BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls Spring 2014 High School Varsity Lacrosse

3 Goalies = Politics every other team has 24 players, why 25?

Well...you have the two goalies from last years team and now a third. There you have it.

Then lets throw in another Defender, Midfielder an Attack to bring it up to 28

You can say this after every tryout!!
Good Luck Long Island!!
If I am correct we heard the same thing after the School Girls tryouts and that worked out fine!!

No one said the girls picked can't play, but some of those left out might be better..

Re: School Girls, four Girls from Team 1 didn't make UA and six Girls from Team 2 did.. Did school Girls get it wrong or does CR have more pull at UA

It's simple. Head coach of UA, Carol Rose (Yellow Jacket owner)
Assistant coach of UA, Tracy Weiner (Yellow Jacket)
New addition, coach of UA (St Anthony's and now YJ)
Even the Carol supporters will have to see how ridiculous and unbalanced this is. It's supposed to be about the kids but it never has been. Instead of praising Carol, you all may want to see how many kids spirits she has squashed over the years. For those who recite her players accomplishments please remember it's the players accomplishments not Carol Roses. She was also the only game in town for a long time and now that there is competition she needs to fix rosters and manipulate awards to achieve the perceived success she is accustomed to. I for one feel sorry for her for being so shallow and I feel sorry for the ones who refuse to see through the facade. Carol and Tracy, you no longer get a pass for your roster fixing and your lying and your amazing lack of INTEGRITY. Hurting kids by lying and conspiring to advance your favorites disrespects most of the others in your club that are passed over.

It's really not simple at all if you look at the 4 kids who are not on the roster and the fact that there were only 20 spots on school girls team 1. One Very good Liberty kid did not try out for UA (was a no brainer who would have made it). Another YJ who was on the UA team last year, broke her hand (she was a no brainer). So you had 2 sophomores who are very good players(not no brainers) who didn't make the team. I think the question really is about which team 2 kids they picked. It was puzzling that some very good YJ 2015's got passed over.
As far as the YJ bias, The school girls tryout had 3 YJ evaluators and 8 non-YJ evaluators (seemed pretty fair), with Top Gun, Liberty and 91/Allstars among others represented as well. So if 16 kids were picked who were on the school girls team 1 and 6 kids from team 2, then you really can't argue with the majority of the selections. Maybe from who tried out (many very good players didn't) the best players were mostly YJ?
Like you said for a long time YJ was clearly the place where the best players played! I think the current pool of players for this tryout is on the tail end of that and in the future you will see more diversity in the selection, because it will warrant it. For now, who is that non YJ player that was clearly overlooked? I just don't see it.

Excellent post , you can add to your list a TG kid who was on schoolgirls team 1 and elected to not try out for UA. The UA team actually looks very similar to school girls . Again who are these non YJ kids that got overlooked that actually went to the tryouts .

Are any TG Girls on the LI All American team? There were a handful who were on their varsity teams that actually played as soph and freshmen, or the coaches still deciding?

[quote=Anonymous]Excellent post , you can add to your list a TG kid who was on schoolgirls team 1 and elected to not try out for UA. The UA team actually looks very similar to school girls . Again who are these non YJ kids that got overlooked that actually went to the tryouts.

If you think these tryouts we fair and there was no bias towards YJ Players go stick your head back in the sand.

There are several. BOTC has asked that the kids not be named. Rightfully so. With that being said it is silly to attemp to defend that there is an enormous bias when it comes to events that are run by Carol. It is so obvious and has been talked about for so long that kids don't even show up sometimes. That is an issue in itself and a bad by product of parents and coaches sitting back and allowing her reach to grow. Even if you want to defend her you will agree she has been dividing the LI lacrosse community and alienating LI from the rest of the country. For example the relationship between TG and Skywalkers and many other clubs verse the yellow jackets relationship with other clubs. Really look at the whole situation. It starts from the top and trickles down. It's about integrity. Or lack there of.

Levy and Apuzzo -not sure who else

Here is where you get it wrong. People are not protecting the selectors. They are protecting the kids selected! When you say there was bias, you are saying some players are not worthy. People will take offense to that, just like you are taking offense to your daughter not being selected.
That being said there is always some bias that comes along with familiarity, but the top 15 or so would be the top 15 or so at any tryout or college recruiting list. That list includes YJ's, TG and Liberty kids. After that you will have a larger pool of players that could possibly fill the back part of the roster. That is where the bias may come in to play, but all the kids and a few more are worthy. If a player had that good of a tryout they would stick out 2 fields over just like those top 15 do. That is why the whole bias conspiracy theories don't go anywhere because that no brainer girl who got left off doesn't exist.

Actually I think a lot of your issues are just simply a matter of your imagination. Alienating LI from the rest of the country just sounds ridiculous, and what relationship between skywalkers and Tg are you babbling about. How do you blame CR because TG kids do not show up because of a perceived bias. There are many kids who did not make UA who may have deserved it but I watched as much as I could and will tell you the kids that stood out in my daughters group made the team , my daughter did not. Your same logic can be applied to Shannon recruiting at Hofstra , are YJ parents calling the AD and whining like a bunch of babies that she only recruits TG kids ? No because they realize if you are good enough she will take you no matter what club you play for. Instead of naming names tell us what TG age group and what position got ripped.

They have to put those two on as they are undeniable. Its those kids who are even talent that get looked away.

I disagree.
First, How do you know a no brained was not left off. I'll go further and say even a YJ who doesn't suck up to Csrol WAS left off. The bias is now affecting YJ kids who don't "participate".
Second, your logic concerning the "top players" is a subjective list isn't it? Isn't that what tryouts are for? Further, using your logic UA should be by invite with the exception of the "back end" players. Who makes up the list of invited vs tryout kids. Carol? Your scenario is exactly where we are now sort of because SHE has a list of "top players" already picked and yes some are not deserving. That knowledge that the public has prevents kids from even showing up.
Lastly, the addition of a third goalie to the two returning kids from last year is an in your face move. It stinks of political patronage as the other two returners are unanimously the best in the state if not the country. Ask any coach (other than YJs Rose, Weiner and Ferraro).

The glaring example of the Y.J. bias is in the3rd goalie, To take her is a slap in the face to every other club. To be quite honest as far as goalies go, You can only make a case for the St. A. goalie for being among the best this year. The S.W.R goalie, though very good , was injured most of the year, and the E.S.M girl was clearly outplayed by a few this year most notably the goalie from Sayville. You might say that those three played better at the tryout, but lets be real, those girls were picked long before tryouts.

unanimously the best in the state if not the country, says who ? I think there is better than both Y.J. goalies. It's you that sounds biased. Take off the gold and blue collared glasses

Here is where you get it wrong. People are not protecting the selectors. They are protecting the kids selected! When you say there was bias, you are saying some players are not worthy. People will take offense to that, just like you are taking offense to your daughter not being selected.
That being said there is always some bias that comes along with familiarity, but the top 15 or so would be the top 15 or so at any tryout or college recruiting list. That list includes YJ's, TG and Liberty kids. After that you will have a larger pool of players that could possibly fill the back part of the roster. That is where the bias may come in to play, but all the kids and a few more are worthy. If a player had that good of a tryout they would stick out 2 fields over just like those top 15 do. That is why the whole bias conspiracy theories don't go anywhere because that no brainer girl who got left off doesn't exist. [/quote]

I disagree.
First, How do you know a no brained was not left off. I'll go further and say even a YJ who doesn't suck up to Csrol WAS left off. The bias is now affecting YJ kids who don't "participate".
Second, your logic concerning the "top players" is a subjective list isn't it? Isn't that what tryouts are for? Further, using your logic UA should be by invite with the exception of the "back end" players. Who makes up the list of invited vs tryout kids. Carol? Your scenario is exactly where we are now sort of because SHE has a list of "top players" already picked and yes some are not deserving. That knowledge that the public has prevents kids from even showing up.
Lastly, the addition of a third goalie to the two returning kids from last year is an in your face move. It stinks of political patronage as the other two returners are unanimously the best in the state if not the country. Ask any coach (other than YJs Rose, Weiner and Ferraro).
[/quote]
Here is where you look ridiculous, you want the team to be based on the tryouts yet you have decided who the goalies should be on past results. Again CR, TW were not at schoolgirls so how do explain those results. You sound like such a [lacrosse] when you imply only YJ players who suck up to CR make the team.Stop the whining , your kid did not make he team , so what .

ESM goalie wasn't outplayed by the sayville goalie. It was ESM stagnant offense and Sayville's defense that determined that game. ESM lost two games this season-but they also gave up the least amount of goals-she deserves to be there.

The poster touting the St As goalie apparently didn't actually see any of the schoolgirls games. Obvious from those games the two returners are justified being on the UA team.

What about the goal from past the 12 meter mark and the other bad goal? That kid never gets taken to task for her poor play. If you win it's always because of her. If you lose it's because your team didn't play well. Gosh Mr G.

You just don't get it. Do you want the picks to be based on past performance or on the tryout.

The pro-ESM goalie campaign on BOTC is a little bit awkward. That being said, I like many who post here witnessed that game and both goalies played well. I think the statistical edge favored the Sayville keeper. Stats certainly don't tell the story though. Sometimes the quality of the shots and saves and the goals given up is what counts, the basic eye test, Sayville keeper certainly gets the nod for that game.

Well probably a combo of both I guess. However if the St As kid just played poorly a week or so ago at an all star event, that should say something right. Didn't see it but heard about it.

The whole team is picked before tryouts! UA is no longer what it was years ago... Top players were taken... No politics

I am okay with that but then you will have a built in bias, obviously the evaluators have seen alot more of some kids than others. How bad could she have played her team won the whole thing and I believe she played half of every game.

If you want to see see first hand about BIAS just listen to Mike Quick and Raff from MSG interview Tracy Weiner for the MSG All Metro Team - they actually discuss how Carol, Tracy and Raff go into a board room to pick this team and how Tracy has to tell Raff who the best players are "because he thinks he knows what he is doing after 4 years."

http://www.msgvarsity.com/long-isla...158?localLinksEnabled=false&mode=www

So a reporter who is unbiased needs to be told who the best players are by a YJ director?

Don't get anyone started on the bias of MSG network, would love to see the connections which people have with that network. Thank God it is off the air. The nepotism on LI as far as HS sports is concerned has hurt more potential college athletes than any other part of the country. People on LI are really clueless how college recruiting is done today.

Such a joke watching the first few minutes. I wonder if another girl's club in CT, NY or NJ gets mentioned like the YJ's do. Such Bias. Weiner talks about "her girls" who don;t play for her at Farmingdale. If you are doing this for MSG, at least act like a real analyst and not a YJ Director.

Yes there is one on Monday Nights. Very competitive play. BDlax.com

Farmingdale goalie is the best goalie in the metro area? She's not the best goalie on Long Island.

Thank you! Post is dead on. She should not be on tv covering girls lax. It's like CNN reporting on Obama. Crazy.

http://www.msgvarsity.com/long-isla...158?localLinksEnabled=false&mode=www

What a ridiculous Yellow Jacket love festival. MSG should be embarrassed. Way to go guys. Your credibility just left the building. As did your integrity. It's all coming to an end... finally!!

Crazy? The only thing crazy is you! Get a grip! It's a TV show on HS girls Lax. It is for entertainment purposes! It isn't even aired on TV. The only people who watch it are people who have daughters playing! Do you actually let their selections bother you? oh the injustice!!! lol Let it go, it doesn't mean anything! It doesn't make your daughter any better or worse!

If the selectors were really being bias, why aren't there any Northport or Farmingdale girls on the UA team?

I agree let it go. If you watched the entire show they weren't all YJ players and not all TW players either. She had an All American from her team only get honorable mention. TW knows lax, knows stats and knows the girls bc she's out there and pays attention. All these girls are very deserving I know a few of them and NO my daughter is not one

Anyone else hear due to declining enrollment that East Islip,West Babylon and Happague are moving to Division 2 for the 2015 season?

And BBP moving up. Definitely the primo Division.