BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

Great post, very informative about the early recruiting process.

Please note to all posts that feel that the early commits are being attacked or discredited... They are not...

For each additional school year before a student athlete reaches college, The inherit risk of accuarely predicting a player's potential level of contribution at the college level is much greater.

No one can argue the fact that it is easier to predict how a senior may perform in 1 year, than a freshman will perform in 4 years...

Further the time horizon, more the risk -
that is the reason the majority of college lacrosse coaches do NOT offer verbals to freshman HS boys

We have seen parity in the sport since the Carolnas of the world keep leveling the playing field, with recruiting mistakes, while Lehigh and Loyola's recruiting patients have paid rich dividends
...and this is not "anecdotal"

Im confused.......Where are they patients......are they recruiting from a hospital??

Look on the U tampa website...2 transfers that wanted to put lacrosse in proper perspective.

That is very true... But I want to hear more from the poster who insists that 14-15 year old boys are fully developed physically and emotionally.... Cause that is good stuff

Couple that transferred to Cabrini, know of another at MD that gave up lax and left the school. No, not the one you think, but him too. Another at Stony Brook. I could go on. I'm sure if you researched it, you would be very surprised. Please understand, not knocking anyone's kid by any stretch. Just making the point that it is a very tough road. I commend those that can do it, and find fulfillment. I feel for the kids that for whatever reason it doesn't work out. Surely it is difficult for them. However, in some cases they may be much happier!

I didn't bite when a college coach sang the same song in an interview with my son...this is my profession, my job, not my hobby, been doing this since before you were born.

Lacrosse coaches are interested in keeping their jobs, which means winning. Some think that a mercenary approach to bet big earliest will pay off. So far, it hasn't. The poster above is right. Look at what Loyola and some other Patriot Conference leans have done. Look at what some of the rising Ivies are doing. Look at what Duke is doing. It is worth the world to wait and see how a kid develops through and a Summer beyond at least a Summer. Dueling philosophies, yes...but the above poster is right. Decent evidence is in that the programs rising are waiting, and the sacred cows that are all in with early recruiting are declining. Knowing nothing of the pipeline in NY, I could assure that a lot of the current IAC commits coming out of MD this year and in thr next few are the greatest story ever sold. Name the last IAC player who did anything at UNC or UVa. Bray Malphrus? Literally dozens of IAC players just taking up spots and dead money. Plenty made some plays that involved law enforcement. ..but just keeping it polite. A polite joke made to me, and IAC player's Dad. Thank god my kid is a good student considering all this early recruiting stuff may not be all that for him.

Just one quick thought; Why would we think that any new incoming coach would release the former coach's commitments? Would he not have to scramble to fill spots, with players who are headed elsewhere?

Most boys will reach their adult height before their 16th birthday. They will continue to "fill out" for a few more years. Kind of like a puppy at 6 months. As for emotional, some are mature at 15 some will not mature till 30, or maybe never. Academically, you will have a VERY good idea what type of student you are dealing with by the end of Freshman year. Kind of like having a VERY good idea what type of lacrosse player the kid is by that same time. Not saying their aren't exceptions to all my points, just stating on average.

Forgive me but arent the 2018's only 8th graders and not in Chaminade and St A's yet?

..so would one agree that; "there are exceptions to most every rule, and quoting one or two students' testimony regarding D1 schools, or Michael Jordan's late start at basketball, may not determine FACT for all kids/ athletes?

Be careful of averages. Boys are a different animal. I know a few kids in our well regarded district who in MS were 95 avg kids. Slipped to 90-91 freshman year and will graduate at about 88-89. Not something to slit ones wrists over, but some boys tend to get distracted later in HS. GIRLS, friends, parties, etc. You can only control so much. If your lucky enough to have a kid who is really driven in the classroom, that's great. Just beware, things change sometimes.

MThart boys will reach their adult height before their 16th birthday. They will continue to "fill out" for a few more years. Kind of like a puppy at 6 months. As for emotional, some are mature at 15 some will not mature till 30, or maybe never. Academically, you will have a VERY good idea what type of student you are dealing with by the end of Freshman year. Kind of like having a VERY good idea what type of lacrosse player the kid is by that same time. Not saying their aren't exceptions to all my points, just stating on average. [/quote]


Trusting the AMA and NIH, you are correct. Over 93% of boys are their mature height by and of 16th year. Isn't that when they are HS Spring sophomore or Fall juniors? Or when they are supposed to be without the sissy repeat grade stuff. That said, the highest rate of male muscle mass add is between 16 and 19. At 19 the non-vertical growth plates (rib cage) mature. That is when they are entered in college again assuming that the kid is not a grade repeater. In terms of maturity, I don't acknowledge your point at all. 14 year olds want to commit to Ohio State because the play on ESPNU and have cool uniforms. Or at least my 14 year old did. If after private schools he went to Ohio State I would just as soon jump off a bridge.

Yes, there is such a thing as a talented and smart 14 year old. Hard stop. They are just kids and and no way are mature in any of the ways you assert except for the point about being a smart/good student. At this point I know my oldest is a great student and my youngest is not. What is between your ears does not extrapolate to the physical or the maturity factors.

Being that this is a 2017 thread, do many districts "bring up" freshmen to Varsity, only to have them sit out completely, while they could help on JV? I've been hearing about this more lately. It seems as if the kid could be doing better for his school, playing, rather than watching.

Tambroni did that because the former coach was reckless in his commits prior to his departure and the program was in very bad shape. Not all the verbals were rescinded, just reevaluated. You can't expect a new coach to wait 4 years before they bring their own pics in when trying to rebuild. Granted they had a tough year, but the program is on an upswing. Some very good recruits coming in next year. Same will most likely happen when others coaches leave. I would expect that the majority of recruits will be retained in most cases.

This happens in many districts, very bad for the kids, they start the season excited and their spirits are broken as time goes on. Freshman should not be brought onto varsity when the coach has no intentions of playing them!

So is there a "magic" HS GPA score that gets you into nearly every school?I guess what I am asking, the coach asks your GPA, and you say 93, at NESCAC or Ivy or Patriot school, do you get in? or are these schools looking for 96+? I assume there is a sliding scale on just how talented the player is, but is there a GPA minimum number that if you are entertaining these schools you have to be above?

Michael Jordan is probably one of the most famous examples but the examples are NOT exceptions. The MLB, NFL and NHL are littered with these players. NBA a little different because the rosters are so small but they are there. What you fail to mention is that many kids also peak athletically at this time. The people who support early commits can always find fault with reason or just fall back on the jealousy line. Time will tell what happens with the early recruiting because it is so new. Lacrosse is the rare sport that seems to be handing out these early commitments to freshman more than any other sport.

Different theories on this. My kid is a 2017 (not held back) and plays Varsity on a perrenial tri-state lacrosse power. He is seeing the field, but in a relatively limited way. I believe he is getting much better due to the practices and playing with bigger, strong, faster, better players than he otherwise would at the JV or Varsity level. I think the trade off in playing time (less on Varsity) is worth it as he is no doubt getting much better. Just one man's opinion, not there there is one right or wrong school of thought.

The gpa question is a good one. Most schools regardless of ability have minimum requirements and or both sat/act scores. Then you need a certain grade to be eligible. Schools will work,with the more talented player but there is only so much a coach can do. Especially lacrosse because it isn't a money maker.

Tambroni did that because the former coach was reckless in his commits prior to his departure and the program was in very bad shape. Not all the verbals were rescinded, just reevaluated. You can't expect a new coach to wait 4 years before they bring their own pics in when trying to rebuild. Granted they had a tough year, but the program is on an upswing. Some very good recruits coming in next year. Same will most likely happen when others coaches leave. I would expect that the majority of recruits will be retained in most cases. [/quote]

Tambroni did that because he inherited a program in tough shape, he is under pressure to perform and you can't expect that he or another coach would wait through 4 years of onboarding players from the prior coach's recruiting efforts.

Doesn't that sound like more of what we could guess is the AVERAGE inheritance of a D1 program after the prior guy leaves? I think it is more the instance that at Harvard, you get a very isolated strata of recruits, and that is a school that recruits great students who are also athletes. Harvard, I would presume to be more the exception than the rule...but I suppose we are the guinea pig class and some of our families will find out if the coach who offered spot to our kids are out before Fall 2018. And that is a looooong time.

B

Ivy's use AI (academic index) and you can google it to find out how to calculate. Also, don't forget that High school profiles also are very important

Google "Academic Index" it is a formulaic way to measure GPA, Class Rank and Standardized Test Score - a 240 point scale. Above 200 is really good. Above 210 paired with a Blue Chip Lacrosse resume should get you into the Ivies. No Guarantees but a good indicator.

also depends on the strength of the jv team and the level of lacrosse your kid is capable of. if he is not going to play I would keep him down. let him develop some leadership abilities instead of water bottle boy or ball boy.

Yup....2 players equal "many"....and Tampa is a well known center for higher education...they def put lax in perspective with that move.

Waiting was not an option for those schools. All of the early blue chip players were snatched up early by the tier 1 schools. The rest needed to develop prior to other schools perusing them. Don't kid yourself into thinking these other schools do not try to speak with potential early commits. The facts are that the great players choose the great schools first. The rest of the second tier schools make due with what is left and these players are to be re evaluated as their games and physicality mature.

Tambroni did that because he inherited a program in tough shape, he is under pressure to perform and you can't expect that he or another coach would wait through 4 years of onboarding players from the prior coach's recruiting efforts.

Doesn't that sound like more of what we could guess is the AVERAGE inheritance of a D1 program after the prior guy leaves? I think it is more the instance that at Harvard, you get a very isolated strata of recruits, and that is a school that recruits great students who are also athletes. Harvard, I would presume to be more the exception than the rule...but I suppose we are the guinea pig class and some of our families will find out if the coach who offered spot to our kids are out before Fall 2018. And that is a looooong time. [/quote]

Isn't this ironic given that most coaches and parents tell the kids to pick the school that they would want to be at not because of the lacrosse but in the case where they blow out their knee and can never play again.

First: learn how to use the quote option. Clearly that wasn't taught at your institution of higher learning.

Second: it's none of your business as to which of the IVY's he attends nor his position as that is not relative to your claim of "many" D1 kids bail.

Do the math: 61 D1 programs with approx 44 players per team. 2 bailing here to tampa and a few more to other programs do not = "many". There is attrition in every discipline in college. Lacrosse is not the rate limiting step in this equation. There are myriad reasons as to why this will occur to 10's of 1000's of students each year across the nation.

Do not try to equate leaving a D1 lax school for any other reason than "life happens".

So I heard the StA freshman team is headed to Princeton to play a New Canaan and they are in a school bus? I'm sure the parents are happy to see their $9K being put to good use for their kids.

I agree, thanks for pointing this out.

Easy lax guru. 67 D1 teams, 69 next year with U Mass Lowell and NJIT coming on. Might want to check a few facts. You might be surprised how many kids leave freshman/sophomore year. Better make sure the kids are going to a school they like first, academics second, lax third. This goes for D,1,2 and 3.

FTF!!!!

How does the world look through your green little eyes.

Hey, I could not help butting in, but the remark about using the quote option. Would any institution of higher learning really support taking part in this? Come on, now......

Just havin' fun... :-)

That is a nominee for dumb comment of the week

School kids on a school bus! That is no way to treat these Freshman Athletes!!!

What are they using that tuition money for? Books? Teachers?

You mean my freshman athlete can play a quality tri-state opponent and do it on the fields at Princeton. Where do I need to drop him off for that school bus and what time does it leave

I understand your point and sarcasm. I have no problem with it, but you might be missing my point. The money people HAVE TO SPEND on everything at that school they should at least do the right thing by these young players.

Seems like a long ride for 35 to 45 players that are 14 & 15 year olds with gear in a school bus. "Lord" knows they have the money.