BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2025-11th Grade Fall 2023/Summer 2024

It’s kinda simple. It’s hard for a team that didn’t win a game last year to get 4 star level recruits. So they get really good players, just not kids in the top 75 or so. I think they will be better and more competitive. But they have to develop and get some luck with their recruits before they are winning the big east imho.

It’s more. Kids and parents play for everything including travel, gear etc. Some have some funds allocated or donations but most are self funded.

Can be up to $2500 but there is a lot of fundraising. Look at the SEC. They have some very competitive teams

My nephew played for LSU. The fees were around $2500 plus fundraising means hitting the family up for money. At the time he played (few years ago) each kid had a dollar amount they needed to raise. If they did not hit that amount the parents had to pay it. They had some funds from the school allocated for the team. In the end it was slightly cheaper than playing for Exprees or 91 when you factor in all the extra money for traveling g etc. he absolutely loved it. He loved the school. But it’s not for everyone. Explore all options for your kid and guide them to what is best for them. Don’t compare your kid to anyone else Each kid is on their own path. Do what is right for yours.

Love hearing stories like this. And totally agree; find what works for your kid. Just don’t commit to a school just you can say you committed. So many kids make that short term four year decision to play lax which turns out to be the wrong lifetime decision. If I was to rank what my choices would be (yes only my opinion) if I was to take into account lax + academics I would rank it in this way:

High d1 (top 20 programs)
High D3 (top 15 programs)
MCLA d1
MClA D2
mid d1

The rest of the d2, mid-low d3 and low d1 are a crapshoot. It’s not to say people don’t do great academically and have great college careers and lives; I’m just saying I wouldn’t be committing to those schools when I have the above 5 choices.

What are the top 25 D1 programs?

It depends what you want out of it but for me a top 20 program is a combination of both good academics + good lax but that’s not everyone’s priority. Mind you that any kid who goes to any school and gets and education is good in my book. But my (just an opinion) top 20 dual threat academics + lax (with academics > lax in terms of weight)

1) Duke
2) yale
3) notre dame
4) hopkins
5) penn
6) cornell
7) virginia
8) Princeton
9) Michigan
10) gtown
11) UNC
12) Maryland
13) Harvard
14) Brown
15) Army
16) Navy
17) Rutgers
18) BU
19) Penn state
20 Syracuse

Honorable mention academic mention to Dartmouth and Colgate - terrible lax

Honorable lax mention to Denver

Just Outside the top 20: Richmond, lehigh, Ohio state, nova, Air Force

Lax is just one of those sports where the best lax schools are also the best academic schools. Not really the case in college football, basketball, hockey or baseball.

Solid list, I'd put Princeton top 5. They're ranked the number 1 university in the US and they have been stocking up on blue chip recruits. Don't be surprised if you see them do extremely well in the next several years (multiple final four appearances and possibly NCAA title games). Their 2023 freshman class is especially talented with about 5 players that could start as freshman

I would love to move Princeton up. Like Madalon as coach. They’ve underperformed lax wise which is why they are down at 8 but academically, I have them only behind MIT and Stanford (yup MCLA is a good option for your kids too) in my book. But in all honesty anything in the top 16 is splitting hairs. All amazing.

2020 Princeton looked like they had a strong chance to go deep in the NCAA playoffs and make a push for the natty. Too bad that season was cut short. 2021 looked promising for them too, unfortunately no season that year for the Ivies. They had a down season last year but I don’t expect that to be the norm over there based on their coaching and quality of recruits

Agreed. They are on the precipice. But the teams in front have had a better track record thus far so unfortunately potential doesn’t count. But maybe next year….

Well academics are a big deal with lacrosse because there is no future earnings to be made from it. Not from playing or coaching. Just think, most lacrosse parents will spend well over $40,000 on club lacrosse for about $4,000 in scholarship money. That’s an awful investment, bless you’re an owner of a club team.

It's really not a bad investment when you consider how competitive it's become to get into college. Kids with 4 gpas and 1400 SATs are being waitlisted or deferred at all those schools listed above. ACC, Big 10, Ivy, half of the Big 10 and the top 2 of the Big East have become a reach for all but the best students.

Agreed ...and that $40000 is the minimum (annual club fees only ) you're in for about 8-10k per year after travel expenses , training etc.....so we are talking about dumping close to 100k into a dead end . fool but hey everyone is doing it so evrifalla in line . Always hear people complain about the cost of things but no one complains to any club owner about their fees while they get rich

Stop with the waste of money. What are you going to do with your kid that costs no money. Sit around every weekend, prep for the SAT's and go on hikes? Love the outdoors and school is important but my kid likes to compete.

I would still say it’s not a prudent investment, somewhat akin to playing the lottery. Take all the high school club lax players, the amount getting into those top schools is extremely low so while it works for a chosen few, the majority don’t get into those schools. Looking at the list of those schools, I would say 13 of those, lax would be needed to get in. With 10-15 spots per college per year that’s only 130-185 spots. Finally yale into account, those schools you still need really darn good grades to get in (they ain’t taking 1200 SATs and 3.0) I would say that some of those players may get in regardless of lax. Take that number and divide by high school club lax and the percentages are still pretty low. They just seem a lot higher because social media only posts these commits.

But anyone who plays lax for the investment reason, I have a few stocks I would like to sell you. I am hoping the Marjority of us do it for the love of the game, to build better character and learn about life. But I have a feeling sports in general is getting away from that

Is that you, Bernie Sanders? Club owners are allowed "to get rich", just like you are. If you think you can do it better for less, go ahead...

No need to blame your personal failures on others. Work harder.

Take one of the "easiest" schools on that top 25 list above to get into, Lehigh. The sat range is 1340-1490 and the average GPA is 3.9. The "normal" non-athlete doesn't have much of a chance. Lacrosse is a good bet.

No it isn’t, your SAT score will need to be at least the lower range and your GPA will have to be at the level required. If you think otherwise you haven’t been there yet. And the scholarship money is peanuts.

Wrong. If you think all the lacrosse players in the ivies have met that school's lower range of the SAT scores you have no idea what you're talking about. Princeton is 1500-1580. That means if you scored a 1500, you're in the lowest quartile of the admissions class. There is NO way Princeton or any school can put together a championship team made only of kids who got over a 1500 on their SAT. You couldn't be more wrong.

I love it when I hear this BS....I know many kids who have gotten into top schools without playing a sport . Academics is still king . Go look at all of the of the better academic high schools and see wherr their kids are going . Some kids are part of the chess club with high grades and get in to the school of their choice . So get a clue and stop drinking lacrosse club kook aid

Not true. Depends on how many stars next to your name. Fact of the matter is, schools have to balance the GPA's across the team and their recruiting class. A 4.0 allows them to grab a 3.0. Your SAT scores arent relevant as the recruits havent even taken them yet. If a team has 8 recruits with 4.5 they can have at 2x 2.5. Seen it happen. Ivys def different but published GPA's and test ranges do not apply to the 10-12 recruits per college class. Again, money is dependent on stars but whatever, if lax gets you in to one of those listed schools with no test taken and a 3.0 Im happy to pay, especially if it is UNC which full price out of state is the same as if you got a scholarship to one of the other schools. Invest in your kid. Wouldnt make it the only angle but if it pays out it pays out in spades.

Leave the rankings to the pros. #3 on the bogus list above got spanked yesterday at Gtown Prep. ND might have lost to GP is there was a game 2.

I don't think you realize how competitive its become. I went through this with my older child who didn't play a sport. 1400 SAT and 3.9 GPA and got denied from Northeastern on Early Action. The population of the country went from 240 million approx in the mid 1990s when we all went to college to 330 million today. That's a 38% increase in students without any increase in the amount of universities. More people chasing the same spots leads to inflation of entry requirements. If you think your typical lax kid would be able to get into Lehigh, let alone an Ivy, without lax you're just not getting it. The kids who are getting into those schools have exceptional board scores, high GPAs with AP classes and ridiculous extra-curriculars, not to mention killer essays. Straight A's aren't enough. Maybe a certain percentage of lax kids would meet those requirements regardless, but that's a very small percentage. Lax remains one of the few ways a normal kid from the suburbs can gain entry into an elite institution.

Not a single 2025 commit on IL, other than the 2024's that committed and reclassed maybe, have taken the SAT's or ACT or will have to submit those scores EVER. If you are IL top 50 odds are, other than IVY, you are getting into those schools with a 3.0-3.5.

IL lost thrown to NLF,not apples to apples.

Im sorry, what “pros” are ranking schools based on academics + lax? I guess you didn’t bother to read the post but this was a ranking of BOTH academics AND lax. I don’t think IL or NCAA are taking into account academic rigor when they do their rankings. And this was clearly an opinion. But the irony is reading comprehension may be an issue for you which is why you only focused on wins and losses. But please share the lax ranking service that takes into account academic rigor.

And that being said, #3 ND winning a championship and their excellent academics moves them up to 3. But maybe next year will be different

I don’t disagree with you. I do realize how competitive it is now and much of it driven by test optional and suspect ranking devices. My point was that except for a very select few standouts, most people should not be doing lacrosse to get into the highest academic schools because the chances are slim. But that being said, lax never hurst as it builds teamwork, character, and strengthens resumes in general and definitely helps poor-average students punch above their weight class to get into schools they may not have ever gotten into but those students aren’t getting into the top 20 academic lax schools. In fact ive seen more of the opposite where a kid “punches down” choosing a lax commitment just to say they committed when they could have gotten into a much better school that has MCLA or no lax . But everyone has their own priorities.

True. You don’t usually take SATs until between your junior and senior year or during senior year so most if not all 2025s lax or no lax, have taken SATs as they are still taking PSATs. I would imagine with test optional most won’t need to except for schools that require it. 3.0 may be a stretch for most the top schools though with exception of a couple of slots.

Im sorry, what “pros” are ranking schools based on academics + lax? I guess you didn’t bother to read the post but this was a ranking of BOTH academics AND lax. I don’t think IL or NCAA are taking into account academic rigor when they do their rankings. And this was clearly an opinion. But the irony is reading comprehension may be an issue for you which is why you only focused on wins and losses. But please share the lax ranking service that takes into account academic rigor.

And that being said, #3 ND winning a championship and their excellent academics moves them up to 3. But maybe next year will be different[/quot

Certain you got your nerd head stuck in lots of toilets with wedgies.Go back to playing computer games.

I think there's a sense of punching down where smart lax kids choose a lower academic school just so they can say them committed to play D1 lacrosse, but I think that sense is based on an outdated assessment of what type of school a kid with a 4.0 GPA and 1400 SAT should be able to get into. In 1995, that kid was more than eligible for all ACC and Big 10 and most other schools outside of the Ivies Today that same kid is reaching to get into Tier 3 schools. So are they really punching down, or do we need to readjust our understanding of the reality of college admissions in the 20s? Go onto the boards where hopeful students are discussing admission to Northeastern. You'd be shocked to see the stats of kids who aren't making it. Worse, 10 years from now the amount of commits from Long Island to D1 schools will be halved as the game grows across the country and competition for the already limited spots available will increase. At some point in the not to distant future the Long Island lacrosse commit will be almost as rare as the soccer or baseball commit.

College programs with championships Cuse 11, Hop 9, UVA 7, PU 6, UNC 5, UMD 4, CU 3, Duke 3, Denver 1, Yale 1, ND 1

Hahahaha. Nerd head? Wedgies? darn we just traveled back to high school with this Biff Tannen. Man, what time capsule did they dig you out of. Feel sorry for your kid cuz the apple prolly don’t fall far from this pathetic tree.

Talkin about now. Where would be the best combination of school and lax today. Respect Syracuse history but I wouldn’t be choosing them today over the other schools. Good school but not as good as the ones above it academically. Cowboys have won the most NFC super bowls but nobody ain’t crowning them as the best for decades.

Don’t disagree with all this. The college applications arms race is getting out of hand. I what were once target and safety schools are becoming reach schools. But when I say punching down, I’m thinking about people commuting to low d1 schools when they can go to a high d3 or people committing to a low d1 or d2 or d3 schools for the sake of committing when they could go to an amazing MCLA school. But in the end, any kid that gets into any school is a good thing even if they punched down just to say they committed. Everyone has their own priorities

Yes. I would agree. Citing past championships is not an indicator of current results and top recruiting. It definitely helps and there is not shortage of kids who want to go to Syracuse and Hopkins as they are great destinations but their relevance as of late has been muted.

You suffer from recency bias. And that is totally normal from a psychological basis, particularly before your first or only has played college ball. Before our first played college, thought in a naive sense like you are. Making rushed judgements, going off recent scores or the prior season, it is just human nature. Everyone is a rookie once right so do not feel badly here. Everyone needs a coach and happy to be that for you. My fellow JETS fans can really understand what is being said right, it helps having a CHIEFS friend if you get the analogy. When you get a greater sense of college dynamics, how it is played, whether a coaching staff is any good, you start to look at the bigger picture better. In a way, you will be able to see the forest through the trees.

Of course I suffer from recency bias. This is where I want my kid to go “now”. For academics + lax? I would choose duke, yale and ND any day and 10 times over as opposed to Syracuse (I’ll admit Hopkins wouldn’t be a bad landing place). heck yeah I have recency bias. That’s the whole point of the post. Who has the best combination of academics + lax and where do I want to send my kid TODAY, not “all time”. You act like recency bias is a bad thing in this case. I’m going to go out on a limb snd say duke, yale and ND coaching are “pretty good”

And to continue your football analogy and we look at “ownership” as the “academic” component and football performance as the “lax” component , still no one is picking the jets because they are bad at both. But I would definitely choose the chiefs because their “recent” success as well as their standout ownership makes my recency bias picking them as the team to play for now not the patients or cowboys or Steelers who have the most titles (though those miners are looking darn good)

And to be honest, if we are picking “all time” I still wouldn’t put Syracuse at the top. Their academics, albeit very good, are not as good as the schools at the top. With your recency bias argument you are completely leaving out the academic component. If you go back and look at the original post the rankings also take into account academics. If I’m not mistaken, yale, ND and duke were all pretty good academically recently and in the past.

Just not sure what you are trying to state but I welcome the conversation.

Where did this guy come from? What’s wrong laddie, detest having normal lax conversations? Are the words too big for you? I guess you would rather talk about holdback dads, how great it is to be an Outlaw, how the Rebels will win everything, how notIntelligent the WS is, Matt Chandon stinks and Team 91 is terrible because that’s what usually is on these forums. You probably own a truck that you don’t know how to drive with the calvin and Hobbes pissing sticker and balls hanging from the undercarriage, scream at officials from the sideline and yell wheels at your kid.

So to dense it down to your level, what a stunad.