BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls Spring 2014 High School Varsity Lacrosse

I am wondering how many schools have 7&8th graders that start on Varsity and made it into the playoffs.

Doing things secretly causes problems. Why not just open the tryouts up to all 8th graders. In one school a number of girls were brought up from middle school quietly to tryout for varsity (and not because of a numbers need). Others with equal talent (not an opinion, fact) weren't given this opportunity. To avoid problems why not invite all? Most that are not close to being ready will pass on the tryout and the coaches can take those who they had planned on taking anyway. Plus, in an ideal world, maybe a sleeper without the right connections will catch the eye of a coach.

How about this travel dad, your kid will have more than enough time to play varsity. Just because the people you write the big check to every summer tell you how great your kid is doesn't make it so. Wait your turn and don't rush it.

The objections are from parents of older kids who are just NOT as good. Trust me, they are not as good. These parents can keep fooling themselves, but it is rare to hear that a younger girl was brought up and the older girl is better. Will these parents also go to the school board and protest a young girl who practices her violin and attends private violin lessons from sitting first chair in a high school band. Better yet, put an end to advanced math and advanced high school curriculum. What these parents are looking for are participation ribbons. Sorry, but us crazy travel parents are just looking for our kids to have the chance to play. Given the chance, these kids show they are simply better.

Most of these kids do not stand out on the travel teams, they blend in and nobody calls them great. Where they do stand out is back on the school team. I am also talking about the top teams from the top clubs here, 2nd or third team or off brand club this doesn't apply. Now if an 8th grader from one of the top teams and the top clubs is a standout on that team, believe me she is more than qualified to be playing varsity. Reality is there are only a very small number of girls on LI who fit this description, maybe a half dozen. Everyone on this thread has their parent goggles on and believes that to be their daughter, that is the real problem here, your daughter isn't the "one".

By your logic, ALL 8th graders will have more than enough time to play varsity then, including the invited 8th graders. I think if you're going to have a tryout for some 8th graders then it should be open to all. The secrecy aspect just feeds the politics, although let's be real, those politics will certainly affect who gets chosen ultimately. But you never know, maybe there *is* a sleeper out there without the political connections.

Most of these kids do not stand out on the travel teams, they blend in and nobody calls them great. Where they do stand out is back on the school team. I am also talking about the top teams from the top clubs here, 2nd or third team or off brand club this doesn't apply. Now if an 8th grader from one of the top teams and the top clubs is a standout on that team, believe me she is more than qualified to be playing varsity. Reality is there are only a very small number of girls on LI who fit this description, maybe a half dozen. Everyone on this thread has their parent goggles on and believes that to be their daughter, that is the real problem here, your daughter isn't the "one". [/quote



Best response I have read this year and I couldn't agree more!!!

You don't know what you're talking about. It's not ALWAYS the case that the younger girl is better. If she plays for the right travel club, or has the right connections, it also gets her on the team, and even in the game, in some cases. You can't generalize that ALL the younger players are better

Maybe these 7th and 8th graders are clearly better when playing on age, but when brought up they will be playing against girls a few years older that are often stronger, smarter, faster. They may not stand out as much.

Agreed. The younger players are not always better. Why push out a junior or senior who has been devoted to a school for years for a youngster that may only prove to be ready to practice with varsity but can't handle the varsity game. It happens often in sports. A great high school player may struggle in college, a great college player may struggle as a pro. A productive minor league player may not be able to hit a major league pitch.

They don't have to stand out, they can be the worst player on the field, so long as they are better than the girl they replaced they are to be considered as helping the team.

Agree, the that size can be a concern, but if they have the skill and maturity to compete at that level then they should be given the opportunity to earn their spot.

Schools need to do what is best for the students in their care and place them accordingly. There is no one blanket answer bc it is so individualized. If the girls have the skills and maturity ( all facets of such) then their age and grade level should not be a factor. Holding back these girls is stripping away their opportunities and if they can, then they should.

I suspect the complaints will come from those that feel threatened. However,should the young ladies that practice and enjoy this year round be penalized for being dedicated, hard working and talented?

Any precedent for this? Suffolk? Nassau?

Selection , classification is not supposed to be about a need do to numbers or about making a team better. Its intent is purely about the individual kid and what is best for them not the program as a whole. If a kid in 7th or 8th grade would benefit from the better competition level and more intense practice schedule and environment and if that kid has the physical and mental maturity to handle it then why not move them up.Yes its supposed to be used for the exceptional player/athlete but that is really a difficult label to apply.

In my opinion selection classification is abused in our school district we have the numbers and girls actually quit bc the selectively classified get pulled up to varsity over them. Do I believe in putting your best team on the field first absolutely but at what cost. A kid in 7th grade may not have developed as soon as her peers and then she gets overlooked and forgotten about. If a coach is a good coach she or he will find the way to bring out the best in each of her or his players. Most coaches go for the sure thing rather then developing girls that are mentally more mature. Garden City and Manhassett are great programs bc their coaches don't go for all the ripe bannanas so to speak they find the green ones and help them turn to ripe ones!!

If a district has to rely on 7th & 8th graders to be impact players on your Varsity team your youth program is doing something wrong

This should be solved by the state athletic commission. Many states mandate that kids only have four years of varsity eligibility.

Signed a YJ Parent

Our youth program is top notch and those same kids play travel as well
Yet our varsity coach insists on putting 7/8 graders on JV and V. We have had juniors and seniors quit bc of this. For example our junior class this year as freshman on JV had 14 girls this year only 5 bc they quit knowing that 7/8 graders would play over them on varsity.

Is playing for your middle school, or even JV, as a 7th or 8th grader being PENALIZED now? If the player will definitely help the varsity team (or JV) WIN MORE GAMES, then bring her up. If not, let her play MS or JV, which makes those teams better, and maybe even the girls around her. At the same time, you'll be allowing the older girls, who've also put their time in, to keep playing, and improving, without hurting the varsity team, or anyone else!

At what point do we allow the best players their time on field? Not who is older and not the "that's not fair" claim. Best players play. None are entitled to place on team, they need to EARN it with skill and dedication. Nothing else matters.

You're right. Now, if we could only remove the inherent politics from the equation...

This is not a YJ only problem. Fact is our district brought up 2 TG girls last season after bringing up a YJ the previous season.

NOTHING ELSE SHOULD MATTER. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case.

NOTHING ELSE SHOULD MATTER. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case.Because usually it's not the best players, its selective call ups usually driven by loud mouth travel parents.

Way back in the 80's a athlete waited his/her turn and got on the field in their junior and senior year. Now in the days of my kid is the best coming from parents that never played in HS the coaches cave to the pressure.

But my kid played travel, we go to Maryland every weekend to play LI teams, the travel program has direct pay set up from my checking account. I got a fancy warm up suit and back pack and the owner of the travel program says I am going to get a scholarship. My travel coach says they are smarter than my school coach and they told me I should be on varsity as an 8th grader.

My daughter got brought up to varsity early. No political ties, never knew the coach, she flat out earned it. She excels and is happy, not without some ill feelings from older girls on the team, other girls who were passed up, and parents of these kids. I guess that is exactly what we see here on this thread, the ill feelings. But I do get it, as I see many parents and kids politically angling to get on varsity, and many don't deserve it, and can't except that, but every kid and school district is different and must be looked at individually, not fair to generalize on the situation.

I think the old way is what made being part of a team a special thing to experience in high school, especially for juniors and seniors. Also, important life lessons were learned regarding an understanding that hard work and patience often lead to recognition.

Unfortunately that is how the girls lacrosse recruiting process takes place through the summer tournaments and getting the nod from BS & CR carries a lot of weight and your kidding yourself if you don't think so. When CR & BS call ahead to a college coach who runs a camp that kid gets a better look than the kid who does not get the nod. We all watched a lot of great 10th graders and some very good 9th graders play Varisty in 2014 & they carried their own weight and made an impact. A good coach knows who to bring up and play. Don't forget some of these kids actually deserve it.

Do you actually believe what you are writing, what sport and what school and I can probably name an underclassmen that started. Grow up and let the best kids play regardless of age.

They do, you are right. And FWIW, I have never heard a travel coach tell a kid, in any sport, that he/she should be brought up. Does that really happen? IME, travel coaches and school coaches are generally in a pissing match about who "owns" the talent during season, I don't see a lot of cooperation there (again, across sports, not just lax).

I agree. I was a 9th grade starter graduated in 1983. I was a decent player on a poor team. My issue is these coaches bringing up players for Varsity to fill the bench, how does that improve your team look at copiague. who by the way rewarded the most penalized player (dirty player) with an award this year and the coach even mentioned it as she presented the award.

GREAT POINT on the coaches in a pissing match, we had a few of our YJ's miss practice to go to go to some travel things and colleges during the season when everyone else worked around the school schedule. Drove the HS coach crazy. Travel is all about me me me, school teams is supposed to be all about team.

Since the Girls Lacrosse boom (say the last 8-10 years for arguments sake), there have probably been a handful of 7-8th grade girls that were brought up to Varsity and have been ready to compete at the Varsity level within the county. Skill/Talent, emotionally and physically ready. Not on their individual school team but truly compete against top talent girls, game in and game out, in the county.

Being on a Varsity sport team in 7/8/9 grade has since been the measuring stick for certain girls and/or their parents. The prevailing thought is, the earlier, the better.

Unfortunately, most girls are not truly ready. They have not matured physically or emotionally. The varsity game is always officiated well and girls get bumped, knocked down etc. Officials then compensate for the size difference by making questionable calls to protect these smaller athletes. Not necessarily a conscious plan but you see it during indoor games and local tournaments.

Girls being moved to varsity to fill the bench are not being done any justice. They get better at lacrosse by playing lacrosse. Game conditions are different than practice conditions.

If these 7-8th grade girls are the best in their district at their age, they should still be able to improve, and they should help their friends and teammates improve. It's better for their overall development.

Any parents who have had their daughters play varsity at the 7, 8, or 9th grade ages, I ask, can you compare their level of play at that age to their level of play at 11th and 12th grade. I can honestly say, my daughter and most of her friends were better at the older ages and, in hindsight, should have stayed and played "age appropriate" until 9th grade.

IMHO

Agreed. The move to jv has been absent from this conversation. Is that perhaps a better location for these younger, skilled players. I don't think it is their responsibility or burden to carry along girls who are just starting the sport it will be both frustrating and undermining the value of each girls on both sides of skill level. Kids want to feel connected and contributing, hard to do when some feel held back while others feel an unintentional but palpable comparison. Keep in mind, these are minds of middle schoolers and although sometimes they are ruled by emotion and not reason, their feelings and impressions are still of value.

Maybe better jump is to jv where the skilled, younger girls who prove they can do it is the best position for them. Not a broad stroke statement, considering the Indiv needs of the individual girl, just referring to them collectively.

I can appreciate the worries and reality of the overly animated and boisterous parent. Feels like parental bullying in the community however it is the AD and coaches right and responsibility to manage their programs in the best interest of the athletes. Clear, reasoned and well articulated evidence to support why they do what they do goes a long way to inform the community. You may not like it, but at least you gather info on why they may choose to do it and proceed from there.

After reading this thread and considering all the different perspectives and reasons given, it seems that when you still down, girls have to prove they should be where they are placed regardless of level. Parents need to zip it and admins need to clearly articulate and follow through with objectives and expectations of all facets.

Just another thing to think about after your 10th grader commits you get to pay for the college camp that she is committed to so she can spend time with all the other 2017 commits, 2016, 2015 and last but not least the 2014 commits plus all the others who decided to attend the camp. I'm not complaining but just be prepared to pay for travel team then camp. I understand it's a great chance to see what the coaches are all about and they really get a chance to evaulate that 10th grader that they verbally gave scholarship money too. How do you avoid going to camp, you really can't plus the kid gets a first hand look at the dorms and the school. Any thoughts on this?

But most recruiting is done through the travel team my kid played JV as a 10th grader and was recruited and verbally committed before she stepped on the field for the Varsity. Remember it's all in the eye of the beholder, some coaches may think the kid is great while others don't see any return on investment. Just keep playing hard and show some sportsmanship on the field act like a leader and try not to make a fool of oneself leave that up to us the parents and support one another for crying out loud they are YOUR teammates & friends!

Exactly right!

I'm picking this thread to list the following because it is the 2014 Spring girls and there has been some discussion about age, playing time, etc.

The following is a breakdown of the Class of 2013 YJ commits and their playing time in their first year of playing college lacrosse. The list was 66 girls (from the website) of all YJ teams across all college divisions. (Disclaimer--I was a YJ parent and my daughter is not represented by this group. I read the YJ thread and things seemed nicer back in the day).

I broke it down as follows: (Strictly by games played)

1) "Impact" player played most games
2) "Played" is about 50% of games with statistical contribution
3) "Not Significant" played in a handful of games with little statistical contribution
4) "Did Not Play"--self explanatory but injury or transfer a possibility

45% of the 2013 commits were "Impact" players
11% of the 2013 commits "Played"
36% of the 2013 commits were "Not Significant"
8% "Did Not Play"

Just food for thought. If I can remember I'll try to follow this class to 2017.

Don't waste your time, the stats are meaningless. An impact player at East Bumfreckle U is the same player that does not see the field at a top ten college.