BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Tried using paragraphs, it just kept kicking back for some reason.

Sorry you feel this is nonsense, it really isn't, just working on ways to get this back to age base, the way it should be.

Not worked up about this at all, just the right thing needs to be done. Have some things in process, but it will take time.

I have been around youth lacrosse long enough to see what older teams can do to younger players physically and it's not pretty.

For whatever reason, paragraphs worked this time, didn't kick back. Maybe something wrong with my phone.

Teams above have no shot in beating crabs. Hawks 91 force. Crabs improved and those two have not.

Appreciate your insight whether it is paragraphs or not. The majority of AA teams have at least one, if not more, older player not born between 9/1/2001 and 8/31/2002. Anyone who thinks their team does not is just fooling themselves. What do you have in progress and will it be soon enough for the 2020s this year?

This could be run like rec football. Your age on August 1st determines the age group you play with. Show a state issued ID, end of story. They have teams at each age group, just like lacrosse. Until you reach 9th grade then do whatever you want because they have to play against older players no matter what.

It makes too much sense and the "elite" teams can't game the system to make themselves look good so it won't happen.

Serious question. Is there a separate division in youth football for kids that turn 14 before aug 1 but are still in 8th grade?

Of course the top club programs place a premium on winning and being dominant. Pushing the envelope with the holdbacks enhances their chances dramatically and unfairly. But, most importantly the holdbacks are more likely to be recruited as sophomores and freshman and that ladies and gentleman is the best form of advertising the elite clubs have. The Crabs have holdbacks that would be D1 recruits as on age players, by holdingback they become dominant high level recruits. It draws the parents and kids in like flies! All of the top clubs have holdbacks, the Crabs just have the most that do not need to be heldback!

I would say that unless the Crabs don't play their 2019s in a 2020 division the above statement is accurate. Older kids should beat younger kids and....well... the Crabs have "a couple" of holdbacks.

Not drinking the Koolaid at all! I despise the prefirst, reclassify, holdback BS taking place in lacrosse. My son is a on age public school kid. My son was a one year Crab and played with the kids that have committed to UNC, MD and UVA as 2019 prefirst, reclassed, holdbacks. All three of them were very good on age players. Now would they have committed to those schools so early as on age players - two of the three probaby not, but they all would ultimately be playing high level D1 lacrosse and certainly are not average on age players. If the kid was the #2 2019 to commit (UNC) he is probably better than 95% of the 2018's. Again, strongly opposed to the holdback situation and have voiced that many times, but to say that all of the holdbacks are average on age players for the Crabs is wrong! My son has played for three of the Baltimore elite clubs and they ALL HAVE NUMEROUS HOLDBACKS / PREFIRSTS! No surprises there!!!

My son is on-age and plays on a AA team that is in the on-age AA bracket. My point is that cheating is cheating. You can't cheat just a little - if you cheat you cheat. You're the one trying to justify that your son is on a team in the Holdback division that only cheats a little.

I think that the holdback situation is unfair and unsafe across the board and I am happy that they took those teams and put them all in their own division. So you cheaters can all play each other. I think it's pretty funny that jack-hole's like you are now taking to complaining about which team cheats more....

So at what point is the number of holdbacks on a team over the top? If you have 3 it's ok but if you have 10 its not? What about 5, is that ok? Or maybe... 7 is ok but 10 is way too many. See the point? Either you have holdbacks or you don't.

If you still don't understand let me know and I'll draw a picture for you.

It's amazing that people like you just assume things and then has to lower the bar and start name calling. Guess that makes you feel better. I never said my son plays on a holdback team. In fact he is age appropriate and plays on an AA team with no holdbacks, just like your son. He is an A/strong B student and I would never consider allowing him to repeat a grade just for a sport. I also said there is NO magic number for holdbacks to be considered appropriate. I no longer coach youth lacrosse, I just don't have the time due to my job commitments and it would not be fair to the payers to do a "part time" coaching job. But I am well connected in the lacrosse community and know what is going on. What I am saying is that Crabs and their leader Ryan McClernan has created a cesspool in youth lacrosse with the holdback situation. I know parents of former Crabs players and they have told me that their son was on Crabs, was a starter and saw lots of playing time but were told that if they wanted to stay with the program their son would have to repeat, thus becoming a holdback. These kids are good students and there was no justified reason to repeat other than Ryan M wanting to have an older/bigger team than others. This is the way he needs to win. I also know holdbacks on other 2020 teams and quite a few were for academic reasons. These kids are not dumb, they just needed more structure and focus in academics, the public schoold system was not for them. I have no problem with this situation but...as this moves forward more and more clubs are going to start following the Crabs business model and getting more holdbacks. And again, a team with 2 or 3 holdbacks is at a definite disadvantage playing a team like Crabs, with 8+ holdbacks, a few double holdbacks (the pre K thing) and you have players on Crabs that are older 14, some turning 15 at the beginning of the season playing against 13 and young 14 year olds. This is a dangerous situation for other teams and my #1 concern, above everything else, is player safety and Crabs keeps creating a dangerous situation for everyone in their league. It is also unfortunate that Ryan McClernan, for whatever unknown reason, carries a lot of weight in youth lacrosse and more often than not gets his way. The team your son plays for could start the holdback thing, it's not beyond realm of possibility. Also your sons team could very well play a team with a higher number of holdbacks in summer tournaments, putting him and his teammates at risk. And no, you do not have to draw me a picture, I completely understand what is going on, obviously you do not. So stop being a d bag. You are the one looking like an idiot ny demonstrating you do not understand what is happening in youth lacrosse and grade base lacrosse.

This is bull. You don't know anyone that Ryan M has told that they have to repeat to keep their spot on the team. That's because he doesn't do that. If a parent comes to him, will he give them his honest opinion? Of course. But so would a coach at an MIAA school.

It's the parents that are driving the holdback issue. Not Ryan or any other club coach. Do you expect Crabs to not offer a spot to holdbacks? Does any other club specifically not allow holdbacks? Is it Ryan's fault that his club is the one that kids strive to play for? He built a winning program and kids want to play for them. Wearing that yellow helmet is a status symbol for them.

And before you insult me, my son plays for Crabs, but is on age so don't start on me about being a cheater. My son wants to play for Crabs. He's proud that he is good enough to play for them. I guess I'm an [lacrosse] for letting him.

Would like to see the Crabs "older" holdbacks on their 2020 team barred from the HOCO league this spring. You know, the older players that are really 2019 age players.

Don't feel the HOCO organizers have the ba*ls to do this.

Actually - yeah - you are an [lacrosse] for letting him play for fat crab daddy. I wouldn't let my kid near that organization. His behavior on the sidelines is bad enough - not to mention his cheating ways. Crabs ain't much to write home about without their Holdbacks.

My son isn't on Ryan's team. His coaches are fantastic and he loves his teammates. So according to you, I should make my young son play for someone else just because there are some prefirst kids on his team?

Glad you aren't my dad. Feel sorry for your son that you apparently feel the need to make everything about you.

Unless your son is older this will all change. The 2020 team has 7 kids left over from the 6th grade team of 2 years ago. Pre-firsts aren't the problem with Crab Daddy, forcing kids to re-class is. There are multiple kids on the 2020 team that have reclassed in the past 2 years which bumped some kids off the team or greatly reduced their playing time. Enjoy.

Unless your son is older this will all change. The 2020 team has 7 kids left over from the 6th grade team of 2 years ago. Pre-firsts aren't the problem with Crab Daddy, forcing kids to re-class is. There are multiple kids on the 2020 team that have reclassed in the past 2 years which bumped some kids off the team or greatly reduced their playing time. Enjoy.

I am grateful for the Crabs organization for the life lessons they have taught my on age 2020 son. We have had many conversations why we as parents need to set some boundaries and this organization lacks the character that we want for his future or that we as a family are willing to fund so he is not permitted to try out. It is not all about winning- it is about doing the right thing or in Crabs on age player's case, not going along with doing the wrong thing just to wear a yellow helmet. If the only way our son would get into a D1 is to holdback and play for a team that bends the rules to their favor then so be it - we have saved for his future. [/quo

Nice story, then the Crabs took the field and kicked the snot out of your undersized, talent-less kid. Later in life your kid is pumping gas into the Crab player's Porsche.

I am grateful for the Crabs organization for the life lessons they have taught my on age 2020 son. We have had many conversations why we as parents need to set some boundaries and this organization lacks the character that we want for his future or that we as a family are willing to fund so he is not permitted to try out. It is not all about winning- it is about doing the right thing or in Crabs on age player's case, not going along with doing the wrong thing just to wear a yellow helmet. If the only way our son would get into a D1 is to holdback and play for a team that bends the rules to their favor then so be it - we have saved for his future. [/quo

Nice story, then the Crabs took the field and kicked the snot out of your undersized, talent-less kid. Later in life your kid is pumping gas into the Crab player's Porsche.

My son isn't on Ryan's team. His coaches are fantastic and he loves his teammates. So according to you, I should make my young son play for someone else just because there are some prefirst kids on his team?

Glad you aren't my dad. Feel sorry for your son that you apparently feel the need to make everything about you.

That would be great. Then the only league they could play in would be myla in juniors - which is U15. You have the balls to tell the older kids on your sons team they can't play

Actually - yeah - you are an [lacrosse] for letting him play for fat crab daddy. I wouldn't let my kid near that organization. His behavior on the sidelines is bad enough - not to mention his cheating ways. Crabs ain't much to write home about without their Holdbacks.

Yes I do. Keep in mind that I would guess that only Crabs have kids that old that they would have to move to U15. They have older 14 year olds who will be turning 15 during the season, that is a known fact.

By your response, seems you wouldn't have the balls to tell them. Maybe you are a Crab parent/fan, no?

This is bull. You don't know anyone that Ryan M has told that they have to repeat to keep their spot on the team. That's because he doesn't do that. If a parent comes to him, will he give them his honest opinion? Of course. But so would a coach at an MIAA school.

It's the parents that are driving the holdback issue. Not Ryan or any other club coach. Do you expect Crabs to not offer a spot to holdbacks? Does any other club specifically not allow holdbacks? Is it Ryan's fault that his club is the one that kids strive to play for? He built a winning program and kids want to play for them. Wearing that yellow helmet is a status symbol for them.

And before you insult me, my son plays for Crabs, but is on age so don't start on me about being a cheater. My son wants to play for Crabs. He's proud that he is good enough to play for them. I guess I'm an [lacrosse] for letting him.

he absolutely tells parents that if their son wants to remain on the Crabs he will have to repeat a grade.

He absolutely does not. The parents are to blame.

Wow, "the parents are to blame". Think about that statement.

The parents just do what a club owner suggests regardless of whether the parents think it is ethical or in the best interest of their son.

Talk about the abdication of responsibility.

Heard 91 Platinum dropped out of today's "playin" for 2020 elite. Can anyone confirm?

We x

Heard same, ironic since they made a huge fuss about being left out in the first place.

the parents I knew moved on, but obviously many choose to stay.

Not true.

So they're playing?