It's the start of the Fall 2017/Summer 2018 season. Use this thread for your posts regarding this age group

Will there be girls from YJ teams looking to leave, especially the non-favorite B team girls? One Liberty standout (non-Manhasset) girl looking to move to YJ (would be her third club in three years though). Will some of the girls who sat the bench in the big games on Rose's team get bumped to B team, especially as they move more middies to defense. Will there be any movement between B and the C,D teams?

The girls all talk to each other. Many girls who left TG for YJ are going back to TG.
A few Liberty girls are also going to TG. Grass is greener mentality

Word is two of the negative parents from TG are packing up and going to the Leg uh sea program. Two spots open on Black to fill.

Until it comes to recruiting time...

There are more than that going from TG to Legacy. At least 3 in addition. Maybe your daughter will now make it onto purple from white, with all the openings being created.

Moving to Legacy....I have heard that, I just don't get it, but to each his own I guess

Leg***? please give more info as to why anyone would go there?

Liberty and TG tryouts are the same day, only 1/2 hour apart, which is pretty much the travel time between the fields. Fully attending both with be a challenge...

[quote=Anonymous]Will there be girls from YJ teams looking to leave, especially the non-favorite B team girls? One Liberty standout (non-Manhasset) girl looking to move to YJ (would be her third club in three years though). Will some of the girls who sat the bench in the big games on Rose's team get bumped to B team, especially as they move more middies to defense. Will there be any movement between B and the C,D teams?

Of course there will always be players moving up and down. If you didn't get significant playing time your spot may be in jeopardy.

Yes, YJ B should be overhauled, especially on Def and attack. Five or six C girls (Def and mids) and one or two D (mids) should be moved up while one or two from A will be moved down with the displaced 8 or so B girls filling in the C roster. That's what should happen if you watched all the teams play and look at the names on the roster. Will it? Mt Sinai and the F&F plan on B is no longer cutting it.

Word is YJA will drop 1 attack and 1 defender and one current mid moving to def to make room for new girl. B will look to pull up 2-3. Roster change of 5 unless some B walk away.

Says who?

detailed texts usually are right. But moving down 2 and only taking 1 seems unlikely and where is the new one coming from? Missing details lacks truth....

Says a wishful C daddy. No ones getting bumped off A

You would be delusional if you don't think A will drop


Nobody said only taking one? Just that one new player has been identified. If anyone on A thinks that there won't be any changes they are delusional. New player will show up just in time for fall tourneys before tryouts.YJ A mids are solid and won't be cut, weakest players are on A and D. Someone needs to go

The weakest are f&f and will never go.

New one is Mid from Liberty. CR was talking to parent at U14. Played at Igloo, then at Liberty.

She is not going anywhere. doesn't want to sit on a bench.

CR is definetly dropping players off this team. Will be defenders getting moved though, replacing with middies. The Attack is a strong group. She wants players who can handle the ball, too many mistakes on clears. She made a comment about this on the side line a few weeks ago that was easily heard by anyone around.

Probably the most accurate post so far and weakest link has always been D. Need to find girls who can stop ball and not cause so many turnovers. Some good options on B and C if they open their eyes.

I wrote the original post, and I cannot comment on defenders on C, but I have seen B defenders and they are even a step down from the A defenders. Probably one of the reasons for the B team's horrendous season (besides the entire team's inability to catch throw under any sort of pressure) was extremely poor defense. None of those players are an option. Better off just trimming the roster to 20-21 if outside talent does not try out. CR had her scouts at the Liberty and TG U14 games scouting players and tracking down parents. She definitely approached at least one family, probably more herself. Middies need to replace most of the defenders, after all most defenders in college are middies who get put on the defensive side.

Post is spot on but they will never trim the roster. Probably add one next year because there is too much $$ at stake. Roster size doesn't matter because the bottom half never see the field in critical games anyway.

Most of the game changing talent from the island has already drifted to this team. Don't get excited, there are other girls on other teams that are plenty good, but most any addition would just be a swap of talent with others that could play on the team. The only real stand out player that I think would make a big improvement would be the big liberty draw girl at nationals, but most of those girls are sorta stuck playing for the varsity/club coach.

What ever happened to coaching, not poaching?

My daughter is an attack on C. We have two defenders that should move up to B (tall/physical girl and a smaller bulldog), they barely sat and when they did we noticed the difference. Not sure they are ready for A though. I do agree, the Def on B is a weak point (along with the no pass/go to goal attack) and they wouldn't cut it on A. Best thing for A to do would be to move a mid back to D.

Game changing that's funny.

Not the YJ way, they only poach. That is why they will probably lose to 4-5 teams next year. Everyone else is catching up and passing them.
Look how bad their B team is, even their super coach doesn't do much with the "unpoached" girls on that team. That team probably isn't even in the top 15-20. Probably 10 in MD/Va alone who could beat them. Then there is NJ, Pa. and Mass.

Proves the point, all the training and coaching in the world can't turn your daughter into a shannon unless kid is an stud athlete to begin with. A good coach can only get them to play as a team and cover up deficiencies with good strategy.

The Middies on this team are definitely the blue chip girls with the most athleticism. They are one of the strongest and fastest group I have watched outside of some of the MD teams.

Not to mention at least 4-5 on LI that can beat them. Not even in top 20.

you do realize that C plays in very low brackets so not really compareable? your d wouldn't cut it on B. as for B Many good players on the team, one or two mid/attack moving up. Its the F&F that have ruined that team. Lots looking for something better so maybe room for those c girls.

you do realize that C plays in very low brackets so not really compareable? your d wouldn't cut it on B. as for B Many good players on the team, one or two mid/attack moving up. Its the F&F that have ruined that team. Lots looking for something better so maybe room for those c girls.[/quot

You do realize that C played up in the B brackets and won 3 tournaments, so very comparable. Not only should those two defenders move up but a couple of the attack should as well. C did not give up many goals, very difficult defense to beat. When they did, their goalie made the stop. Same can't be said of B. The B teams D struggled all summer, how many goal lead did they blow in the QFs at Nationals? I saw the game winning goal in OT, 5 girls got beat by one. Not sure why you wouldn't want changes, B had a horrific summer, barely won games. Nobody from B is moving up to A, the A team is light years ahead of our girls on B, C and D. They play at a completely different speed. Don't worry, with the 6-8 girls moving down from B to C, the C team is still going to be very good. Don't leave, your daughter will enjoy it.

The B team has lots of weak D, most f+f, but Enlighten us, which B teams did your C team beaT?

You all need a reality check, other than the top 5-10 players on a handful of the top teams (LI, MD, NJ, PA, etc) at every age group it's all the same when it come to recruiting. If your goal is to play for a national title in college and you're not a top 5-10 player on a legit "A" team it's time to move on and start looking for SAT prep courses

harsh

I don't see anyone comments with people looking for national titles. So thanks for the reality check but completely out of context for the dialogue.

Tell that to the Stony Brook girls, many of them never met this criteria, and they will be a top 5 team next year. Your top 5-10 players on a handful of teams theory doesn't hold to much weight; injuries, and off field distractions, cause them to lose ground and get passed by girls who work harder.

I would tell the SB girls that there are literally a handful of teams that have won a division 1 championship in the last 25 years and SB isn't one of them. Surely you must realize that polls are meaningless and the only one that matters is the one declaring a national champion after the final game is played. I bet you also think the MSG and US Lacrosse high school player and team rankings are gospel as well - lol. With new recruiting rules the college coaches will be able to wait and judge much more accurately the players they're recruiting instead of having CR or SS jam some 9th grader down their throat before they commit to another school, many will not be the player they thought they were getting by the time they get to college - that 4 years is a long time...

Jeolous much? What a loser. Go look at the starters on Maryland , UNC, NW, UVA etc ,many were not the top players on the top club teams you are just too ignorant to realize that .

How is the leg team in this age group I never hear anyone talk about them on this forum?

I don't know much about the starters current and former on NW and UVA. But, of the most current national champions - MD and UNC - you are so way off base that all I can do is laugh. The fact that Maryland's bench is loaded with the girls who were the top players on their various club teams and high schools sums it up quite nicely.

[quote=Anonymous]How is the leg team in this age group I never hear anyone talk about them on this forum?

Mediocre at best

Prob the best LI travel team at this age

YJ or Liberty? The edge has to go to Liberty when it is only 2021 players. Better middies and better on the draw circle than YJ. Plus Liberty won the only head to head match up when they were team only without the older girls taking the draw for YJ.

Beach Bums 21' are the best/most dominant

While I will agree you have the right to say Liberty 2021 is best team on LI as you won the one head to head match-up I think the U14 outcome may be closer to the truth. YJ had 1 non 2021 player at the nationals and she did not take the draw in that game ever.

Beach Bums beat them....that should give you an indication.

Please stop with Liberty already......they got blown out and compete in low level tournaments.

Doe it really matter who is the best? No. If your daughter is good enough to choose between the two than you should be deciding which is a better fit for her. Who has better coaching, will she like her teammates and have a good experience? Where will she get more playing time? If she wants to play in college which organization will be more useful? Being on the best team shouldn't be a deciding factor as both teams are the tops on LI. Peas and carrots.

The same age girl who graduates in the year ahead of these girls did not take the draws at all. And Liberty dominated the draw circle and still got completely crushed in the game. How does that happen if their middies are better? Hard to notice if the middies were better when they are getting completely blown out.

Very true and most teams play about 15-16 kids, the rest see very little action in competitive games

Top Guns 2021 is better than Liberty 2021. They did not get a chance to play Liberty this year to prove themselves. They did beat them last year at the Hofstra Tournament and only lost to YJ at Nationals by two. Definitely the team to watch!

Too many 2020s at that event to make a comparison for TG at 2021.

That never happened.

Didn't TG have 5 2020 girls in this game, and still lost by 2? Don't think the actual 2021 team can even be in the ame conversation with 2021 YJ. Don't think any team on LI can be in the conversation with them.

The age group in general is just not very strong and that is why no one team has pulled away from the pack, it's that simple

Please stick to the Facts people- top guns did not play Liberty at Hofstra last year. Elevate beat liberty in playoffs and then top guns beat elevate in championship game. This year neither team even bothered to attend the Hofstra tourney. Top guns has beaten elevate a few times in the past 2 years but has not faced Liberty. I am 99% sure (trying to jog my memory) that Summer of 2015 was last time top guns vs Liberty in a shortened playoff game and I think Liberty was the victor. But imo it's tough to claim bragging rights in a 20 min playoff game from 3 years ago so it's anyone's guess which team is better now. My money would be on TG.
Regarding the u14's, yes top guns had some 20's (as did other teams) but top guns also had a few of their top 21's out with injuries.
All in all, if I had to put money on a yj/tg game, my money would be on YJ in a close game that yj "out coaches" tg. And I'm sure you have figured out by now that I am a long time tg parent. Lastly, imo the reason that the top Long Island teams have been having a tough time with the top md teams is not because "the age group in general is not very strong", first, I believe that Long Island's top players are more spread out among many teams. Sorry YJ families but I just don't think the top 24 girls in the 2021 age group are all playing on YJ blue. In fact, I don't think YJ even has the top 10 players and second, I think the MD teams practice more and are coached better.

The 2021 YJ team lost to the Liberty 2021 team the only time they played this past season .That has to put Liberty in the conversation.To the people that keep saying it does not matter who the best team is then why even keep score .

With the infusion of new talent on the way and shuffling of some positions YJA will be just fine.

Pretty sure the original post was a sarcastic response to the question about Leg (though we will never know because the poster doesn't know how to use the Quote button), but thanks for the response Liberty mom.

Yeah, 1 non 2021 who was on the circle (arguably more important than the girl actually taking the draw) and made the all tournament team and was highlighted in the US Lacrosse write-up of the game.

YJ had 2

you have no idea what your talking about, so stop, YJ had 1!!!!

23 coach kid and mattituck kid. That's 2

you are completely wrong!!!just the mattituck kid!

12-4 final

Coach kid was rostered but don not play in the tourney. That is fact.

Regardless if it's 1 or 2......it's sad that CR felt she had to bring in a ringer to help the team win. That player was responsible for 33% of the scoring in the final game. CR obviously had no confidence in the team.

you are completely wrong! there was not one coaches kid that was older on the roster!

Okay , so according to you if she did not play YJ would have just doubled up the score 8-4 against Liberty, feel better . Was is as sad last year when DG had a few 2018 kids playing ,or even more sad because they lost to YJ.

Only the lefty attack would have made a difference on the U 14 for TG.

That's your take from that passage. Agenda much? Nice job mum. Lol
Start watching the whole field of play at games and not just the 15 yards that your superstar covers. You may learn something.

aren't there 2 lefty attacks?

Yep, attack. The laziest position on the field, but at least they get to go to goal.


Yep, attack. The laziest position on the field, but at least they get to go to goal.

Not sure lefty attacker would have made difference. BS favors her immensely and she stands out due to her size and left handedness but when she was hurt at the end of the season the team did just fine without her. She is very good but just not sure she is a game changer.

How was the leg a sea tryouts this week?

If you weren't there don't worry about it

Was anybody there.

Why does it matter?

40 kids not enough for two teams.

Doesn't everyone on here complain that there's too many kids on the roster? I would love two teams of 18 kids each and would be willing to pay a little extra for the smaller roster

What age? In 2021 the director told the parents one team of 18-21 max, in the beginning. But they told the girls may make 2 teams at the end of tryouts.

Or you can go to YJ and pay a lot extra for a roster of 25. But, you get a opportunity to purchase a lot of really nice swag.

Exactly. If your daughter is on a team with a roster of 25, you should have "sucker" tattooed on your forehead. Complete money grab -- from the pockets of #21 to #25 directly into the pockets of the club owner. Does not cost more than the price of a uniform kit to add an additional player to a roster. Do the math.

18 huh....ok, try that during a long hot tournament when 2 girls are hurt and 2 are on vacation. So now playing with 14.

I'm sure a number of them have no intention of actually playing with that organization. Practice tryout before the better teams have their tryouts.

Their tryout results are posted. One team of 22.

Any New additions, any surprise leave?

Yes and Yes

How did this team do this past summer. Do they play in A brackets. I have never heard of them and I don't see a commitment list on their website

Just wondering as I debated going to them this year, i see this team getting better and better every year, what positions did you lose key players?

They are a non-factor/non-competitive at tournaments. They do not play in A brackets.

Better and better? They lost their best player last year to YJA.

I received an email this weekend from Igloo about an annual elite clinic where they name 14 Head coaches that are confirmed as being committed to being in attendance for this event (November 5th). YJ teams are attending a recruiting tournament in Maryland that same date and those coaches are also listed as being there. Which one is correct? Igloo or YJ?

Too late...tryouts are done, team is full and will be absolutely awful.
So bad that they will probably play in C brackets.
There u go...all wrapped up for u in two neat sentences.
Now u can move on to trashing other clubs. Enjoy ur miserable life.

Defender who rarely saw the field for YJ Blue. Doesn't say much for Legacy.

[quote=Anonymous]I received an email this weekend from Igloo about an annual elite clinic where they name 14 Head coaches that are confirmed as being committed to being in attendance for this event (November 5th). YJ teams are attending a recruiting tournament in Maryland that same date and those coaches are also listed as being there. Which one is correct? Igloo or YJ?

Do you really think college coaches are bypassing a recruiting tournament in Maryland to run a clinic on Long Island?

Does it make you feel better about your dejected, troglodytic, ignominious little life when you anonymously put down teenage girls. You are the true problem with this forum. Put a name to your posts you nefarious coward. Or simply crawl back into the hole you came out of.

the team will not be awful, they have alot of great players on that team, seem to keep adding great players every year!

You are a bit sesquipedalian. Maybe when you post your name he will post his.

I admit I had to look up the definition of sesquipedalian, but when I did, I literally laughed out loud. What a great touché!! Very clever and apropos.

Played all A brackets last year except one tourn. Have beaten mid level decent clubs such as Phantastics, Mass Elite, Steps Elite, Ultimate NJ, (each clubs a team's), etc. in the past. Mostly close games. Played all top level MD clubs with less success. But they are out there playing Heros Green, TLC Red and Skywalkers Blue etc. Yellow Jackets game rained out at Maryland Tournament this summer, but have played and lost to them before. Tryouts are over, team has been selected, team is mainly intact, maybe a few new girls. No reason to bash the girls, they work hard and love the game, as do most of your daughters. Good luck this fall and spring.

Head coach will be at one, assistant usually at the other.

Meant last season (this past season) rather than last year.

don't pay attention to the nay sayers, If your kid is happy and you are happy who cares? The better each li team gets ,the better the rest get. Have a great season.

I heard a couple girls are attending other tryouts.

One M going to YJA

ok! heard YJA was looking for defenders and draw girl!

LOL.... Bored rainy day, so you figured you will see who you can rile up.

Why so sensitive? Just because somebody plays a certainly position at one club doesn't guarantee where they will play at another? Defenders will most likely come from existing midfielders. Doubt there are better options out there.

That's a good point

No. some realize that Leg.. is not getting looks and the commit list doesn't exist, moving on is all. At this age you need something that's proven to work. next year is critical and playing for a club that's promising to be lagit one day Is just dumb. But to each their own

Just an FYI every girl that committed did it on there own! Went to college camps clinics etc! Had nothing to do with playing with her team! Don't drink the coolaide!

Did your kid get cut from Legacy? You seem to be on here often bashing them when there hasn't been any boastful statements, or claims that the club is superior to anyone. No one is even saying to come play or recommending the club to anyone. So for you to randomly troll shows you have some issues.

How are tryouts coming along? Amazing turnout at Skywalker last evening. Lots of talent on the blue field including a stud from M&D. I wonder how many new players will be added to the new squad?

When do area teams set there rosters? Seems crazy to keep tryouts going year after year. Is M&D set? Hero's?, TLC?

Why should they openly tell everyone that they have it set? They are getting at the minimum $50 a head for parents to chase dreams. Got cash, bring it.

Why are you on the Northeast post???!!

Expecting big numbers today at both TG and liberty tryouts. Lots of kids looking to crack into the top teams.

There are some deserving purple girls and even a white girl who deserves to be on this team. Hopefully they are rewarded for their hard work and the purple girls can move up as the group that deserves to be up there.

I think that always the case but sometimes politics and connections prevail over deserving. I do think you will see some movement though.

West Babylon gang isn't going anywhere...

Liberty only had 40 girls, down from 70 last year. TG looked to be about 70 girls at the tryout.

Are you a Smith? No. So your hypothesis means nothing.

West Islip the new West Babylon or shall we say new cash cow.

And you were at both?

Actually, there were a few at both. But no, I know people who were at the one is wasn't. You aren't friendly with others in the lacrosse world?

wi left

WI is infested all over TG (in a few ages), only a few left but a bunch of the purple players and coach remain. It will be a shame if they all move up over the WB girls.

Your answering yourself is comical. Stop trying to stir the pot. You left. Go be happy if possible. Stop trying to cause division where there is none

There are some deserving purple girls and even a white girl who deserves to be on this team. Hopefully they are rewarded for their hard work and the purple girls can move up as the group that deserves to be up there.[/quote]

West Babylon gang isn't going anywhere...[/quote]
West Islip the new West Babylon or shall we say new cash cow.[/quote]
wi left[/quote]
WI is infested all over TG (in a few ages), only a few left but a bunch of the purple players and coach remain. It will be a shame if they all move up over the WB girls. [/quote]

Your answering yourself is comical. Stop trying to stir the pot. You left. Go be happy if possible. Stop trying to cause division where there is none[/quote]

Exactly.

Yes many wi girls play tg just like many manhasset girls
Play liberty or np girls play yj. It's called not jackassing an hour to practice

NP would be an hour to get to practice.

Do you have any idea how crazy you sound?

At this stage of the game you would think that most of would at least have a bit of clue, but I guess you really can't fix stupid

And this guy commenting and then replying to his own comment is even crazier.

Is it true that Liberty did not have enough girls at the tryout to field two teams? Word is they will create a combo 2020-21 as the B team.

face it on LI the talent level in this age group is not strong. Too many dads yelling for princess to go to goal rather than make the next play.

Listen talent level is there but I do agree with you too many parents just want their girls go to goal.

Liberty did not have enough 2020 girls either...last year 2 teams, this year looks like just 1...curious why the Liberty drop-off...anything to DG leaving Manhasset rumor ?

On TG it's not the parents, it BS himself. Coaching certain girls to be ball hogs. Too bad bc the talent is there but only a chosen few are developed.

Well....the troll is be back. PAL tryouts over?????

Liberty drop off perhaps not because DG may be leaving but more because of the reasons people would want her to be gone.

Care to shed any light on the "reasons"?

Without going into a lengthy diatribe, the bottom line is that HS varsity coaches who also direct travel programs should not EXPECT kids to play for them in both arenas. Nothing but problems, punishment, resentments, favoritism, dysfunction and bad blood. Unhappy kids and parents are stuck. Kids just quit. Zero fun.

In towns like Manhasset and GC, some really good players will not be starters until senior year - if then even. Do the math - lots of kids on travel teams and limited spots on HS team with 4 years competing for time. And everyone thinks their kids the best player at their position. You can't all be right!

Same can be said at top colleges. Really talented high school middies end up playing attack or defense to get on the field.

Drop off just really that year, but if you saw the team you would know why.

Did TG field 2 or 3 teams this year?

Who coaches the leg A team

Three Varsity coaches and the director (part time).

Just 2 teams a B team and a c team

What schools are the 3 varsity coaches from?

Huh....they don't have an A team.

Legacy has one of the best players on LI. Plus you know Jack about the interest already shown in her. Say what you may, they will be a good solid team.

Lol! Amazing how many moms claim their kid is "one of the best players on the Island"!

Don't take the troll bait. Never a good idea to say any team has the best player on LI, only invites more critism. The team will do fine and your daughter's play will speak for itself (if you are really a parent on the team). Focus on your kid, it's a shame that others can't do the same.

Why do u people keep falling for the same nonsense?
Don't u realize that this poster has been trying to stir the pot and trash on legacy for a while now. Not sure why all the hatred.
My bet is that this entire conversation is actually one person.
There is just no legitimate reason to knock teams, players, families, coaches, etc.
BOC is becoming a waste of time. I used to actually get decent info and insight on these threads but not any more. It's become a platform for jealous and unhappy parents to bash on others and I predict BOC will soon b served with a judges order to provide users' IP addresses and may even b held liable when one of these parents cross the line (it will happen) and cud cause a teenage player to do something drastic.
Please let's hope that doesn't ever happen but if it does, I know that BOC would b the first place I'd tell detectives to start their investigation. Just sayin'.

What????? Hit happy hour a little early.

The YJ 2021 Primetime rosters are posted and I see that Bert is bringing down the same team to MD this fall. Same attack and D (the mids can play).....will this guy ever learn??? They barely won a game this summer with that attack and D and now he's keeping them together? Man, I sure hope CR forces some changes on him at tryouts otherwise another long summer awaits the "B" team. Mt Sinai forever I guess, what a mess. Plenty of better options available but the "great coach" won't open his eyes. But I'm sure he'll post plenty of Twitter selfies with the team, so that will be great.

Sounds like someone is a little unhappy that his daughter didn't make the YJ team he wanted her to. I guess she got bumped out of the fall tournaments? Maybe the coach knows the type of parent you are and didn't take your daughter because of that? Maybe stick skills and the inability to take direction from a coach was the problem? Who knows.

I'm fairly certain this team won a few more games that you think they did and at a much higher level of play than previous seasons. This team will be tight this coming season. Changes may or may not be made. Let's leave that to YJ. There is more than enough talent on this team to be quite successful.

As far as the MT Sinai comments, Where do you get this from? You haven't a clue. There are only 3 kids from MT Sinai on the team and they all deserve to be there. When they are on the field, They're all heart and hustle. Oh yeah and they can play the game too.

Why be so invested in bashing a team that your not even involved with? Or are you? Please, Just get a life beyond High School Girls Lacrosse. From the looks of it, You could use a break!!!

Amen, brother

The best attack left.

We are all going invested in our kids, It’s disappointing to spend all your that travel money to play with a sub par group to f girls. It’s not fun losing, and that’s what’s going to happen with that bunch.

Usually when a parent thinks their kid is the best and the kid thinks they're the best, They are not! Not a team player. Not a team leader. Just my opinion. One player does not make a winning team. Parents yelling at the refs and the coach doesn't either.

Well you kept drinking the kool-aide ignoring better club options and now you are paying the price with your daughters happiness and relegated to a weak team. Wake up. You did this not the club. Make better choices.

No, my daughter is on A but we have a couple of friends on B and I know how frustrated they are with the direction over the last two years. And I did watch your team play a time or two last summer, it's clear where the issues are.
If you can't see it perhaps your child is one of the go to the goal/no pass attack or the struggling D (and/or Mt Sinai)? The friends and family plan isn't working. But if you are happy there, more power to you. I just know others that aren't. Mids that bust their butts but aren't being rewarded, they're in a tough spot. Let's see what tryouts bring, the fall tourney rosters mean nothing.

Lots from this team at other tryouts.

As long as it wasn't the mids then this team will only get better with the replacements.

Some middies left and found new homes already.

The non starting mids left. Some d and a tried but couldn't find a home and will be back, others did and won't be back.

Funny how it's the non-starters when they leave, studs when the a new team.

This team was a pretty poor performing team last year. Whether it be the players or coaching (or lack there-of). Doubtful anything can be done to make this team competitive.

Value the ball

The team has talented players. It just doesn't have chemistry. The Friend group is the problem bc they think there kid actually belongs and just blame everyone else when things go wrong. Team is stacked with nprt an ms.

No new talent at tryouts! And some returned after striking out everywhere else.

I really don't understand you or this post. So, YOU and your daughter I assume were at YJ tryouts because you evaluated the many girls that were there in red pinnies and determined that there was "no new talent". Furthermore, you knew where every girl tried out and the results of those tryouts from other organizations, their failure to make the other team, and identifying them and their humiliating return back to YJ. If YJ is a horrible place, why the [lacrosse] are YOU at tryouts.
No, you are just a troll and an internet tough guy.

Anyone else notice that the only team Bert wouldn't let his team scrimmage against at YJ tryouts on Sunday was the 2021 "C" team? Bert's team scrimmaged A and got whooped, they then scrimmaged the "D" team and then a team of the new red pinnie girls. But the C team was kept far away and was never brought over. Hmmmm, very odd. Why would that be? Why wouldn't you want to scrimmage the "C" team? I can only think of one reason.

I agree, why would he want to scrimmage a team that obviously has such clueless big mouth parents.

He's already plucked out the MS girls that he wants to develop from that team. All the new MS girls to the program were wearing Red Pinnies.

I'm sorry, if you didn't move up at tryout you're not moving. Every age group has a C team filled with dads that think their kids are being cheated out of their rightful spot on B. Last, your chances of moving after 9th grade is slim.

Any good match-ups this weekend in this age group?

Chesapeake Invitational: Skywalkers versus M&D Black Sunday at 12:00. I say M&D wins by 6 goals. Payback

YJ vs MD this weekend at Prime Time YJ wins by 2

Stop it. That's silly. Both teams could be missing kids for other sports. Fall lacrosse no time to judge teams.

Maybe you meant YJ would only win 2 if their 4 games today. In that case you would have been correct

No resukts posted for prime time

Why is it that M and D has teams at the Chesapeake Invitational today with the exception of the 21's? And if is the best of the best, which it is, where are the YJ's?

Wasn't just he 2021s. The 2021s and older were at Prime Time today. YJ was there today because they run it. Lot more coaches at Prime Time then Chesapeake. Most the good teams were there today.

They never do post results. YJ lost to M&D and MD United today

Only beat C2 lax by a goal or two as well. YJ looks to have taken a little downswing from previous years. They had trouble in the draw circle, goalie and defense were out of sync. Some botched clears that hurt them, and defensively getting getting beat 1 on 1. The offense was productive and scored consistently when they did have the ball.

Any Legacy results?

CR post the Prime Time scores on tourney machine and take your lumps like a man!

What are you talking about? The top teams were at Chesapeake, especially in the 2021 division. They were not at Prime Time.
https://www.tourneymachine.com/Publ...ivision=h201710061457421646c523dd0af884d

Not good. Not good for any LI teams. But we appreciate the tax dollars and thank CR for hosting her tournament in the real hotbed.

The D has been a problem for them for some time. Goalies are top notch, maybe just a bad day for them

I'm pretty sure BBL 2021 beat YJ Blue also. And M&D black was at Prime Time yesterday, not Chesapeake.

YJ went 4-3 this weekend in MD. Losses to M&D, TLC and Md United. They did beat Md United the second time they played. So I guess that’s good.

Beating MD United is no feather in one's cap. I want to see them with wins over Skywalkers, M&D, Heros, etc. YJ hasn't done that consistently for a few years.

Would an undefeated fall, winter spring and summer tournament season satisfy you. Just wondering.

You're right. MDU is in the second level of teams in MD so beating them is to be expected for YJ. The surprise is that they lost to them. YJ hasn't beaten M&D in 3 years nor have they beaten Skywalkers since they got good a couple years ago when the girls moved down that were playing up on the 2020 team. 2021 is a down year on LI. As tough a time as YJ has had, they are still heads and shoulders better than any other club on LI

Teams are short handed this time of year. Though they lost Liberty, Monster, and Top Guns looked pretty good against Skywalkers, Elevate did not play well and was smoked. Yellow Jackets are coming up this week.

Who has the top 2021 team on LI? Yellow Jackets still?

Agree both Liberty and TG did look good this weekend. I was much more impressed than I thought I would be with those two teams from Long Island. I dont think Elevate belongs playing at this level - they just looked clueless in some games. I think Elevate's best days are about 2 years behind them!

YJ is by far the top team at every age group. Without YJ, Long Island may as well be Wisconsin Lax.

YJ is by far the top team at every age group. Without YJ, Long Island may as well be Wisconsin Lax.

Every age group but 2023 the YJ team is the 3rd best on Long Island.

Legacy 2021 is closing the gap

Elevate is just struggling. Their Blue teams are just mediocre and the players on their Red teams really shouldn't be playing travel lacrosse. I saw the Elevate 2020 Red team lose 20-2 last weekend to a B team. I honestly think that if your B team is losing that badly to another B team - you probably shouldn't be going down to MD or PA to play lax. Stay home and work on your skills! Parents need to just wake up!

Legacy 2021 is closing the gap

Not really Legacy still just a B club

Legacy played at Prime Time last weekend and wasn't impressive at all. Not even close to YJ

Hate to admit it. Legacy is the team to beat. They will smack YJ around. Good attack and goalies. Middies are weak but still better than YJ mids.

2021yj lost to a bunch of out of town teams last summer but also
Lost to a Long Island team. That said I am sure there are many excuses why they lost the game.

A few of the other LI clubs seem to have an age group here and there that are decent, TG, Liberty, Igloo all have one, and yes even Legacy has a decent age group, but it ain't 2021, it's 2020.

Come on. YJ has lost ONE GAME to another LI team since 5th grade. Pretty sure they are still the best team and will stay that way. No other LI team is even close to competitive with the top MD teams.

YJ will lose to Legacy this year. Legacy on the rise. You watch!!! They have players committed already.

Who cares. So does YJ. M&D only has one and Skywalkers doesn't have any and I'm pretty sure it's generally accepted that they are the top two teams at this age.

Legacy doesn't have any 2021 committed.

Really? To which schools? And when did they commit? is this one of those super secret wink wink under the table commits? Keep talking about it and then pretty soon a schools name will come out and that coach will deny it.

This post is not from a Legacy parent. We have no one committed. Someone is stirring the pot. The girls are playing well, they like each other and are enjoying themselves.

So CR took over YJ 2021 Blue last year and now they are going 4-3 in a weekend in Maryland......

Fall ball folks, why all the fuss? CR was not there and neither were six of the girls. This weekend might even have less at Mid-Atlantic.

They did so well against MD teams last summer too....Pretty sure I recall seeing him, sorry her, on the sidelines when they were losing at LFTC and G8

They lost to one MD team last year Skywalkers (multiple times). So did everyone else. If you were at Primetime, short six players they had M&D beat. It is Skywalkers and everyone else.

Right because YJ is the only team missing players in the fall. SW only beat Renegades by a goal a couple weeks ago. New year is here.

YJ wasn't missing 6 girls, they had at least 9-10 subs. at most missing 2-3.

Missing #5, #13, #19, #20 and #73 off the top of my head, 25 players on that roster...

New girls on Legacy (came from TG) supposedly had "wink, wink" commits to Stony Brook.

they should worry about being 13

Surprised dad hasn't made a video about it and posted it on social media, LOL.

Another 1-3 weekend in MD for YJ.

YJ had zero offense this weekend, girls look lost unable to execute plays, unable to play as a unit. Looks like this team has stopped developing from almost two years ago. This team had some potential a few seasons ago. Not so much now.

Welcome to daddy coach who is clueless ,terrible coach , horrible person , thinks get the ball to his own kid wins games when kid is average at best .

The anger in this site is unbelievable. I am not from the NE and I don’t have a dog in this fight but you all are embarrassing. These are kids. Stop with all your bs and let them develop.

Not a normal YJ squad fall, spring, summer or winter. Has to be other teams on the island better?

BBL making appearance in most competitive bracket doing very well MidA this weekend. Any other surprises ?

The 2021 group on Long Island is not very strong

Take the best girls regardless who they know from YJ, Legacy, TG, Elevate, and liberty and you could make 2 incredible teams at 2021 age group. Then another 2 real good teams.

not really

Well MD already has 3 or 4 teams better than any LI team. Could make your statement about just about any region

You, my friend, are truly the silliest person on BOTC...what is your point exactly?

Silliest?? They were saying 2021 age group is weak tough guy or girl. So to point out if you took the best girls from these teams and made 2 teams from Long Island we would give Skywalker's M & D black run for their money. That is a fact

Yeah, silly..and if the Yankees, Indians and Red Sox took their best players and had one team, they would beat the Astros...reality doesn't work that way...but that's ok...keep on imagining a world where all-star teams exist in Travel Lax....

Um, they do exist in travel lax.

They do on the Boys' side. There are a bunch of regional and national all-star teams. Dukes Nationals, FCA National Team, True National...

Is Skywalker a National "best of the best" team?..or is it a regular travel team?...
I think ding-bat was saying that if all of the best 21's on LI were on the same TRAVEL team (NOT National ALL STAR team), then they could beat a Skywalker team....that's just tupid'

If you created a new team with the top 10 players from Skywalkers and M&D, they would probably beat half of the DII and DIII schools. Now that would be fun to watch.

It is a silly notion because A) the best girls already play for YJ and B) if we did that we wouldnt have anyone to bash.
That is a fact.

Both the M&D and Skywalkers losses were very tight 1-2 goal losses right down to the very end. Agree team has issues, but not with offense. Considering they are competing with both of these teams despite the fact that they lost over 90% of the draws actually tells a different story. Would you imagine any team still being in a game after losing nearly every single draw control? Yet they were! If they ever get there act together on the circle, these games go the other way.

Time to take your meds again

I do not think the LI teams are weak at 2021, I think the MD teams are exceptionally strong. M&D, SW, Heros, TLC, MD United and Nems are all competitive. I am assuming that the parity is greater and that LI is better across the board than MD at other ages.

50-50 on draw circle and lost to Heros 7-1 and Heros are not at the same level as SW or MnD

Hardly true now.The self-proclaimed "GOATS" are more like the TOAD'S now (Turn Over Again Dam) lol .

I love that - you mentioned NEMS in the same sentence as SW and MnD. That was good. Thank you for brightening my day. That was great!

Well....it didn't take long for a new "silliest" statement. Of course from Biff in MD.

Whatever you say TLC, NEMS, or MD United dad.

I was not inferring that TLC, NEMS or MD United could beat SW or M&D. However, those three teams are very competitive when playing teams outside of central Maryland and usually play in the most difficult or second most difficult pool in a tournament. I would venture a guess that the top 2021 central Maryland teams have very good win loss records against the teams outside of this area. If you look at last weekend as an example, I am sure that TLC or NEMS would have won or gone 3-1 in any other pool.

MD United lost to LI Liberty last weekend. Guess I am confused.

50-50? Not sure you watched the same game. Green dominated the circle the entire game.. It was t even a fair fight.

You may be right but I just don't remember a dominant draw advantage.

What makes the Skywalker team so dominant? Speed? On ball defensive aggression all over the field?

Fall Ball. Do you really think Hero's miraculously dominates YJ after losing to them during the summer just a few short months ago? YJ was short many players. Summer ball folks, all that matters in the fall is did your daughter garner any interest from college coaches...

well since there was literally like 5 coaches watching the 2021s all weekend, may as well win the games. good job going 1-3

Biggest question is how did Summit elite beat M&D black?

I guess there are no injuries in the summer? Fall is the only time that injuries and teams don't have a full squad? Accept the beating and move on.

No clue.

Can you explain why The tournament rosters are posted on YJ webjste have All YJ A players listed. Are u saying the girls on the list didn't play? You guys have Excuses for every loss, every time. Maybe the B team can help you out. The won all their fall games in the D bracket.

As stated earlier Fall Ball teams are not showing up with their full squad. No excuses next women up. Minutes are distributed more evenly in Showcases as well , in comparison to Championship format.

That's funny. Say "No Excuses", but surround it with excuses.

Can you explain why The tournament rosters are posted on YJ webjste have All YJ A players listed. Are u saying the girls on the list didn't play? You guys have Excuses for every loss, every time. Maybe the B team can help you out. The won all their fall games in the D bracket. [/quot

Just the facts,the following players did not attend 5,7,8,13,19,20,73.
7,8,13,19 are starters.

That sounds like a legitimate reason and the remaining players on the team are only there because of the F&F deals.

Bingo ! ! !

Is a great game, my grandmother loves playing it.

No excuses. The M&D girls played terrible that morning. Whether they just overlooked them or whatever they didn't play with any intensity. It happens. Coaches lit a fire under them and they won the next 3 games. YJ lost to Liberty last year. SW lost to Monster. Sometimes the girls just don't play well and the games go by so quick. Part of what makes all the more amazing that they managed to go over a whole year without losing.

The roster deal is simple, you submit your full roster and not have to deal with adjustments. When you have 26 teams going to tournaments, just makes it easier to administer.

That's Garbage ,YJ submits rosters when the organization gets everyone's payment including the processing fee. They never submit all kids on team

First of all, these tournaments require self rostering. 2nd CR only list girls on the YJ page who paid for that specific tournament. Notice that rosters of blue and gold can be different at different ages (some tournaments the 2021 team has different girls listed). Maybe a few girls were missing but not 6. Stop making excuses, you got whooped, almost all of your girls were there to take the beating (and a few of the ones who weren't, aren't coming back to your team). Missing starters might account for a few goals, but there where a game of two where you lost by a lot last weekend. Stop making excuses and tell your daughters to start training again because everyone else is passing you guys.

First of all, these tournaments require self rostering. 2nd CR only list girls on the YJ page who paid for that specific tournament. Notice that rosters of blue and gold can be different at different ages (some tournaments the 2021 team has different girls listed). Maybe a few girls were missing but not 6. Stop making excuses, you got whooped, almost all of your girls were there to take the beating (and a few of the ones who weren't, aren't coming back to your team). Missing starters might account for a few goals, but there where a game of two where you lost by a lot last weekend. Stop making excuses and tell your daughters to start training again because everyone else is passing you guys.

Angry much , what a loser . Just love when some [lacrosse] comes on here stating things like they are facts when in reality they are clueless.

First of all, these tournaments require self rostering. 2nd CR only list girls on the YJ page who paid for that specific tournament. Notice that rosters of blue and gold can be different at different ages (some tournaments the 2021 team has different girls listed). Maybe a few girls were missing but not 6. Stop making excuses, you got whooped, almost all of your girls were there to take the beating (and a few of the ones who weren't, aren't coming back to your team). Missing starters might account for a few goals, but there where a game of two where you lost by a lot last weekend. Stop making excuses and tell your daughters to start training again because everyone else is passing you guys.
[/quote

Since you have figured out the YJ secret why don't you tell everyone which of the players indicated by their number was in fact playing this past weekend. Please do not name a player merely indicate which number,in fact did play this past weekend in MD.

Haters have to Hate !

Fall Ball. Do you really think Hero's miraculously dominates YJ after losing to them during the summer just a few short months ago? YJ was short many players. Summer ball folks, all that matters in the fall is did your daughter garner any interest from college coaches...[/quote]

Can you explain why The tournament rosters are posted on YJ webjste have All YJ A players listed. Are u saying the girls on the list didn't play? You guys have Excuses for every loss, every time. Maybe the B team can help you out. The won all their fall games in the D bracket. [/quot

Just the facts,the following players did not attend 5,7,8,13,19,20,73.
7,8,13,19 are starters.
[/quote]

That sounds like a legitimate reason and the remaining players on the team are only there because of the F&F deals.
[/quote]

The roster deal is simple, you submit your full roster and not have to deal with adjustments. When you have 26 teams going to tournaments, just makes it easier to administer.[/quote]
First of all, these tournaments require self rostering. 2nd CR only list girls on the YJ page who paid for that specific tournament. Notice that rosters of blue and gold can be different at different ages (some tournaments the 2021 team has different girls listed). Maybe a few girls were missing but not 6. Stop making excuses, you got whooped, almost all of your girls were there to take the beating (and a few of the ones who weren't, aren't coming back to your team). Missing starters might account for a few goals, but there where a game of two where you lost by a lot last weekend. Stop making excuses and tell your daughters to start training again because everyone else is passing you guys.
[/quote

Since you have figured out the YJ secret why don't you tell everyone which of the players indicated by their number was in fact playing this past weekend. Please do not name a player merely indicate which number,in fact did play this past weekend in MD.

Haters have to Hate !
[/quote]

Ok we get it, the best girls were missing and the second string stinks. Here’s a suggestion, hit the wall, practice the draw and enough with the excuses! The more you respond the more you embarrass yourself.

And this weekend Liberty 2019 took down Capital Blue so I do think that Long Island teams can compete!

Looks like a good fall for Liberty 2019 - Skywalkers and Capital are nice wins.

In what universe did Liberty beat Skywalkers?

If you must know and you can probably still look up the score online, Liberty beat Skywalkers on 11/4/7 at the Chesapeake invitational. Liberty 2019 Black beat SW Blue 7-6. That would be the universe - Thanks

Liberty is ridiculous . Seriously you are bragging about beating teams who have virtually all their players committed so they no longer show up to showcase tournaments ,desperation.

So if they would have beat them when they were in 5th grade that would have been more meaningful? You sound like you spend your life making excuses, must be interesting to be you and being able to rationalize all of your failures in life. Don't pass that on to your child.

You definitely do not know anything about the Maryland teams. They keep their teams together through the year - there are no differences between the spring, summer or fall rosters, especially once they get into the high school years. Liberty 2019 black played really well against a solid skywalkers team and won by 1 goal. And as far as trying to say that skywalkers had no players - look at the score after their game against TG black. They won by 4.
An example of the way Maryland teams keep their players together throughout the year - Liberty followed up the win against Skywalkers by losing 5-13 against heros. The game was actually close up until the half. I would say that overall - Liberty had a respectable weekend and I have no involvement with Liberty.

Don't pass your ignorance onto your child . You are bragging about beating a team in a showcase tournament down in Florida when almost every top team in the age does not have their normal rosters . I looked at my kids team 2 players from her summer team were rostered . Beat them in a championship summer tournament that will have some meaning and even then don't come on this site bragging about it as that's just weak.

This Liberty person is on several threads, yelling from the rooftops about this 2019 Skywalkers beat down. Why is it even on 2021? Take it to 2019.

Sorry I was confused since this is a 9th grade thread, not 11th. Hop on the correct one..,

YJ rosters being posted this weekend....any thoughts on the B team making some much needed attack and D changes?

I do have some thoughts on this.... I think you must be the obnoxious parent of a midfielder.

Scrap the whole team and start all over. The best this team will be is King of the C's.

This is my first and last visit to this forum. You folks are ruining your kids. I see you on the sidelines coaching your daughter to "go to the goal" I see you at the tents over indulging with your red cups and preaching like you coached D1 women in a prior life when you never even picked the stick up in the men's game. Let alone have an understanding of how the women's game works.

To see you fools trying to handicap a freshman fall ball game by predicting a team will win or lose by a X number of points proves that you are completely unhinged and need to check your crazy self into South Oaks like right now.

For the special brand of fool who sees this as an "investment" do yourself a favor and take the money you are spending on travel lacrosse and put it in a 529 account, you will see a greater ROI.

The true role of Lacrosse in my mind is making the difference between your daughter and other students who are "similar." In other terms if my daughter has a 98 average, and 690/720 board scores, active in LoTE and Science Honor Societies as well as GS. She adds varsity lacrosse to her CV as something that will set her aside from her 15 other classmates who putting up similar numbers and activities.

Your an [ChillLaxin], admissions could not care less that your kid plays lacrosse and if a coach has interest in your kid those other 15 classmates will have no impact. I see travel lacrosse as an investment and if you don't you are a fool, its too expensive and time consuming not to be looked at as an investment. Not as a way to get a scholarship but an investment into making my kid a better player, learning lessons that sports provide, making friends , helping get into a school she may otherwise not be able to get in, and most of all spending time together.

nah, you'll be back...BOTC is the fix you need for your Lax jones....

Looks like that's is how it will be. No improvement, it may be worse

But they added 2 coaches Daughters. They are now the D team.

YJ at 2021 continues to head straight towards mediocrity. The top team added no one, lost 1 possibly two girls. No one to do the draw. Second team gained no one, third team is gaining if not passing the 2nd team here. Very weak age group for YJ. Even in the 4th and 5th level of tourns the 2nd and 3rd team play in, the will still be a 500team. The top team will be looking at more loses that any other year, and may lose again to at least one, if not two LI teams (I won’t pick who, leave that up to speculation).

Jimmy the great you ant. They do well on the top team against the MD clubs. They beat top guns black bad the only time they played last year. No one on Long Island will beat the A or B team. The will have a hard time with yj c team.

The C team won three tourneys last year and they have now passed the B team, especially because Bert was stubborn and made no changes. There's a reason the C team was the only team not to scrimmage Bert's during tryouts......

Two years of moaning and your kid still hasn’t moved up! Maybe Bert is just a better judge of talent then you give him credit for? Time to stop the drivel and accept your daughters place in the YJ organization or move on....

TG 2021 Black never played YJ last year. Not sure what your talking about.

[quote=Anonymous]Jimmy the great you ant. They do well on the top team against the MD clubs. They beat top guns black bad the only time they played last year. No one on Long Island will beat the A or B team. The will have a hard time with yj c team.

Are you referring to the Nationals when YJ Blue beat TG Black 8-6? Oh yeah that was old fashioned beat down.

Top Gun Black was very competitive at Nationals they did have (6) players from their 2020 team while YJ had (1) who were age eligible joining them. Not exactly representative of either teams normal 2021 squads.

This year's TG black team is not beating YJA. They lost all of their talent in the past 2 years and picked up a lot of B players. They would beat JYB but not A. And they would def beat YJC lol!

YJ "D" would beat them now.. Most of their middies are from TG. LOL B,C, and D are all pretty equal.

This year's TG black team is not beating YJA. They lost all of their talent in the past 2 years and picked up a lot of B players. They would beat JYB but not A. And they would def beat YJC lol!

Legacy picked up the best TG players from last year and YJ got one of their attack players and the stud goalie the year before.

Top Gun Black was very competitive at Nationals they did have (6) players from their 2020 team while YJ had (1) who were age eligible joining them. Not exactly representative of either teams normal 2021 squads.

TG only had (6) 2020 girls I heard it was a lot more than that or they wouldn't have been able to compete with YJ Blue a juggernaut of a team.

YJ 2021 Blue is a juggernaut of a team? Maybe if they stay on LI. Can't beat any top MD club. Haven't in years.

Pretty sure you missed the sarcasm !

And since you are ignorant of the facts your opinion is stupid and uninformed.

Legacy is the Long Island team to beat. The 2 TG additions have turned the whole program around. Even the younger ages will be better now that they have arrived.

YJ "C" would beat "B" (B only has an advantage in goal, both B goalies are very good), YJ "D" is a notch below but has some talent

Easy now Daddy. .

We know already YJC is secretly the best YJ team! They win lots of tournaments playing other C teams that are secretly A teams! Seriosy why else would anyone pay to play on a C team? You really should stop telling everyone or they will all be lining up to be on the C team and your kid may lose her spot to a family or friend of CR.

Easy now Daddy. .

Don't underestimate Legacy they are a solid group.

I agree. Legacy may be top team on LI this year. Will give MD teams big time trouble. Mids and attack are on the weaker side but team is solid. Will beat YJ this year.

Thanks goalie mom.

This year's TG black team is not beating YJA. They lost all of their talent in the past 2 years and picked up a lot of B players. They would beat JYB but not A. And they would def beat YJC lol!

Legacy picked up the best TG players from last year and YJ got one of their attack players and the stud goalie the year before.
[/quote]
Easy now Daddy. .

Don't underestimate Legacy they are a solid group.
[/quote]
they are a solid group, not underestimating that team at all. Just saying you don't need to keep telling us how great your kid is.

Easy now Daddy. .

Don't underestimate Legacy they are a solid group.
[/quote]
they are a solid group, not underestimating that team at all. Just saying you don't need to keep telling us how great your kid is.[/quote]

It sounded like they did add some quality players and were expecting a big difference for the fall ball. I know several of the parents and they were very disappointed with how the team played this past fall. Maybe they get it together, maybe not, but last game I saw them play, they still have a ways to go, so the self proclaiming of the "team to beat" may be premature.

Both of these are most likely from the guy who stalks the WI girls here on this forum (especially the latter comment). He stalked them on the TG discussion, now stalks them here, now the are playing for Legacy. (They left TG and found a new place to play, let them be, they are no longer around you.) How could a team be a top team and have a realistic chance of competing with Md teams if the Mids and Attack are on the weaker side. They wouldn't be able to, but as an agitator he/she must come on here and try to stir up problems for them and who-ever they associate with. Please crawl back into your hole of misery and ineptitude.

Having played Legacy and YJ this fall the Legacy parents are being delusional here. The teams aren't close. Not to say that it's impossible that Legacy could beat YJ in a game as things like that happen. But the teams are not close. Legacy cannot compete with the top MD teams. YJ on the other hand may not have beaten them in a while, but they are always very competitive in MD.

Someone is stirring the pot that is not a Legacy parent. We did get better with the new additions and will continue to improve individually and collectively.

All of the top teams at this age are very even. YJ has not figured out the draw and that has been the difference.

Enjoy another long summer on B dad, it has got to frustrate you. Travel all that way for another summer of beatdowns, ugh. But at least your daughter will be in a bunch of Bert's selfies on Twitter, lol

Apparently YJ is getting an attack from Legacy. Now we are roster of 25. Where is playing time coming from?

So 24 was OK, but you're worried about 25?

CR wants more chrome on her next truck and bigger tires - she's going to try and get 27 players for that team. Quantity over quality seems to be the new motto.

Not getting. Got. It really speaks to the level the YJ has fallen.

Fallen. That’s funny. Name one LI club outside 2023 that can beat YJs

Interesting. When did YJ become satisfied with being the best team on LI? I guess when they stopped being able to beat any top MD teams. Yes YJ has fallen. No grade prior to 2021 went 3 years without beating M&D or Skywalkers.

False. 18, 19 and 20s beat plenty of MD teams( M&D, Skywalkers, MD United Hero's). Please get you facts straight

Just for the record YJ 2023 beat Skywalker's, Hero's Green and MD United at the Lax for the Cure Tournament . I think the Long Island players are better. I would just like to play those Maryland teams in a birth year only tournament and see what's up. This holding back and having kids on the field that are 12 to 16 months older is ridiculous. At this age for girls and makes a massive difference.

I thought she was going to SB so why jump teams now?

Read much? I said that no grade prior to 2021 went 3 years WITHOUT beating the top MD teams. Point was that YJ are slipping as the 2021 team has not been able to have the same success as the teams you listed.

Knock it off. Girls don't holdback like boys do. The girls schools don't allow it. I know the LI club directors feed you that excuse on why you can't beat the MD teams consistently, but it's just not true.

LOL I think that's what they were saying, ie they were bashing 2021 saying they have not beaten the better MD teams .

It seems to be a two horse race in MD between Skywalkers and MnD. Everyone else seems to be trying to catch up.

That's not just the race in MD. They are clearly the top two teams in the country.

Not a strong team to begin with, so where does Legacy stand now?

Did one of the new kids defect or already?

Clearly

No different kid.

There were no commits from legacy on 2021, maybe one in 2020

Which team? Will stink for whoever becomes the ninth attacker. Might be time to look at some other options, not a good age to ride the bench. Sounds like legacy might have an opening.

Then explain why two years ago when UA posted players DOB more than half the Baltimore metro and 3/4 of the DC team would be considered hold back ages. Long Island had a few 2-3 but also had a few that would have been considered normal for the age below if they lived in MD.

This is actually true news. Is that what they call it now? Anyway, yes Under Armour prints up the All American book every year with info on every player selected, and yes they included the age group and the region and the date of birth. It caused a big stir. Notice last year they deliberately left the date of birth out! I really could care less if the kids are several months older on average. Don't need to make up an excuse as to why the md kids are so competitive. Bottom line is they are good lacrosse players, just like many of the girls from LI, NJ, CT, VA, NC, MA....... let's get passed the age thing.

If they played by birth years and there are no holdbacks, then why aren't these teams at the Nationals. The folks at the NATIONALS cited that age discrepancy was the reason the big MD teams where not there. I really could give a [ChillLaxin], but 12 months is a huge thing when we are discussing 11/12 year olds. Especially girls. I still think the Maryland girls are very good lax players. Very good.

The age rule has nothing to do with why the MD teams don't go to the nationals. M&D plays in 5 summer tournaments already. There is no reason to play in more. I can tell you at 2021 there is not a single girl on M&D or Skywalkers that have repeated a grade or went to prefirst or anything like that. There is no competition at the "Nationals" and it's not worth making everyone travel to wherever they have them each year to play crappy teams from other parts of the country.

This topic is so done. Here is the deal, MD as a state has a different cut off date for entering a school year. It is a few months earlier than other regions. So while a girl may never have skipped a year or have been held back, there are a percentage of girls who would had to of been held back in other regions in order to be in the age group. They are not to be considered holdbacks, but they are older, and they would miss the cut offs for nationals. Who cares, move on.

That's fair, but stop with they play 5 tournaments, no competition and too far to travel.

The reason people don't move on is because your explanation is [ChillLaxin]. It does not explain the large numbers of players at UA who were not on age no matter what state they were from. The truth is there are many who have held their kids back for competitive advantage and it is a major advantage. The other truth is there are parents who are mad that they did not do the same or are mad because they view it as cheating. Take five or so players from any LI UA team play them down in age and those games will not even be close.
The we do five tournaments thing is a joke as the MD clubs attended the event years ago when it was in Florida its just they would rarely win it so they gave up.

The age cutoff for nationals is the same as MD school cutoff. The ages of the girls is not why we don’t go. It is the travel, cost, lack of competition, and the fact that the girls can use a break

Don't ever list NC ahead of MA in women's lacrosse. Thank you.

How much to attend Mcdonough a year?

Just a matter of safety. If they are supposed to be a certain birth year, then they should be . Maybe if these teams showed to an event such as Nationals, perhaps it would kill this argument . I know one parent (cousin) and her daughter is 13 months older than my daughter. That's why people care. It size , bone density and speed that makes all the difference in the world . If you think it doesn't , thats because you are probably violating it. But don't tell me they don't hold girls back because it happens .

Safety is not a valid argument, at least at this age. The top girls (like the ones typically found on these level of teams) have are about to play with girls that are 3-4 years older than them during the HS season. Most of the same parents who complain about the holdbacks are the same parents that complain when their daughter doesn't get pulled up to Varsity in 8th grade. Can't have it both ways

You are also forgetting that everyone from other parts of the country have helped to condition the MD teams so that they are not motivated to go down to Nationals. I really cannot blame the MD teams for not wanting to go down to Richmond, or NC or any of those other destinations to play. Yeah - there is a chance to play some great games - but, there are also crappy games. And who will they end up playing down there - YJ or TG or Steps? That's funny, they're passing. Why do they need to go down there and leave MD? Everyone else goes to MD for at least 4, 5 or maybe 6 tournaments. They don't need to go anywhere to find the good games. Unlike YJ - who has to go to MD to play MnD, heros, skywalkers, TLC and Capital - those guys don't need to go far and can have some really competitive games. I don't think it's 100% because of the age cut off. Why do they need to leave home and pay for hotels and etc - when LI and everyone else will come to them. Did you ever notice at Nationals there are some MD teams that do show up that you've never heard of.

Actually, M&D and SW are playing out of town all summer with the exception of 1. Summer Genesis in Hershey, Champions Cup in Richmond, Lax for the Cure in NJ and G8 in NJ. None of those girls have repeated a grade, it's just not worth going to nationals to play another out of town tournament that late in the summer. They can play all the top teams in all 5 of the tournaments they already play in. Why go out of state to play teams from Michigan and Indiana and other places that can't compete with them. Yes, they may play YJ in the playoffs, but they will have already played them a few times already. What's the point other than to post it on your website that you are National Champions. That's funny when YJ hasn't beaten SW or M&D for years, but sure, they are the National Champions.

In terms of the safety argument....Don't LI girls start playing Varsity lacrosse in 8th and sometimes 7th grade? Our girls can't do that. So you are telling me you aren't worried about their safety playing against girls 4 or 5 years older but you are worried about playing girls that may be 3 or 4 months olders? Makes no sense.

The legacy team picked up the best TG players last year from the black team. Really my daughter is on the TG black and I know a few girls left but they were not the best players. Daddy keep drinking the Kool Aid and get a grip your kid is pretty good but not the best. LMAO You keep screeming from the sidelin

Understood. But by your comments you are admitting the girls are older. You got suckered right into admitting it without even knowing it. Thanks for playing come again. I'll be here all week. But just a touch on your point. If a team is labeled a certain year whether it be a 2021, 2022 or 2023, then that is the age that should be playing on the field. You can't lable yourself as one of the best teams in the country at a certain age group and have kids that are older. Remember you can't have it both ways.

You're a knucklehead. I don't think anybody has ever denied that the MD girls are, on average, 3 months older - that's the difference in cut off to start school. And just a reminder because you seem to be confused - 2021, 2022 and 2023 are graduation years, not birth years. Whether you agree with school cut off dates, holdbacks or anything else, if the girls are scheduled to graduate in a given year they are allowed to play in that age bracket. If it's a birth year system like hockey, it's different.

2021, 2022, 2023 is merely the class graduation year. And yes the girls on the class grad teams will in fact be graduating in those years. And most tournaments (all?) obviously run the grad year teams. Why? Because that's how the colleges need to see them, based on entering class. Nationals is a different system. It is a U15, U14, etc..... Not all kids, especially hold backs, will be allowed to to play with their grad class based teams. This goes for Md teams as well as anyone else. Then there are some regions that the grad years are actually under the cut off for age based U15 style tournaments. Where decent numbers of players from teams a grad year ahead are eligible to play for the grad class a year down. All depends what state you come from and how they let the kids enter school. Point is, what you may be referring to as a hold back is just a situation of circumstance.

Not from MD, but to be honest, I think this is one of those LI excuses. The school age cutoff for Maryland is calendar year, Jan 1 to Dec 31. On LI and some other places, it's Sept 1 to Sept 1. My daughter has played in the UA tournament the last few years. I remember looking at the birthdates two years ago out of curiosity and while there were quite a few Maryland girls that were on the older side of their grade (that is born Oct-Dec), the two Maryland teams, Baltimore and DC, to my recollection, were almost entirely "on age". Just about every other region, including our own, had several girls that were a year older due to staying back/starting late. If you went to a calendar year age bracketing like soccer for instance, the Maryland girls that I saw would all still make the cutoff. The ones that wouldn't were from other regions.

I think the holdback/age thing is just sour grapes. The Maryland girls are good. Give them their due.

Sorry, I think i reversed the school cutoff dates. But the point holds.

Not from MD, but to be honest, I think this is one of those LI excuses. The school age cutoff for Maryland is calendar year, Jan 1 to Dec 31. On LI and some other places, it's Sept 1 to Sept 1. My daughter has played in the UA tournament the last few years. I remember looking at the birthdates two years ago out of curiosity and while there were quite a few Maryland girls that were on the older side of their grade (that is born Oct-Dec), the two Maryland teams, Baltimore and DC, to my recollection, were almost entirely "on age". Just about every other region, including our own, had several girls that were a year older due to staying back/starting late. If you went to a calendar year age bracketing like soccer for instance, the Maryland girls that I saw would all still make the cutoff. The ones that wouldn't were from other regions.

I think the holdback/age thing is just sour grapes. The Maryland girls are good. Give them their due.

They are good however the age is a factor. A Maryland team called Elite went to Nationals last summer and got beat handily by YJ, TG and Igloo in the 23 age group. Earlier in the summer when we played them in Maryland they were a completely different team far better than the one we played at Nationals. Coincidence?

Age means a lot when the girls are younger. That is stating the obvious. You can just look at MD and LI teams and see that some of the MD girls are older. Much of it may be because of the school cut-off dates. It is less of an issue as the girls get older. Perhaps that is why Long Island won Under Armour at both age groups this past year.

Your statement almost makes it sound like you believe that the UA teams are actually the best players from each region and that there is not bias involved with who makes those teams.

The Maryland girls are great. In fact I think it's the epicenter of Lacrosse right now and I'm not from Maryland. But to say that at that age , whether it be a 7 to even 12-months difference, in that age group is insignificant, then you're being disingenuous. This isn't a discussion who the better kids are. We are simply saying is that at this age bracket and in this point of these young women's lives 6 to 12 months is quite significant and a lot of changes happen in that time period. If you're playing for one of the bigger programs whether it be Long Island and or Maryland or wherever for that matter, then chances are the kids are skilled enough we're good enough to be considering College as a possibility. This discussion is simply with regards to growth spurt timing for adolescent girls. And the differences of girls who have already experienced at growth spurt do the age and those who have not. That's all

That's your mentality. Simply stated by your first initial response. You must be a millennial because you take things so literal. you know what's being discussed here you [ChillLaxin]. Girls with a birth year of 2003 graduate in 2021 and girls with a birth year of 2005 graduate in 2023. It should be a birth year thing for each of those respective age groups. Oh wait a minute ..it is with the Nationals , and that's why the teams from Maryland do not show up. You would have to send teams up that aren't used to playing with each other because there are girls who would not qualify for that tournament does having to play with replacements. If you wanted to debunk that... go to Nationals. Until then deal with it. You know so much about hockey which means you probably travel everywhere for it ,yet you won't travel 3 hrs for a tournament in the next state. I'm not buying it. I know there's a three-month cutoff difference but the simple fact is there are girls who are up to a year older on those teams.

Agree with the last post. I also think it is fair to say that UA teams and results are a fair indication of what regions are the strongest. None of the regional teams are perfect and each region has politics and questionable selections but the best players are there for the most part and teams are playing to win.

Legacy picked up the best TG players.......more like they left because they weren't the best players

The reason the older LI girls possibly won UA was because in the semi final game, the refs took over. Called four yellow cards on New England in the first 12 minutes of the game. At least 2, maybe 3 were phantom. 1 was legit. New England played a player down for over 45 minutes. In pool play, New England beat LI, albeit in OT. So two evenly matched teams. LI still might have won the semi final game. But the girls did not get a chance to resolve it on the field. Shameful. Know the facts, they will set you free.

Nationals aren't done by birth year. They have a 9/1 cutoff which is the same as the MD school cutoff. All the M&D and SW 2021 girls would be able to play there. They choose not to because it's a waste of time and money after a long summer and the programs don't feel the need to post on their website that they are "National Champs". They spend the summer proving they are the two best teams in front of hundreds of college coaches. Why go to one more tournament, where there are no college coaches, to prove it again. Instead our girls actually get to spend a few weeks relaxing, going to the beach, hanging with friends, etc... You know, actually be a teenage girl.

Both you dopey LI and MD parents do not get why UA was brought up. Prior to this past summer the players DOB was listed on the players bios . The percentage of players from the Baltimore Metro and Washington DC who would be considered hold backs using their respective States school age cutoffs was ridiculously high. It was also evident when the MD teams attended the nationals tournaments in the past they were not nearly as successful , why do you think that is.

Not true. The MD girls looked all on age.

Wrong. Very few girls at UA had birthdays prior to 9/1. And the last time either SW or M&D attended nationals they won easily. Stop making things up.

When, 2009?

Do you people have learning disabilities.

If you like I can give you the number of players for from 2 years ago who had birthdays prior to 9/1 on those teams, why do you think UA stopped putting birthdays on the bios. SW won the nationals once and M&D never won them ,feel free to look it up.

on the Command team there were none

What year are you talking about and what grades are the command team.

2016. The last year they published birthdates. Command is rising 9th and 10th graders

M&D hasn't gone before. And SW only went once and won easily. The command division teams for MD have had no overage girls for the last couple years. In fact, LI has had older girls with kids starting school late up there. This is all just a made up excuse by CR and other LI club directors on why LI teams now struggle so mightily against the top MD teams. It couldn't be that our teams are so much better coached than yours. Must be cheating right? You keep yelling go to goal to little susie. It may start to work.

This has been the best post yet. Finally there are more club programs popping up in LI and NJ, which dilutes the talent base. That happened in MD in 2010. While MD will continue to dominate the summer club scene, congrats to SB on the pre-season #2 ranking.

M&D has gone before and even combined with another Maryland team as they did not have enough on age girls one year calling themselves something like NeM&D. Baltimore metro had 10 girls on that command team in 2016 who are holdbacks by the sept1 Maryland birth dates ( some of them were 2020 players who should have been 2019 so not over age for that division but holdbacks regardless) .I can post their bdays if you like . SW went for multiple years winning it once , you can look up the brackets.

Interesting. New England won the Command Division. Not Baltimore or LI.

Nobody cares

Who cares...older, younger same age. Play who you play. Win or lose. In the end it doesn't matter except to a few who want to brag about a win. My mom always said.........say little when you lose.....say less when you win. Merry Christmas

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares

M&D has gone before and even combined with another Maryland team as they did not have enough on age girls one year calling themselves something like NeM&D. Baltimore metro had 10 girls on that command team in 2016 who are holdbacks by the sept1 Maryland birth dates ( some of them were 2020 players who should have been 2019 so not over age for that division but holdbacks regardless) .I can post their bdays if you like . SW went for multiple years winning it once , you can look up the brackets.[/quote]

Interesting. New England won the Command Division. Not Baltimore or LI.
[/quote]

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares[/quote]

You did enough to take the time to respond. While u guys argue about who is too old and what region is better, little old non hot bed New England cleans your clocks. Funny.

Interesting. New England won the Command Division. Not Baltimore or LI.
[/quote]

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares[/quote]

You did enough to take the time to respond. While u guys argue about who is too old and what region is better, little old non hot bed New England cleans your clocks. Funny.[/quote]

First clean your clocks is a bit dramatic in that they would have lost if not for a stick check ( perfectly legal and not an excuse just saying not exactly a beat down ) . This year NE did in fact lose convincingly no stick check necessary . To the people who keep posting no one cares , why are you in a lacrosse forum to begin with.

Interesting, nobody but you three [ChillLaxin] cares[/quote]

You did enough to take the time to respond. While u guys argue about who is too old and what region is better, little old non hot bed New England cleans your clocks. Funny.[/quote]

First clean your clocks is a bit dramatic in that they would have lost if not for a stick check ( perfectly legal and not an excuse just saying not exactly a beat down ) . This year NE did in fact lose convincingly no stick check necessary . To the people who keep posting no one cares , why are you in a lacrosse forum to begin with.
[/quote]

Well this year New England beat LI in pool play in OT and then played a man down for 45 minutes in the semifinal on some pretty bad calls. Hard to really say. As far as stick check in OT 2 years ago u r correct, perfectly legal, but shouldn't have come to it. NE won on a last second goal in regulation that was disallowed incorrectly. So either way. And in pool play it was 12-6 NE not real close. I would say two very evenly matched teams both years. In fact the two best. Which is interesting given how much Maryland likes to brag. I think Maryland has more depth, but I would say in terms of top end talent, LI and New England hold their own pretty well. And yes I fully concede that NE in order to compete needs to draw from several states (Mainly Ma/RI/CT) vs LI which is smaller. Not debating LI's standing as one of the two best areas for lax. Just happy to see NE and some other areas starting to make a dent.

What an incredibly rediculous forum/thread. We are all dumber for having read it.

No .. it's just when you see girls that are physically developed playing against girls who obviously are not, people start to question things a little bit.. No one's knocking the talent of any MD kids. But the age discrepancy thing needs to be addressed.

[quote=Anonymous]No .. it's just when you see girls that are physically developed playing against girls who obviously are not, people start to question things a little bit.. No one's knocking the talent of any MD kids. But the age discrepancy thing needs to be addressed.

It used to be addressed on the field at the U15 Nationals. When the size wasn't as big of a factor as it is when they are younger. MD doesn't like losing so they stopped going. Age is a factor or else the MD teams would like to go to the Nationals and say they are the greatest.

Nationals is that like Elite, Bluechip, Nat. Championships, Summer Nat. Champ, Fall Nat. Champ, indoor Nat Champ, or any other buzz word they stick on the front end of there tournament....

[quote=Anonymous]Nationals is that like Elite, Bluechip, Nat. Championships, Summer Nat. Champ, Fall Nat. Champ, indoor Nat Champ, or any other buzz word they stick on the front end of there tournament....

Except Nationals goes by age not grade.

They are talking about the US lacrosse national championship, which does have the DOB cutoffs. But is a weak tournament. But the most prestigious event by far, UA, does not use the cut off and "used to " print DOB, which clearly showed what's going on. That event goes by region, and several years I saw many girls who didn't make the team in their own region, ended up trying out and playing for other regions. So you get to thinking, could my daughter go play down in age group next year in a different region so she stands out? Hmmm, she looks good playing her own age, she would look like a stud playing down. Of course if she tried to play age down in the Baltimore or D.C. Region, she would ultimately end up being the same age as the rest of the team, lol.

Ok just went and looked at it, actually never even heard of it and it doesn’t look that prestigious to me. Only see 2-3 good club teams represented in the tournament but yes they are from LI, same teams we play all year though. All most all MD/DC club teams are finished for the year by Aug they might want to think about moving the dates if they want other teams to participate... Anyway there are several other tournaments out there better then that one G8 being one of them which would give you more of a National title then any US lax one. But if you want to beat a dead horse and blame it on age have at it..

Nationals is a great tournament but it certainly does not crown a real champ, it’s realy a NY and Others tournament. Only tournament that gives a chance for all the NY teams to play each other and sort out who’s-who.

I also agree the timing stinks! Delaware in August you can barely breath. Great Tournament but glad it’s my daughters last year going.

Legacy picked up 2 good players from TG but they also picked up to crazy parents

[quote=Anonymous]Legacy picked up 2 good players from TG but they also picked up to crazy parents

That's an understatement.

Rumor has it a 21' out of Florida is now verbally committed to Syracuse. So much for early recruiting. What's the deal?

Somebody started their day off in a bad mood! What gives?

More likely..........they were overheard saying something negative about another kid.

That's why TG parents jumped for joy when they left TG, always had an opinion on someone else's kid.

Typical non athletic parents

Anybody know where the new girl on Bert's team is from?

[quote=Anonymous]Anybody know where the new girl on Bert's team is from?

Legacy

Didn't the girl from Legacy go to YJ?

I thought that was the girl on A, she came from Legacy. The new defender on Bert's is from Legacy too? Legacy A, B or C???

I think Legacy only has one team at this age

If it's the new girl listed on the Bert's roster I think she's from Brookhaven Bandits if not then Blue Devils.

25 on the A roster is a joke

Was this weekend suppose to bring the A team together or separate the "chosen ones" from the rest?

[quote=Anonymous]Was this weekend suppose to bring the A team together or separate the "chosen ones" from the rest?

The chosen ones.

OK I'll bite. What was this weekend?

Do you actually have a kid on the team or are you just a concerned bystander?

Um what A team? This is a generic 2021 thread. Self absorbed much?

Ohhh boy, what happened? Please share....

Crickets

Ok let's rejuvenate the thread then. What is everyone seeing/hearing/doing re: recruiting. Is anyone getting legit looks and contact this past fall ?

[quote=Anonymous]Ok let's rejuvenate the thread then. What is everyone seeing/hearing/doing re: recruiting. Is anyone getting legit looks and contact this past fall ?

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the recruiting rule change vote in April then this can be a very big year for this age group.

Yes. Half my D's team is pretty well set. They did their visits in the fall and have "agreements" in place. The other half should be done before the summer schedule starts up. Coaches are waiting to see how they do this spring with their high school teams. This recruiting thing was easier and smoother than we had thought it would be. Our club coach and club director was so helpful through the whole process, now, we just sit back and enjoy the rest of the ride.

And then you woke up...

Deals in place, that’s hysterical. No 2021 deals r done. 20s are not even close to being finished

What is the "recruiting rule change vote in April" all about?

They are all committed to top 5 lax schools with 3/4 or full rides. Coaches want to keep it on the down-low.

Why stop there, all full rides to top 2 schools

[quote=Anonymous]What is the "recruiting rule change vote in April" all about?

Recruiting goes from September 1 of your junior year to September 1 of your sophomore year if it gets approved April 1.

Doesn't TG have a few girls committed to Stony Brook at this age?

If this were true, which I don't think it is, I'm sure your kids teammates and the coaches they are supposedly "wink wink"ed to would love you telling people. I can't imagine (or name frankly) anyone in this grade being so good that any coach would put their NCAA status on the line. but nice try

no, do you really think JS would soil what is going to be a great season by breaking NCAA rules?

lol not tg anymore and wink wink ask their dads

It appears he doesn’t care. At his clinics the parents of those TG girls can easily be overheard talking to him about their girls. It’s actually crazy how blatant it is.

wink wink Im good thanks... I hope they don't sink their girls chances of being recruited at SB or anywhere with their mouths

agreed, the rule is as flexible as the coaches want it to be - some won't talk at all and others have not missed a beat since the rule change