BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2021 - 9th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

Understood. But by your comments you are admitting the girls are older. You got suckered right into admitting it without even knowing it. Thanks for playing come again. I'll be here all week. But just a touch on your point. If a team is labeled a certain year whether it be a 2021, 2022 or 2023, then that is the age that should be playing on the field. You can't lable yourself as one of the best teams in the country at a certain age group and have kids that are older. Remember you can't have it both ways.

You're a knucklehead. I don't think anybody has ever denied that the MD girls are, on average, 3 months older - that's the difference in cut off to start school. And just a reminder because you seem to be confused - 2021, 2022 and 2023 are graduation years, not birth years. Whether you agree with school cut off dates, holdbacks or anything else, if the girls are scheduled to graduate in a given year they are allowed to play in that age bracket. If it's a birth year system like hockey, it's different.

2021, 2022, 2023 is merely the class graduation year. And yes the girls on the class grad teams will in fact be graduating in those years. And most tournaments (all?) obviously run the grad year teams. Why? Because that's how the colleges need to see them, based on entering class. Nationals is a different system. It is a U15, U14, etc..... Not all kids, especially hold backs, will be allowed to to play with their grad class based teams. This goes for Md teams as well as anyone else. Then there are some regions that the grad years are actually under the cut off for age based U15 style tournaments. Where decent numbers of players from teams a grad year ahead are eligible to play for the grad class a year down. All depends what state you come from and how they let the kids enter school. Point is, what you may be referring to as a hold back is just a situation of circumstance.

Not from MD, but to be honest, I think this is one of those LI excuses. The school age cutoff for Maryland is calendar year, Jan 1 to Dec 31. On LI and some other places, it's Sept 1 to Sept 1. My daughter has played in the UA tournament the last few years. I remember looking at the birthdates two years ago out of curiosity and while there were quite a few Maryland girls that were on the older side of their grade (that is born Oct-Dec), the two Maryland teams, Baltimore and DC, to my recollection, were almost entirely "on age". Just about every other region, including our own, had several girls that were a year older due to staying back/starting late. If you went to a calendar year age bracketing like soccer for instance, the Maryland girls that I saw would all still make the cutoff. The ones that wouldn't were from other regions.

I think the holdback/age thing is just sour grapes. The Maryland girls are good. Give them their due.

Sorry, I think i reversed the school cutoff dates. But the point holds.

Not from MD, but to be honest, I think this is one of those LI excuses. The school age cutoff for Maryland is calendar year, Jan 1 to Dec 31. On LI and some other places, it's Sept 1 to Sept 1. My daughter has played in the UA tournament the last few years. I remember looking at the birthdates two years ago out of curiosity and while there were quite a few Maryland girls that were on the older side of their grade (that is born Oct-Dec), the two Maryland teams, Baltimore and DC, to my recollection, were almost entirely "on age". Just about every other region, including our own, had several girls that were a year older due to staying back/starting late. If you went to a calendar year age bracketing like soccer for instance, the Maryland girls that I saw would all still make the cutoff. The ones that wouldn't were from other regions.

I think the holdback/age thing is just sour grapes. The Maryland girls are good. Give them their due.

They are good however the age is a factor. A Maryland team called Elite went to Nationals last summer and got beat handily by YJ, TG and Igloo in the 23 age group. Earlier in the summer when we played them in Maryland they were a completely different team far better than the one we played at Nationals. Coincidence?

Age means a lot when the girls are younger. That is stating the obvious. You can just look at MD and LI teams and see that some of the MD girls are older. Much of it may be because of the school cut-off dates. It is less of an issue as the girls get older. Perhaps that is why Long Island won Under Armour at both age groups this past year.

Your statement almost makes it sound like you believe that the UA teams are actually the best players from each region and that there is not bias involved with who makes those teams.

The Maryland girls are great. In fact I think it's the epicenter of Lacrosse right now and I'm not from Maryland. But to say that at that age , whether it be a 7 to even 12-months difference, in that age group is insignificant, then you're being disingenuous. This isn't a discussion who the better kids are. We are simply saying is that at this age bracket and in this point of these young women's lives 6 to 12 months is quite significant and a lot of changes happen in that time period. If you're playing for one of the bigger programs whether it be Long Island and or Maryland or wherever for that matter, then chances are the kids are skilled enough we're good enough to be considering College as a possibility. This discussion is simply with regards to growth spurt timing for adolescent girls. And the differences of girls who have already experienced at growth spurt do the age and those who have not. That's all

That's your mentality. Simply stated by your first initial response. You must be a millennial because you take things so literal. you know what's being discussed here you [ChillLaxin]. Girls with a birth year of 2003 graduate in 2021 and girls with a birth year of 2005 graduate in 2023. It should be a birth year thing for each of those respective age groups. Oh wait a minute ..it is with the Nationals , and that's why the teams from Maryland do not show up. You would have to send teams up that aren't used to playing with each other because there are girls who would not qualify for that tournament does having to play with replacements. If you wanted to debunk that... go to Nationals. Until then deal with it. You know so much about hockey which means you probably travel everywhere for it ,yet you won't travel 3 hrs for a tournament in the next state. I'm not buying it. I know there's a three-month cutoff difference but the simple fact is there are girls who are up to a year older on those teams.

Agree with the last post. I also think it is fair to say that UA teams and results are a fair indication of what regions are the strongest. None of the regional teams are perfect and each region has politics and questionable selections but the best players are there for the most part and teams are playing to win.

Legacy picked up the best TG players.......more like they left because they weren't the best players

The reason the older LI girls possibly won UA was because in the semi final game, the refs took over. Called four yellow cards on New England in the first 12 minutes of the game. At least 2, maybe 3 were phantom. 1 was legit. New England played a player down for over 45 minutes. In pool play, New England beat LI, albeit in OT. So two evenly matched teams. LI still might have won the semi final game. But the girls did not get a chance to resolve it on the field. Shameful. Know the facts, they will set you free.

Nationals aren't done by birth year. They have a 9/1 cutoff which is the same as the MD school cutoff. All the M&D and SW 2021 girls would be able to play there. They choose not to because it's a waste of time and money after a long summer and the programs don't feel the need to post on their website that they are "National Champs". They spend the summer proving they are the two best teams in front of hundreds of college coaches. Why go to one more tournament, where there are no college coaches, to prove it again. Instead our girls actually get to spend a few weeks relaxing, going to the beach, hanging with friends, etc... You know, actually be a teenage girl.

Both you dopey LI and MD parents do not get why UA was brought up. Prior to this past summer the players DOB was listed on the players bios . The percentage of players from the Baltimore Metro and Washington DC who would be considered hold backs using their respective States school age cutoffs was ridiculously high. It was also evident when the MD teams attended the nationals tournaments in the past they were not nearly as successful , why do you think that is.

Not true. The MD girls looked all on age.

Wrong. Very few girls at UA had birthdays prior to 9/1. And the last time either SW or M&D attended nationals they won easily. Stop making things up.

When, 2009?

Do you people have learning disabilities.

If you like I can give you the number of players for from 2 years ago who had birthdays prior to 9/1 on those teams, why do you think UA stopped putting birthdays on the bios. SW won the nationals once and M&D never won them ,feel free to look it up.

on the Command team there were none

What year are you talking about and what grades are the command team.

2016. The last year they published birthdates. Command is rising 9th and 10th graders

M&D hasn't gone before. And SW only went once and won easily. The command division teams for MD have had no overage girls for the last couple years. In fact, LI has had older girls with kids starting school late up there. This is all just a made up excuse by CR and other LI club directors on why LI teams now struggle so mightily against the top MD teams. It couldn't be that our teams are so much better coached than yours. Must be cheating right? You keep yelling go to goal to little susie. It may start to work.

This has been the best post yet. Finally there are more club programs popping up in LI and NJ, which dilutes the talent base. That happened in MD in 2010. While MD will continue to dominate the summer club scene, congrats to SB on the pre-season #2 ranking.

M&D has gone before and even combined with another Maryland team as they did not have enough on age girls one year calling themselves something like NeM&D. Baltimore metro had 10 girls on that command team in 2016 who are holdbacks by the sept1 Maryland birth dates ( some of them were 2020 players who should have been 2019 so not over age for that division but holdbacks regardless) .I can post their bdays if you like . SW went for multiple years winning it once , you can look up the brackets.

Interesting. New England won the Command Division. Not Baltimore or LI.

Nobody cares

Who cares...older, younger same age. Play who you play. Win or lose. In the end it doesn't matter except to a few who want to brag about a win. My mom always said.........say little when you lose.....say less when you win. Merry Christmas

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares

M&D has gone before and even combined with another Maryland team as they did not have enough on age girls one year calling themselves something like NeM&D. Baltimore metro had 10 girls on that command team in 2016 who are holdbacks by the sept1 Maryland birth dates ( some of them were 2020 players who should have been 2019 so not over age for that division but holdbacks regardless) .I can post their bdays if you like . SW went for multiple years winning it once , you can look up the brackets.[/quote]

Interesting. New England won the Command Division. Not Baltimore or LI.
[/quote]

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares[/quote]

You did enough to take the time to respond. While u guys argue about who is too old and what region is better, little old non hot bed New England cleans your clocks. Funny.

Interesting. New England won the Command Division. Not Baltimore or LI.
[/quote]

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares[/quote]

You did enough to take the time to respond. While u guys argue about who is too old and what region is better, little old non hot bed New England cleans your clocks. Funny.[/quote]

First clean your clocks is a bit dramatic in that they would have lost if not for a stick check ( perfectly legal and not an excuse just saying not exactly a beat down ) . This year NE did in fact lose convincingly no stick check necessary . To the people who keep posting no one cares , why are you in a lacrosse forum to begin with.

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares[/quote]

You did enough to take the time to respond. While u guys argue about who is too old and what region is better, little old non hot bed New England cleans your clocks. Funny.[/quote]

First clean your clocks is a bit dramatic in that they would have lost if not for a stick check ( perfectly legal and not an excuse just saying not exactly a beat down ) . This year NE did in fact lose convincingly no stick check necessary . To the people who keep posting no one cares , why are you in a lacrosse forum to begin with.
[/quote]

Well this year New England beat LI in pool play in OT and then played a man down for 45 minutes in the semifinal on some pretty bad calls. Hard to really say. As far as stick check in OT 2 years ago u r correct, perfectly legal, but shouldn't have come to it. NE won on a last second goal in regulation that was disallowed incorrectly. So either way. And in pool play it was 12-6 NE not real close. I would say two very evenly matched teams both years. In fact the two best. Which is interesting given how much Maryland likes to brag. I think Maryland has more depth, but I would say in terms of top end talent, LI and New England hold their own pretty well. And yes I fully concede that NE in order to compete needs to draw from several states (Mainly Ma/RI/CT) vs LI which is smaller. Not debating LI's standing as one of the two best areas for lax. Just happy to see NE and some other areas starting to make a dent.

What an incredibly rediculous forum/thread. We are all dumber for having read it.

No .. it's just when you see girls that are physically developed playing against girls who obviously are not, people start to question things a little bit.. No one's knocking the talent of any MD kids. But the age discrepancy thing needs to be addressed.

[quote=Anonymous]No .. it's just when you see girls that are physically developed playing against girls who obviously are not, people start to question things a little bit.. No one's knocking the talent of any MD kids. But the age discrepancy thing needs to be addressed.

It used to be addressed on the field at the U15 Nationals. When the size wasn't as big of a factor as it is when they are younger. MD doesn't like losing so they stopped going. Age is a factor or else the MD teams would like to go to the Nationals and say they are the greatest.

Nationals is that like Elite, Bluechip, Nat. Championships, Summer Nat. Champ, Fall Nat. Champ, indoor Nat Champ, or any other buzz word they stick on the front end of there tournament....

[quote=Anonymous]Nationals is that like Elite, Bluechip, Nat. Championships, Summer Nat. Champ, Fall Nat. Champ, indoor Nat Champ, or any other buzz word they stick on the front end of there tournament....

Except Nationals goes by age not grade.

They are talking about the US lacrosse national championship, which does have the DOB cutoffs. But is a weak tournament. But the most prestigious event by far, UA, does not use the cut off and "used to " print DOB, which clearly showed what's going on. That event goes by region, and several years I saw many girls who didn't make the team in their own region, ended up trying out and playing for other regions. So you get to thinking, could my daughter go play down in age group next year in a different region so she stands out? Hmmm, she looks good playing her own age, she would look like a stud playing down. Of course if she tried to play age down in the Baltimore or D.C. Region, she would ultimately end up being the same age as the rest of the team, lol.

Ok just went and looked at it, actually never even heard of it and it doesn’t look that prestigious to me. Only see 2-3 good club teams represented in the tournament but yes they are from LI, same teams we play all year though. All most all MD/DC club teams are finished for the year by Aug they might want to think about moving the dates if they want other teams to participate... Anyway there are several other tournaments out there better then that one G8 being one of them which would give you more of a National title then any US lax one. But if you want to beat a dead horse and blame it on age have at it..

Nationals is a great tournament but it certainly does not crown a real champ, it’s realy a NY and Others tournament. Only tournament that gives a chance for all the NY teams to play each other and sort out who’s-who.

I also agree the timing stinks! Delaware in August you can barely breath. Great Tournament but glad it’s my daughters last year going.