BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

Above is a very well positioned piece and from the way you write - an honest point of view. I agree with you and I too have seen the ups and downs that you reference. The one point you raise re more HS involvement in the town I strongly agree with. However, when they get involved they become anti-club and look to make the cash themselves, while hiding behind mission statement that they are building a program and you're with us or you're not (true statement actually said). Forget the building the program! Produce better players, keep kids involved in the sport, encourage elite travel play and act as an adviser to each family. The rest will work itself out. How about that for a crazy idea the school travel actually work with the travel teams. All of these tournaments and showcases are scheduled so far in advance that logistically it works to do both and successfully coexist.

This is a concept that I share a similar view with. Our child was "late to the PAL party". He did not show interest in lax until 5th grade. PAL was fundamentally valuable in exposure and learning the basics of the game. But that is where it stopped. He wasn't one of the sons of a coach, and did not have friends of sons of coaches. So his experience was limited even though his apptitude for the game was really high. He just wasn't getting a chance to be on the field. So we got him a coach to fill in the gaps. That was followed by immersion in club ball while the rest stayed "town" out of ?loyalty? (Or was it fear?). Word was that the HS coaches would start "town locals" on varsity.
Fast forward to middle school...PAL dads weren't the coaches anymore. Totally different kids became the starters (my son included) than had been the previous three years of PAL. The few kids who left to play club ball not only became starters but became impact players and leaders in their own part of the field; be it A,M or D. PAL loyalists were outraged. How could their kids not be the starters as per usual?

The point is that leaving the bubble of town PAL and exploring the vast experiences that are coupled with elite travel teams afforded these divergent kids the opportunity to grow; to be exposed to different coaches and develop stronger skill sets and to be more vastly challenged in the higher level of tournaments that they traveled to.

Why then wouldn't the HS coaches take advantage of this "farm league" concept of sending the kids out to play club ball; knowing that they would eventually return to the school fold in HS to bring these experiences of playing at a higher level back the the HS teams? This in turn would yield more experienced players lending their skills to the kids who stayed "town ball only". It would be a win-win situation.

Unless the Varsity coach is also running a youth travel team in that town he could care less where kids play. Also,once you get to Varsity you have 4 grades of kids in the mix, sometimes 5. Kids that are going to be D1 are often playing Varsity in 8th grade. Th truth is most kids play both travel and town. Sometimes when your kid is good and he enters lax a little later on he ends up being put on D. The better stick handlers usually , not always gravitate to offense. When a coach gets an athletic kid who hasnt handled a stick yet he usually giddy to put him on D, then the team starts to lean on him being and its hard to break out of that spot.

Exactly. Hopefully all the town die hards are listening. No need to choose one vs the other. Club ball enhances the players god given ability and in-turn helps the school program be a better program. And look to the right of this screen there are several club options and finding the right fit for a child's ability to grow their game isn't that hard.

Good read - it touches on the debate here - in some areas. Full disclosure - I don't have a kid on 91 - but read Spallina's comments - I have to say I agree with his view.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/multimedi...racket-and-those-who-profit-from-it.aspx

Is it fair to say that in some towns the people who run the youth lacrosse league have preyed upon the uneducated consumer?

Is it fair to say that they have misled the community?

Is it fair to say that the people who control the youth league are the same people who have created a divide in the community that they profess to serve?

Is it fair to say that much animosity could have been avoided.

Is it fair to say that power corrupts and that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Take a look at the situation in your community and think about what you have been told by the people who run your league. Now, compare what is said to what is actually done by the people who run the league. Think logically about the situation in your town. Don't think about "the feel good sounds good" things like staying together or being loyal, think about what is done. Do kids get cut? Are there "A" and "B" Teams at very young grades? Do they mix grades? Is winning more important than development? As the kids approach recruiting age is anyone there to help navigate the process? Are there different rules for different teams/kids? Is there coercion? is there collusion? Have kids been excluded?

Compare what has been said to what has been done in your town.

if you didn't take the time to read the article in the link that the previous poster provided see below.

Here are some exscipts from March 2014 Lacrosse Magazine Article titled "Beware the Recruiting Racket" by Justin Feil.


-“Make sure kids’ lacrosse IQ is being developed,” said Joe Spallina, the Stony Brook women’s coach, Team 91 coach for his sons’ youth teams and coach of the MLL’s New [lacrosse] Lizards. “Club lacrosse is similar to honors classes. I want my kids with the best teachers, the best students. I want the bar as high as possible. I don’t want a low bar and great results.”

-“Look out for manipulative practices,” Trevor Tierney said. “If a club team is hiring a high school coach and the high school coach is saying, ‘If you want to play for this high school, you have to play for this club team’ — if there’s a form of coercion — that’s when there are red flags.”

-Because of that conflict of interest, Shriver (Boys Latin Head Coach) has turned down opportunities to start a club program. “It’s ripe for potential problems,” he said.

-“No one ever said it, but when you go to your first tournament, it’s clearly where the college coaches are going,” Kathy Weeks said. “No one is going to your high school games.”

-With recruiting starting earlier, college coaches are coming to club coaches sooner, and players don’t want to get left behind.

-“The right club turnover happens between eighth and ninth grade,” Stagnitta said. “That’s when it goes from instructional/learning, to what team goes to exposure events, who has access to good tournaments.”

-The number of players in a club and on each team will factor into the attention your child will receive from coaches and colleges. Rosters should be in the low 20s.

-“You want the best kids with the best kids,” Spallina said. “It’s nice to see a kid playing with lesser kids and doing it all by himself or herself, but you want to see them with good players.”

This is what is happening out there in the lacrosse world. What has your town told you?

-“No one ever said it, but when you go to your first tournament, it’s clearly where the college coaches are going,” Kathy Weeks said. “No one is going to your high school games.”

Maybe yes , maybe no. I have seen top D1 coaches at HS games. PLUS, the best HS players get invited to showcases WITHOUT having to be on a club team. If your HS has a reputable coach and he calls a program and tell them " I have a kid your going to want to see" there going to look at him.

By the way, theres an article out in Lax magazine this month talking about how coaches are looking more for athletes then polished lacrosse players

- http://laxmag.us/1cz6fo1

Kind of the opposite of whats been written above.

That's because what was written above was done by an owner of one of the clubs to the right!!

It appears that many people still have your head in the sand.

You are correct! My so got an offer to attend Maryland after being seen at the Suffolk County Coaches Showcase last year, without playing on a travel team!

I must have missed it. Where is it written above that kids should only play lacrosse?

The article is full of weak arguments! I would like to see the statistics to back up his opinions, oh, he has none!

I think kids should play what they like. If that's three sports great, if that's one sport, that's great too.
Also, I'd like to challenge the idea that playing football or basketball some how makes you better at Lacrosse? Or vice verse? It is the silliest thought with zero research to back up the notion. What I will say, is if you can play three sports in HS than it is the kids god given athletic ability to do that. Not the other way around. Playing one sport did not magically give you the ability to play the other.
Further, look at basketball kids from the cities. Do they play lacrosse or football to get better at basketball? No of course not. They play basketball year round everyday, and that how they become superstars. Is anyone telling them you should really play Lacrosse to be a better player? So silly.

Not looking for polished lacrosse players? So what are they looking for in ninth graders? Those that shave their peach fuzz?

They are looking for athletes. Not the first time I have heard this. Many college teams would rather take a kid with more athletic ability then a kid with less but better stick skills. They figure they can coach him up and at the end of the day his physical talent will be too much for the guy with good stick skills but a ceiling. This always upsets parents whose kids have put in a ton of time and developed skills, that a kid who did not put in as much time simply gets taken because he is bigger and faster sends them off the cliff,

That's why I think recruiting these kids now seems so odd. I know my son is going to be over 6 ft - but now as an 8th grader he is 5'4'' he'll be a way different player in few years.

You can keep telling yourself this, but my son who is D1 recruited to a top program with a very good scholarship, only plays lax. We went on many visits. The coaches may admire a kid for being involved in other sports, but they are recruiting based on what they saw on the LACROSSE field! stop this nonsense. If playing another sport helps you kids get better at lax, kudos to your son! In the final analysis, coaches recruit based on what they observe on the lax field. Period!

There is no checklist of things that they are looking for. It takes about a minute to decide, if that. It's not a process that can easily be put on paper or described - a top flight prospect is like porn, you know it when you see it.

Way off base and CREEPY!

Agree completely. I think the whole "we love multisport athletes" bit is just a PC thing these coaches say to make themselves feel and sound more open minded. I have a hard time believing they are ever going to take anything other than the absolute best lacrosse players they can get their hands on. If the best player they can sign happens to play other sports then I think what they mean is that tis not held against the kid and may even be a positive....but that is very different from suggesting that they affirmatively look to recruit multisport athletes other non-multisport athletes.

If any of the coaches quoted in the article think it is more healthy, etc. for their own children to diversify into other sports that is a very reasonable choice for them to make as parents.....but stop peddling this fantasy to the larger lax community wherein less talented multisport athletes beat out better kids who only play lax. It is just silly.

You keep telling yourself he will be over 6.

Of course INCLUDING SPEED AND SIZE. A less polished athlete will often be taken over a more polished athlete if he has better physical quality's. Why do you think the NFL has a combine ? How many lax players do strength and agility training ?

As long as you keep telling yourself that 5'7'' is tall. lol. better get your commit now.

#1 team in the nation, which plays at SB today has an average player height of 6'1''

Oh yeah, and the well known kid who scored 5 goals against Duke was a lax ONLY kid in HS..... One final note on this recruit athletes and not lacrosse players. Take a look at Syacuse. For years they recruited heavily upstate NY and LI. As a result they were able to tell recruits they would win a national championship during their time on the team. Which was true. Then they got the let's recruit football players from Texas and other atheletes mentality, instead of pure lax talent. Well not sure if that the reason for their lack luster performance lately, but they sure aren't what they used to be! Still a great program but way off from the glory years.

You guys are missing the point. Its not about playing other sports, or playing other sports making you better. Its about colleges prefer a kid who is bigger and faster with less lax skills. YOu can't teach speed.

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Or there is more competion and many more colleges fielding teams. Talent will no longer be just from LI and MD. Youth programs are starting all over the country. Pretty sure everyone reading this would be pretty happy if their kid was given an oppertunity to play on this "lack luster" program!

Have to agree. Not one of the better academic lax programs, now their performance is fading. Will be tough to attract great players which will escalate their downward momentum. Desko can keep blaming it on faceoffs, but he recruited these kids. He wasn't willing to shell over the big scholarship money for a good one, now his program will continue to suffer.

At the recruiting meeting held for parents and athletes at the Jake Reed tryouts in Florida, they specifically told the boys that the majority of D1 players are multi-sport athletes and when you send in a video of you playing lacrosse throw one in of you playing that other sport.

Last year the T award givin to the best player in college lax went to a guy who lettered in 3 sports .

Channy kid 5;9 maybe? 5 goals against # 1 Duke, end of story.

Or there is more competion and many more colleges fielding teams. Talent will no longer be just from LI and MD. Youth programs are starting all over the country. Pretty sure everyone reading this would be pretty happy if their kid was given an oppertunity to play on this "lack luster" program! [/quote]

Nope, my son visited and thought it was a dump! And yes they did make a recruiting offer. He accepted a better offer at a better school. And nobody cared that he only played one sport!!8rn7p

Making it to the final game last year and winning the first half of that game is "way off" from their glory years? Really? Hate to be the kid that has to live up to your expectations. Please, Cuse is still one that gets circled on every schedule.

Gotta reach for the stars, and hope to land on the moon! Syracuse is not what it once was, and headed down!

Don't kid yourself, Syracuse is really good. Just shows how bad things can become when you lack a credible fogo. As we tell our kids, face offs and ground balls are crucial. Ask Hofstra what happens when you lose the ground ball battle.

Not kidding myself PAL super coach, Cuse is good. Just not the dominate team they once were. That's a fact.

You mean like going 16-4 in 2013 and losing three games by one goal? Yeah they aren't as good. You should be an analyst on ESPNU. Besides a 43% face off win percentage, would you care to give us your detailed analysis of where they are lacking? Can't wait to see this. Look out Quint, your job is in jeopardy. By the way, there is one football player from Texas and he plays defense, the 4th leading scorer happens to be from Oregon , and 25 players are from upstate and Long Island. Lelan Rogers, someone is looking to take over as recruiting coordinator.

Who cares if Syracuse is good?

The question is, "is there a conflict of interest when a HS coach runs a for profit Summer Team".

Yes, there is a conflict of interest.

There is only a conflict of interest when your child doesn't get enough playing time. Most HS travel teams cost a fraction of the summer club teams.