very awkward situations (kids playing for other clubs). The most obvious case is to cite Northport, but it goes way beyond that. I actually like the idea of a school team forming a travel team to go play the summer tournaments with the school coach. It would make for some tough tournaments and there is no way the school team would pry away the top players from commitments to the summer club teams. It's near immpossible to put together a highly competitive team drawing from one town, so the model may work for strengthening a school program but will never yeild a competitive tournament team. What I would like to see come out of this is that the school districts prohibit coaches from "paid" involvement of any kind in the sport in which they are hired to coach.

I have stated this before on other threads, but I think it's worth repeating. My daughter plays for St John The Baptist, and the coach is involved with the L.I. Wave (in case you don't know girls they are second rate and non competitive) this woman treats all other club members poorly, berating them for every little mistake and screaming at them, while her club players are spoken to and treated with kid gloves. It is a very toxic situation if you don't play for the wave. I called the school administration and they did nothing siting it's at the coaches discretion. What makes this worse is I pay $8,000.00 a year for this.

I understand the YJ is a very competitive club like the Express on the boys side. I guess you can say what you want but they both field strong teams and offer a good product. What happens when the town team is not competitive and the pressure is there to stay? How and where do you challenge the best kids if they are stuck on a poor town team for summer and parents are getting charged like its a top level club? In philly the town summer teams rarely charge much over costs unlike the open tryout club teams

Have a hidden recorder and get it on record that if your son doesn't play for the school or town summer travel he will not see the field , then sue the school and the coach. It's getting out of hand. Happening in a lot of towns

That's attacking the problem from the bottom, better off attacking it from the top. Voice concerns and compllaints to sextion XI and get them to make this against the rules. Anyone can see the conflict of intrest here, if someone has the time and interest to persue it, I'm sure it would have an impact.

"The coach is involved with the L.I. Wave (in case you don't know girls they are second rate and non competitive)"

I have no idea of the situation at that school but to say the wave players are second rate and non-competitive obviously is coming from someone who does not know the program or the girls very well

I think half the problem is that the expectation of kids playing on certain teams "or else" is implicit. Maybe I'm wrong, and tell me if I am, but are coaches outright telling kids/parents that if they don't play on X team then they won't see playing time on the school team?

It's hard to attack something deniable. That just turns into he said/she said, with the coach claiming that Y kid doesn't play because he's/she's not as good as the player on the coach's club team.

The wave plays in b divisions. They are well known as a place for girls who can not make other clubs.

Unfortunately , I like the other parent know the Wave all too well . We pay big money to play with there players and coach and lost to teams we should have beat.

"The wave plays in B divisions. they are well known as a place for girls who can not make other clubs".I hope this quote is not from an adult

There is a clear conflict of interest and it is shameful that we allow it to happen.

Why is it not true?

That fact that can even be a discussion about the motive tells you it is an improper situation. It puts the kids in a very uncomfortable position. I have seen similar situations in soccer where the school AD allowed school coach to coach/train for $ on the outside, but was prohbited training and coaching kids from that district. That was one districts solution to a bad problem. Maybe each AD should take a look at this as a solution, although I feel it should be enforced on an even higher level.

I give credit for that AD on taking a stand. Most of these Coaches are well entrenched within the district and most AD and school administrators turn a blind eye to the situation. what is the higher level? local section as mentioned earlier or state.

This instance was brought about internally where other coaches looking to get in or replace coach were squaking to the AD. It was an easy agreement between that coach and AD because the teams and players he was working with were from other towns anyway. So it was more of a don't take any from the school district, so it wasn't any really big stand by the AD. But at least it proves the point that this type of cross relationship is in conflict.

How can it be stopped?

Global Thermonuclear War

It can't, none of the powers that be have any interest in stopping it!

What's worse is when a High School coach runs a camp and 7th grade kids who attend the camp are brought up to the 8th grade team over kids who didn't attend the camp even though they're better. Further, kids are brought up to JV based on being "evaluated" at camp, and kids who don't attend the for profit camp who are the better kids are black balled. This goes on in Syosset with the boys, Varsity coach makes big money on his camp and then runs a summer team for the high school and does it through his business, not the booster club and makes close to $15,000 off the kids. It's really gross!!

part with the benjamins if you want your "better" kid to see the field. and after paying for camp and travel dont forget to make a "donation" to the booster club.

its the same game in every town. at least your town has a good program.

False, you need to check your facts, or bitterness

No 7th grader to date has played 8th grade
Several 8th graders have moved to JVA, some of these players have never attended the camp. Check roster for spring 2012
Varsity summer team has a separate fee payed by players for summer.
Camp is a business and open to many towns, yes it makes a profit.

I am not taking sides in this debate as I understand both sides but you can't go on here and post bombs and not get called on it. Syo has many many 7th graders that play up on 8th grade, I do not know about last year but the year before almost half the 8th grade team at SWMS were 7th graders. Maybe some of the kids that get moved up also happened go to this camp but were also better then other kids. this program has a long history of moving up kids at all grade levels and this was going on before the HC was even there and also before the camp go started. don't be hating because the staff doesn't think your kid has developed or matured enough to play up just tell your kid to work harder and his time will come. SYO has a kid starting at an Ivy who played 8th in 8th. JVB in 9th, JVA in 10th and made All American in 12th while another kid in the same grade got moved up to JVA in 9th and did not even play his senior year. Oliver Stone is not making a movie about the Syo lacrosse program, not every decision is a conspiracy sometimes kids just get moved up, maybe to fill a void on the older team or maybe he is just physically more mature. Syo girls consistently have 9th graders starting on varsity and the HC does not run a camp or a Summer team.

this is no different than parents taking their kids to YJ directors camps in the summer in hopes of currying favor on their YJ teams.

Fill the coaches pockets with "camp money" and then you move up in the team batting order.

Its FOR PROFIT PEOPLE!

Huge difference - YJ is a choice, particularly if you do not go to NP. A public school coach running a team exclusively for the town kids and putting pressure on the kids to only play with the town summer team that he or she is making a profit on is not the same as a kid paying to go to YJ camp to help the chances of getting on a better YJ team.

Just to clarify one thing, Kids are NOT moved up to JV when in 8th grade because they attended the Syosset HS coach's camp! This past year, not one kid that was moved up from 8th grade to JV, attended the camp. Many High School coaches across Long Island coach their own HS team during the summer and hold camps. Look at Wading River. Their coach has been coaching their HS team during the summer and has been holding camps for years. Look where they ended up! Playing in the State Championship. Why shouldn't HS coaches be any different then those who start or coach select teams for a fee. I believe this year the Express is charging $1500 for what? If you are not on their top team, you are just money to them. Personally, I feel select teams do nothing but hurt HS teams. Players tend to become individual players instead of team players. Why...because they think College coaches are watching. This carries over to the regular HS season. Want to be recruited by a college coach? Contact the Coach, send a clip of yourself playing AND tell the coaches where and when you are playing. 100s of college coaches come watch the County Finals. That's where you can prove yourself!

YELLOW JACKETS...its not just a club ...its a lifestyle !

Mom - I think you might be missing the point, most would agree that keeping the high school team together is advantageous to the program but forcing kids (either directly or implied) to play on a for profit team owned by the coach and feeling that there are ramifications to not playing could be seen by some as a conflict of interest. interesting that you bring up express, please tell us if our kid is on fl$ is that OK with you? or express orange is OK but not express blue?

A summer travel team is just a lot more FUN then the pressure of playing for your varsity coach all summer. playing with kids from your rival towns, or kids that you played PAL with that are now going to parochial schools or playing games against your friends and current HS teammates, getting a different set of eyes on you and hearing a different coach's voice. this all adds to the entire "travel" experience. It is a little crazy that the only reason we are all doing this is the scholarship and entrance into the Ivy League school at some point it has to be fun or it eventually becomes a job for these kids.

The towns that your are probably thinking of run their summer programs through their booster club, the price is enough to pay for tournaments, pay the coaches appropriately for coaching, and a summer uniform. NOT charging close to $900 and collecting through a private business and pressuring kids to play so the profit goes up! Most towns run their camp through the youth league,NOT Syosset, HC makes big money, town, booster club, sees nothing!

Momlax - i don't really think that a HS coach should profit off the kids, but I'm reading this because it's interesting to see people try to defend it, pretty pathetic. But what I really wanted to say was, if you think that you can send a clip of yourself to a college coach and he'll come watch you play, you're sadly mistaken about the process. College coaches go to big recruiting events, a few probably attend County Championship but vast majority of recruiting is done at showcase tourneys, and tryouts for things like Under Armour.

I feel compelled to respond, which I never have at this site, I just read and laugh. You must not be from Syosset, every year a 7th Grader is moved up, some years 5 or more.

The kids who get moved up to JV-A all atteneded the camp at some point.
Of course the Summer Team has a seperate fee, and it's a check made out to the Head Coach's business not the booster club or Sylax, check other towns and you'll see it is run quite different.
Don't defend it, just accept it like everyone else does...

Funny you should say Under Armour, isn't true that one of the Express founders is in charge of picking who's on the team. And really, beside this past year, what percentage of the players selected did not attend a catholic school. It's amazing to me how you all respond Anonymously, what's there to hide.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that those who have been moved up at some point attended the camp. But face the facts, no one is forcing you to attend and if your kid is that good, he needs not to attend the camp. Get over it! And PS tell me what HS coach doesn't make money off their HS summer team.

In response to you, college coaches do look at clips and yes you're right, you must attend big recruiting tournaments, and camps. However, how else are they going to know who you are if you don't send them a clip of yourself and tell them what camps you are attending? As far as the Under Armour team goes, isn't it true that one of the founders of the Express is in charge of picking the team? Besides this year, what percentage of kids that are selected for the Under Armour team plays for the Express or attends Charminade or St. Anthonys? And how come no one is complaining about how much money the heads for the Express are making. Aren't they HS coaches in some capacity?

All I am saying is let's look at some of the HS teams that have played together over the summer...West Islip, Shoreham Wading River, Ward Melville, Smithtown West and Syosset. All these teams have made the County Playoffs. I believe Garden City doesn't have a HS team in the summer, but they do stay together on a travel team. You tell me what works??

You want to have the travel team experience then go to recruiting camps at the middle school high school level. At least there you are coached by College coaches. My experience with travel teams is that Coaches (organizations) want to win! I have seen organizations add players just to win so they can post it on their website. What does this do to the younger player's self-esteem? And just to let you know, if you play for a D-1 program it is a job! One that your kids will be working 12 hour days. Can your kid handle it?

It doesn't matter what travel team your kid plays on, college coaches are looking for kids entering HS. College coaches aren't stupid. They know all the BS that goes on with all summer teams. Ask any top 20 D-1 college coach what they are looking for in a player and they will all have different opinions. Why...because they all have different needs. We should all encourage our kids to do their best and hope that a college they are interested in has a need for them. For all players, go to recruiting camps and send a game tape to all colleges you are interested in. Please let me know how you make out!

Dont be fooled, playing sports on any level is like a job d1, 2 or 3!

There you go!!! It's a job wherever you go!

I think there are major conflicts of interest on both sides of the fence:
1. HS Coaches coaching travel teams
2. HS Coaches coaching "town" teams

1. Our HS coaches "recruit" kids for their travel programs. They make it abundantly clear that if you play for their club it will help you. Imagine if you were a HS teacher who ran a tutoring business on the side and said - "if you get tutored by me, you will have a much better chance of improving your grades in my class." It's such a conflict of interest and puts the kids and the families in a no win situation. Much more prevalent on the girls side.

2. Our HS has a rule about coaches not be ing able to use our HS facilities for training or coaching their own student athletes. This rule is broken on a daily basis by coaches who are training their own athletes in the off season. First of all, I thought it was a rule that summer teams were not allowed to be coached by existing coaches. This is happening at our school. Much more prevalent on the boys side.

Coercion (�/koʊˈɜrʃən/) is the practice of forcing another party to behave in an involuntary manner (whether through action or inaction) by use of threats or intimidation or some other form of pressure or force. In law, coercion is codified as the duress crime. Such actions are used as leverage, to force the victim to act in the desired way. Coercion may involve the actual infliction of physical pain/injury or psychological harm in order to enhance the credibility of a threat. The threat of further harm may lead to the cooperation or obedience of the person being coerced

Last I read this is a felony and punishable by imprisonment maybe the AD should get involved or school board.

Unfortunately the AD is involved and has been made aware of the situation on both the girls and boys side. He has done nothing and neither has the Superintendent of Schools. My fear is that the coaches who are also teachers are all part of the union and are "untouchable." This issue has effected both of my sons and my daughter.

THEY MADE A MOVIE ABOUT THIS ITS CALLED BAD TEACHER WITH CAMERON DIAZ!!! PAY FOR TUTORING which will go for her cosmetic surgery and then you will pass the class.... she guarentees it! Sounds like LI Lacrosse

As a travel coach I have made it a point to "stay out of the way" of HS or middle school "time", meaning all practices during the spring season were either late in the day or on Sundays and ALWAYS encouraged my players, when their was a conflict, to attend the school events...with that being said, the summer is OURS and while the athletes can/should/may play both, I would hope the HS coaches provide the same encouragement to their players who continuously get better playing with the elite teams and whose opportunities for recruitment exponentially increase DURING the summer when college coaches actually have time to visit these events.

Come on, the reality of being on two teams leads to undo pressure, the players at these ages are so torn as to which to do (when there is no right team to pick).

In some cass it hurts the player's development, for others they thrive.

You need to know which one your child is. God knows they have enough to deal with entering puberty.

Dear Judy bloom which team practcie shoudl I attend@@@.

At least when it is a school coach certain conflicts are taken out of the equation.

I have two Northport sons who play for Team Tiger. Our school summer tournament team is sooooo competitive that in UMass they took the championships in almost every age group including our Varsity team. In the Noreaster tournament our only team competing took the championship against some of the best select teams there are. It's funny that with twenty minutes into the game, one of our boys scored a hat strick (3 goals) against Express. We have a great program THAT WORKS and it's extremely competitive, local and virtually free!!! What could be better than that! LET'S GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!

The school coaches have the kids almost all year. Can't the summer be the time they play with the other players from the select team?

There is clearly a conflict of interest and it should not be allowed.

Club Team Vs Town Team is a separate debate. The decision of what team to play for should be made by the players and their parents. The best interest of the child should be the driving force in the decision process and there should be no pressure from a high school coach.

I would hope that HS coaches would support the player knowing that he/she is committed to being the best they can be. Our HS team is priority, their practices and tournaments take precedence, but if a player has the opportunity to advance their level of play with a program that will allow them to do so, they should be able to do this without any ill feelings from coaches and HS team mates. Hard work and dedication is what should be recognized, as this is what builds character! The player obviously wants to learn and advance, trust me, they do not believe they are better than anyone else!

It is wrong for a high school coach to coerce a child to play for a high school / town team during the summer.

Restricting a players development is wrong.

Are you people saying that these H.S. coaches believe they can force a player to be on a summer team and then charge large sums of money for a mediocre lacrosse experience. These guys need to be exposed !

Does it work? When was the last time NP won a county championship? Are boys being recruited in mass to attend div I programs? I think this is the exact issue, town teams enter (with all due respect) weak tournaments finish strong in their brackets and are convinced that its working. Do your sons teams play the top express, 91, outlaws, etc teams in their age bracket? How does the program measure success?

It's rare when a town team can compete with the top tier travel teams. However that's not to say there isn't a place for the town programs. But if your son or daughter is fortunate enough to compete at a high level, then the town program is not for you. As far as HS coaches being paid to coach a town team, all it takes is one lawsuit and it will stop. That goes for the coach run camps as well.

No 7th grade Syo player was moved up this year

I hate to tell you but you don't have to play for a big select team to be recognized as a top lacrosse player and if you have a stand-out athlete he will shine on any field he is on. You could pay and pay but it your child doesn't have it, it doesn't matter. Let's face it, recruiting for a college is on an individual basis. You got it, you're invited, end of story.

I concur. We are going through the recruiting process right now (2015). My son is considered very good at his position and plays for the top team at a high profile club. That said the recruiting process is still "every man for himself" even with the support of his club and school coaches. To find a combination of academics, location, coach, lax conferenoce, school size etc is a very personal and individualistic process. The worst mistake is to have your son give in to coordinating with and following his high school or club buddies to every prospect day. That is a recipe for making a huge mistake and a kid not discovering a fit that really works for him individually with the hope of continuing playing with his hs friends in college. He will be passing up great opportunities while trying to follow his friends and will regret it too late. Best advice I have to set your kid up for success is to be realistic about where your kid is academically and start from there. You dont want your kid to fail out of an ivy or NESCAC and in the process ruin his lax experience. Follow your own path and think differently from the herd and your kid will have a much easier process and a better end result.

My son plays on a 3 year old travel team coached by the dad of a teammate, he is a phys ed guy at a neighboring district and once in a while the varsity coach makes an appearance. The problem is we have over 25 boys and pay $750 for 4 local tournament and 1 away (NJ). The coach and his annoying chatterbox whiny wife are connstantly claiming they dont make any money from this when clearly they do. They also allow anyone on the team-two kids still cant run and catch. You get what you get and you dont get upset...

Did anyone else misread this statement at 1st:

"My son plays on a 3 year old travel team"

I got that the team was started three years ago

I didn't get it until I re-read it. I first thought it was a team of 3yos, and assumed it was another spoof of lacrosse parents.

yet you stayed for the 2nd and 3rd year - this may sound like a silly idea but consider finding another team, and good luck finding that $750 5 tournament team. Is your son having fun? making friends? getting better at lacrosse? those things seem a little more important then how much PE coach is pulling in off the $750 he is charging.

It is wrong and it should not be allowed. No player should be coerced into playing for a particular team.

I guess I look at this slightly different , I think it's great when the local coach puts in the effort to make the team better. It's a significant amount of work and for 750 , there's not much in making money there. Yeah maybe the coaches are getting paid, but they're not getting rich. Probably 1-2k for the whole season per coach. 2 practices a week and 4 weekend tournaments, probably getting 20 an hr.

Now these 25 kids, some who will never make another travel team get to play together. It's much better for the school program then the top 2 kids playing with a travel team with kids from 10 different towns.

What will be a bigger accomplishment , Li championship with all your high school buddies or winning the tristate with 20 different families ?

They both serve a purpose, playing with and improving your HS team is very important but also playing with the same kids for 10 months a year and hearing the same coaches yelling for 3-4 years as well as playing against the same kids who may not be as good as your kid may not improve a "Better" player as much as playing with a summer select team with outstanding competition in both practices and games. The best scenario for these players would be to try and do both and balance it as best you can. if you can make it work

I agree, both teams serve their purpose. Not necessarily a bad thing when the coach tries to keep the town together and offers a travel team to all level of players.

If only we could all make this work.

How about this, since there is limited field space. Practice for town teams on certain days and travel on others. Play travel games on the 1st and 3rd weekend of a month and town on ONE of the other weekends. (or visa versa).

Play with your town friends and play with new boys. What a concept.

Here is the true reality. More lacrosse is GOOD for all players. If your coach is preventing your child from playing with other teams, it is time to find a new team.

Do you mean find a new high school? That's the issue here, school coaches leveraging their position to cash in on summer travel teams, camps etc. - it's called pay to play, whether it's CGI baseball and St. Anthony's school team or Northport HS and Yellow Jackets lax, it's everywhere and it puts unfair pressure (both financial and emotional)on far too many people and frighteningly enough it starts at 10 years old in some cases

Agreed , but is there a FREE option ! No matter where you play or who your child plays for, there is a cost involved. However if the H.S. Coach is running the program perhaps there might be some cost control. The coach may not be able to fleece your pocketbook in fear of being spoken about to the school district.

Hello. Both of my boys play Northport and we love it. The cost is 1/3 of the traditional travel teams. The are playing very competitively and my sons are growing as players by leaps and bounds. Sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side. Also, there is a wonderful feeling of community which cannot be surpassed. Both of my boys have made in the past the best travel "A" teams there are so I think as long as it is a positive experience and your sons are up to their fullest potential -- then you're a winner.

Hello, you are correct about the cost control in HS Lax, but is the coaching in a public school as qualified as any of the big clubs? Maybe so, in some cases, but if you have a widely acclaimed "high end" coach at your childs level, why play down? It sounds stuffy, but winning at a high level with the town kids just is not happening. The town kids ARE important to play with, however, as friendships and sense of community matter more than some realize. It is a tough call, but depends more upon your individual town/ pay for play situation.
I am sure that there are some folks who will cite St. Anthony's and Chaminade as opportunities for "the best of both worlds" status. This may be so to some, but many are also truly satisfied with their public school for many reasons, and seek the "looks" for their child through private competition. There is not one "correct" scenario, but each individual family must assess.
PS- This IS a family undertaking, not to be forgotten! Enjoy

Heres a thought - chew on this a bit!


21 players (2G 5A 9M 5D) @ $750 = $15,750 budget for a team.

For $750 you get.
4 tournaments @ avg $1,500 = $6,000.
$4,000 for coaches
(Divide that by 21 players = $475 a player.)
uni/swag another $75 a player
balls and stuff another $50 a player
Donation to school HS team $50 a player
6 dates of a faceoff clinic (max 10 players per team) $35 a player
6 dates of a goalie clinic (max 2 players) $35 a player

If your town has a competitive team why not (as long as there are not any dads coaches qualified or not)!!

Please explain the obsession with playing with a town. Why not encourage the kids to play at the highest level possible. Sounds like the town folk want to hold the best kids back.

Keep the high school coaches out of the summer. If they cant win with the time they have during the year so be it.

It is wrong for High School Coaches or Town Programs to coerce children into playing for them.

Just curious, are the Town Teams open to everyone or do they have Tryouts and cuts?? How about at the youth level?? do the town teams cut kids? do they have "A" ,"B" and "C" Teams?

There are more B, C, and D Players than there are "A" players.

The Parents of the B, C, and D players want their kids to play with the "A" players and the only way that can happen is if the "A" players stay at home.

An "A" player staying home helps the Town/HS Team but it does not help the Player.

The Bottom Line is: "Its wrong for a high school coaches and town programs to to coerce children into playing for his summer team".

If a high school coach thinks he has what it takes to compete against the club organizations then he should quit his Job "coaching job". He should go and compete on the open market. Without coercion, how many would be able to compete????

I was chewing until the "no dad" things surfaced. Why the hate for the guy whom loves the sport and has a son to enjoy it with? Why? Not ALL dad coaches may be the best, but not ALL cops are bad, not ALL banking execs are coke hounds, etc. Rationality went out the window. I hope i am misreading.

Hello,
Exactly my point. Northport is a minority, meaning that not many towns can boast strong support of their lacrosse program, and true concern for keeping the kids playing in-town, for their high school as well. A valid point made by a prior post refers to the high school with a weaker team, or the school administration brushing off a lax program as unimportant. Your situation is great to hear about, but not the case in a great many districts with weaker programs, but having kids enthusiastic about furthering their involvement to higher levels.
Enjoy

This is a great idea, which hardly works in reality. Changing practice schedules spread among an entire roster can not work, considering the spread of seperate localities on one team. How many times have we seen a coach at the end of a practice,trying to align the next practice with 20 kids? First, the kids do not know the schedule for the next week. Next, the coach sets his schedule for a tentative date, then the email chain changes it all. You get it. Been there? It all seems to be about that "balance". We try to do what's best for the kid's perfomance, attempt to keep it enjoyable, consider that some college help is possible, maintain association with school peers, etc.
We HAVE seen kids and their parents simply DUMP the PAL for greener pastures, but they tend to teach the kid to jump ship in any situation. We have also seen what staying involved in your town can bring to aid in many other satisfying experiences as well. Balance... may be different for each family or district.

Please send your concept to Three Village.

What concept?

there are many towns thinking your concept at 3v is working. Are you saying it isn't? No system is perfect, but please help. What is done there?

West Islip same thing?
Smith town
Garden City
Manias set
Farmingdale
Syosset

Everyone throws out:
Is it understood for grades below x, you do whatever you want then above x you do,what the school coaches "prefer". Unless of course you're going to send your children to catholic schools. Is this true?


I look to the left banner and see a bunch of towns with great history.

It can't all be the gene pool, there has to be a system.

The town/school teams that have great programs are dedicated to making it a program in which the student/athlete has committed coaching that provides an opportunity for them to thrive. These districts are notorious for having superb programs where the parents and athtletes are committed to backing the programs up!!!! Coaching + support = outstanding programs........Not every district has such a wonderful opportunity and I believe in these districts there isn't much time to play with a "travel team," and the athlete is committed to the school, but I also know that with a school team, there are times when an athlete advances further on the basis of who you know, not what you know.

3village has a great program for in-house and PAL. They nmade a decision that if a child wanted to play travel lax on the 3v team, the child could not also participate on one of the elite teams. Their slogan--one town one team.

That worked for many years, however, the last few years have seen large defections from some of the younger teams. The current 6th, 7th and 8th grade 3v travel teams have been decimated. Kids and coaches have left the program to participate in the elite world--gladiators, express, 91...

The result is that these 3v teams cannot compete in the A bracket of tournaments any longer. they are now plauying in B brackets or town team only tournaments.

For the older grades-9th, JV and varsity-those teams were able to keep most of their kids and are still playing at a very high level.

So what worked for a long time, is no longer working. change has come to this sport and the town teams must evolve or lose in every toutrnament...

that said, at the HS level for school ball, the best kids in 3v get to play regardless iof which travel team they are plauing for...

This is a problem across the board in all sports, not just lacrosse. Kids and their families feel tremendous pressure to play for the high school coach - but it doesn't matter. The coach wants to win and for the most part will play the better player. Now if there is a tie at the talent level then maybe the tiebreaker goes to the kid who played for the coach. On the other hand for recruiting purposes, maybe it is better to have two advocates for your child instead of just one.

High school coaches who want to keep their job as HS coaches play the best kids regardless of which jersey they wear in June and July at tournaments. Do you really think a lesser skilled player is going to play over a more skilled player because the more skilled player opted to play for an outside travel team? Not happening - coaches want to win championships and you do that with your best players on the field not on the bench.

Same thing happening in West Islip. Some grades are better than others as far as doing some tournaments, usually in the spring. Kids playing for clubs all over. They still must make committment to J.V./Varsity team first though.

Unfortunately, parents and kids as young as 10 years old are being scared into playiung for a particular travel program (lax, baseball, whatever) or risk being alienated at a later age - trust me it happens all the time, I know of several instances first hand of this happening and that's the big problem

Good luck with that. The people at US Lax can't even organize a roster like PAL football has had for a decade. This would allow opposing coaches to see a photo ID of each player before a game. That would prevent clubs from borrowing players, or having nephews from out of state play on your team when the tourney brings you down that way!

Please tournaments are not leagues, rosters are not locked in stone in Sept. however, rosters do need to be submitted but whats to say they put the out of state player on the official roster, what then.

Is US Lacrosse going to say my child or nephew can only play on one team. No because becuase that would not be in the best interest of the child or the sport. Why stop a child who wants to play with their friends as well as with others every once in a while..

Long Island Junior Soccer League strictly prohibits a player from participating on more than one team, this I know first hand, having a child who plays up a year on a very competitive team and also wanted to play with his friends on a team his age and the answer from [lacrosse] was a simple "NO" and a follow up to them asking why was answered with a "because we said so"

Yeah and in some parts of the country you cannot play soccer for your schools.

The United States Youth Soccer Association (USYSA) is the Long Island Junior Soccer League's ([lacrosse]'s) sanctioning body from the US Soccer Federation (USSF).

USYSA is quite clear that player passes are allocated to a player for one seasonal year (August 1st to the following July 31st) and names a player to be part of one specific club/town and one specific team. Yes, a player pass ties that player to a given team - not to a given club, but to the specific team within the club.

For tournaments, players can play for another team but only with the proper paperwork filed for a player loan; that paperwork must be executed by both the sending and receiving clubs.

For league play, a player cannot participate for two different teams under the USYSA/[lacrosse] pass system.

You seem to pooh pooh the idea. You DO cite an instance of good intent, which is fine by most, if not all. However, why allow teams to pick up heavy hitters because they know that a rival club is in the same bracket, etc.? How noble is it to select a team, practice it, and field it? I am thinking that the kid who is looking for some extra play time is a guise for holding off the eventual ID verification. The sme coaches who seem to show up with duplicate jersey numbers at tourneys, or new faces/ foreign helmets usually justify dodging ID checks using the same scenario stated in your post. I guess that it's too much to stick to a roster for commitments sake.

I am assuming you are bringing up the soccer analogy to show how you should only play for one lacrosse team and not play on a summer select team. However, LIJSoccer League DOES allow players to play on a summer select team-ODP. Serious soccer players can play during the summer with different teammates at a more competitive level. [lacrosse] is not trying to hold back players that love the game and want to improve their skills. This is no different for players that want to play summer lacrosse with a different coach and group of kids. It's a good life experience.

I am good with an ID card. I never said my child or nephew were playing down, not at all. They just like playing with each other and each like playing with the others friends from home.

I would hope and see no reason for someone to take that away.

Not to divert from Lacrosse to Soccer, but ... (yes, diversion coming) ...

Any players on the [lacrosse]/ODP teams use their club team passes from the [lacrosse] as a summer "loan" player. However, with more "premier" teams continuing play through the summer months, participation in [lacrosse]/ODP has taken a serious quality and participation level hit.

Diversion ended.

A couple of folks seem to be skirting the issue which I have brought up. Some teams grab heavy hitters,(hired guns, sharpshooters, etc.) to affect the outcome of tourneys. They are NOT bringing the kids along to ensure that they have more fun. When your team trains to compete against a team, a couple of these......
OH, I get it! Your team does this!?
Sometimes I don't catch on too quickly

Like everything in life, all coaches whether it be a travel coach or HS coach has their favorites. Do you think a travel team that we are playing with has two kids to put into Blue Chip and one will be my son or will it be his son and his son's best friend? There are politics in every situation. I think that as long as it works for your son and your family, it's an all around win!!

Hope you all have a great fall lax season.

You are right about the best players will play regardless of where they play in this summer. Every coach wants to win. But, I also think that some school teams are very competitive. Have you ever seen Smithtown West or Northport play in a tournament? They compete and win with the very best. There is no right or wrong answer.

Probably two is better than one.

We are also a soccer family and the rules are much more strict than lacrosse.

great topic. wish we had this problem. our district wont give the town league the time of day even when asked.the ad and the coaches do as little as possible to help their feeder program. no school gyms very limited field space and no preasence at games or practices. it is a shame because many boys play away from the district at a very high level. by the way we are a large district with 2 high schools

Hmmmmmmmmm, wonder what district you are speaking of, 2 high schools, we can elimate the fact that you are referring to Sachem they have 2 high schools, but their athletic programs are outstanding, what other district has 2 high schools in Suffolk County?????????????

Who said it was Suffolk?

There is a conflict of interest.

In addition to the conflict of interest:

There will be negative consequences for Long Island Lacrosse Players if the HS Coaches and Town Team Proponents continue to coerce players into playing exclusively with their PAL / Town / HS Summer Teams.

If it is Nassau it is Great Neck, Valley Stream or Levittown, those are the districts with two high schools, a few have more then two but which lacrosse town are you talking about, my guess is Great Neck

wow suprised to see so many 2 school districts in nassau. hope the problem isnt widespread. how about it does your hs do enough to keep your son or do you look at it as a 8 game season than go to bigger /better. by the way who said it was on long island?

Hills? Two high schools, one lax team...

I believe there are potential negatives and positives to having the HS coach run a summer program.

Poitives: Keeping the teams playing together makes the boys know exactly what thier teamates will do on the field. It can make an average team play at a much higher level. A team that plays selflessly and together can beat teams with higher caliber players. Also, it builds team unity and district pride. Further, if done right it can yeild serious results. We all know the HS teams that play together in the summer. They are the same ones that compete for Championships almost every year. SWR, WI, etc...

Negatives: The cost to the individual player is most likely going to be the middle tier kid on any given team. A kid like this may be constantly pidgeon holed into a back up role. If they never get the chance to play against the tough competition or get an opportunity to be the "guy", they never grow. This is especially true at the middle school and JV level. At least at an outside club they might have a chance to improve away from the microscope of the School coach. I have seen kids go off and play summer ball with a club, come back and really catch the School coaches eye.

Not sure what the ansewer is? Perhaps you try and do both. If your son is not getting playing time over the summer with his school coaches team, he surely will not get it in the spring!!! If this is the case, who cares if you [lacrosse] the school coach off. It won't matter anyway.

Any truth to the rumors certain towns use certain clubs (or dads) to separate the talent levels In 4/5/6 grades before they go to up ms where the hs coach has some say?

Great topic...how do you handle the HS Coach who requests that kids play with the HS team thru the summer tournament schedule and if you do not, you are told it will impact your play time when school ball comes around ? I have had to address this with my son who plays at a high travel level with Express and as a 9th grader should not have to face this issue from the HS Coach. We do not come from a strong HS program, and the exposure with Express is much greater. Open to your comments

Unfortunately, this exact scenario is very common and will probably affect my son in another couple years...

Stay with the travel team and the coach that knows how to get the most for his players. If your son is that good- they will play him- because the HS wants to win- that is their bottom line. If he gets less playing time- their loss- he will still get his share on the travel team and then some fun with his town friends at the HS. Best of luck to your son.

Hills has a great progam, I think this post about the 2 high schools was referring to a weaker program....

I would have to say play with Express for the summer.

Thank you for the comment. That is the road i planned on taking, good to get some other feedback

This trend has reached a new level in Ward Melville. For years, the youth program has said if you play outside of our 3 village program you can�t play on the town travel team. That was fine and everyone understood their options. Some families stayed with the town program, but some also left for select teams like express, 91 team LI...The families that left generally have either really good players that wanted more competition than town team tournaments, or players that weren�t as strong that weren�t getting playing time on the town team. It was sad that the teams lost players and the boys lost the opportunity to practice and play with their friends, but generally it worked out ok for all.

Now, at the HS travel level they have two teams-Green and Gold (JV and Varsity) being coached by HS coaches. At the recent try-outs, there were approximately 100 boys for roughly 50 spots. There were several boys trying out that had previously played on select teams (all whom are now very strong players). Having talked to some of those families I learned that they were trying out to make sure the HS coaches knew their kid existed�

At the end of the try-out, the coaches thanked all for the boys for trying out and were pretty open about their expectations. They don�t want any Ward Melville boys playing outside of their reams. The threat is clear, play elsewhere and you have no shot at playing on the Varsity team ever. Now, for most of the boys, the threat is really nonsense as the HS varsity team rarely plays more than 12 or 13 boys during any game (except for last Q in a blowout, starters don�t leave the field). So unless you have a real shot to be one of those 12 or 13, you should tell the coach to jump off the local bridge. However, if you have a shot to be one of those, then you are in a ridiculous bind. The coaches want the boys together because they say it makes the HS team stronger and it is a fair point. But all the boys want the chance to play. So if you are one of the 12 or 13 you get looked at by colleges and have a shot to get recruited, but if your are not and only play at junk time, no one ever sees you.

The summer team plays 5 tournaments and so unless you are on of the 12 or 13, you need to get really lucky to get an opportunity for a college coach to see you do anything�It is left to each kid to figure out how to get himself recruited.

The net result in WM is that at any given time there are 10 kids that won�t see the field that would get a starting job at most other HS programs. They are giving up their shot to play and get looked at by colleges (remember D II and D III are really great options for most kids) �all to make the HS program stronger???

In my humble opinion this is a completely inappropriate use of power by a HS coach, by a school district and a complete shame. I have heard a rumor that Smithtown is making a similar threat and as a result I suspect Turtles team will also be impacted as some will choose HS team over Turtle team.

Excellent post. There are many other HS coaches trying to do the same thing. It is unfair for any kid or family to be strong armed into playing for their town team on their own FREE time. In addition, in most cases it borders on extortion. These coaches are profiting Big time! The coaches use the fear of not playing to line their pockets! There is also the issue that most of the town teams will not compete with the best travel teams. In those recruiting tournaments it is tough to be seen by college coaches when you are playing in the B bracket or consolation games on the back fields. If you are a true A player that can compete on a top travel team you may never get recruited because nobody will see you. The shame of it all is that there is another 10 months out of the year that these HS teams can build chemistry by doing clinics, leagues an tournaments! If these coaches truly have the kids best interest in mind they would want them to get as many opportunities as they can and by doing both they will have coaching diversity and their stick in their hand even more! Parents should not let their kids be bullied and make sure that they don't miss out on the opportunity for their child to play in college!

Talk to the coach and ask him point blank, if my son plays for you and not travel will he get meaningfull time? If he does not, how does he go about getting recruited ? AT least force the coach to sympathize with you so there are no hard feelings?

Whah...

Every town that has a program should do the same. Especially if you are in the same division as WM. didn't WI just do he same thing and let the 2018 boys know this is not a joke.

Ward Melville has been one of the best HS teams in the country for over 20 years so what ever they are doing works!

HS coaches will play the best players. Even if those kids aren't on their summer travel teams. Being on a club team gives a player another avenue to get college looks instead of being blackmailed by his HS coach.

Once you hit Varsity on WI thats it, no more travel teams outside of their own.

The Smithtown HS coaches have neglected the youth program for years. Now they want to reap the benefits of the Club teams. School is out in Summer and where your kid plays should be up to the consumer. If the HS coach convinces me my kid will get the best coaching, best training, best clinics, best teammates, best competition, and plenty of playing time, he might get my attention. Maybe he could throw a free helmet in too.

All this dam crying about fair and not fair. We have completely given in to the whining parent. If your kids not good enough he's not good enough that's it. Sorry if I am going to ruffle some feathers but its not PAL its not rec league where everyone get a trophy. A high school coaches career is measured on wins and losses. You win you keep your job as a coach you lose, bye bye. Thats it. Coaches,they coach and live, love the game but in the end its results. Let's put it in everyday terms for people to understand. You are in sales and work on commission you don't produce you don't have money to pay bills, and your out of a job. Do you guys get it or let's put it do you moms get it. It's not all rainbows and lollipops in the real world. Why do we think our kids are entitled it doesn't work that way.

"Free" Helemet.....that's funny

What school district do you live in??? In my district and many others I've read about here on BOTC a coach keeps his/her job until he/she steps down. It has little to do with wins and losses.

I think what the schools mentioned above is doing is wrong on a number of levels, but you assuming that the parents complaining are whining because their kid isn't good enough is missing the point. The point is about control by and making money for the HS coaches. Kids get recruited at summer tournaments by and large, not at HS games.

To the poster above with the comment about sales--

You miss the point completely. If you sell you get paid--we agree, but what if yoour boss said--you must give kickbacks to get the sale? You must take 50% of your commision check and give it to me every month after you pay your taxes otherwise you cant sell for my or my company?

You would go find another job or you would break the law and give the guy your money...

Kids cant change schools and I really dont care about the HS coach and his coaching record. I care about my kid getting a fair shake.

I will leave it to you to worry about the coach and his record and whether your HS won the state championship.

Are you still bragging about your greatest HS sports moment???

Wake up.

You are way off! This has nothing to do with crying parents. It is about HS coaches putting their pocket books ahead of the best interest of the teams and kids individual growth and opportunity.
I do believe that the issues are very different for the larger schools as opposed to the small schools. The larger schools like Ward Melville and WI the issue is you can be a very good player who doesn't crack the starting line up or has very good upperclassmen in front of you and as a 9th, 10th or 11th grader will not see the field much, thus not get an opportunity to be recruited during the summer. If you played on a very good travel team in the summer you would get the opportunity. For the smaller schools it effects the BEST kids! They generally can not put a team on the field that will compete with the best travel teams or the best HS teams, so those teams end up in B brackets and don't have nearly the quantity or quality of college coaches at the games. So those top kids would be way better off on their travel teams for the summer and playing with the town team when they can, but the HS coaches tell them they can't play both! (all about the money)!

Interesting you say Smithtown. The West coach is listed on the LI Thunder website. So does he really push kids to Team Smithtown or can they play for Thunder?

I think your arrogant and are not listening. The point is that if a kid is good enough to go D2 but cant get on the field on his HS team and then has to be play with them in summer or face retribution he will NEVER be looked at. My friends kid played at a powerhouse HS, he refused to play on their summer travel, in the end he actually sent his kid to a different HS where he started and received a big chunk of money from a D2 school. Not to mention, you thinkthe parent who lines the coaches pockets in the summer wont getter preferential treatment ?

Seems to me if you were truly being threatened or a HS coach were implying that this could effect your child's playing time, it should be brought to the attention of the school district administration and Board of Ed. I am sure this would solve any conflicts quickly.

I think the point might be that the kid IS good enough and the best situation for the kid might be to play on a select team and get better college looks then he might get on his HS team. and because WM amongst others have a very good team and the same kid might be starting as a soph on a lesser team and getting great college looks while at WM he may not play until his senior year where the best college opportunities may be gone. Chaminade might be the best example, 10th graders almost never play at Chaminade yet these boys play for various travel teams in the summer and get recruited the same kid at WM and is "encouraged" to play with the HS does not get those looks. so leaving pomposity out of it each parent must do what they think is best for their own kid and understand that there may be seen or unforeseen ramifications of that decision

Most under performing coaches are asked to step down. That has been what I have seen and been involved with. Rarely do you see changes at a succesful program. The high school coach isnt about individual play its about team play and having the players who will eventually being playing together from 9th-12th staying together in the off season. The more cohesive the team is, the better. Playing together all year is about that. The high school coach wants to win and is truly at a disadvantage because club teams are going year round and not just summer. To ensure success they are asking players and parents to commit to them. I wish my town would impliment this. Our problem is we are a smaller district and players are still deciding on baseball, soccer, and other sports so the player selection is limited. Look at Ward Melville and other High School programs that have implimented that type of strategy and the success they are having.

Thanks I am arrogant. Damm if your kid is good the coach will play them plain and simple. In real life you will face situations that you dont like like politics, nepotism etc but its how you teach your child to handle these situations. Good for your friend but most people dont have the means to do what he did. So what do you do? Work harder with Johnny and make him a better player so its impossible for the coach not to play him. Thats it. We have created a society of cry baby parents and kids that feel everyone is entitled. I feel bad for this generation of child should mom and dad go on their job interview with them because thats whats happening. If it doesent work mom and dad will fix it. Sad. You ever play D1 or Pro I have and its a dog eat dog world out there. All this A team B team even C teams at school, whats this crap about so we dont hurt anyones feelings. It teaches kids they dont have to work hard to make the varsity or JV because there will be a team for them. Please!!! parents writing town papers to complain about posting Deans list and honor roll listings because those not making it get upset. If my mom or dad ever said anything to my high school or travel coach I would be benched and my parents banned from coming to games. Thats the way it was. I feel bad for high school coaches. They are in a lose, lose situation and its only getting worse.

Wake up and get out of sales find a differnt job. If your good your good and there are plenty of opportunities for good sales people. A fair shake is fine and I understand that. You live in NY and on Long Island you want the best for your child thats why you live here. You live in a town that has a long history of lacrosse so you have your kid play lacrosse. Hes good but cant crack the starting lineup and he wants to get better so an option is play travel to get better and more exposure. Well he gets better is in 9th grade and now the coach sees him and see hes better than all his attack but wont paly him. Isnt that counter productive to his goal of winning.

As for bragging about high school, where did that come from. Did I imply or say anyhthing in my post about where I palyed or who I played for. But since you brought it up I did play D1 and Pro ball. You superstar.

Can the statement about the 2018 west islip team be explained ?

To the D-1, Pro guy-

Good for you, happy you were a success not only in the field but in sales as well.

You are classic--

Either everyone agrees with you or they are whiny parents...

Not all about you my friend. And yes, I will do whatever it takes to give my kid the best possible shot. You agree dont you? It is a dog eat dog world, put yourself in the best possible situation to increase your odds of success. Is that not what you do in sales every day? Not about winning a county championship about getting into the best possible school with the best possible education.

I really dont disagree with much of what you say, I disagree with a HS coach telling any kid he cant play if he doesnt spend 9th 10th 11th grade summers on his town travel team as oppossed to a select travel team...

WM mommys crying again....you can go back 30 years & look at the WM varsity roster & look at the breakdown of classes...it hasnt changed...by the time your soft superstar is in 11th grade, his class is down to 12-15 kids, same goes for the 12th
graders, throw in 3-4 10th graders & there you go VARSITY lacrosse. i have been out of 3 village lax for awhile but it use to be about 70-80 kids per grade 3,4,5,6. Its a funnel.
eventually each class gets filtered down to 12-15. Most people would agree that the WM lax program is one of the eleite hs programs in the country, i believe they have a 90% winning %?
(maybe off a little)with that level of success there is a challenge....ultra competitive...a program cant be that consistant for so long without the coaches doing there jobs well & unfortunately too many mommy's & dadda's want to destry it because their soft superstar isnt getting playing time!
raising your soft superstar in a perfect world bubble is a big mistake...enjoy soft johhny when he is 30yrs. old & still on your nipple...great parenting

Smithtown has similar issues, years ago the best players from Smithtown played for Smithtown youth. The talent was high and it was prestigious to make the team. The kids that didn't make it went to Express, etc. Over time many of the better players started to play exclusively for other clubs because the Smithtown Board caved to pressure and cut out many of the summer tourneys. Keeping the best town kids together is in the best interest of the overall program. Kids that don't make the cut should be free to explore their options elsewhere. Most of them don't make it for a reason and it's best to learn that early and move on to something else! This year a WM kid actually had the nerve to try to get onto team Smithtown and take a spot away from a Smithtown kid. Lasted for about 1 day!!

Again as I said before if the kid is good any coach will see that and play a player that increases his odds to win. I dont know by your posts but are you speaking from experience with this paticular issue. We all do whatever we can to provide the best of everything for our kids. A large percentage of time its a parent complaining Johnny isnt getting playing time but Johnny has not done a single iota of extra work to get better or they're the parent busy on the phone while Johnny is counting daisys in the field. They have no clue. If I am mistaken I am mistaken. The odds are slim that many kids will get a scholarship for lacrosse but lacrosse can give you the opportunity to go to a school you might not have been able to get in soley on grades. Love the game and understand that certain towns are trying to emulate what WM and WI have done over the years.

Sarcasm aside, I agree with your funnel analog but back to the question at hand...If WM has 12-15 Seniors and 12-15 Juniors and 3-4 Sophomores (and I agree with your thought process) then how does Sophomores 5-6-7-8-9 and 10 get college looks if they stay with the high school team over the summer going into 10th grade, they will probably not be on the varsity summer team but the summer going into their sophomore year is now crucial to recruiting and I think that all the original poster was saying is if as a parent you think you have the best chance to get your son college looks playing with 91 the WM why shouldn't you be allowed without re-percussion, and how does the HS coach that has a financial interest in your son playing for the school team demand that he does?

You are a schmuck...You don't deserve a response, you deserve a smack.

Put on your big boy pants and your thinking cap.

Not about you silly little man, move into the future and away from your silly little meaningless past. The world has changed and silly people like you have moved on...sounds like life beat you up pretty good. Hope you recover and get to a place of peace!

for the last time, if you can focus, it is not about winning HS championships, except for people like you who continue to trade on them for 30 years??? wow, move on.

Yes, please explain. Are they still using out of town kids ? How is that helping the school program ?

I am fed up with arrogant over-zealous coaches,and their successful programs. My kid is the best, and I built a million dollar company, and me, my kid and my ten employees will roll on down to Ward Melville, and take on the Rotanzes and anyone else who cares to show up mano-a-mano on the field. But Tim R. has to play in flip flops. Fair is fair. Otherwise, I don't care. They can even play with Power Shafts. Except Tim, who has to use a whiffle ball bat. Who are these coaches and why do they think they can tell a bunch of kids what to do? I may be a nightmare, and I may be off my meds, but I'll get all MadLax on anyone who doesn't smile when speaking to the boys. I'm a parents dream, and this is my new ambition in life.

i think u need to be realistic with your sons ability & dont get caught up with all the soph. verbal commit. info you see on the internet.The Acc schols, Hop, ND, etc. they are scooping up very young talent at the lower age brackets. But these kids are heads & tails above others right now. Most recruiting classes are 10-12 kids thats it. so let all the bigtime schools take there 10-12. It still leaves A TON of excellent lacrosse schools to consider....and many of them follow players into jr. sr. year before offering a spot.Not to mention D2 & D3 dont get going until late jr. sr. year as well.
Look at the WM goalie this year, he didn't get looked at until spring of senior year. He did it right....kicked [lacrosse] in the classroom & was accepted to a few ivy's w/o lacrosse...he was given a spot at Cornell. Collge coaches are always communicating with hs coaches and asking, what do you have coming up? and again, if your kid has that potential, his hs coach will pass that along. i would also check out individual colleges that have one day clinics...some times called prospect days...usually resonable $$ the college coaching staff
puts the players through a typical team practice & they get to see what you have. Many do these in the fall on a Sunday...worth looking into. Last remember these hs coaches spend alot of time with your kid in season..6 days a week. They put the best players on the field based on what they see
6 days a week. You as a parent arent there to see how your kid is performing. Many parents just cant handle the reality...especially some of the parents who coached at the youth level & there kid is longer a star on the school team.bottom line is that if your kid plays on a LI hs team and is
recruit level, college coaches will find him. college coaches know where & how to find players.. there job depends on it. You as a parent have to be able to accept the truth of your kids ability...& that is a major problem when its not favorable.....but thats life!

bottom line, travel teams help kids find good fits at the college level that if they played only with their school team wold never ever of happened. Nobodys bitching that their kids dont get to play on the HS team, they are upset that these HS coaches are trying to STOP them from going someplace where they CAN play and get RECRUITED. Like I said, if my buddys kid did what some of these posters suggested he lax days would be over and he would be paying full freight. Instead he is playing d2 with a half scholarship. WHy is anyone here against that ?

Another person missing the point...not about one kid, about a system where HS coaches are strong arming all kids in their disctrict to either play (and Pay) for their travel team or forget about playing HS lax...

Come on people, you don't see this as a major conflict? HS coaches should be banned from running clinics and teams in the sprots they coach at the HS level.

Unlike college coaches, most LI public HS coaches are not professional coaches, they are teachers that coach for the extra cash. They teach bio and math and spanish and gym, they dont get their jobs because they are great coaches in any sport, they get their jobs because they can teach bio and math...

They are using their positions of power to force people to pay them. Plain and simple, conflict of interest.

That was a great post, thanks! All I can add is that your child (son or daughter) and the parents need to visit as many schools as possible so you can see what the campus, population and area are like. Are these schools the right fit for you all? Distance, price, competition level, etc... Contact the coaches by email or telephone... The one day clinics are a great way to visit campus, meet coaching staff and some players... Good luck!

HA...you said nipple

There are 54 D1, 30 D2 men's college lacrosse teams that offer scholarships. I believe the number of scholarships per D1 team is 16.9. As a college coach you can chop up that 16.9 to full, half, quarter scholarships. Take away Ivy but they have creative financial aide. If on average there are 35 players per D1 program that's approximately 1800 D 1 players covering 4-5 graduation years out of the huge numbers playing in this country. If a coach were to get real creative with his scholarships and give out 1/2 to everyone on his team that's only 1728 scholarships per cycle of players. It's a number that is always in flux based on what he needs to do.

Odds are parents your child is not going to get a scholarship there are over 500,000 registered youth lacrosse players and the number is growing year to year. Don't get so caught up in this craziness. Let your kid have a great experience with his friends and teammates allowing him to just be a kid.

Well said for the most part. Lucky for the WM goalie to get seen late in the season of his senior year by Cornell. What if WM did not have the same kind of season? He would have ended up going to Bowdoin where he already committed. You then have to ask, why wasn't he seen earlier? How come he was missed? Did he play club or play with his HS team on a mixed grade level?

Really come on. The great programs make room for a good coach who happens to be a teacher. When a great coach who runs a great program decides to step down his predecessor is already picked from either a core of assistant coaches from within or a bug name coach. With the cost of living on Long Island getting more and more expensive teachers and coaches must supplement their income and if they are a name in the lacrosse world he will draw. Now we are going to tell teachers they can't tutor on the side.

what would have happened? Bowdoin would have been Nescac champs 4 straight yrs! are you kidding me? its life...this kid
rose to the occasion his sr year...for 22 straight games was brilliant. How was he missed? really? he wasnt missed, he didnt separate himself from the pack until sr. year. He played solid as a junior...not great. he should be an inspiration to many kids...keep working hard good things can happen...not guaranteed, but can happen.

I thought it was only 13 scholarships per D1 mens team?

It is a conflict and it should be stopped.

Do the HS coaches at WM also give private lessons for $$?

Does anyone know if any of the coaches have given private lessons to any of their players in the past?

its not about winning championships? lax is a team sport, correct? are you saying its all about getting little johnny recruited? if so, your in the wrong sport. i think too many parents do not care how their hs team does during the season & if johnny gets his 4 goals a game he gunna get recruited...yea for jihnny!!! some teammate he is.

The off season should be about helping all players improve. The HS should be about winning but in the off season kids should not be restricted.

WM has been a dominant team for the better part of 40 years, what they do in a few summer tournaments has not been the reason for their dominance.

What takes place in three village is wrong.

The HS coaches and the three village board coerce and bully families into playing only for three v / WM even when it is not in the best interest of the player.

At a Town Hall Meeting the HS coaches and three village board members stood up and told the community "We have the best coaches here in three village, there is no need to go anywhere else".

Do you know how many three village board members send their kids to private lessons and clinics that they do not tell the rest of the team or league about?

If the best coaches are in three village why send them to an outside clinic?

I do not have an issue with the HS coach wanting to work with his players in the off season but the way it is being done at WM is wrong.

If money is changing hands it is a major conflict of interest.

If there is an implied threat it is wrong.

If it is not in the best interest of the player it is wrong.

Winning at the HS should be a priority for the HS coach but what they do in the off season could be altered in order to better prepare for the Varsity season.

Limited practice and five meaningless tournaments is not he best way to prepare for the Varsity Season.

It seems this has been the growing trend in quite a few lax towns. I agree, it is a total conflict of interest.

what is the best way to prepare? not sure i understand your point. wm summer team plays in the same summer touraments that the top club teams play in, wm plays it the top level
of each tournament....so if you were to play for a club team, you are doing the same, no?
clubs pratcice a few times a week as well...ive never heard of a senario where a kid played outside 3 village & it was held against him....that is just bs...these coaches put the best players on the field. 2 maybe 3 yrs ago, wm goalie now at (tufts)? played outside the program
for many years & he started on the varsity ....best players will play..too many parents who's kids ARE NOT good enough will [lacrosse] until the cows come home, stop the whining

do you have a better way to improve in the off season? example?
how would you do it?

this post is a crock ....the wm summer teams only have 25 players...all the kids play. if you are a wm parent you would know this. you do get the exposure to recruiters...every kid played including goalies. the 12-15 kid senario is bogus.

agreed I actually thought they had 27 sound like sour grapes to a disgruntled parent .

Mine is on and made the team. Happy he did but understand that others will not be as happy...

Truly glad that your son had a great experience. No sarcasm here. As a 3V parent, this is helpful to know. A concern I have is that the WM Summer Teams ( both Green and Gold) play multi grade level which is not ideal for recruiting. I'm sure parents will come on and defend this, but its not Does the Green Team play in the top division? I know for a fact that the Gold team made up of rising 10 th and 11th graders did not play in the top division. So is this the best way to be seen if this was your goal? If thats not the goal for yiur son, then its fine Maybe it's a good way to help get playing time for your son on the school team. My dilemma brings me back to the original thread. What if my son wants to play in the most competitive tournaments to improve his game? What if he feels that club will help him reach his goal? Will a high school coach hold it against him because he felt he wasn't being loyal when school was not in session? If my sons not good enough to be the chosen 12-15 during the school season, I'm realistic and would get the lack of playing time. However, if he was deserving and wasn't given a chance because he didn't help contribute to the coach's summer salary, there's a definite conflict. I guess we'll have to roll the dice this year.

I think last year it was 28 or 29 players on the Green team.

Who cares, the question is:

Is it a conflict of interest for a High School Coach to coerce players into playing for a summer team when he has a financial interest in that team?

Be Honest...

To those of you who believe that (the coach will play the best players) I will challenge you by saying that (the coach will play who he believes to be the best players). They may or may not be the best players but it is his decision.

In a district the size of Ward Melville there are very good players who do not get on the field. The coach does not always select the best player. Take a look at this years team, many of their best players did not see much playing time as juniors. Were last years Seniors so much better??

I am not questioning the coaches, I am pointing out that they are blessed with depth and that not every kid can get quality playing time.

If you feel that your son would be better served by doing something different for the summer so be it. No player should be punished for trying to get better and help himself.

The question is: Is it a conflict of interest????

are you kidding? the coaches only put who they think are the best players.... yea! who should pick then you? you are delusional. lets have mommy pick... did you read what you wrote or are you that clueless? this yrs sr class WAS & Is that much better. Hands down. Bottom line its a numbers game
hot everyone can get on the field. Move to a district that doesnt have as competitive of a program & your superstar will have a mailbox full of full schollys. as far as sm wm & sachem
putting a club together? another clueless statement...all great programs ...too many kids! same program again.
you parents ran the dads coaching the hs summer team out of town, that concept wasnt right because all the dad's kids were getting all the full rides so then you wanted the hs coaches involved...NOW thats not working...lets have MOMMMY coach!

another parent mis informed....playing multi level not
ideal for recruiting? com'on...lets see, petey only plays well against kids his own age....lol coaches know what grade a player is in. And if your playing on a team like WM, coaches
have a very high level of respect for the WM program & that goes a long way for your kid...more than you know...so the fact that a 9, 10th grader is playing on WM team gets you interest.they dont expect that kid to be dominating a raising senior...they are looking at lax iq, hustle, etc. maybe you should contact a college coach and ask, what do you look for
in a player? you may be surprised & certainly tell them you play in the WM program....your other comment, what if my son wants to play in a more competitive tournament? you REALLY me that YOU want him to play in a more competitive tournament! on other words your kid only plays his best when he is on a "stacked" team? one thing you will find out after the conversation with that college coach is that they look for kids that make the other players around them, BETTER! they want NOTHING to do with the prima donna that can only play with good players. Last ask that coach why they ALWAYS talk to the kids hs coach? because these club coaches are full of crap
when it comes to a kids talent level....follow the money...clubs will keep telling you are a cant miss D1 player...why? cause they want your $$$ next year & next year
etc. Dont forget the club scens has many levels...each club has a #1 team. if you're not on it, your tosing your money away
espcially if your a wm kid...talk about a drop off. you shouldnt lose sight of the value playing for the WM program.

Go back and read it again. You have a bug up your a-- about something. No complaining about who plays and who does not. I said it is up to the coach. I said that there are very good kids that sometimes do not get to play (like when this years seniors were juniors) not all of them saw a lot of time. (were they not good as juniors?)

You either can't read or you can't comprehend.

Simple question, is it a conflict of interest?

where is the example of a player being punished? a lot of talk here about it...any example? find it hard to believe.

i heard 5 ninth graders are on green team. not right they should pay there dues on gold before going to green.

they didnt play as juniors because at that point in time, there were better players a head of them. Remember the coach plays who HE thinks is the best players. dont forget, players
improve, some stay the same, and some regress. the WM pole has an amazing senior year..took advatange of the opportunity & made the best of it. same thing for this year, which kids will step up ? there are a lot of 2014's that have the potential to have great senior years. wait & see.

i dont see a conflict. if its true that the melville summer team plays all 25-29 (whatever the #) players, how is this a problem? i assume making the summer team is tough, most spring varsity rosters are closer to 40 & they have a 2nd team gold, which is a jv team. There was a previous post about a funnel & how the numbers of players widdles down as the palyers get older. so its about 50 -55 players for the summer. if your NOT in the top 50 of your hs, are you recruit level? these coaches are not strong arming anyone, thats alot of nonsense. if you get get cut these teams (& this is why they have tryouts in Aug) so you can go to a club & find a home. get real with your kid, just because you or your kid wants to play college lacrosse are you really capable? odds are if your not making the cut now, chill out with being so obsessed with getting recruited. Tons of college club teams to play for & will give you a great lax experience etc.

First of all, my post was trying to be positive. You have a lot of anger and clearly don't even want to see both point of views. Calling me misinformed demonstrates that. Please read objectively.

Let's start with your first argument about multi level. Maybe you should talk to some of the WM 2012 Summer Green Team parents about how when WM got on the field to play as rising seniors even though there were younger players, there were instances when coaches walked away assuming that if a senior was that good he would have been committed already. Some of these coaches were unaware that mixed grades were playing. This was a big disadvantage for rising juniors. This is a fact and a valid concern. Hopefully, this was rectified for the players this summer.

Of course, coaches look for hustle and lacrosse IQ. You offered no new insight there. Coaches also look at the behavior of the player on and off the field as well as their parents' behavior. This holds true for both WM and club.

Of course, playing for WM during the school season holds weight with college coaches. WM has a long history of great lacrosse. Not sure it holds as much weight during the summer. You should ask them that. Some coaches want to know if you can mesh well with players from other towns and not just the ones that you have played PAL with since 2nd grade. After all, you are not taking your entire HS team to college with you.

As far as your point of wanting my son to play on a "stacked" team, I never said that. I think it is a benefit for my son to play in more competitive tournaments as does he, so he can be amongst some of the most competitive players in his age group. This shows us where he falls and what he needs to work on. It helps raise his level of play. It's good for him to learn from players that he does not play with all the time and be inspired by them. This does not mean he doesn't look up to his school teammates because he has respect for them too. This also does not mean that he is a "prima donna" as you put it. If you knew my son at all, you would know that he is a very unselfish player. I guess name calling and insulting a young teen makes you feel better and somehow makes you think your point is valid.

As far as the "club scene" that you negatively refer too, he is on the #1 team since you brought it up. That doesn't mean that the B Teams do not have talent which I am sure you are aware of since they have beaten 3V's A team on many occasion including Patriots Elite's team as well.

Yes, playing club does cost more $, but probably not as much $ as you would think. You get what you pay for. It's probably comparable to all the $ WM kids pay for private lessons and the clinics they try to take discretely after the parents proclaim that we have the best coaches anywhere and no need to go anywhere else. In years to come if my son wants to play college lacrosse and if he has the talent and the grades, I have no doubt that my son's club coaches and school coaches will do whatever they can to help him get recruited whether it be D1, D2, or D3.

All these boys will be playing school lacrosse together. It's important that we respect each other and the different decisions parents made for their sons. In all situations, everyone has their child's best interest in mind. There are just different avenues for helping your child improve his lacrosse skills. We never lost sight of playing for a WM program. We live in the district first for it's reputation for a great education, it's a wonderful community to raise a family and it certainly helps that my children love lacrosse in a district that excels at the sport.

I have faith that our HS coach would never hold it against an athlete based on where he decided to play during the off season. Each player needs to be evaluated each season based on school tryouts. Because then surely it would be a conflict of interest if WM's coach cut or didn't play a deserving athlete due to that athlete not contributing to his summer salary.

I think your stirring the pot by making that statement teams haven't been emailed yet.

did you make a point? i think i missed it. because it reads like complete jabberwockey...

Agreed -- no one has been informed who is on what team yet. A little early to say that there are 9th graders on a team....

BRAVO! See you all at the club tryouts over the next few weeks...

Do you truly believe that the coaches get it right 100% of the time?

At WM there are very good players that do not get quality playing time and that is OK. But please do not insist that "the coaches play the best kids".

The coaches try their best and they play who they believe to be the best but every year there are very good players who do not see the field. Every kid they play is good but not every good player gets to play. That is reality, not a complaint.

If the WM coaches do not favor you son in the 9th or 10th grade does it make sense to play with WM in the summer if he could play for a strong club team?

I am not sure what to do.

But this is the situation that makes me ask the question.

Is it a conflict of interest for the HS Coach?

I think it is.

It amazing that the coaches just lead their team and community to a national ranking and state championship and are still being hammered by the parents in their community. What a shame. The truth is if your a parent you have an comment for everything, and if your an alumni of the greatest high school lacrosse program in the country you have a real clue about the truth and what it takes to play at the next level. Here's a big clue to play at the next level for the players, you go to college by yourself, mom and dad stay home. Here's another clue, if you think playing on express or 91 is better for your kid to get into college your wrong. As per every college coach they think its a joke that these kids play for another team other then their high school especially if they live in sachem, smith town, west I, ward Melville. This shows them lack of commitment, believe, trust, and most importantly to every coach, character! Which stems from their up bringing and beliefs. No coach will recruit a player who's parent is an issue as well. Believe what you want but this is the absolute truth.
Ward Melville lacrosse is back, be a part of it or don't! Either way the coaches and players will not care what any of you have to say and they will continue to do what's right for the program and community, and that's WIN!

who is hammering the coaches?

you are a very angry and arrogant person.

Absolute truth??

Ward Melville Lacrosse is back?? I did not know they left.

Kudos to the WM coaches. No one is saying that they didn't do a great job leading their players to a state championship. The previous poster even said that they try their best. You can honestly say that you talked to every college coach and they think 91 and Express are jokes? Really? If that's the case, then why do they have such a high rate of commitments to very impressive schools? Once again, the thread is about if it is a conflict. It doesn't mean that people do not think the coaches do a great job during the school season. It purely means, could there be a possible conflict and many many people believe there could be. Even some of the players/parents that play on the green and gold team believe it, but play on it just in case it is held against them. People are entitled to their humble opinion.

Did all of the past Ward Melville Players who (played for a club) have low character? were they not committed?

Army, Umass, Sacred heart, Brown, Penn State/North Carolina etc... must not have agreed with you.

People are trying to do what is best for the kid so they might have a chance to play for Ward Melville.

As per every coach? Who are you, you have the ear of every college coach? Go back to your glory days and leave the rest of us alone. you are a simply, stupid person, but its not your fault, your mommy didnt raise you to think for yourself...

Has a player ever been penalized for not playing with the ward Melville summer program? Has it been held against a player that they played somewhere else?

Right- that is the root of this issue the town/school vs club relationship is disfunctional. Sachem tells their kids no club after 6th grade... Club just makes kids better by raising the competition level - that is a fact. I wish all you policy makers can find a way to coexist, instead of placing an ultimatum on a kid. And those of you that do place ultimatums and twist the justification in your minds - should really reconsider and embrace all the opportunity that is available to our kids. Most kids play both now - and instead of parents feeling awkward by doing what's best for their child - work with us for those that want our kids playing club and give good advice. Maybe have a relationship with a club and find a win-win solution. Because this isn't going away and this is a good debate to have - since both sides have merits.

To the best of my knowledge no. But the Green, Gold and White teams only started a couple of years ago.

Follow the money - that's what all this nonsense is about, too much money for clubs or school coaches with summer teams to leave behind

I feel it is a conflict...as a smithtown parent,hate it! Too many hands in the pot and everyone being pushed and in a sense threatened into playing.Summer is summer pay your money where you want.

Why do you think they consider it a joke to play travel? There is travel in every sport. Other than a calling it a lack of commitment - what is the downside? Earlier this summer I was at 2014 committed club team practice and saw the best talent around on the field playing (a few aforementioned school helmets there as well) Isn't that a good thing for a player - not only preparing him/her for the upcoming school season - by increasing their skills and making others around them better. But preparing them to play on the next level. That is what is interesting and frustrating about this debate - people use words like no commitment - but all of us are committed to town and school ball. However, we want our kids in club as well.

And in my opinion there is no conflict for a HS coach to run a summer program. Just stop the nonsense of saying "you're with us or you're not" Just get the left side to work with the right side.

Keep the debate (minus the name calling) rolling - it is certainly interesting to hear everyone's opinion.

how does club raise the competition level? wm plays in top
summer tourneys, no?
also, no one has mentioned the individual showcase camps, jake reid, 205, 225 Mavrericke etc. these are important events to get into & wm kids do & the coaches tell you to. So for the 9 10th & 11th graders that havent gotten a lot of playing time you can get excellent exposure.

the coaches do play the best players. Yes it is true that there are very good players that do not get alot of playing time, but the coaches are playing the best of the best. not sure why you make such a comment. As far as being a 9th or 10the grader (not favored) what does that mean? he doesn't get playing time? because there are better players ahead of him?
1. the SUMMER wm program green/gold EVERYONE plays. You will get exposure at tourneys.
2. Play for a strong club team...are you already on this strong club team? if not, how do you know you would make it? what role/position would you play? my guess is that if you are not "favored" on your little town squad, how confident are you that things would be different on a strong club team that pulls from all of LI?

high rate of commitments? that is a joke....these club teams are money making machines plain & simple. how do you know how a player was really recruited? Expres will calim any kid that played in their program...whether it be 4th grade, 1 yr. 2 yrs. whatever...if the player was a St. A's kid....playing for St. A's team didn't get him recruited? i find it hard to believe that many of these impressive commitments werent do to the HS that a kid played at...look at the Chaminade & St. A's
alone, 2 super hs lax teams in the COUNTRY...they didnt have a
play on these kids recruiting? come'on open your eyes. Hats off to express 91 etc they are marketing themselves well.

100% of the time the coaches identify the best??

100% of the time the coaches are right when they play 9th or 10th graders over upperclassmen??

The Gold team is the best place for a rising 10th grader to play??

The coaches do not favor certain kids??

The topic is, "is it a conflict of interest"?

You are not correct about the 2012 Green Team. College coaches have a detailed roster given to them at check in. They do know what grade a player is in. College coachs bounce from field to field depending on who they are looking at. Many go to a tourney with a specific list, others
are open to see anything & everthing. To make a statement that coaches left because they assumed the players were committed already is false. How do you know why a coach picks up his chair? LOL. I would really question the parent that you received that type of information from.
Another parent who thinks his kid is better than he really is? Also, do not forget that last year 2012, WM had 2 very good sophs. an attackman & defenseman that played spring varisty these 2 drew alot of attention from college coaches so if you were a raising jr. in 2012, you would have had the opportunity to show your stuff so to speak. Many times a collge coach will go to see player "A" & winds up discovering player "D". Bottom line at recruiting tourney's you have to bring your "A" game to every game...never know who is watching.

100% ????
Get real with that.
Upperclassmen playing behind 9th & 10th graders? I think you do not have a realistic view of your son's ability with respect to recruiting. If your 18 year old has a 14/15 year old playing ahead of him in Suffolk Division 1, not sure what college level lax your son has expectations of. This is not a knock of your son, but if your son played on the WM summer teams the past few years, he was given equal playing time & played with all the players from his position many college coaches watching....phones not ringing? He may just not be good enough. If he gave it his best, so be it, thats all you can ask...There are plenty of great schools that play lacrosse
and if you son plays WM varsity, there are spots for him, just do your homework & ask your HS coach is opinion.

This thread was for all LI and seems to be pointed towards WM.

The best point I see is a reoccurring one. Sure you may be a very good player, but there may be better on your town team in front of you. If this is the case why not go to a club team. But at the same time if you aren't the best in your town why would you think you would be best on an all LI type of club.

There are a few arguments here

1). If you have a strong town program (16+ A/B players)
a] if you are a top player you want to have the HS step up and create a system.
b] if you are a second tier player you don't want to be told you need to be on a team to play behind someone else, when another club team will get you playing.

2). if you have a weak town program, you want to get the best possible exposure and play the best possible competition for summer and not be told you have to be committed.

My question is if possible name the top 10 Suffolk towns and Nassau towns who can create this type of feeder system and at what age do you start. 6th grade to prep for MS and HS.


Ill start with Suffolk (in no particular order)
WM
WI
Smithtown (I know there are 2)
Sachem (I know there are 2)
Northport
Bayshore
Sayville
SWR
ESM
Harborfields
Riverhead

Get real?

you keep attacking parents and kids saying that their kid is not good enough. I have only questioned the logic of blindly following what a few people say we should do.

Are you a coach? did you coach your son? are you one of the coaches who knows every kids potential? did you always get it right?

I have heard the term "Step up" used by some, I will say that in order to "Step Up" a player needs to be given the opportunity.

At a place like WM, there are many good players, the coaches do their best but they do not get it right all of the time.

What makes you so sure that this new system is in the best interest of the players? In a previous post I said that I am unsure what to do. Why do you think that WM has the only way to hep a player become stronger.

Garden City, Chamidade and St Anthony's have all been very successful during the HS season and the kids do not all play together in the summer.

I am amazed at some who do not question what is being pushed upon them by a few.

By the way, If the HS coaches do not think your kid is one of the better players, don't you think that you should change what you have been doing in order to change the result?

If you can play with better players and have a different coach do you not think that you might be able to improve?

People keep talking about College Recruiting, how about trying to improve so you can be one of the top kid at WM.

Do you think the only way to become a stronger player is to follow what the WM people say you should do?

well said, But if all these superstars, that have left the 3v program , would have stayed, 3v lax would be dominant at the tourneys ,as was last years team, that was number 1 in the country, New [lacrosse] State Champs and undefeated.

If my kid was playing in a top tier district, makes sense to play with your school.
What if your child is not playing in a top tier district and the coach still demands �No summer teams other than your schools", what then?

Over the years my observation is if the kid for whatever reason; skill, size, political, etc� does not make a �A�/ �AA� type team why spend the 1k plus for a �B� or �C� team?
If your school maintains a program over the summer, stay with them , has already played with those kids over the spring and knows them, coaches, etc�

I observed a mid-tier school team at a few tournaments this past summer beat at times handily some of the �big name� summer programs at various tournaments.
Granted its �B� level, but that�s the point, why spend all that extra money?
Spend it on showcase camps�

1. Spend that extra money if school does not stay together after their spring season.
2. Spend that extra money if your child can make a �A� or �AA� team and their school team is not a top district.

Other than that stay together for the entire year�

Bottom line - NO school team coaches should be allowed to coach pay to play summer teams in any sport, it's an inherent conflict of interest by any standard! The AD's of these schools need to step up and end this practice asap

Then they have these affiliated club teams, which falls under the guidance of the school program. And the club is doing the messaging. And they say why go to a travel team when we can offer that right here and cheaper.

The St Anthony's coaches have been "strong arming" their players into the Express club for years and they haven't taken any heat. Why is that ok? Hint: It's not ok...

The St Anthony's coaches have been "strong arming" their players into the Express club for years and they haven't taken any heat. Why is that ok? Hint: It's not ok...


Not public school

Not true, I know several players that graduated last year that played for St. Anthony's that were on other travel teams instead of express.

Oh come on , I have known numerous Express parents who think the Express is a road INTO ST Anthony sand Chaminade's lax programs

I am express parent on 2018 terps team. My son is a starter and has not once been told he should go to St A or Cham...

Maybe the pressure starts this year???

This entire chain is pretty well played out. The schools that strong arm kids are clearly wrong, whether or not they have a winning program, whether or not their coaches are strong, whether or not ever kid gets a fair shot to play, whether or not the kid is good enough to play...

Schools should not be in the business of dictating what kids do when the school sport season (lax, baseball, football, soccer...)is not in session. THis is just a cash grab by the school coaches and I am shocked that the school districts stand for it...

Not about whinny parents, and yes, there are many of those in the lax world.

They don't tell the kids to go to St ant's or Cham, they tell the kids that go to the schools to play certain clubs...

I would think the pressure comes when your child is in St. A or Cham to play with Express in the summer. I'm sure there are some who don't play with them but, most will.

Bet they were non-starters. If they were starter please tell us what position they started at and what other club they played for.

Makes absolutely no difference if its a private or public school. Pressure is pressure regardless of how a school is funded with tax dollars or private tuition. It's wrong both ways.

Because their's pressure to do so.

There is pressure to switch your faith as well.... Really?

No problem accepting the pressure to play on one the best club organizations around and pressure to be forced to play for a perennially nationally ranked HS. BTW - 100+ kids showed up for the freshman (not jv) tryouts at Chaminade this past spring. Don't think this mysterious pressure you all seem to know about exists. Enough, already. People can play where they want and when they want. Likewise for coaches. The policy makers just have to stop making parents and players feeling uncomfortable because they are playing club. These town PAL reps & school clubs really believe they are responsible for building the varsity program.

The difference is you choose to attend a private school and can leave if you're not happy for whatever reason. Public school your only option is to move to a different district - publicly funded instututions have a set of different rules in all endeavors because of the taxpayer dollars asociated with them - thats why there's 50-60 kids on a middle school team and everyone gets equal playing time. If you look at the test scores of students in the USA versus the rest of the world it would seem that our focus is a tad out of whack

Here is a great example of how a coach works with a local club and produce a win-win. This is a recent quote from the Comsewogue Varsity coach "Mitchell said the success on the varsity level is due in great part to the strong youth program. "It's having a great youth league, which is where it all starts, and I'm definitely the recipient of a lot of people's hard work," Mitchell said. "A lot of my kids play in the summer league. Mike (Gongas) at Team Long Island does a great job and really prepares our kids. They get a lot of playing time over the summer and there's always a spot on the summer league roster regardless of the player's talent level." Imagine that... a club and school collaborating.

I just went through the town web sits on the left. GC states at the youth level they have a A/B/C tier system. For 5th and 6th grade. Love the concept. but I can see the B team in another town be stronger if the kids want to explore outside travel teams.

What does GC ask of its 7-11th graders?

It is my understanding that over the last couple of years GC has been pressuring kids to play only with their Town.

In the past, many of GC's Top players played for Club Teams.

The HS Team did very well during the school year.

What would cause the HS Coach to change..?

not from GC but this is what i have been told. If it is not accurate please let us know.

imagine that...check mitchells pockets..... Open your eyes.

Keep hearing how TLI doesn't profit from their summer teams, but how much do they profit from tryouts at $75.00 per player when there are very few positions to fill each year, I would say they profit............and as far as a high schools working with TLI, their rosters are filled mostly by Rocky Point, Mt. Sinai and Comesewogue, very few players from other towns

I think that the majority of players on TLI's U-17 team were from Comesewuage.......wasn't Mike Gongas involved with coaching with the high school there? Must be nice, and you are correct, working with a club team benefits the high school, especially working with a club like TLI

My son is a Jr. from Mt. Sinai and plays on team LI U17. Anyone is welcome on that team. Last year a kid from Smithtown joined the team for the first time and he was a Freshman, Team LI helped him secure a DI scholarship. It's a great organization!

I didn't say that they don't have players from other towns, what I said is the majority of players are from the 3 towns previously mentioned, it is an organization that favors those 3 towns, enough said!

no they don't. they'll take the best players that show up. Go to the tryout and you'll count 10 town helmets.

My friend, I have seen their teams at tournaments and I observe what I observe, I'm good like that....Rocky Point, Comsewogue and Mt. Sinia/Miller Place a few West Hampton here and there and yes they do take players from other towns, but again very few......but through observing them over the years, I have to say TLI is very loyal to the players that they have as they seem to move up with a secure spot year after year, can't say that for many other organizations...........wish I was from one of those towns ^^

That maybe true for the older teams. but u-15 an under there is way more diversity. My son is on the U-14 A team. There is 2 Mt Sinai,1 Rocky point,1 Miller Place, 1 W. Hampton, NO Comsewogue! That is 5 kids from those towns. There are at least 10 towns represented on our team! The best kids make it. It doesn't matter where you are from! I agree that TLI is loyal to there kids. If you are on a team you really have to play yourself off the team to be replaced!

Rather than call it Team Long Island, they should call it Team Suffolk. No Nassau kids at all?

Probably because it's too far, they practice in Mt. Sinai.

and where do the j-e-t-s play and practice.

Everyone from Nassau knows that the Jets practice and play in East Meadow!

Not Suprising, Check fl$, Mostly Nassau County, if not fully. Location is important.

good one! illustrating the point further that some people are always 5 years behind where they should be.

Jokes on you bud...East Meadow HS mascot is JETS

I doubt Smithtown frowns on club teams. Some of their HS coaches coach for the LI Thunder.

does Team Smithtown take kids from both High Schools?

Yes, Team Smithtown takes kids from both schools. If they have enough kids to create an East and West team, then they will. That is what they are going to try this year with U13 teams. However, they are also setting up these teams to play all year long like other clubs, so I doubt you will have a choice to play on another club at the same time!

Team smith town, what other towns can create a competitive team to pay you guys...

Who runs / owns Team Smithtown?

Who coaches the High School Teams, JV and Varsity?

I wish Sachem would do that. They break up East and North starting in K. Instead of building an A super team. xwdem4

Getting back to the original concept of this thread, HS summer teams should be optional and or in addition to travel teams. Many HS teams in Western Suffolk play weekly in a local league. Thus, "keeping the boys together". The play and practice with the school duringthe week, and the do their recruiting tournaments and travel clubs on the weekend.
This seems to be a good complimentary situation.
In no way should a HS coach make his team play for him all summer. It all comes down to control and financial gain, wether actual or perceived. Having one man in control of your son's potential lacrosse aspirations is not what you want. The people who should be driving the recruiting process are the parents and the player. The HS coach should only be there to help the process along, not control it. Having the HS coach control what recruiting camps your son will go to or how much playing time he'll get over the summer in front of key coaches, is not a good situation. This is especially true for the average prospective college player, good enough for the next level, but maybe not a D1 kid. For the superstar it doesn't matter, the top schools will find him.
With regard to the financial piece: Any time a coach is making kids play for a team he runs and you pay for, always creates an underlying sentiment that there's a profit motive. Wether the coaches motives are pure or not this situation always wreaks of financial impropriety.
Let the kids and parents make their decisions for summer ball, and let the HS coaches worry about the spring. Very simple.

Rick Suris is the Director of Team Smithtown he also has two kids in program which is the first conflict of interest!

They did a poor job this year involving decisions to overhaul the program and create a single 6th-7th grade superteam. They say there may be two, but lets face it, then there would just be two mediocre teams, so what would be the point? Where does that leave the kids that don't make the team? They will play club! In fact, many have already turned to clubs to cover their backs!

As for coaching, Jason Lambert is the East coach and Moltisanti is west, Apparently they will coach the young kids too with all their free time!

This is one of the best posts on this subject!

If Team Smithtown takes kids from two different high schools doesn't that fly in the face of what all of the proponents of a (HS / town summer club) talk about?

I keep hearing the argument made that (playing together) helps build chemistry.

Back to the original topic.

Yes, it is a conflict of interest for a HS Coach to profit from a summer club team.

I hope the Manhasset girls varsity coach reads this post!!!

Totally agree great post- ESM boys coach should read this as well

Every town club that that using their position as a control should read this. The club school programs should collaborate - because honestly would this be a debate - if they worked together i.e. advising them. News Flash Town Club.... Parents will play both - they understand that playing with town kids is important, but they want travel as well. At least a lot of parents are smart enough to understand some of these town clubs are over stepping - as I saw a lot (WM, GC, Smithtown, Sachem, WI, etc) at these tryouts yesterday. And at the end of the day the school coaches will put the best kid on the field.

ESM Coach is the worst with this......From the talent I've seen over there, they should let the boys get outside coaching. ESM will not be a power going forward if we have to only in house....

Just curious, do the high school coaches want to control a players decision whether to play on a club team during the summer because said coach would like the opportunity to bring his players to a higher level within their system, and at the end of the journey, that same high school coach has the pride in knowing that he is the reason the player goes on to play college lacrosse. I would think that if a high school coach is dedicated enough to put together a team and keep it together during the summer, and this high school coach watches his team grow from year to year, this high school coach has invested a lot of time into his players, and he would like to see his players succeed knowing he had something to do with it. I do believe though, that a player should have a choice as to where he or she would like to play, but I feel that they should do all that is possible to represent their school team if given the opportunity.

Does anybody have any input regarding Massapequa H.S. coaches trying to get their middle schoolers to play summer travel for their town only based Team Chief ? I know a lot of those kids played for 91 and Jesters. Just curious if they are getting kids to commit to town program instead of club teams.

And I think the parents feel that way. And I think we are all insane enough to do both and make it work. However, the coaches debate has been the ultimatum "us or them". And then use that ultimatum to run a club, i.e, the conflict. They already have the captive audience and people will support a school summer team. I have no problem with anybody making money (no matter their position) or what they charge. Just stop with anti-club nonsense.

No

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller

I can play for My High School team in the Shoreham tournament or I can go to the fall Jake Reed. But I cant do both because they are the same weekend. What would the people on this board advise?

Jake Reed

I guess if you ask some of the HS coaches, it would be the local tournament. Ya know, cause they're all about the "KIDS".

In many towns school ball is becoming glorified stick time. It means next to nothing. That's why club is so valuable...

Agree with poster about WM summer program. If your kid is not in their view (which is clearly blurry at times) better off playing for travel programs at your grade level. This program does nothing for the above average player who is not the stud of the program. Kids who can clearly play for lower DI, DII or DIII programs this system does not help them at all. With over 25 kids on a roster and the mismanagement of how many positional players they have placed on the teams your kid may see only a few minutes in the game. It is a disgrace that such a powerhouse lacrosse town can not do more for these kids who fall between the cracks of the system. Having been through the system it is a shame, disgrace that they haven't figured out it is not the best possible system to help more kids play at the collegiate level than the starting guys on the field. When is anyone going to step up and question what is being done? Where are the board members of 3V lacrosse...oh yeh...they are all on the top team.

I am glad that I no longer have to have my kids going through this debacle but I feel for those kids and parents who are being pushed to the side when they should figure out a way to develop all the talent that is there not just the chosen few. The system is broken so fix it.

Will be interesting to see how many kids they lose from the current structured program. So much for staying as a "town team" only to be dumped by the next level. Don't buy into it in the early grades.

sour grapes...you're a whiner, glad you're gone.

mismanagement of positional players? can you elaborate?
not sure which wm team son played on but everyone got alot of playing time. You sound like another parent that cannot accept
your son's playing level? Funny thing is that all the boys had a great time playing and hanging out with their teammates & it was the parents with the frowns on their faces...interesting..

My guess is your kid is one of the few tht benefit. Read the guys post. Valid point. Just saying it is a program that is not optimal. You wouldn't see that though because your head is too far up the coaches a$$.

Doubt it is from Smithtown. One of the varsity coaches - coaches for the Thunder.

Don't think there aren't issues with these town/school travel teams. In my town ...

1. There are players at younger grades currently on rosters, that have been taken only because their older siblings play JV or varsity.
2. There have been other players previously covered by item 1 above, who have subsequently been cut when their older siblings have graduated (what message does that send to a kid ?!?!).
3. There are players in private school, with no intention of going to the public middle school or public high school, which the summer program is intended to feed into. (Not the biggest issue, but this a roster spot taken up by a player who will someday play for the competition.)
4. There are players on rosters who are there only because their dad's were on varsity way back when.
5. There are non-lacrosse players on rosters because they are also football players, and there is a push to make them lacrosse players (taking a long view into high school, so they can play football in the fall and lax in the spring) -- some of these boys lack fundamental stick skills (of course, they could be great eventually, but maybe not).

And all of the foregoing results in a certain amount of good, motivated lacrosse players either not making a roster, or losing playing time, in many cases to boys who in all fairness did not legitimately earn their spot. And that makes the team weaker.

And potentially worse ... a number of elite players forgo the town travel team entirely, and play on private clubs. Perhaps to avoid the nonsense, or perhaps to play on a stronger team. So, oddly, the system can be counterproductive to the goal of keeping good players "in town". I suppose those players expect to glide onto the JV team when they reach high school, but that of course assumes the coaches don't hold it against them that they played elsewhere.

I am certain most or even all of this happens with every town that has a school-based travel team (assuming it is a team/program that most kids want to play on).

Indeed, conflicts a-plenty !!

The private clubs aren't much better. You pay more for less.

Wahh!

not sure what your problem is....both the green & gold teams played EVERYONE at each tourney....its not optimal? they mixed the line-ups as well....it would be the same as if you played on a club team...same tourneys, exposure is the same. If you are saying that the wm teams did not play everyone you are absolutely wrong. There were many games that the wm was winning
and they played everyone....and it cost them the game. Coaches didnt have a problem with the outcome because they wanted to get as many players game time experience. Thats what counts in the summer, so you can go into next spring with a lot depth & make a strong run for a championship. It sounds to me that you werent happy with the amount of interest you & your son received from college coachs...how much effort did you & your son put in on your own? how many showcase camps did your son go to?
any? if the interest was low on those & the wm team tourneys
open your eyes....go to a club pay your $$$ & your son will be in the same spot.

And that is why some of your players played for both town and club and never said anything, because they got enough time on the field with the town with a roster of 30. You can really get a lot of PT with that size roster. Keep seeing everything through your rose colored glasses.

That is why you play club. To play more and play with better players. Hey HS coaches - those of you are guilty of this get down from the ivory tower and become part of the solution. Only you have the power. Because if collaborated - the kids will do both, play more and everyone will be happy.

How dare you question the coaches or the 3V Board? They are the best! If you do not believe that they are the best I suggest that you go and ask them.

30 players on each of green and gold??? Come on, there is no way everyone gets a decent amount of playing time? How can any of them get recruited if they never get a chance?????

All the other club team are running low 20s. WM summer is a crock, money grab, waste of time. Keep your one town one team noneseense.

I give it two years before the parents with nerve push hard enough that the district is forced to tell the HS coaches to stay out of summer. Two years tops, suck for the people there now. You probably have one or two loud mouth fathers that pushed for this rediculous plan. What is wrong with the rest of the WM people, the koolaid is spiked?

good one...and in 2 years you will have the same thing, people like you with kids that are at best average players who think they should be recruited to play lax in college wont have the phones ringing either...sounds like you're another wm parent with no clue about this game. keep crying, great eaxample for your super star son.

How can you say never get a chance? its not up to the hs to "get you recruited" has your spoiled kid gotten off his [lacrosse]
and contacted coaches? gone to individual "showcase events"?
HS coaches can help you, but its up to the player to help himself. Maybe your kid just isn't that good yet? this forum is loaded with clueless parents like yourself who drank the
" i live in stony brook, my kid bought a wm helmet & he will be a super star lax player" koolaid. keep crying.

Teaching more parents about the recruiting cycles and process is one of the purposes of BOTC's Main Forums and College Forums. Parents and student-athletes that are better informed will be less subject to the exclusive direction provided by their lacrosse club in the recruiting process. Information is king in the college reruiting process.

Would love to hear from cage or parents outside of WM regarding current structured program. As it stands they have 2 teams Green (considered A team) and Gold (considered B team) each with about 30 kids on roster. Grades are mixed so can have rising freshman to rising juniors on teams. They are not straight grade level. Is this the best way to get kids exposed....even those kids that are as above parent puts it "at best average players" on a WM team who can still play DII and DIII? Again, isn't that the crux of the program to get all kids playing at the next level????

Not just the kids of ignorant, selfish parents who live vicariously through their children and are so blinded by the a$@ kissing that they don't even realize it is not the best system !!

WM thinks they are better than everyone else-please guys, express, 91 and anyone of those teams are better than any of your best teams. At most you have two or three kids that could even start on one of those teams.

Wake up, your kids-other than top two or three arent getting recruited. You guys drank the koolaid big time-

Just as many kids from Comsewogue and SHoreham getting recruited as WM. Smithtown many more??? why because those kids are playing for clubs and your kids are stuck...

For the parents that dont have the kid getting recruited, wake up and join a club team before your kid losses his chance...

tell the overbearing parents to step off--you know the guys on here that are posting that everyone is a whinniy baby--plain old bully mentality.

Wake up, the world does not revolve around WM lax.

Honestly, no interest and no comment.

lISTEN I BELIEVE THE CLUB TEAMS HAVE BENEFITED NOT THE KIDS THESE KIDS THAT YOU TALK ABOUT WOULD HAVE BEEN RECRUITED WITHOUT YOUR CLUB TEAM THESE INDIVIDUALS PUT THE CLUBS ON THE MAP. IF ANYONE OF THOSE KIDS STAYED WITH THERE SCHOOL PROGRAM THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN RECRUITED. SO YES PLAYER S FROM mELVILLE ,wEST . sMITHTOWN WEST AND EAST, West Islip would have been recruited even if they played for there home teams. you at the clubs benefit. you blow alot of smoke up peoples butt and collect the money and many kids don't get recruited . all the players from your a programs would have been recuited no matter where they played i will be impressed when you b,c,d and e team kids get recruited.

Caps dont make it more important or true. Clubs have gotten many more kids recruited than any HS program. To say otherwise is simply not true. Please check your facts, and try and type without caps...

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Hopefully your child benefited from it. That is not the issue! The issue is that parents and kids should have the opportunity to choose their own path without it being held against them by their Varsity coach. Sure some kids will be seen playing for their HS team, some won't and would be better off with their travel team! When it comes down to it the coaches want to make MONEY and this is an easy way to do it!

I would think the elite clubs gets more exposure then the school teams unless the school is a top notch program. BUT what about the good players that arent quite superstars and dont play for a top ranked HS? Is there any recruiting benefit for these kids playing at the club level? Do Club "B" teams even get looks from recruiters?

you miss the point. Those kids would have been recruited anyway. Can you really say the club teams did it or maybe the individuals talent. If the boy or girl is a player they are going to get recruited. Guess what as I said before when your b,c,d,and e team players get recruited then we can talk but until then if you can't get an A player recruited shame on you. They would be recruited from anywhere so the club team sales pitch is a crook. Get out there and practice and improve your skills and you will end up somewhere. Fundamentals

I agree with play where you want but don't tell me taht the club teams are the second comming. It still comes down to the player and if you have the skills and the IQ you don't need the club ,you can play anywhere and the coaches will find you. I have seen many kids that have played the club circuit and went to camps and still have not landed anywhere. It comes down to your talent and wall ball ,practice and fundamentals all help you get better not the club circuit.

Please, the HS plays from Feb to June with 5 summer tournys...clubs are playing year round.

It means more pratice for those of you that still dont get it.

next, if your HS features the stud--which they all do--he is the one that the recruiters come to see. The better than average kid never gets a realistic chance to show his/her talent during school ball.

If you think all those coaches on the sidelines during summer are watching every kid in the summer tourny's you are nuts. Have you been to any of the events? I have, they are watching the 4 kids they are trying to recruit, a kid that wasnt on their radar is wasting his time.

So, drum roll, it is up to the kid and his parents to get the kid noticed. If your HS will not feature your son (remember the state champs at WM are sending like 4 kids to play at college, the rest are not playing at the next level) and one of those kids never set foot on the field until this year and so he got no looks until now. Cornell told him you can come to our school as a walk on.

so, for all but the three or four studs, and we know that on WM there are ten kids (same goes for east and west and sachem and lots of schools) that will be better off playing their summers at a club. Anyone that tells you different is drinking the HS koolaid.

Not every kid can play at top level D-1, but lots of kids can play at second level D-1 and D11 and D111.

Parents need to realize that no one will do this work for your kid except you, not the HS for sure. Club structure is hear to stay because the model works and they provide a helpful service and give more opportunity to shine. it is simple, more practice, more events, more opportunity.

How much playing time can any kid get, even the stud, with 30 kids on a team and a 40 minute game??? Math is math, wake up!

Wah, wah, wah...

Just go to travel teams if you don't like to see what's going on.
There are many travel teams willing to take your $$$.
Sorry your son did not make the WM team(s) but have some class!
Tell your son work hard so he will be ready for next Spring WM tryout.
Whining does not get you anywhere.
Hard work does!
3V and WM Eilte programs are doing great job.
Keep it up!

My son will be fortunate to play within a H.S. program that plays together in the summer. That program has put well over a hundred kids (probably closer to 200) into college programs in the last decade. Many of these kids didn't get much playing time during school season but do see time in the summer program. D2&3 coaches know they come from a quality program with great coaching and reputation. The kids and parents buy into this system because it has produced a nationally ranked power with numerous state, LI, and county titles. Many of the younger kids also play on travel teams. However, when they get to H.S., the school summer program comes first. My fear is this may change in the not too distant future because some of these younger kids are playing for the top club teams and may feel as many of you do that they should play with the best players. This H.S. has kids who have played at A.C.C, Big Ten, Ivy schools so it is not like the coaches don't recruit them. I don't believe the coaches at this program are in it for the money because the costs are fairly low and if they started their own club program , I think they would do very well due to their results and reputations. They simply want the kids to play together because that teamwork wins championships. The town program isn't perfect as you see the same nonsense you see everywhere else, but the H.S. program has been great and I hope it stays that way. Just look at the towns that have won multiple county championships, LI and state titles since 2000. They all have something in common.

Had something in common. Sorry to let you all in on the secret, the world changes every day and makes things that were once successful obsolete.

anyone remember blockbuster? great model for alot of years but technology and netflix put them down....

it happens in every facet of life, those that hang on to the past, eventually get trampled, those that accept change and embrace it move forward.

clubs are here to stay, but even their model will change over the next few years as they battle eachother...

So for all you parents hanging on the the HS model (west I WM...) hopefully your kid graduates before the change and hopefully he is the team stud.

for the rest, pick the best club team you can get on and get your kid in the best position he can be in to get noticed.

for the guy who is always saying wah, wah in his posts, grow up

The only one who is whining is you, are you the same guy who bashes the parent and the kid because they have a different point of view?

You sound very arrogant. But I guess if you kid plays for "WM Elite" you think you are better than the rest of us.

Who calls themselves "Elite"??

back to the original question, Is it a conflict of interest for a HS Coach to run a for profit summer club team?

You mean like Garden City?

I think up until recently, GC kids played where they wanted. fl$, Express etc..

I think there is pressure in GC now. Not sure why they are changing.

WM summer gold team--

4 to 5 summer tourny, 2 will be recruiting types

28 kids, 12 long poles???

But we should stay in WM because it will help them win a championship? How much time can my kid get with 12 poles?????

At least the clubs pick the right amount of position players...

Let's here all the geniuses defend this please.

leave. Why didnt you ask this question at the meeting?
The skirt looks good on you.

Question was asked, they have no answers, only that they will get back to us as they work things out closer to summer.

There you go again, same tough guy with the same big mouth. Not worth responding to you, your one of those people in life we can all do without. Crawl back under that rock please.

12 seems like alot to get in. I would have preferred to keep
one of the 10th grade goalies too, Going with 2 very young 9th graders?? We will be facing some strong competition, big physical size jump 9 to 10th grade.

What devision will the gold team play in?

Are there 2016's on the gold roster?

Are there 2017's on the green roster?

What is the deal with the White Team?

What is the cost ?

Is it the same price for all teams?

If there were 80 - 90 kids at the tryouts and 57 were selected to be on either the green or the gold what happens to the other "25 or so" kids?

Is there a White team this year?

Will the rosters change before next summer or are you locked in to a team?

Who picked the teams?

Are the "wm elite" teams a part of 3VLax or is it separate?

Is "wm elite" a "for profit" business?

Why did 3V change the way they ran the summer teams?

OMG run! Sounds like your son is getting the shaft. If he's not one of the 12 or 12 chosen ones he won't play in the regular season anyway. So many options, do what's best for your son. Great big lacrosse world out there. If he wants to play in college, play for another team over the summer. Most college coaches don't even speak to the HS coach anymore.

Why didn't you ask these q's at the meeting?

I was not at the meeting. younger ones coming up in the program, trying to get all the info that I can.

You know why he didn't ask the questions.... Because the HS coach controls everything. So people are intimidated. Ya know, cause the coach is all about the kids. Would never hold it against a kid for his parents asking such valid, pointed questions. Horrible situation except for a chosen few. Who's going to say anything? People, wake up! Don't give all this power to these HS coaches. Do what's best for your kids.

Seriously, I am not from your town but people look to this model. Some agree it is not right and you should have an opinion to opt out of town ball, I disagree, you should be proud and want to play for your town with your buddy's and tell your kids aboaut it so,eday. this whole travel scene is not what it should be. It should be the best of the best only for a few tournaments. Playing the best elsewhere. Not just anyone who wants to play. Ad can Barry play. This whole thing is sickening.

[/quote]

Seriously, I am not from your town but people look to this model. Some agree it is not right and you should have an opinion to opt out of town ball, I disagree, you should be proud and want to play for your town with your buddy's and tell your kids aboaut it so,eday. this whole travel scene is not what it should be. It should be the best of the best only for a few tournaments. Playing the best elsewhere. Not just anyone who wants to play. Ad can Barry play. This whole thing is sickening. [/quote]


Seriously?

People look to this model??

What model??

The success of the Ward Melville Program has little to do with this model. Ward Melville has been a dominant program for something like 40 years. WM and 3V lax were successful long before anyone associated with the current programs were involved.

People look at the success of "Ward Melville" not at the model. The Model has changed and it has not been for the better.

Do you know what the model is?

I think the Ward Melville High School Program will be successful for many years to come but it will not be because of the current 3V Lax / Patriot Elite program. It will be because of the kids, coaches and families. (yes, the coaches, I think that they are good.) I just do not think that the current state of the 3V Lax / Patriot Elite is good for the kids or the HS program.

Parents in the community are trying to figure out what is best for their kids and they are being pushed from a very young age to follow what is being told to them by a small group of people. Is it not OK to question what is being told to them? Should a parent not question what the 3rd or 4th grade "Parent Coach" tells them regarding their son? Is it not OK to question the 3V Board?

I agree, the "club world" is out of control but until you know what goes on in this town don't say people look to the model. The people are looking to the success that 3V and WM have had over the long hall, not to the current model.

Ward Melville is a very competitive place when it comes to lacrosse, if you want your kid to play at WM I would not narrow the path by which you help him develop as a person, student, athlete or Lacrosse Player. But I would question the power structure in 3V.

The topic being discussed is, "Is it a conflict of interest for HS coaches to coach/own for profit summer club teams?"

Yes

Does anyone know how many 2013 boys got D1 scholarships to good schools last year from WM? Express had 20 plus according to their website.

5 plus add 2 who went from a PG year to D1 to the 2012 total. Seems low for the # 1 H.S. team in the nation. I think they have had years of as many as eight. I don't see how you can compare to a top Express team that draws kids from numerous school districts.

What's sickening is you. The travel scene isn't just all about D1 recruits.
Be proud and tell your kids someday? What are you living in Mayberry? This whole discussion is about opportunity for the kids. Not about some made up loyalty to a town or coach. have you seen the cost of college lately? Upwards of $55,000 a year. The kid who's not the D1 player needs exposure over the summer to try and get a spot at a school that has a D2-D3 program. If the boy has decent grades he can get $15-$20k in merit money. He will be pushed through admissions by the coach. If the financial need is there he may get another $10k for that. It's the difference for many kids between a public or private school education. The kid will not get the exposure he needs if one man is controlling how much he plays over the summer. It's all about the individual players opportunities. Let the HS coach control the spring. Let the kids and parents control the summer. Way too much at stake.
I guess this might me too much for you to understand, cause only your future Rabil should be playing, right. Wait till he gets to college and all the kids are as good or better than him. What goes around, comes around. You'll see.

Bottom line, my friends kid went to a big lax HS, could not get on the field, was told he would not get on the field, went to travel and ended up with a D2 half ride. You going to look that kid in the eye and tell him he should have been happy never seeing the field and not getting to play in college ? How do you even justify that ?

WOW! Somebody speaking on the topic whom seems to have some actual knowledge. (Not just another bitter, mediocre player's disgruntled folks wishing ill will toward all successful club players and enthusiasts). Refreshing!

Don't tell me... I am the one who wrote the comment of "seriously"... I went to a competitive d1aa football program over a d1 program. I didn't play HS lax but played summers.. Not much has changed for those who were competitive... If you can't get on the field in HS... You think you deserve a spot in college... Oh wait you must have went to WM and politics prevented you playing... Still bitter.... Chillax

Depending on the grade concentrate on the grades....

Not really comparing, just was wondering how the odds of receiving one of these coveted scholarships differ among a competitive district based program vs a premier travel club. It would seem to me that a kid that is not getting a lot of playing time in his own district that makes a good travel team would be much better off there, if playing in college is important. Numbers don't lie!!

I was just giving D1 numbers. There are also D2 commits that get partial scholarships and many kids that wind up at D3 schools. I know of a top L.I. h.s. program where 2 yrs ago 19 seniors went to play college lacrosse at some level. Would be interesting to see how many actually play all through college, but that is probably subject of a new thread.

Don't tell me... I am the one who wrote the comment of "seriously"... I went to a competitive d1aa football program over a d1 program. I didn't play HS lax but played summers.. Not much has changed for those who were competitive... If you can't get on the field in HS... You think you deserve a spot in college... Oh wait you must have went to WM and politics prevented you playing... Still bitter.... Chillax

Depending on the grade concentrate on the grades...



Maybe, like I said, my friends kid couldn't get on the field in HS, lit it up on club ball and received a D2 half ride. Does that answer your question ?

Bottom line is WM/3V lax system is not ideal to help as many kids as they can get into next level. Whether it be DI, DII or DIII.

IL's latest addition list the top Sophmores. Most of the top 10 cedit thier club teams in thier profiles (3D,Crabs,Express,Leading Edge, Mesa Fresh). Most are in public schools. School Coaches should embrace this. It's a value that is not going away.

Actually, most of the top ten and others from list are in private prep schools, most are also a year older than the typical sophmore. Hardly any kids at all from LI. 2 from express one from team LI and and 2 from 91. 2 others I'm not sure about. Only one kid from LI in top 20. 60 boys featured in total. To make this list you need to be amazing AND be well connected. Playing school and club also seems to be part of the formula. All these kids are either commtted or about to be to great D1 programs.

Not to open the dreaded age debate yet again, but prep school, year older, not from LI. See a trend here? What other evidence do we need to understand what's happening here. Our kids are getting the shaft big time. We need to start demanding that all tournaments and showcases start going by age, with birth certificate proof. That extra year, and in some cases 18 months, of physical maturity has nothing to do with anything right? Once again, take a look at your current average 16 yo sophomore, now drop that kid into 9th grade. That's all I'll say. Ridiculous advantage.

Only problem is that recruiting goes by graduating year. So those who manipulate that (prep school brats) will always put the rest of us regulars folk at a disavantage. What is that saying, "the rich get richer"

BOTC is tired of reading this "graduation year" recruiting argument which is always followed by the "we are at a disadvantage" discourse.

Stop with the recruiting by class and go to the age-based system as prescribed by US Lacrosse. Again, as BOTC shared several weeks back, US Lacrosse firmly stands behind their U-age system. Grade and class based tournaments will be on the decrease as US Lacrosse "grows a pair" and starts putting some teeth into their recommendations.

just imagine ty xanders tweets if that ever happens - U15 attackman verbally committed to Virginia call of U23

I for one would be thrilled if that actually happened! My son who is in tenth grade is just going through the recruiting process. All recruiting is going by graduating year. Thats how the colleges are telling us the determine the needs of the team. For example, they say if they pick one 2016 goalie they are not likely to pick another from that graduating year. They could care less weather the sophmore is 14 or 17. It is really not fair, but I guess that's life!

The college coaches are all to happy to have 19 and 20 yo freshman coming into their programs. Whole deal is a sham.

Cage,

Do you know if US Lacrosse is considering going to a single year U system?

U9, U10, U11, U12 etc.. would make more sense to me. The Current U9, U11, U13 two year system is not healthy at the younger ages.

Ty Xanders makes the list, he is from one of the hotbeds private schools in MD (St. Pauls), of course he favors the prep school elite

Funny that you should mention this topic as BOTC brought this very subject to the table in our discussions last month. US Lacrosse believes that single year age groups would certainly work on Long Island and across most of the East Coast. Unfortunately in areas where the game is still growing, there are many clubs that have an insufficient number of players to move to a single year structure.

The double year brackets are designed to cater to the National audience of Youth Lacrosse and will not be changing within the next 12 months. US Lacrosse did say however that the New [lacrosse] area should be proactive in moving to the single year U-age structure.

Will never happen! But in a perfect world.........

What is going on in Syosset?

What do you mean?

he said some bad things about the other guy, the other guy said some bad things about him, everybody got all like oh no this is a bummer and then everybody wrote letters that nobody cares about then they had a board meeting that everybody went to but nobody said anything at an the team might not get 4th and 5th helmets this year

What is going on in Port Washington?

My guess is that who ever you are, you know exactly what is going on and you are trying to start a public conversation about it, why don't you tell us what is going on in Syosset

Hahaha perfectly accurate recap and one of the funniest posts I've seen on here . Wish I knew who u were bc u made my day

Whats going on in Smithtown is they created a separate east and west "all-star" team for 6th and 7th graders. Only problem is, they are not all stars! Would have been better off with 1 combined all-star team if they plan on winning anything!

Ummmmmm what??? Guess it's all about u or else someone needs glasses.... Bizarre

Your guess is incorrect. I do not have any details, that is why I asked the question.
This thread is titled "Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town". I did not start the topic but it does concern me and my children. I believe there is a conflict and I do not think that it should be permitted.

It should be a "public" conversation, there should be transparency and if there is any impropriety it should be exposed and dealt with.

Since you are in the business of guessing, I will join you.

My guess is that if the HS coach did not profit from Summer / Club teams or camps there would be absolutely "no conflict'. Parents would still complain that their kid is getting a raw deal but at least there would be no conflict of interest to point at.

If there is an issue it should be made public, it should not be swept under the rug.

Man up and ask your question tonight in person 7pm A-1, this topic is about summer teams and conflicts, very weird that you claim to no nothing about the Syosset situation yet you bring up "camp" when it is supposed to be about summer "teams" and still claim to know nothing, you are a pot stirrer. kids need to become a quality player and it will all work out without mommy and daddy crying on BOTC and become a quality parent.

when the system works for you it is OK but when it does not work for you it must be getting swept under the rug. Imagine if you spent years paying an assistant varsity coach to coach your sons town travel team and then just when you need him to help your kids he leaves and goes to coach another school and all that money and all that brown nosing was totally wasted and you get no ROI,

Thank you, at least someone else gets it!

I said I have no details. I know there is an issue. I do not live in Syosset but we also have a conflict in my town. I was told by two people that there was a situation in Syosset. Neither went into any detail other than to say that there was a problem. Why do you want to hide the situation?

Legacy is claiming that the head coach for Syosset is an asst. coach for their 6th grade team.

His son's in 6th grade and his pics are on their website, from the mini stick meet & greet!

And what is the issue. Seems as if Legacy has tapped into many LI HS coaching staffs.

I think that gives their players an advantage being coached by a HS coach.

What is the issue? Are you going to claim impropriety/conflict of interest hence the title of this? get over yourself did your kid tryout if not why stir the pot. How many Syosett kids on that coaches team. Why are you limiting the man from earning some extra $$.

The only issue that should be made public is that the man works extremely hard , cares about all these kids and gives up so much of his personal time that it's mind boggling. Why shouldn't he be compensated for his work. Would any one of you ever work that hard and give up so much time for free?? What he makes off of the camp and summer teams is highly deserved and then some. If you are not high school level yet then you will see all the free time and energy that he gives to these kids between recruiting help, mentoring, getting involved in making sure their grades come first and just overall caring attitude he has toward his players and their families. Other varsity coaches DO NOT do this people , the weaker lacrosse towns in our area like Hicksville have coaches that show up when they are supposed to and do the bare minimum for their kids. This is what separates our strong successful Syosset program from the others. Our coach along with very involved parents contribute to the years of Syosset victories on the field as well as in the classroom. Our sons have attended his camp every year since they were eligible and have enjoyed it more than any camp they've ever attended bc of the hard work that coach and his wife put into making it successful and fun for the kids. They begin working on planning for the following years camp not long after July has ended. This is a year round commitment for them and they deserve every penny. As for the parents whining that since they don't attend that their kids don't get moved up, none of my sons were ever moved up earlier than their age allowed. The coach is who decides this for a variety of reasons and sometimes for something as simple as players size and maturity and not being able to handle it physically or mentally and for their own safety, not just based on lacrosse ability. I'd rather my kid not be in a position that he can't handle. My ego should be the least factored into this equation. Step back and think about your kid and not yourself, their time will come . Most kids who attended the camp all those years with my kids also weren't moved up and many who never attended were. It's not a conspiracy , be realistic and get over yourself and stop making excuses that can cost a hardworking man a portion of his well earned livelihood. And think of the disappointment of the kids who look forward to this great Syosset community's kick off to summer tradition of attending camp in their community surrounded by much of their friends , neighbors, family and the memories they take away as well as what they learn for the week. I know my kids have great memories of their many years spent here with never a thought of this being a power play for the future and what it will do for them.
One last thought, if this is to be considered a conflict of interest than the next step is to stop all Syosset teachers from tutoring within the district and making money off of their students on the side . Same argument , but by taking these two things away the people your hurting most is the kids and that's the biggest shame.

Not according to their website.

JC has probably sacrificed more of his own time than anyone on here, and tons of it on a volunteer, or for-cost basis. Yes, he should be able to make some money, in return for some of the services he's providing, like the summer camps!

One last thought, if this is to be considered a conflict of interest than the next step is to stop all Syosset teachers from tutoring within the district and making money off of their students on the side . Same argument , but by taking these two things away the people your hurting most is the kids and that's the biggest shame.


When teacher finds a student is seeing a different tutor and bars the student from their class then it will be the same. When they hand out "playing time" inside of classrooms it will be the same. I dont know this guy from Adam but theres a conflict in these situations. Players feel unduly pressured to play for their HS coach in fear that their playing time or chances on teh school team will be hurt if they dont . but yes, teachers who tutor their own students often show favoritism to those students

Teachers should never tutor their own students for a cash payment; such sessions are called extra help.

It is unethical for the same teacher to take cash from one of their own students for additional instruction. This is why you will find that most teachers will give a family a referral to another instructor for out-of-hours assistance.

Kind of like the lacrosse coach saying you have to pay to be on my summer team, and if you don't... same unethical situation.

Thank You!

What HS teams look to be dominate this fall? I cant wait for the Shoreham tournament!! WM will be fun to watch!!Northport,Smithtown East and West. Will West I reload this year?

My son only plays for Northport and it's a wonderful experience. Gelling together as a team, local practices, just a few hundred dollars instead of a few thousand for summer ball alone! When you have a program that works why change it. In UMASS they were undefeated against all of the elite travel teams and the state team of NH! Pretty impressive to say the least. We have remarkable college commitments from playing in your home town. Let's Go Tigers!

...and Northport has a lot of drama and politics as well. XYZ player trains with ABC coach so he is brought onto varsity.

That used to be the story at Smithtown as well, only now it's turned into a money grab like all the rest. 1,400 for season, outrageous!!!!

Preseason is out. Smithtown west ranked 1 followed by WM then Stown east.

Same story over and over. Sure it works great for about 12-15 of the top players. The rest of the kids get passed over, limited play time in season an in the summer. Can't get looks from college's cause coaches keep playing the same kids even in summer. Blah blah blah... Surely there are 40 kids who play for NP. Many of those kids who are not in the top 15 could get plenty of play time and exposure from and outside club. Maybe earn a spot a great D3 program. But hey, then one of the parents of the top 15 kids wouldn't be able to come on here and crow about beating travel teams...

How dare you not support the A-- H---s kid who happens to be a stud? You must be loyal, you must follow what they say, if you don't you will not play....

They don't want you to do anything their kid is not doing because your kid could improve. If they control everything and everyone does the same thing and has the same coaching there will be very little change to the depth chart.

Do what you can to kelp your son. Maybe it is playing on the town team maybe it is playing for a club team maybe it is going to clinics and private lessons to prepare for the Showcase events.

good luck to all.

And yes, it is a conflict of interest!

West Islip will be solid this year, but I think the Smithtown schools are the class of Class A in suffolk this year. Ward Melville graduated too many key players. kwurbh

Where can you see the pre-season ranking?

Here you go:



2014 Pre-Season Seeds -



1. Smithtown West

2. Ward Melville

3. Smithtown East

4. Sachem North

5. Northport

6. West Islip

7. Bay Shore

8. Connetquot

9. Half Hollow Hills West

10. Sachem East

11. Riverhead

12. Middle Country

13. Pat-Med

14. Hauppague

15. Walt Whitman

16. Half Hollow Hills East

17. East Islip

18. Lindenhurst

19. William Floyd

20. Commack

21. Longwood

22. North Babylon

23. West Babylon

24. Copiague

25. Deer park

26. Brentwood

Has as much relevance as pre-season college football polls. Doesn't really affect schedule as top 12 teams play each other anyway. Can be relevant to team ranked 12-18 where they have easier path to the playoffs , but they usually are exposed against the better teams. So pretty much same as usual in Suffolk "A".

An how about the HS coach who wear their Club Team's jacket and sweat pants to practice every day?

No different...

How do AD's and schools let them get away with this? Imagine if the math teacher came to school every day wearing a T-Shirt that advertised their Tutoring Company.

Cage, would like your opinion.

Yesterday at Hofstra there was a "Hofstra Committed Team" do you see this as the beginning of a trend?

Will or have other Schools entered Tournaments with their recruits?

What will the HS/Town Programs say ?

BOTC does not have any information about the Hofstra event from November 10th aside from what we saw on their web site in preparing this response. We do not have any information about the teams or schedules that participated.

Given that we have never seen a collegiate recruiting event pull together their future individual recruits into a single team, it would be difficult to categorize such as a trend. Without NLIs in place, it is unclear where such teams would stand in the eyes of the NCAA - and without more information, we cannot draw any conclusions.

I was at Hoftsra and my son's team played "Be the Best" Most kids were from St. A and Chaminade. The face off kid was Hoftsra commtitted. Is this the team you are talking about? Also the trend of "Team Hopping" is becoming big. Many good players are doing it. There is a team going to the Mt. Sinai Tourney in a few weeks consisting of committed kids from several other teams. I think we will see this trend continue. I know some kids that currently play for 4+ teams. Even at the 6th grade level it is happening where some Crush players play for Dune Dawgs when they are available. Not sure if this is wise. Burns kids out running from game to game trying to get it all in.

"There is a team going to the Mt. Sinai Tourney in a few weeks consisting of committed kids from several other teams."

Do you know what the name of this team is?

Heard they were going in as Jesters.

We call them team whores. Adds an interesting dynamic cause you never know what you're going to get! Coaches get crazy, and think "If I only had a sick lefty attack for this Tourney" or " If we could win face offs, we could gain that edge" So they ask kids to do guest gigs at no or little coast. This hurts the kids who are actually on the team!

These are not leagues or even teams - they are group of kids playing under a name at a particular time, it is not like a Huntington kid showing up for a Plainview PAL game, they have rules against it and that is cheating. Or a kid from Oceanside playing a JV game for Long Beach, again, rules and cheating.

In the fall you play with whomever you can get and whomever shows up. you have school football and soccer to deal with as well as injuries,individual showcases, town teams and travel team conflicts. Everybody is scrambling to field a team and of course if you are short you are going to try and get the best player you can and also fill the positions that you need.

"Be the Best" is mostly Chaminade
"Team Dutch" at Hofstra was a team of all Hofstra recruits/commits

Why was Be The Best face off kid who is committed to Hofstra on Team Dutch?

Same old story.
There is a new Lacrosse team every year - waiting for someone to start a team with an honest name like - DEAD PRESIDENTS !!!

Funny story.
I went out to get my paper this morning and found my neighbor Dalton instead.

He was slumped on my stoop, looking as though he'd slept under a marching band. His eyes sported five-pound bags, his right hand was bandaged and bloody, and his face was sunk like a bad souffl�.

"My God!" I said. "What happened to you? You look like a 20-car funeral!"

"Youth lacrosse happened to me," he grumbled. "The Competitive Elite Lacrosse League. My little Ashley made one of those 'travel teams.' Pray it never happens to you, dude."

He explained. "See, I really never thought Ashley was all that hot at lacrosse, and she's only 14. But when she made this competitive team, all the parents said it was a big honor. They said it's the only way to make your high school varsity, and it's the road to a scholarship, and it looks great on your r�sum�.

"I'm not even sure Ashley wanted to do it. But all of her friends made it, so she just had to do it.

What was I gonna do? Tell my little girl no?

"Next thing you know, I'm writing a check for $1,500. Then it turns out, they practice or play seven days a week on these things. And it's clear across town, so pretty soon I'm standing on the sidelines every day of the week.

"My wife can't do it 'cause she has to take Justin to hockey every day. Why an eight-year-old nearsighted kid needs a 42-game schedule is beyond me. What is he, Wayne Gretzky? Plus there's pylon camp and forecheck camp and backward-skating lessons with his personal coach, Hans.

"So pretty soon I got no life. Family dinners? Forget it. Every meal is in the car--righthanded Taco Bell. I almost never see my wife awake. When I do, I have to ask for I.D.

"Then this lunatic lacrosse coach schedules an extra 6 a.m. practice every day. It's like the old bottle-feeding days. I'd be like, 'I got her last time. You get her.' And Denise would moan, 'I had to stay up for Midnight Madness last night. Your turn.' Then, at night Ashley is so tired, we end up doing her dang homework! And we're gettin' C's!

"Anyway, Ashley and I started flying to all these stupid tournaments--Dallas and Baltimore and, my ez92r3God, Ottawa!--and every one is billed as 'the recruiting event of the year!' And do you know who we see at these tournaments? The same damn girls we used to play in our neighborhood league!

Essentially, we're flying across the country to get our [lacrosse] kicked by the same exact people!

"So I start talking to these girls' parents, and it turns out they don't really want to be there either, but their kids were saying we were going to do it, so they had to!

"But then my wife gets to talking to some other moms at Justin's slap shot workshop, and they say we're crazy if we don't have a 'performance-enhancement specialist' for our kids. So she signs them both up with one. Then she finds out most of these girls have 'recruiting consultants' who make highlight reels of kids and send them to college coaches.

I'm like, 'She's 14!' And my wife is like, 'You're gonna tell our little girl no?' Then we add a rating-service guy and a sports psychologist and a webmaster.

"Well, what with me working half time and all this crap I'm paying for and all these trips, I had to take out a second mortgage. Denise can't work because she's spending every waking moment in a freezing ice rink, which makes her joints stiffen up. Luckily, Hans knows some New Age massage technique that makes her feel better.

"So now I'm getting no sleep, turning my stomach into a Dumpster and having less sex than a dead monk. But before I can put my foot down, my boss does. He fires me! And as he's firing me, he adds, 'By the way, the average lacrosse scholarship is $1,000, you [lacrosse]!' So I punch him, and now I think my hand might be broken.

"I stomp out and go find Ashley to say, 'It's over.' And she goes, 'Whatever. I quit today anyway. My sports psychologist says you guys push me too hard.'

"Nice. So I go home to tell Denise, but she's not there. Three days go by. I figure she's at the Elite

Competitive Hockeypalooza in Cheyenne. Turns out she moved in with Hans. Says she wants to be with someone who 'knows' her. Oh, and she really likes massages.

"So now I get home and somebody changed the locks! Probably the mortgage company, since I'm way behind.

"And do you know what I learned from all this, man? I learned that the most viciously competitive sport in the world is parenting.

"Anyway, what I wanted to ask you is--you wanna buy some lacrosse sticks?"

So thats where my wife has been. Sleeping with Hans

Anyone have any insight into Tom Rotanz being shown the door out in Shoreham-Wading River ? Will this affect his H.S. showcase event at Farmingdale ? Seemed like a decent guy the few times I met him. Maybe he will wind up on Rocky Point or another school as assistant. SWR loss.

He should cash in on his experience and do the club route. I would move my son off his current club to be coached by him. He'll draw in good talent because of where he is. Only real talent competition is from TLI. BTW - there is article on inside lax about it.

Would be even better if he was Head Coach of Rocky Point !

Several articles have been posted in the last 72 hours regarding this move by the Shoreham-Wading River school district.

From the Riverhead News-Times

Article Link : Lacrosse Legend Out after 19 years as SWR Coach

For the first time in nearly 20 years, Tom Rotanz won�t be on the sidelines with the Shoreham-Wading River varsity boys lacrosse team this spring.

Superintendent Steven Cohen confirmed Tuesday night he will not recommend Mr. Rotanz to be reinstated as coach and said the district has posted the position and other coaching jobs in the district as available.

Welcome to the world of helicopter parents. Instead of teaching your kids valuable lessons like: commitment, hard work, dedication and loyalty, its easier to tell them they are better then they are, they deserve more than they should and if it is not working for them - mommy and daddy will fix it for you.

Tom Rotanz is a great guy and this is complete BS.

Should send that quote to the Three Village Board.

How about youth lacrosse program running fundraisers for the local HS lax program? The HS coach already runs the summer "committed" team program and now parents are urged to further support his HS team at a fundraiser ostensibly organized by the unaffiliated youth program. Sure the youth program "volunteer" organizers are hoping to get lots of brownie points with the coach for setting this up.

Any hints to what town you are refering to ?

which quote are you refering too.

Stop... it's not about the money. It's all about the kids.

Now that's a good one....

GC

Put your name to it and stop being a coward

and the pot calls the kettle black...

That's the joke. They say they are not affiliated - but they are. And it's the HS staffers who are controlling the process by brainwashing the local youth programs. They say such stupid things like you are in the pipeline to becoming a varsity player - at kindergarten!!!!

Doesn't Three Village also do the same?? I am sure a bunch of towns do the same type of fund raising for their high school programs. What's the beef?

The beef is that any fund raising that the youth program does should go to the youth program NOT the HS program which does it's own fund raising.

The issue is conflict of interest. He HS coach not only controls summer options but now shakes down the parents as well. And the event is run and attended just to curry favor with the coach. Maybe if your kid is on the bubble to make the team he gets taken because you have (financially) supported the coach in various ways.

In Three Village I believe the HS Summer Program is a "for profit business". I do not believe the Three Village Youth Program does any fund raising for that program or for the School Varsity of Junior Varsity Lacrosse Teams.

Anyone see the [lacrosse]'s Lacrosse flyer (good thru 2/2). How does 3V or WM benefit from that? or the Players profiled/pictured?

Not sure how any of that works.

But I am sure that the following is complete BS:

MISSION:

Three Village Lacrosse is a non-profit organization whose mission is to promote and develop youth lacrosse in the Three Village Community by providing activities and programs that inspire participation and fun for all participants while preserving the integrity of the game. Through proper guidance and exemplary leadership, Three Village Lacrosse assists youth in developing the qualities of citizenship, discipline, teamwork, and physical well-being. By espousing the virtues of character, courage, and loyalty, Three Village Lacrosse is designed to develop outstanding citizens as well as outstanding athletes.
Vision

We envision a future that provides the Three Village Community the opportunity to discover, learn, participate in, enjoy, and ultimately embrace the shared passion of the lacrosse experience.

You should double check for facts....

I did not state facts. I said I believe. Please tell us which part is not accurate.

Yes there is a conflict of interest. The situation is made far worse when the HS Coach and the parents who run the town youth program collaborate in for profit ventures and activities.

The Three Village Lacrosse Board should really take out the words "participate in" for their "vision for the future" considering a large amount of kids are not allowed to participate in their youth program.

Both the Mission Statement and the Vision are works of fiction so no need to remove anything.

Pathetic to see all the chicks gathering around mother hen at the 3v fundraiser. Have a little respect for yourselves!!

Be careful 3 Village.........
In order to attain the goals of your mission statement there will be some kids who need to be disciplined and taught the values you have included. The problem is, some of today's parents can not accept that their child is not the most perfect thing on the planet. It only takes ONE nut job parent (As in SWR) to have a coach fired and investigated by the police, DA, FBI etc...all dismissed as complete rubbish mind you but the accused must still defend themselves.
For this reason I believe that kids are missing out on some quality instruction by some quality former players. Back in the day these self important cry babies would have been dealt with accordingly...now they steer the bus. Sad.

In order to attain the goals of the Mission Statement the entire Board would have to be removed. The problem is the "self important / self appointed" members neglected to establish a procedure which would allow the community that they profess to serve to actually vote them out.

It is definitely a conflict of interest. Not sure how it can be viewed any other way.

PAL / Towns should run their own Summer youth programs. The Smart HS Coaches have branched out to extorting their entire community.

Agreed !


But what if the PAL town (SCGL girls) builds a self proclaimed empire (LAX MAFIA ) and is anti Varsity with program beliefs, Decides they will run their own travel team all the way through to High School with NOT allowing input from varsity coach because they feel he is not committed enough ?? How is that handled by the School coach? A parent coach with no game experience but a lot of willpower and dreams should NOT be able to brainwash the youth organization in thinking his commitment will supercede their success in future school ball.
So question what does a Varsity coach do with being able to control a youth program?

In some towns you have extortion, coercion and collusion.

don't forget confusion!!!

You know , its a touchy topic. On one hand the Youth program wants to see the Varsity coach show interest. But its a slippery coach. Say the coach runs a travel program , but with just one age group. Has the Varsity coach said he will show loyalty to players who have been with him for years ? What happens if your son is a year older then that group? WHen they get to HS will he lose his spot to a younger player who may be of equal or less talent but has been on the HS coaches travel team for 4 years ? Should this be allowed ?

The risk is then the HS coach is literally the kingmaker in the town. To some extent he/she may be that to some extent anyway but allowing the summer piece creates problems. What if you're a good player but, for whatever reason, the coach just doesn't like you or your style of play? You might as well move. At least if you are playing on an unaffiliated club team you have other chances to show what you can do and it is not one person's view dictating your future. On the other hand, if the club team also doesn't like you maybe it's time for tuba lessons in pursuit of the college scholarship.....

This has Rocky Point written all over it !

But what if the PAL town (SCGL girls) builds a self proclaimed empire (LAX MAFIA ) and is anti Varsity with program beliefs, Decides they will run their own travel team all the way through to High School with NOT allowing input from varsity coach because they feel he is not committed enough ?? How is that handled by the School coach? A parent coach with no game experience but a lot of willpower and dreams should NOT be able to brainwash the youth organization in thinking his commitment will supercede their success in future school ball.
So question what does a Varsity coach do with being able to control a youth program?




[/quote]

[/quote]

I heard Rocky Point is putting a 5th grade girls team into NCPAL. I would think they would have more than one girls team??

No it should not be allowed .

Collusion, Coercion and Extortion. Are those the towns that make up the Three Villages?

What years are so fractured in three village. When will the rest of LI see if it impacts the HS. or are these boys headed to the privates anyway.

fractured? Please explain.

RP youth girls LAX has become out of control , a total mess to say the least ! The whole organization has looked upto one individual as the messiah of LAX and it isn't the Varsity coach ! Total Revolution .





I heard Rocky Point is putting a 5th grade girls team into NCPAL. I would think they would have more than one girls team?? [/quote]

In my town the boys play on PAL teams and they also play on summer tournament teams that play in tournaments year round. The kids pay for the tournament 's they attend and don't pay for the ones the miss. The varsity coaches keep there V & JV teams playing together year round as well . That's the way to do it and no profit is involved when it is done with volunteer's and when you divide the # of kids by the tournament registration fee.

You are kidding yourself if you think it is not fractured. Even some of the board members have their kids playing for travel teams...express, dune dawgs, outlaws...now tell me it is not fractured if their own kids are not playing for 3village. Stop looking through rosie colored glasses

And then there was silence.....

Three Village program and community were divided by the ideologues who took control of the league approximately ten years ago. There was a small group within the board who ruined the program with their policies and back room dealings.

ten years ago? would 2004 be the year that the group that just graduated was in 3rd grade and starting out? if so I only wish my town had a ruined program like that.

I think they are talking about the youth program not the HS.

Let the HS Coaches coach them in the Spring, let parents and the kids decide where and how they play over the summer. Except for maybe ten programs on LI, what happens on the HS team has nearly zero impact on your son's college lacrosse aspirations. All about summer teams and individual events. If anyone suggests differently, all you need to do is follow the money trail. It will tell you everything you need to know.

Ward Melville High School has had a great lacrosse program for the past 30 or 40 years. Please do not attempt to tie last years success to the 3Vlax youth lacrosse board.

true enough - but they had not won a county title in over ten years and according to the original post that is when the new youth board took over the youth program, and those kids, under the new board rose up and became the number one team in the nation - these are the facts not an opinion, so maybe these policies and back room dealings worked.

Ok..we'll give you that they won everything last year but let's give credit where credit is due. The talent and depth of the seniors last year was unmatchable. 3v and their changes had nothing to do with that so let's not overstate the obvious. Let's see if these amazing changes hold true in the next coming years, but for now here are the facts.

The original poster of this topic spoke of playing for elite travel teams in the summer. 3v does not allow any 3v travel player to play with an elite team....fact. 3v coaches do not get automatic bids to top showcase camps....fact. 3v program turns into the patriot elite program run by the high school coaches once you hit 9th grade...fact. Elite program, under the auspices of 3v run 2 or 3 teams in the summer, teams are mixed grades (not beneficial), teams have roster of 28+ (not beneficial), teams do not attend same tournaments and some tournaments are a waste of time and money (not beneficial), coaches do not respond to phone calls from college coaches (not beneficial)......these are all facts! The poster was simply implying that Elite travel teams will do a better job getting your sons to play at the next level than 3v and the patriot elite program will do....fact!

I am not a WM person and as an outsider they seem to run a great HS program as well as a great youth program - can any of the 3V- WM people out their tell us how many of the kids play outside travel teams and how many play town only?

last years class of 2013 had 8 D1's, 3D2's and a 2 D3's - did some, most or all of them play town only?