BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

Right- that is the root of this issue the town/school vs club relationship is disfunctional. Sachem tells their kids no club after 6th grade... Club just makes kids better by raising the competition level - that is a fact. I wish all you policy makers can find a way to coexist, instead of placing an ultimatum on a kid. And those of you that do place ultimatums and twist the justification in your minds - should really reconsider and embrace all the opportunity that is available to our kids. Most kids play both now - and instead of parents feeling awkward by doing what's best for their child - work with us for those that want our kids playing club and give good advice. Maybe have a relationship with a club and find a win-win solution. Because this isn't going away and this is a good debate to have - since both sides have merits.

As per every coach? Who are you, you have the ear of every college coach? Go back to your glory days and leave the rest of us alone. you are a simply, stupid person, but its not your fault, your mommy didnt raise you to think for yourself...

the coaches do play the best players. Yes it is true that there are very good players that do not get alot of playing time, but the coaches are playing the best of the best. not sure why you make such a comment. As far as being a 9th or 10the grader (not favored) what does that mean? he doesn't get playing time? because there are better players ahead of him?
1. the SUMMER wm program green/gold EVERYONE plays. You will get exposure at tourneys.
2. Play for a strong club team...are you already on this strong club team? if not, how do you know you would make it? what role/position would you play? my guess is that if you are not "favored" on your little town squad, how confident are you that things would be different on a strong club team that pulls from all of LI?

First of all, my post was trying to be positive. You have a lot of anger and clearly don't even want to see both point of views. Calling me misinformed demonstrates that. Please read objectively.

Let's start with your first argument about multi level. Maybe you should talk to some of the WM 2012 Summer Green Team parents about how when WM got on the field to play as rising seniors even though there were younger players, there were instances when coaches walked away assuming that if a senior was that good he would have been committed already. Some of these coaches were unaware that mixed grades were playing. This was a big disadvantage for rising juniors. This is a fact and a valid concern. Hopefully, this was rectified for the players this summer.

Of course, coaches look for hustle and lacrosse IQ. You offered no new insight there. Coaches also look at the behavior of the player on and off the field as well as their parents' behavior. This holds true for both WM and club.

Of course, playing for WM during the school season holds weight with college coaches. WM has a long history of great lacrosse. Not sure it holds as much weight during the summer. You should ask them that. Some coaches want to know if you can mesh well with players from other towns and not just the ones that you have played PAL with since 2nd grade. After all, you are not taking your entire HS team to college with you.

As far as your point of wanting my son to play on a "stacked" team, I never said that. I think it is a benefit for my son to play in more competitive tournaments as does he, so he can be amongst some of the most competitive players in his age group. This shows us where he falls and what he needs to work on. It helps raise his level of play. It's good for him to learn from players that he does not play with all the time and be inspired by them. This does not mean he doesn't look up to his school teammates because he has respect for them too. This also does not mean that he is a "prima donna" as you put it. If you knew my son at all, you would know that he is a very unselfish player. I guess name calling and insulting a young teen makes you feel better and somehow makes you think your point is valid.

As far as the "club scene" that you negatively refer too, he is on the #1 team since you brought it up. That doesn't mean that the B Teams do not have talent which I am sure you are aware of since they have beaten 3V's A team on many occasion including Patriots Elite's team as well.

Yes, playing club does cost more $, but probably not as much $ as you would think. You get what you pay for. It's probably comparable to all the $ WM kids pay for private lessons and the clinics they try to take discretely after the parents proclaim that we have the best coaches anywhere and no need to go anywhere else. In years to come if my son wants to play college lacrosse and if he has the talent and the grades, I have no doubt that my son's club coaches and school coaches will do whatever they can to help him get recruited whether it be D1, D2, or D3.

All these boys will be playing school lacrosse together. It's important that we respect each other and the different decisions parents made for their sons. In all situations, everyone has their child's best interest in mind. There are just different avenues for helping your child improve his lacrosse skills. We never lost sight of playing for a WM program. We live in the district first for it's reputation for a great education, it's a wonderful community to raise a family and it certainly helps that my children love lacrosse in a district that excels at the sport.

I have faith that our HS coach would never hold it against an athlete based on where he decided to play during the off season. Each player needs to be evaluated each season based on school tryouts. Because then surely it would be a conflict of interest if WM's coach cut or didn't play a deserving athlete due to that athlete not contributing to his summer salary.

100% ????
Get real with that.
Upperclassmen playing behind 9th & 10th graders? I think you do not have a realistic view of your son's ability with respect to recruiting. If your 18 year old has a 14/15 year old playing ahead of him in Suffolk Division 1, not sure what college level lax your son has expectations of. This is not a knock of your son, but if your son played on the WM summer teams the past few years, he was given equal playing time & played with all the players from his position many college coaches watching....phones not ringing? He may just not be good enough. If he gave it his best, so be it, thats all you can ask...There are plenty of great schools that play lacrosse
and if you son plays WM varsity, there are spots for him, just do your homework & ask your HS coach is opinion.

Get real?

you keep attacking parents and kids saying that their kid is not good enough. I have only questioned the logic of blindly following what a few people say we should do.

Are you a coach? did you coach your son? are you one of the coaches who knows every kids potential? did you always get it right?

I have heard the term "Step up" used by some, I will say that in order to "Step Up" a player needs to be given the opportunity.

At a place like WM, there are many good players, the coaches do their best but they do not get it right all of the time.

What makes you so sure that this new system is in the best interest of the players? In a previous post I said that I am unsure what to do. Why do you think that WM has the only way to hep a player become stronger.

Garden City, Chamidade and St Anthony's have all been very successful during the HS season and the kids do not all play together in the summer.

I am amazed at some who do not question what is being pushed upon them by a few.

By the way, If the HS coaches do not think your kid is one of the better players, don't you think that you should change what you have been doing in order to change the result?

If you can play with better players and have a different coach do you not think that you might be able to improve?

People keep talking about College Recruiting, how about trying to improve so you can be one of the top kid at WM.

Do you think the only way to become a stronger player is to follow what the WM people say you should do?


There is no 1 way to improve, there are many. No one is being "pushed" into this. It has been proven that this system is very successful here. Its about a program. That being said, you can't keep everyone happy. The more success a program has, the more kids it attracts. Still a #'s game, only so many can play. No program, HS or club gets it right all the time, but if you look at programs like WM, SW, WI. etc. they are consistantly strong. So their programs are doing things right. Can you always find a player(s) that feel that they got screwed? absolutely
but again, its about a program not an individual. As far as becoming a stronger player, I guess you need to know what your kid needs to improve on...is it size,speed,footwork etc.Will playing on a club team going to improve that? not sure. You should not be guessing as to why your kid is not getting the playing time that you desire...your kid should be asking his HS coach, what do I have to improve on? if you haven't done that... do it. Again, be prepared for the answer. Looking at your post, you wont be happy until you find a coach/team that will play your son. Last, like that has been posted earlier, if you are considering playing Summer WM or going to a club, everyone plays on the WM summer team. You mentioned, stepup...every kid gets looked at in detail over a long period of time...every kid has multiple chances to step-up, some take advantage some do not... as far as this summer program goes stop insinuating that kids get overlooked they ALL play.

100% ????
Get real with that.
Upperclassmen playing behind 9th & 10th graders? I think you do not have a realistic view of your son's ability with respect to recruiting. If your 18 year old has a 14/15 year old playing ahead of him in Suffolk Division 1, not sure what college level lax your son has expectations of. This is not a knock of your son, but if your son played on the WM summer teams the past few years, he was given equal playing time & played with all the players from his position many college coaches watching....phones not ringing? He may just not be good enough. If he gave it his best, so be it, thats all you can ask...There are plenty of great schools that play lacrosse
and if you son plays WM varsity, there are spots for him, just do your homework & ask your HS coach is opinion.

Get real?

you keep attacking parents and kids saying that their kid is not good enough. I have only questioned the logic of blindly following what a few people say we should do.

Are you a coach? did you coach your son? are you one of the coaches who knows every kids potential? did you always get it right?

I have heard the term "Step up" used by some, I will say that in order to "Step Up" a player needs to be given the opportunity.

At a place like WM, there are many good players, the coaches do their best but they do not get it right all of the time.

What makes you so sure that this new system is in the best interest of the players? In a previous post I said that I am unsure what to do. Why do you think that WM has the only way to hep a player become stronger.

Garden City, Chamidade and St Anthony's have all been very successful during the HS season and the kids do not all play together in the summer.

I am amazed at some who do not question what is being pushed upon them by a few.

By the way, If the HS coaches do not think your kid is one of the better players, don't you think that you should change what you have been doing in order to change the result?

If you can play with better players and have a different coach do you not think that you might be able to improve?

People keep talking about College Recruiting, how about trying to improve so you can be one of the top kid at WM.

Do you think the only way to become a stronger player is to follow what the WM people say you should do?





Finally - somebody that gets it. There is no magic formula for success. But the point is these coaches should coach summer, for variety of reasons. And if money is one of those reasons - oh well - they have that right. The coaches can not use their influence to force march kids into the summer program. That's the conflict - saying you must play with me is wrong. There is a better way to manage the club/school/town player.

Bottom line - NO school team coaches should be allowed to coach pay to play summer teams in any sport, it's an inherent conflict of interest by any standard! The AD's of these schools need to step up and end this practice asap

high rate of commitments? that is a joke....these club teams are money making machines plain & simple. how do you know how a player was really recruited? Expres will calim any kid that played in their program...whether it be 4th grade, 1 yr. 2 yrs. whatever...if the player was a St. A's kid....playing for St. A's team didn't get him recruited? i find it hard to believe that many of these impressive commitments werent do to the HS that a kid played at...look at the Chaminade & St. A's
alone, 2 super hs lax teams in the COUNTRY...they didnt have a
play on these kids recruiting? come'on open your eyes. Hats off to express 91 etc they are marketing themselves well.

That's why people want to play on those teams. Forget recruiting, it's raising the child's skills. With good coaching and playing with better players. Summer town/school teams don't have that fully. Some more than others, but not like a 91 or Express.

The St Anthony's coaches have been "strong arming" their players into the Express club for years and they haven't taken any heat. Why is that ok? Hint: It's not ok...

Really.. That is not the truth at all. Those teams are well established before they even get to the HS level.


Not public school

The St Anthony's coaches have been "strong arming" their players into the Express club for years and they haven't taken any heat. Why is that ok? Hint: It's not ok...


Not public school

I am express parent on 2018 terps team. My son is a starter and has not once been told he should go to St A or Cham...

Maybe the pressure starts this year???

This entire chain is pretty well played out. The schools that strong arm kids are clearly wrong, whether or not they have a winning program, whether or not their coaches are strong, whether or not ever kid gets a fair shot to play, whether or not the kid is good enough to play...

Schools should not be in the business of dictating what kids do when the school sport season (lax, baseball, football, soccer...)is not in session. THis is just a cash grab by the school coaches and I am shocked that the school districts stand for it...

Not about whinny parents, and yes, there are many of those in the lax world.

I am express parent on 2018 terps team. My son is a starter and has not once been told he should go to St A or Cham...

Maybe the pressure starts this year???

This entire chain is pretty well played out. The schools that strong arm kids are clearly wrong, whether or not they have a winning program, whether or not their coaches are strong, whether or not ever kid gets a fair shot to play, whether or not the kid is good enough to play...

Schools should not be in the business of dictating what kids do when the school sport season (lax, baseball, football, soccer...)is not in session. THis is just a cash grab by the school coaches and I am shocked that the school districts stand for it...

Not about whinny parents, and yes, there are many of those in the lax world.

Not true, I know several players that graduated last year that played for St. Anthony's that were on other travel teams instead of express.

The St Anthony's coaches have been "strong arming" their players into the Express club for years and they haven't taken any heat. Why is that ok? Hint: It's not ok...


Not public school

I would think the pressure comes when your child is in St. A or Cham to play with Express in the summer. I'm sure there are some who don't play with them but, most will.

Because their's pressure to do so.

There is pressure to switch your faith as well.... Really?

Makes absolutely no difference if its a private or public school. Pressure is pressure regardless of how a school is funded with tax dollars or private tuition. It's wrong both ways.

I just went through the town web sits on the left. GC states at the youth level they have a A/B/C tier system. For 5th and 6th grade. Love the concept. but I can see the B team in another town be stronger if the kids want to explore outside travel teams.

What does GC ask of its 7-11th graders?

Here is a great example of how a coach works with a local club and produce a win-win. This is a recent quote from the Comsewogue Varsity coach "Mitchell said the success on the varsity level is due in great part to the strong youth program. "It's having a great youth league, which is where it all starts, and I'm definitely the recipient of a lot of people's hard work," Mitchell said. "A lot of my kids play in the summer league. Mike (Gongas) at Team Long Island does a great job and really prepares our kids. They get a lot of playing time over the summer and there's always a spot on the summer league roster regardless of the player's talent
level." Imagine that... a club and school collaborating.


True, and team LI welcomes kids from any program. They make minimal profit. Last year the cost was 800$ Their u17 team won three major tournaments and many boys have nice D1 commitments.

I think that the majority of players on TLI's U-17 team were from Comesewuage.......wasn't Mike Gongas involved with coaching with the high school there? Must be nice, and you are correct, working with a club team benefits the high school, especially working with a club like TLI