BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2017 Fall 2013/Summer 2014

The earlier poster who is adamant that there all appointments are individual and not to and through club owners is plainly incorrect. Every year the Crabs owner communicates to his U-15 and then current freshman & sophomore team coaches the # of bespoke spots he has for the club. The coaches and the owner discuss and the owner has the last word on who gets and who does not. Maybe that is increasingly less common now with JR and 3d in bed with each other and trying to maximize revenue by having 2000 kids audition in Florida at $700 per, but so that this thread is not misinformed there are elite club teams and prep school teams that get bespoke spots. Our son's school coach has two and my son got one of them which we declined because he is going to Showcase and one $$$ thing like that is enough if he plays well enough. So this is two posters telling you we do have a clue as to how it worked - and worked out - for us. Congrats that your son got a direct invite from JR himself. Certainly something to be proud of. But curb the lunacy and misinformation. You're wrong on this one.

You are right - while the invites come directly from Jake, he certainly has a trusted network of high school and club coaches who he solicits input from. Whether or not there are "dedicated slots" I can't say, but to think he does this in a vacuum in foolish.

I just saw him at the 3d Blue Chip in Florida, and at best he was a passive observer of the the kids playing their four games. While the invite says Jake and Jamie they are obviously relying heavily on the two evaluators. Jamie is a lot more tuned into the games.

Let's be blunt...what you wrote is exactly why 3d is hated in Baltimore (and JR is a Baltimore guy, long time former M.I.A.A. coach). JR sold out for the money, the money is very good and he is basically getting rich for being a disinterested spectator. JR is just a namesake, it is a 3d camp with his brand name on it. The prestige of that is rapidly diminishing and deservedly so.

In any case; they gather a great group of players who get a chance to play together and further their skills and I would say that last summer's group was fairly representative of the upper echelon of the 2017 class of players

getting a direct invite didn't hurt the wallet as much but it sure has been expensive along the way to say the least

Totally agree with you - the overall talent at the first session in Florida was mediocre at best. There were some good players who could hang with anyone from any region, but was astonished with the overall level of play and kids who seriously couldn't catch and throw - I think by the time you take the direct invites and the one's picked via the 3d Blue Chip you have a pretty solid group, but this is turning into a money grab. I don't want to totally diss 3d, because the training is good, and it exposes kids to techniques many of them have never seen before, but at this point they need fewer kids or fewer cycles to maintain the quality of play.

I think what is being lost in translation is that every region differs in talent. An amazing player in lets say Florida is only mediocre in MD and NY. If I may use the example of the Olympics vs regions. Is it fair to say that Italy wont put a good basebal team together but those players playing for the Olympic team and are the best that that country has to offer. Comparing some of these new to lacrosse regions to an area that has a long history of lacrosse like Long Island is just unfair. So having regions is a good way to promote the sport. The best areas will have the toughest competition and things are harder for those kids and thats just the way it is. Cream always rises to the top and as the sport grows so will the talent pool. Look at Texas and California. They are producing some great teams.

I was the poster above and appreciate this response...lacrosse is a fairly immature sport in high growth mode and I get it that kids from other regions can play in front of the coaches they want to be recruited by. I think 3d lost their soul along the way. Yes, they have good coaches and instruction for their teams. But at another level they are doing harm with overdoing the recruiting showcase extortion. We're idiots. This is a 12.6 scholarship for 45 spots sport. So those of us who pay $700 for Florida then $700 for U.N.C. camp on way home are basically investing what we HOPE will be yielded in scholarship cash? Someone needs to start doing parent financial advisory showcases for this group. Anyone want to partner up with me on that? $700 a session. Debit or PayPal.

You are right on! More kids are getting there looks from Showtime, which is local for LI and so much more bang for the buck!!

Can someone explain to me how a PG year works and the benefits? I guess similar to what Pannell did.

With Boarding it cost’s $57K to attend Deerfield, he then used this as a spring board to Cornell, Ivy league which doesn’t offer scholarships. Financially, do the families cover the full cost of PG with the expectation of an IVY education? I understand there are grants etc to help out with the tuition at Cornell but $57K is a lot to absorb just to get there. Anyone familiar with how the PG avenue works?

Yes, I went to a NE boarding school a generation ago. Then it was almost always athletes, mostly hockey players from Canada, who were recruited heavily by an Ivy but could not get through admissions. So spend a year at a prep school as PG and it would qualify the kid for Harvard, Cornell, etc.

I remember it being nothing about trying to be recruited as an athlete...the PG system was always a "academic boost" year for ringers who were already heavy recruits. The college coaches would steer kids to places like Deerfield and Deerfield sure didn't mind getting great hockey players who had a spot at an Ivy all but waiting for them.

So maybe things have changed, but back then it was not something to do to get noticed or have another stab at impressing coaches. It was all about getting hot recruits academically eligible. Also, the Canadians used to get close to full financial aid. Check the endowment for the likes of Deerfield and you will see what I mean. Some of these prep schools have enormous endowments and can give aid very generously when needed. So if your concern is dollars and you have a need, the aid will be there.

You need to set your sights on good academic schools in DIII. If your son has decent grades he can get $15,000 to $20,000 a year or more in academic and merit money. Seems floe freely for lax players. Oh, and if your son decides he doesn't want to play or has an injury the money is still there for all four years. $60-80k in merit and academic money compensates ol Dad for a lot of tournaments, lessons, camps and clinics....

That post makes all the sense in the world. Lacrosse is for 4 years, and a degree is for life. What school would you rather have a degree from, Tufts or BU?

I think BU (Boston University) is a bad example, I do get your point and agree with you. but BU is a very good school.

Your going to need more than "decent" grades to get into a NESCAC, Patriot or Ivy.

IVY

True with regard to NESCAC. Patriot and Ivy are not DIII. Poster above was referring to economics of fractional scholarships at D1 schools and how little money they dole out. The other poster offered D3 as an alternative that will give money for good students and are free with merit money for athletes. Further, unless your son is interested in studying liberal arts, then NESCAC schools are not for your son. Unless he is completely hooked on grad school, I'm not sure what he will do with a liberal arts degree? Regardless of how well regarded the school is. It has been well documented recently in the WSJ that there is little or no value in a liberal arts degree. It ranks as the major with the highest level of joblessness amongst all degrees. Before you all jump out of your skin to prove me wrong, I suggest you read the articles. Further, I suggest folks stop with all name brand school stuff. I hope you realize in many instances you are paying through the nose for those brands. I will tell you as someone who has hired many people in my career for very good six figure plus positions, I never made my decision to hire someone based on the school they went to. I'm all for giving kids as much opportunity as you can, however the equation doesn't always add up to the perception.

BU

BU is a top 50 international University whose graduates are routinely sought after by employers:

http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/10-universities-with-the-most-ambitious-students.html

There is no drop off between Tufts and BU - I would be proud to send my children to either school.

Good conversation. The secret to all this madness is to use the lacrosse to get into a better school. D1 , 2 or 3. I think most will be surprised at the lattitude for the Athlete.

Big gap vs traditional Student.

Another 2017 commit according to Ty Zanders at Inside Lacrosse - Kevin Gill, Middie, from Leading Edge (NJ). Apparently his older brother is committed to Duke.

The ? is not relative, Tufts and BU are both highly regarded University's, with Tufts being one of the premier D-3 programs and BU a new D-1 program. the ? should be about the student athlete,such as what course of study do I want? does this school offer that? can I compete at that level? will I get on the field? and so on.

Isn't the real question whether or not you want to be known as a Jumbo?

Was just down at the UNC camp. Full disclosure, I have a son in the 2016 class and I had never seen the 2017 class play prior to the camp. I have to say for all of the noise on this thread about recruiting, I was thoroughly unimpressed with the talent in the 2017 class at UNC. I saw incredibly low lax IQ, shoddy passing and catching with balls going out of bounds on almost every posession and goalies that stood a foot below the cross bar. I would say no more than 10% of the 2017s at the camp could hang in a 2016 game let alone be even remotely on any recruiting radar. Unless the talent at the camp was not representative of the upper tier of the class, IMHO this now appears to be the most self absorbed and over-hyped class (and group of parents) yet. Sorry for the reality check but these boys need a few more years of seasoning before any colleges should be looking at them.

Saw this kid play vs. Team 91 at the Terrapin Classic in the Fall. Very good player, Leading Edge is a good team.

Agreed, and I bet the kid who just committed was not there!

One year makes a big difference. Playing one year in high school and in the high end club circuit, learning how to play in showcases, prospects days, etc. makes a big difference. I agree there is a lot of development needed, but I also assure you there are a lot of very good players among those that attended UNC in the 2017 class who will end up at top schools.

They were smart to seperate the 2017s from the 2016s. They would have been crushed. Although at some point this year they will be mixing and it will be ugly.

I would imagine most of the best players were not there! If already a top player then you are already committed or already fielding offers so why would you go? What you saw was more than likely the 2nd tier of 2017 talent! That was not a very well throughout post! If your in the top tier of your class, sorry but there is no need to go to these camps with everyone else. Your already committed, offered or on their radar. Duh!
And dad, if your 2016 is there... Well then their you go because most of the top teams have already filled up their spots for 2016 class so your probably at the wrong schools. The TOP players do not need to go to these "prospect" camps. They are for everyone else. Sorry!

Pretty arrogant statement.

Maybe so but it's true. Not meant to be anything but an explanation of who he saw talent wise at this camp and why.

There is nothing wrong with going to prospect days. They are open to anyone who signs up and pays. Some top players go to them, and some go to showcases. I'd rather spend the time and money going to these over a showcase (Showtime excepted) to see the schools and God forbid see the campus, do an admissions tour, etc.

Get over another point you can't agree with. There is nothing to point to showing "the best players" are the early commits. The early commits in our area are the hardest charging parental units who would have a blown up ego if their son didn't win some early commit race. By my estimation the best team is Turtles and those kids are not plunging. No Breakers kids. None of the top 5-6 VLC kids. None of the top 5-6 FCA Balt kids. Think maybe some of these kids aspire to Ivy or Patriot league teams or Duke or ND...none of which seem to be in any hurry or just don't go for 9th grade commits?

Early commit list has good players, yes. Mostly the best players? Can't say that.

Arrogant, misinformed, ridiculous statement. The 2017 kiddie from Leading who just committed today was at the camp. I guess he sucked and didn't need to attend any prospect days. They wanted to see him play in from of their entire coaching staff.

I wasn't at UNC but have heard college coaches say the 2016 class is loaded with talent. Figure all the best 2016's are committed and weren't at UNC. What does that say for the 2017's?

Oh yes you're right. Everyone knows all the best players on their teams aren't selected, recruited or drafted until the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds. It's important to keep in Mind this arms race these coaches are involved in is for the best talent and is for their livelihoods.

I would imagine and common sense would dictate that with limited spots per class 9-12 to work with, and most of them filling up quickly, these top programs and coaches target their top prospects 1st and try to wrap them up ASAP. It is a very competitive situation for them with these top players being offered multiple deals from multiple schools. So if you really want him, you'd better get him 1st. And if your not one of those on your team then your probably not yet in that situation to be considering a commitment or offer. That's ok but your also probably in all honesty not the best 5 or 6 on your team.
But also best is subjective and I would probably say best "fit" for each program. I would think like in every other sport, the top players are taken first. Maybe not who "you"!think is best, "your son" but certainly the top players and the best fit according to the top programs. I don't think the parents are pushing as much as you might think!

It seems to me that most of the 2017 commits are really 2016s in PG drag. There really isn't much identifiable D1 talent in the "true" 2017 class. At least not yet.

UNC was not an invite camp. If they want the best talent, they need to be a bit more selective and not run the application process like a radio station sweepstakes "First 100 callers get an invite!" It's an obvious money-grab dressed up to look like an elite showcase.

The whole early commit thing is blown out of proportion. I can understand if a 2017 commits to a top 10 school, like west point, duke or UVA, but 3 years is a long time to wait to go to a college, the coaching staff could change, the student’s goals for an education could change. I believe the best time to commit would be the summer before there junior year. Ask a 2017 student what they want to pursue as a degree in college, I bet most of them have no idea. As far as the top tier 2017 are all committed and only the leftovers are attending the showcase, you may friend are clueless, keep telling yourself that. I know of three cases where a walk on took a spot from a recruited player. The end result of everything we do for our kids is to get them into a great school, get a great education and possibility of playing lacrosse at a high level, not brag that they “verbally committed at the age of 14/15 years old”. When the time comes when they do commit I would be more excited if it’s to a school that has a major that they would want , and not just a great lacrosse college.

I have news for you all the top players 2017 class were home mulling over offers or are committed in one form or another. They were not down at UNC. Plenty of talent in the 2017 class. If you are not aware of this then you're living under a rock. Not saying that the 2016 class isn't incredibly talented but don't for a second think the UNC camp was representitve of the best 2017's. THAT IS A FACT!!!!

UNC Camp is an outstanding camp for recruitment. Open to all see you get a few who don't belong. Great list of Colleges attending.