BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2029-6th Grade Fall 2022/Summer 2023

Correct that is their style and always has been with the boys as well. They say they "play up " but they play against horrible B teams that any grade level can beat then lose to teams their own age group . Standard 91 practice

Monster 29 is 2-7 what a joke

Definitely relevant when figuring out where 91 ranks against LI teams. However, Monster is pretty good. Just faced some sick competition like Eaglesticks and Friedman.

Maryland jumping into the conversation... Team 91 isn't even on the radar of the Maryland teams, if that matters. Outside of Heros and M&D, the next best clubs in the 2029 division is YJ Friedman and Eaglestix... there is a decent drop off below those 4 teams. Steps CA is ranked 5 with two loses to Urban Elite from Colorado who just got beat pretty good by M&D at a St. James event a few weeks back.

Ha! Thats friedman talking not Maryland! See you guys in the spring

This doesn’t really need to be the voice of Friedmann nor Maryland. The rankings say this on their own. Even if it was Friedmann, is 91 really in a position to spit back [Censored]? That’s laughable. 140ish ranked teams and no 91 Spallina in sight. 91 B team is deep down on the list, however. Playing through the fall without being ranked must be considered a failure for the 91 program. I can’t imagine it’s a selling point.

Weird to fire [Censored] talk at who you presume is the #3 ranked team…from the spectators’ sideline.

91 is a team that will sit between 10-20. Won't beat the top 5-6 teams, but will compete 7-20.

and then will lose half their roster in two years when kids realize 91s recruiting history

I think 91 Roar is pretty good. However, I don't see the math supporting that the current ranking system can put them in the top 20. There's too much ground to make up to rank among some of those top 20 teams that have records such as 15-0. Dodging ranked competition in the fall did these girls a disservice. There's going to need to be a "Where did these girls come from" moment in the rankings for this top 20 thing to be a reality. And I'm not sure that their current patterns support that.

Losing to the 9th placed team, Monster Elite Purple, while the top 10 and beyond have beaten them...that's gonna be hard to recover from in the rankings.

In the top ten, there are two "flukes" or teams that don't belong there, but the algorithm has them there for now. That's STEPS and NXT Black.

91's competitors so far average out to a rating of 92.6 and their performance against them is mixed. They've lost to Monster Elite that basically the whole leaderboard has beaten. And they're short on ranked games. Game six for them needs to be a win against a high rated team if they expect to see the top 20. And that will probably place them somewhere around #13. Their record, level of competition, and goal differential would fall somewhere between the 12 and 13th place team. If they lose their game six, they sink into something close to 25th place. Of course, these are just projections.

I think you could have seen them in the Fall at Queen of Long Island. Now you need them more than they need you. Wonder if they'll give you the time of day.

If you click on Moster Elite, then click on Team 91 Uproar, you can see they have 5 games played, a record of 3-2 and a rating of 95.80. IF they were ranked with those 5 games, they would be 5th behind M&D who is 4th with a 96.47. With that said, Urban Elite would be second, ahead of LI Friedman and Eagles Stix but they only played 5 games (with a 97.57). Interestingly they didn't report their scores from their St. James play day in Virginia where M&D beat them 11-6. My guess is that would have helped M&D and hurt Urban. Shaking up the top 5 and thus pushing Team 91 down, again depending on who they played for game 6 and the result.

Point being, there is a reason they require 6 games before ranking teams. Not sure where Team 91 would fall but again, Heros, M&D, Coppermine, MDU, etc. don't really look at them the same as they do LI Friedman who consistently plays top level competition and plays close or wins. Lastly, fall is such a small sample size. Come spring/summer these rankings will flush out. I don't see much change in the top 4 teams other than movement among them but 5-10 will be interesting and some teams there now may find themselves drop out of the top 10 or even 20 come summer.

Team 91 ranking profile;

https://www.USCL.com/team_info.php?y=2022&t=506930

This is the problem with rankings in the fall because there is such a small sample. Team 91 would have had 6 games to rank but due to weather the tournament schedule at Mid Atlantic was changed. So where do they get placed in the ranking is just an educated guess. I would say that they are at least top 10 and at worst (based on ranking points w/ a loss in the sixth game) 15 or so. It is like college football with TCU being ranked 3rd while USC is 4th and THE Ohio state is 5th (with a tougher schedule) and none of these teams have played each other.

What we do know that 91 is 3-0-1 "lifetime" against YJA. 2-0 Spring Queen of the Island 2021, tied at Queen of the Island 2022, win at Lax for the Cure summer 2022.
If you have to rank 2029 LI girls

1a. 91 (beat YJA again, then true number 1)
1b. YJA due to beating everyone on the island besides 91, can be true 1 with a win against 91

3a.top guns these two teams tied each other
3b. tradition

5a Jesters have competed against the top Maryland teams but have gotten soundly beat
5b YJB

Havent seen Legacy 29 off the island along with Lax On.

Those are false claims against YJ Friedman....keep dreaming

Also, Friedman can beat Maryland teams and 91 can not do stop the lies you're embarrassing yourself

Respectfully, your projections on "who should be ranked where" don't really line up with the real algorithm used for ranking and rating these teams. You should check out the USCL site where it's explained fully. The number you are most ignoring the significance of is the SCHED number.

The team "ratings" change significantly after teams reach their sixth ranked games. The number you see for 91 Roar there is not current. What is current, is taking the "sched" number for each of the competition they played (the strength of each team) and averaging it out to the number I gave you, 92.6. That's on the low end of the top 12 teams in terms of competition level. Their record in the five ranked games is also awful in comparison to the leading teams. Combine the two, and their ranking and rating will not be near what you have said. The only thing they have going for them is a high goal differential when they do win. But like I said, they're a good team. They're just doing a disservice to themselves by not playing in ranked tournaments in the fall. Urban Elite is irrelevant and will remain irrelevant unless they own a private jet. Their average competition is an 89, essentially making them equivalent to a B team. This actually matters in the rankings/ratings. Their record is good, but their frequency of play against high ranking teams makes them irrelevant. You'll see. Their rating of 97.57 will be adjusted after game six, as well- though they are meeting their expected goal differentials against competitors which is sorta noteworthy if we're going to even bother talking about a California team.

This reply is LOADED with misinformation. But it's written so poorly that it's hard for anyone to even make sense of it.
Here's one piece of misinformation we can focus on; the rest makes my head spin:
91 did not beat Yellow Jackets A in Queen of Long Island 2022. 91 did not come to that event. Those two teams have not faced each other four times.

Your numbering/ranking system is nonsensical. It is not grounded in reality or the English language.

Mic Drop! And my guess is they won't be present in the Cantiague tournament in March (again) which is technically the winter. Now 91 needs high ranking competition to wind up on the ranking list, wonder if anyone's gonna bother giving them the time of day. Not much motivation to play an unranked team.

I wish this forum had the ability to add pictures because maybe that is the only way you would understand. Maybe read the post again but this time slower or have your daughter help you.
No one said that 91 beat YJA at Queen of the Island 2022. They tied in the spring 2022. 91 did not enter the fall 2022 Queen of the island.
These two teams have faced each other 4 times. You must be new to the team and drank the YJ kool-aide. It’s ok, keep adding new girls, it doesn’t matter because the results will be the same for your team.

Rankings at 11 year’s old is ridiculous. And to base your child’s team off of it at such a young age is just as absurd.

Not entirely accurate, once LIJ Friedman played their 6th game, they slotted right where their ranking had them after 5 games. Urban Elite beat Steps CA twice. Why is STEPS CA 5th, because of their two close games to UE who has a 97 rating. Sure that 6th game matters, but Team 91 would most likely still be a top 10 team.

However, as was said, small sample size. So this will all change come spring and summer and I would guess LIJ is the only team in the top 5.

No it’s not! Look at all the fun we are having with the ranking!

I'm guessing your kids team is outside the top 100?

fact 1 91 is 3-0-1 vs YJ Frideman 2-0 in Spring 21 QOI, 1-0 in june lax for the cure and a tie in 2022 QOI (QOI is an abbreviation for Queen of Island fyi)
fact 2 91 is 3-0 vs GC Tradition. Won 2021 spring QOI, 2022 spring QOI, and 2022 summer Grind in PA
fact 3 91 is 2-0 vs Top Guns Won 2021 spring QOI and 2021 summer NXT

You're entitled to your own opinion but your not entitled to your own facts . Team 91 is irrelevant, deal with it . Get a refund

Pictures might have been your best option. I agree that your comments are less than coherent. To attempt to comprehend that mess of a post is next to impossible. Your figures are also incorrect, buddy. And your ranking is silly. The girls have already been ranked without you inserting your theories. Their rankings are posted on USCL. To try to reassemble and rearrange a list based on conjecture is a silly and pathetic way to try to put your kid’s team on a list where they aren’t. Scroll back a few posts and the LI girls rankings already been assembled based on their REAL ratings.

Fact. They’re not ranked this year and the things you’re clinging to are avoiding the relevant details. You’re selectively picking statistics.

91 is messing around against 28 teams rated in the 70’s on the same day that their 2029 A team counterparts are competing in Delaware. 91 is nowhere to be seen at this year’s Fall Queen of Long Island. Nowhere to be seen at Lax for the Cure this fall. Their current ranked game record is winning one more game than they’ve lost. There’s no bragging rights for you here this year. What’s this all about? Trying to say you’re better than Friedmann? Go play him and stop trying to boast of how good you once were.

Considering the top 20 you see on the USCL website don't change much through high school, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea to consider ranking when "basing your child's team off of it." What does that mean by the way? "Choosing" your team? If you're "choosing" or "trying out" for a team at this point...you're pretty far behind the curve. Perhaps consider PAL if ranking and rating don't matter? As another guy put it here, there are plenty of places to play the width of the field for participation trophies. Travel ain't it.

Rankings updated:
As of 12/2/22
This is how the Long Island Teams rank among the country.

3- Yellow Jackets A Friedman
10- Top Guns A Black
12- Tradition
30- Yellow Jackets B Duswalt
34- Yellow Jackets B Nassau- Mills
45- LI Jesters Black
51- Team 91 B Thunder
97- FLG Blue Devils
102- LI Jesters Pink
106- Top Guns B Purple
111- Lady Ballers
118- Lax on Elite
124- Ohana

Couldn't agree more. "Absurd" is being polite.

There must be a shop in Long Island that makes trophies. Save your team the expense of a trip down to Maryland in the Spring and buy your team some cute little Long Island shaped participation trophies instead. You'd be doing us all a favor in MD. Meeting the 10 goal expected differential against low ranking teams is really annoying. Really only want to play Freidman, Tradition, and Top Guns. The rest of you stay home and figure out what to "base your team on" other than performance against competition. 91 will stay behind and play you, too. Wouldn't be the first time.

It’s just ridiculous. How did it get like this? All this time and money. Lacrosse is a dead end sport. It’s not like baseball and football where you go on to play professional and make millions. I guess at least now you can play at some sort of “professional” level, but having it as a career is extremely rare. It just doesn’t make sense. Find a team that your daughter has FUN on and is improving her own skills. When she’s older and knows where she wants to go to college go to some prospect camps. Half these girls on these top teams on Long Island don’t even belong on them, they’re just dollar signs.

Wow, there are actually a few rational parents on this thread. You asked "how did it get like this?", it's because of the wacko parents who don't see the big picture like you do.

What I always find interesting is how other people care about how people spend their money. Maybe, these teams the girls "don't belong on" are the teams the girls are having fun and improving, like you suggested. I understand not everyone can or will see the value in playing club but, you show your true colors when you try and bring others down because you won't or can't....

It's possible to care about performance and ranking among peers without seeing a professional career at the end of the tunnel... at any age. Some people like high level competition- especially once you consider the time and money that goes into travel ball.

Lacrosse may be a "dead end" by your definition, but it's not dead by the definition of a lot of people. Plenty of college commits have doors open that generally wouldn't have been available if it hadn't been for their dedication to lacrosse. But again, nobody is necessarily talking about potential for the future except for the "ranking girls is ridiculous" crew on here. It's like words are being put into the mouths of the competitive folks here. "Why do you like ranking girls? Because you have delusions of grandeur for the future?" Not necessarily. We just like setting observable goals, striving for them, and accomplishing them.

There's nothing saying that the top tier teams on the ranking list don't "have fun" or experience "improvement." And I can guarantee that showing up as #1-10 in the country probably makes things even more fun.

Further, postponing hard work and competition isn't going to get you any closer to "college" (but again, your focus, not mine). If you're not on one of these top-tier teams, there's no college worth looking at that's going to treat you seriously. And avoiding competition at this age isn't going to get you any closer to those top-tier teams. You think Hero's Green is accepting walk-ons in seventh grade from girls that don't already have a presence on an aggressive team? No shot.

If half of the girls on the top teams "don't belong there," then who does? Your kid who's playing fiddlesticks in the pool all summer? Criticizing the evaluation of teams by rank and then blindly criticizing the ability of the players on those teams is an absolute contradiction.

I would venture to say that there are also a few bitter parents on this thread. Those who are accustom to being ranked among the best and who now don't show up anywhere in the rankings and "backpedal." "Come on guys, can't we just play for fun." Long Island, for instance, is typically a dominant force on these rankings. Now they have three teams in the top 29 and the fourth best team is a B team? We all have a different "big picture," and like another respondent said, the goals you have as the family of a low-ranked team can also be achieved in a highly- ranked team but with the added bonus of winning against high level competition. You think Friedman and Goettelmann aren't having fun?

It's funny because when a team is not ranked it's all of a sudden " rankings are ridiculous". But as soon as a team hits the top 10 you'll see parents boasting about it and clubs posting it on their Instagram pages lol....very bitter indeed

My daughter is on one of those "top 10" teams and I still think it's "ridiculous" we are ranking 6th graders.

As a coach I think the rankings are fine. Along with teaching the game, it gives a team the motivation to play harder and improve by beating teams ranked better than you. You can use it in a pre game speech to amp up your team. The kids eat it up! Especially if they win. Also it improves their competitive nature and how to respond and grow as a "team". It's all fun.

Oh yeah? Which one?

It's irrelevant who he/her daughter plays for.