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And while LI and Baltimore Crabs argue about which is a crappier place to live, 3d just finished raising $6mm from investors. Arrived in MD this Summer, heavily armed in New England and marching south through the Tri-State next. Phone call from King Crab to Jamie Munro in 12-18 months..."hey Jamie, me again, eh, think maybe now it would be exciting to work together? Jamie? Jamie? I can hear you breathing...Jamie?"

Post of the year. LMAO! So true, in a year or two Crabs will be passed by FCA and others, probably 3d too.

Wait a year or two though and the new 3D Maryland players will be sitting on the sidelines while kids from other regions are flown in to play on 3D Maryland. Great plan if you want to spend $2500 plus "optional" clinics to get your kid seats on a bench to watch kids from other areas play.

Maryland kids don't sit on lacrosse benches!!!!

Crabs up to their "old" tricks, pun intended, at fl$ this weekend. Sickening the need the have to cheat!

The Crabs aren't at fl$. What are you talking about?

Which Crabs teams are at fl$?

FCA dad here....gotta hand it to the Crabs, they look
very tough. Played well, very aggressive at both ends. My only question
is why bring '16s to a 17 tournament? You would
prob win with just the '17s

Crabs 2017s and 2018s are playing in UMD Young Guns tournament.

Obviously they are not that tough if they needed to bring older players?!?!? So is it true? If so- why? And why is it allowed in a 2017 tournament bracket?

Complain all you want, Ryan McClernan doesn't care. He is driving this sport toward school year based teams all down through the youth levels. NPYLL will be grade based starting with 4th grade this Fall. Suits the strategy well to keep kids restrained for an advantage. There are no excuses for club lacrosse to not be U-16, U-15, etc. if you want to have more teams by one year instead of U-15, U-13 on down. It looks like US Lacrosse doesn't care enough to step in, and even if they did Crabs and others would just run tournaments this way and would not care about US Lacrosse sanctioned.

meant young guns

Was at fl$ 3D this weekend and will never go back. They got greedy and added fields. One way in one way out. Had to jump out of car after waiting over an hour in traffic lined up for miles only to find a 12 year old directing traffic when you finally got into park. 700 cars lined up trying to get into a park nightmare. Only to get to field and no refs. They were stuck in traffic as well. Shortened games because of it. Ended up playing 3 games with 1 ref who didn't care and just wanted game over. 7am start times didn't help either NOT ONE COACH ATTENDED EARLY GAMES AND MANY DROVE AWAY ONCE THEY SAW TRAFFIC. ONE COACH ACTUALLY CALLED ME TO SAY SORRY BUT WASNT DEALING WITH IT.

We went down for both Crabfeast and for fl$ in 3d. I agree and was disappointed in each. This Summer was the first year that the brackets had at least two really crappy teams in them. fl$ in 3d, again more than 1/2 the teams were a joke. I think it dilutes the looks that tournament directors are hyping with their own tournaments. I understand the money side. Crabs and 3d should both consider straight up doing an elite session and then an all-comers second session. Maybe fewer all-comers show up because they only come to say they play Crabs or Dukes even though they lose 15-2, but putting those lopsided contests on the field is just as bad as what the earlier poster wrote about the 3d tournament being a giant mess. My kid ran from the Dunkin Donuts 1/4th of a mile away to the field. Otherwise he would have been at his game at game time instead of an hour early. I can't help but resent that no coach wants to sit and watch Saturday bracket games that are 15-2. Impossible to evaluate anything in those games, except that one team stinks and what good players do against bad teams means nothing like our high school season. It sounds like the only ones that did not go off like a greedy money grab were Adrenaline Platinum Cup and NSLCA which were the same weekend in June. Should have just done one of those and called it a Summer.

Do you really think any of these tournament organizers are looking for anything but cash! fl$/3D is probably one of the most unorganized tournaments out there. Although traffic is not something they can control.

Agree. I was at 3D and it was bad. Ten times worse than Tri state on a Friday night. 3D was so bad kid working the clock for our final game told us 3 players broke arms climbing fence trying to get to games. Cops were called to stop kids from doing it on last day. Only good games were after teams were matched up and even then there were blow outs. No coaches early morning games and none last day even for championship game which my son was in only had tops 5 coaches watching and I think it was because they were stuck in parking lot due to traffic. fl$ and 3D SHOULD BE ASHAMED ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY CHARGE $2500 A TEAM. We drove 6 hours to sit in traffic every day of tourney and got a ticket for parking in a no parking zone that I was told to park in. Stupid me I listened. NEVER AGAIN

Crabfeast has been watered down as the number of teams have increased. But it is nothing like FLD in 3D. You are hard pressed to find any quality teams at that tournament. Even if there hadn't been parking issues, few college coaches are interested in that lineup of teams.

We switched from Crabfest to 3D because our team liked the area and there is so much to do. Crabfest is very watered down. BUT 3D WHAT A MESS. We traveled in Vans this year to make it easy but it caused more problems because half our team were stuck in traffic. We had to start a game with our back up goalie playing attack and no subs. Calvary arrived mid way through second quarter but damage was done lost by 1. Tempers were flaring all over. Fields were in very bad shape. Nets riddled with holes. One game we had no game balls. Thanks to one of the coaches of the other team had a nice supply,

I agree. Next year our son will be a rising junior, so much of this is now moot. After we went to Crabfeast and fl$ in 3D we spoke to our club owner and all agreed next year to be more careful for the 2017s, 2018s, on down. Crabs never did this before, but blowing the tournament up to 40 teams means watering it down. I'm really shocked. Crabs always ran tournaments with a focus on teams attending quality, but that just went out the window this Summer. fl$ in 3D was a disgrace considering the team fees are the highest. My kid jumped that fence too in order to get to a game. These guys need to be real careful. Ryan McClernan and Jamie Munro need to know that the short term pump in the bank account will come at a price. We're a really good 2017 team, and we are never ever going back to either one. Both of those tournaments are worse than TriState became in 2012, which was the last year we went there. 3D is such a monster now, why not just do elite divisions at their tournaments or elite tournaments? LI Express, Team 91, Turtles, Laxachusetts, Eclipse, Dukes...none of them will ever again drive all day to get near this garbage until it gets cleaned up. College coaches don't come to see 3D California play 3D Colorado and even if they did, they don't want to go to an armpit place like Bel Air, MD to see it. Do a tournament in San Francisco or San Diego...coaches would go to see the beach on a nice little vacation. [lacrosse], I just paid for my son to be in Denver this week just to go to a nice place to play lacrosse for once.

At least Crabfeast had the top 2017 teams this year. At 3D, 75% of those teams are terrible.

Just like a MadLax tournament. $2500 per team, you'd think those guys could hit up [lacrosse]'s for a few boxes of balls for their own tournaments. With 40 teams per grade from 2015s down to 2020s, that is $600K in revenue for 3D. Unreal how unprofessional these guys are. Coaches going into their own bags for balls.

Our coach went to the tent to complain and there were a group of nice women working and the first thing they said is please do not curse before he even opened his mouth. They said all they are hearing are complaints. He asked to speak to Winkoff from fl$ or someone from 3D and was told he could speak to his son because he wasn't even there and no one from 3D was there either. They were sitting somewhere on a beach with no traffic counting their money. Until the parents say no it will continue. A college coach that lives in the area told us he doesn't even try to go because of the traffic problem. 7AM START TIMES COME ON REALLY.

Do not compare Crabfeast with fl$. I agree there were too many teams this year, but they had nearly all the top 2017s from around the country. Probably should stick with a select tournament of 24 or so teams instead of allowing 12+ marginal ones to participate.

But 3D is a pure money grab in every sense of the word. You should have known what you were getting when you saw the lineup of terrible teams.

Sounds like the parking/traffic was horrible, too. Crabfeast was packed, but nobody was late to their games. Looking at the schedules, 3D stuffed their tournament with way too many teams, leading to the inevitable traffic leading into Cedar Lane.

Funny that at the fl$ tournament I saw plenty of college coaches, UNC head coach, UMBC 2 coaches, 2 from Hopkins, Loyola, Maryland head coach, Princeton, just to name a few. I agree that there were a lot of teams at various levels and some should not have been playing each other. Sooner or later everyone is going to get it, its all about the money....SHOW ME THE MONEY!
The biggest joke was the faceoff competition.

At Crabfeast "only" 60% of the teams were terrible. Both tournaments have real issues going forward. Adrenaline gets it. I know it sounds elitist, but the top teams deserve to be playing each other and the coaches on the recruiting trail deserve to be watching high level lacrosse. Crabs vs. sisters of the poor bracket at Crabfeast or a decent LI team beating up on crappy 3d Oregon and California teams is just an insult for NCAA coaches to have to watch. Just call it Division 3 in 3D next year.

I think you should not be blaming the tournaments you should be blaming the top teams they have the power to sign up for the tournament. They should be asking the correct questions before signing up.

That is a great point. Each club owner charges a lot of money to the families to get them the right looks. Signing up for lousy tournaments is bad, and nothing good happens when you take $2500 from a family to get the kid recruited and then rostering 25 kids around all of whom need to be showcased. There will always be bloated and watered down tournaments. It would be a good start if the club owners would call each other and make sure that their top team will be on board with other top teams at tournaments.

Great idea but how do you stop JOHNNY COACH from selling to his parents that they are playing in better divisions because getting your butt kicked in week in and week out is going to make you a better player. No coach that is taking $2000 from a parent is telling them they now belong to a "B" or "C" team.

Parents and coaches all feel their kids are the best. By the time reality sets in it is too late you are already signed up and tournies are closed out and all you are doing is apologizing to the goalies parents because he is getting shelled every week from kids better and older.

fl$ 3D is doing damage control already. They are trying to say they have no control over parking attendants and how it is handled. THEY ARE ONLY RESPOSIBLE FOR SIGNING UP TOO MANY BAD TEAMS AND MAKING SURE THE FEES ARE PAID ON TIME

3D is in it for money. Nothing more. They just raised over $5MM to start up clubs around the money. As we've all seen, many of these clubs are on a hunt to buy more clubs around the country. Why? Is it to grow the game?

No. It is all about getting more kids in the program, putting on more mediocre tournaments, selling merchandise, etc.

3D is already making a fortune by doing these satellite events for those kids dreaming of going to Blue Chip. Now they are putting on crappy tournaments without any regard to quality.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_26135135/3d-lacrosse-lands-5-23m-capital-says-players

To pile on, the all-star selections look rigged in 3d's favor too.

2018 example - 3d colorado 6 allstars (12.5% of the 48 total all-stars)

This is 60% of their starting lineup - however the team went 2-3 for the weekend with none of their losses coming from the finalists

There were two 4-1 teams who received only 1 all star each

--gotta remember to avoid 3d events in the future--

I am a former VLC U-13 parent and a current 3D U-15 Virginia parent. I concur that fl$ in 3D was a parking mess, and that is something for them to correct next year. I don't have kids in high school, but at the youth ages the caliber of play is very good at 3D tournaments in Maryland, Colorado and California. Before Crabs took over VLC there were two teams from U-15 down to U-11. Crabs took over and had one U-11 team, cut many VLC returning kids at tryouts and then had the team coached by a volunteer parent the first season. After the first season VLC quit fielding U-11 teams. My son was on the U-13 "B" team which had tryouts and then parents paid up for uniforms, etc. and VLC changed its mind and said no "B" team but we will refund your money and let your kid practice with the "A" team this year. This came months after Summer tryouts for all the DMV area clubs. Our son spent a year not playing in a club lacrosse game because Crabs owner changed his mind too late.

Before Crabs VLC used to cost $550 in the Fall and $800 in the Summer. We are not the family that complains about costs. Our son also plays ice hockey. But I am particular about a value for the program and it used to be good. Starting when Crabs took over the teams practiced very little and most of their time on the field was at the most expensive tournaments that were also owned and controlled by Crabs owner's for profit company. VLC went up to about $1000 in Fall and about $1500 in Summer. In our last season with VLC, before my son was cut again at U-15 and went off to Fuze, the "A" team practiced a total of 5 times and went to 3 Crabs tournaments for $1500. That is a rip off even by ice hockey standards. A lot of those U-15 parents were frustrated at the volume of Crabs prospect camps, clinics and showcase events owned by Crabs to position their kids to get recruiting attention and to get nominated to Jake Reed camp -- which 3D owns. I think some of this is the parent fault for signing up for things as a recruiting strategy with kids that are not outstanding enough. But the pay for play was encouraged and promoted by Crabs just like at other club franchises.

3D is running a business no doubt, but I am not complaining about the value since 3D bought Fuze. 3D is about $600-700 in Fall, and is about $1200 in Summer and there is a lot of practice and instructional time in the season. I also have my son at 3D instruction camps, which run $250-350 for four half days. I am no expert, but I see a lot of value in it since there are professional coaches and MLL players out there coaching the kids as opposed to college kids home for Summer. I have found these day camps to be plenty worth the money even if my son is never going to be a recruited lacrosse player. I also noticed a lot of VLC Crabs kids at the 3D day camp at PVI this week, so I am not alone.

We have been to one tournament at 3D with a parking lot nightmare. The teams there were decent, but maybe not as great as the two other tournaments we went to this Summer. We have not been pressured by 3D to buy any merchandise aside from a uniform and optional helmet stickers. Everyone gets invited to camps and events, but there is no pressure to sign up for anything.

Our experience at VLC might have been better if our son was a high school aged team D1 recruit. Basically the club is run in a way where what they are selling you is play for VLC Crabs and someday we will get you committed to Hopkins. Their high school teams have had a lot of success, but at the youth levels people are turning away in droves. As one parent told me, maybe 3D will become the new Madlax at the youth level and VLC will become the new Blackwolf at the high school level and eventually just quit fielding youth teams. Since VLC quit on U-11, quit on doing a U-13 second team to develop players instead of cutting them and gets most of their U-15 players from Madlax who want to be recruited it has come to that anyways now. VLC does have great high school showcase teams with D1 commits. It is a good investment for the kids who want that and a good strategy for VLC to advertise it to get the best high schoolers, but I believe it is a mistake to confuse that with a club that puts the effort into a youth program to develop players.

3d has hosted events at Cedar Lane before - these events had the same parking problem. 3d cannot claim ignorance or point the finger at others.

Club teams contract with 3d to enter a tournament. 3d contracts with vendors to provide services at their tournament. The fields and parking are 3d responsibility they failed miserably and created a dangerous situation (both lack of access for emergency vehicles and the risks of fence jumping)

Fields 9,9a,10,10a were a joke how small they were - 3d scheduled playoff games for these fields. Tthe idea that they added fields by cutting fields in half showed that they knew they were overcrowding the facility - those fields look intended for U-9 not a HS tournament

Honestly... I feel sorry for America. My grandfather watched Kamikazes fly into surrounding ships. My father's draft number came up for Viet Nam as a breadwinner and sole provider. My mother used to get a month off of school to pick potatoes. She was paid by the basket. Our generation takes the time ... on a youth lacrosse forum ... to whine about the "risks of fence jumping."

Here is my desire from lacrosse:

I want my kid to compete hard, commit himself to his team, check his limits, learn when its smart to play wide open and when its smart to dial it down, respect opponents and challenge them with his very best. Win with dignity, lose with dignity. Play for something bigger than himself. In between games, I want him to JUMP FENCES, knock back bullies, be kind to younger lacrosse players and kids who come to admire his play.

With those desires in mind, it's hard to be disappointed in the youth lacrosse experience whatever tournament you play in or whatever team you play for.

All this whining about “the Crabs”, “3d”, “holdbacks”, blah blah blah, its a fun read sometimes (like the crime blotter), but for the most part I’m embarrassed. If I was an enemy of United States, I would print off a copy of posts from this forum and hand them out to my soldiers. If they didn’t think they could kick our pansy, affluent, lazy asses before they read it… they would rapidly change their minds. Parents, please grow a pair … soon.

I was thinking the same thing...how could an ambulance get in and out of here quickly if needed? One thing I also noticed at nearly every Summer tournament including Crabs, Madlax, Hogan and 3d ones was not a single defibrillator at the score table of any event. If there was one hidden away in someone's trunk or at the first aid tent, that is not good enough. Those things cost less than $2K and can save a life when there is no time for 911. I also saw one woman get drilled in the stomach by a shot that missed the cage. Very few tournaments buy or rent nets behind the goal to keep the balls near the field and away from spectators. Tournaments keep repeating safety, but we don't see it. It would be a shame to see someone seriously injured or die which could be avoided.

I did something none of your sons will do, compete in the Olympics. When you get there, this is the humble speech read off and it brings tears at the opening ceremony: "The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not to win but to take part, just as the most important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle. The essential thing is not to have conquered but to have fought well."

Winning is competing hard and competing well regardless of the level. Maybe if parents and clubs ran their affairs with some dignity this sport could be a lot more fun.

First of all, who are you to tell people they will never compete in the Olympics?

Second, I think people who do participate want to win. Isn't that the point?

If your not a winner, your a ........ Fact!

I wrote the dangerous fence jumping note. I am okay with my son jumping fences growing up. There is a time for that. 5 minutes before a lacrosse game jumping a fence with no top bar so that it cannot be jumped is NOT that time.

I am okay with holdbacks - I think these parents are harming more than helping their kids so their choice.

When I make a purchase I expect quality. Posting a buyer beware response to my disappointment is not whining

Thanks for sharing your family's Vietnam & WWII stories. I am sure your dad and grandad are happy to have defended your right to anonymously post on a web forum disparaging other anonymous posters on a web forum

This is a great post, i am showing it to my kids tonight. I guarantee they will say "hey dad, are the holdbacks kind of like bullies?" - everything you say above is true, but yes, parents should grow a set and have their precious holdbacks play against kids their own age! My son is late in the year birthdate and just gets out there and plays, so he's not a pansy, but being his dad i would love to see the holdbacks play age appropriate competition.

I was an Olympic fence jumper, and yes, I was a holdback. I placed
3rd in the Vietnamese games, losing to a Crab dad and a Dad from the 3d program. Life is unfair!