BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

There is only a conflict of interest when your child doesn't get enough playing time. Most HS travel teams cost a fraction of the summer club teams.

The trend of the 9th grade commit will be over very soon
1- most 9 grade recruits are a result of stage mom like parental behavior, parading their early polished and early peaked son from one recruiting camp to recruiting camp
2- teams like Carolina missing final four for decades
3- early recruiting colleges are wondering why those early recruits seem to ride the pine, transfer or simply hang it up as upper class man

The college coaches are being duped... In the end no one is happy because the talents, wants and desires of a 14 year old is certain to change in 4-5 years

Look at Coach Pietramala's quote below from a recent article in the Sun. Sort of sums it up.

"How all of this will serve us? None of us knows yet," Pietramala said. "I can't tell you if it's great, I can't tell you it is wrong, but I worry."

The trend of the 9th grade commit will be over very soon
1- most 9 grade recruits are a result of stage mom like parental behavior, parading their early polished and early peaked son from one recruiting camp to recruiting camp
2- teams like Carolina missing final four for decades
3- early recruiting colleges are wondering why those early recruits seem to ride the pine, transfer or simply hang it up as upper class man

The college coaches are being duped... In the end no one is happy because the talents, wants and desires of a 14 year old is certain to change in 4-5 years

You have no idea what you're talking about! Early committing will continue because on average, the great kids in 8th/9th grade will be the great kids in 12th and beyond! Colleges will continue to attempt to secure these committments, because on average, these kids will perform. Of couse there will bw a few that don't produce, as well as some late bloomers, but that will be the exception. You make a lot of bold claims, with no actual data to back up what you're saying!

I saw COach D from Duke talk about this very subject. They all hate it, they wish the NCAA would stop it but they appear to be going in the opposite direction. AS long as these are the rules they have no choice in the matter

I don't know how you reach that conclusion.....but am also not sure anyone can say this accelerated recruitment is the wave of the future. It is a relatively new phenomenon to recruit this early and there is not enough data to demonstrate whether these early commits are good bets or not. Time will tell....

Its been going on for a long, long time in other sports... No end in sight unless rules are put in place. You will see an 8th grader commit in the next year or two. Just a few years ago it was considered crazy when a rising sophomore committed.

Publically announcing an early commit is a new phenomenon but early scouting and early recruiting have been going on in all sports for a very long time. Both pro and college coaches and scouts have been trying to identify young talent for many years. Baseball, Basketball Hockey etc. know who the talented kids are at a very young age.

High School coaches don’t like it because in some ways it makes them less relevant.
Parents of players who are not getting interest from college coaches don’t like it because they know that there are only so many “spots” available at the top Lacrosse Schools.

The reality is that college coaches are out there trying to identify young talent that the coach believes can help their program win. These coaches are not going to 99.9 percent of the High School Lacrosse games that are played each Spring. The coaches are not going to any middle school / JHS games. The College Coaches are going to specific recruiting events that may not be open to all players. The coaches are going to Summer and Fall Tournaments to watch the best club teams in their rising 9th and 10th grade year.

There are some exceptions to the rule. If you are a 9th or 10th grader who starts on a great HS Team that makes it deep into the playoffs in NY, MD, PA you will not be overlooked.

Does anyone know the percentage of 2017 and 2016 early commits who did not play for a Select Club Team? I think the large majority of the early commits developed their skill on a club team and were eventually identified and recruited. All of the kids will play for their HS Team but many will develop and get recruited as a result of their club experience.

Love to see stats on early commits and transfer rates.

The early commits are still in HS. Kids transfer all the time it is nothing new.

In West Islip many or most of the boys play for the town travel team only and get recruited to some top D 1 schools

I believe they only had 2 D-1 last year and this year have 3 seniors committed to lower level D-1 and a sophomore to Penn State, who played some as a freshman and whose dad was a college asst. coach if I'm not mistaken. There may be others committed who haven't been in the lax press. The way recruiting is now for the top schools it will be harder for these kids to get recruited. In the past, the H.S. staff did a great job getting kids recruited, but that was varsity kids who the coaches knew. With a push now for sophomores and freshman commits, I think the town only concept, while great for program consistency may wind up hurting some kids.

HS coaches--at least at WM--do not know players until they get older. They are not watching 7th grade or 8th grade lax except for one game at the end of the year--middle school gelinas vs middle school murphy...

Further, the HS coaches have been very clear that players are responsible for all recruiting efforts. I know they will take calls and help in any way possible, but they aren't going to be proactive and don't know the younger kids at all--they are are two years removed from where college coaches are looking. There is no one talking about Jake Reed or Maverick, either the players and parents know or they don't ...

We love the WM program, but there is much to be said for the select team programs (91, LIE, ...).

For anyone just starting out, do not just sit there and wait to be discovered. No matter what all of the numbskulls on this board think, there are only a few levels of players. It is the same at every age group, the very best kids, all the others that are in the middle and then the bottom group.

there are changes to the structure from one year to the next based upon growth spurts, but ultimately the groups look pretty similar from 4th grade through 12th. The stud athletes tend to remain studs (unless there advantage was size)

Many of the kids in the middle of the pack, assuming they work hard and really want it (not all kids do) can play at D-1.

But it is up to you, the parent and the player to put yourself in the best possible position. If you are the best one on your HS team, I agree, someone will find you, but if you are in the top 5-10, the only way you will get recruited is if you send tapes and show up at events that your desired college attends...

It is like anything else in life, you need to put yourself in a position to succeed. early bird gets the worm...

As for topic, of course it is a conflict, but everything is relative. Depending on where you are on the coach's depth chart, you are either happy of sad. let's face it, lots of politics, for those with good connections the system works, for those without connections, you need to work the system....

HS coaches--at least at WM--do not know players until they get older. They are not watching 7th grade or 8th grade lax except for one game at the end of the year--middle school gelinas vs middle school murphy...

Further, the HS coaches have been very clear that players are responsible for all recruiting efforts. I know they will take calls and help in any way possible, but they aren't going to be proactive and don't know the younger kids at all--they are are two years removed from where college coaches are looking. There is no one talking about Jake Reed or Maverick, either the players and parents know or they don't ...

We love the WM program, but there is much to be said for the select team programs (91, LIE, ...).

For anyone just starting out, do not just sit there and wait to be discovered. No matter what all of the numbskulls on this board think, there are only a few levels of players. It is the same at every age group, the very best kids, all the others that are in the middle and then the bottom group.

there are changes to the structure from one year to the next based upon growth spurts, but ultimately the groups look pretty similar from 4th grade through 12th. The stud athletes tend to remain studs (unless there advantage was size)

Many of the kids in the middle of the pack, assuming they work hard and really want it (not all kids do) can play at D-1.

But it is up to you, the parent and the player to put yourself in the best possible position. If you are the best one on your HS team, I agree, someone will find you, but if you are in the top 5-10, the only way you will get recruited is if you send tapes and show up at events that your desired college attends...

It is like anything else in life, you need to put yourself in a position to succeed. early bird gets the worm...

As for topic, of course it is a conflict, but everything is relative. Depending on where you are on the coach's depth chart, you are either happy of sad. let's face it, lots of politics, for those with good connections the system works, for those without connections, you need to work the system....

Do you know how many 4th grade studs are no longer studs in forget 12th, how about 9th? I know I coached them. Many of these kids developed quicker than the others. Additionally, regardless of size, many had birthdays 6-9 months sooner than the less developed players. By 9th grade much of that advantage has disappeared. The most interesting part is that those 3rd, 4th, 5th graders who have been continually put on "A" travel teams might be in for a rude awakening when that good but not great player, surpasses them in HS. The rudest awakening is for their parents, when they cry politics, wondering why their meal ticket was sent to the "B" team.

Well said by both posters. Seen it happen!

HS coaches--at least at WM--do not know players until they get older. They are not watching 7th grade or 8th grade lax except for one game at the end of the year--middle school gelinas vs middle school murphy...

Further, the HS coaches have been very clear that players are responsible for all recruiting efforts. I know they will take calls and help in any way possible, but they aren't going to be proactive and don't know the younger kids at all--they are are two years removed from where college coaches are looking. There is no one talking about Jake Reed or Maverick, either the players and parents know or they don't ...

We love the WM program, but there is much to be said for the select team programs (91, LIE, ...).

For anyone just starting out, do not just sit there and wait to be discovered. No matter what all of the numbskulls on this board think, there are only a few levels of players. It is the same at every age group, the very best kids, all the others that are in the middle and then the bottom group.

there are changes to the structure from one year to the next based upon growth spurts, but ultimately the groups look pretty similar from 4th grade through 12th. The stud athletes tend to remain studs (unless there advantage was size)

Many of the kids in the middle of the pack, assuming they work hard and really want it (not all kids do) can play at D-1.

But it is up to you, the parent and the player to put yourself in the best possible position. If you are the best one on your HS team, I agree, someone will find you, but if you are in the top 5-10, the only way you will get recruited is if you send tapes and show up at events that your desired college attends...

It is like anything else in life, you need to put yourself in a position to succeed. early bird gets the worm...

As for topic, of course it is a conflict, but everything is relative. Depending on where you are on the coach's depth chart, you are either happy of sad. let's face it, lots of politics, for those with good connections the system works, for those without connections, you need to work the system....

Seeing it also firsthand. Pal player in town grew 5 inches since last year.

WM and WI are a good comparison because they are similar traditional successful programs with the same philosophy- kids playing together bond better and the team first concept makes the difference come playoff time. From what I hear, WI doesn't frown on playing club in H.S. as long as the H.S. summer program comes first in conflicts. Does WM do the same ?

Hey we all forgot one aspect of the game. Keeping your kid back a year so he is a year older than everyone else with the thought he will have an edge. Heard it is turning into the norm in Maryland. Cheaper than prep school. lol If they posted birthdates you would be shocked. There are players a year and a half older than my son but in the same grade. The best edge a player can have is grades. Opens more doors than anything else