BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

Another person missing the point...not about one kid, about a system where HS coaches are strong arming all kids in their disctrict to either play (and Pay) for their travel team or forget about playing HS lax...

Come on people, you don't see this as a major conflict? HS coaches should be banned from running clinics and teams in the sprots they coach at the HS level.

Unlike college coaches, most LI public HS coaches are not professional coaches, they are teachers that coach for the extra cash. They teach bio and math and spanish and gym, they dont get their jobs because they are great coaches in any sport, they get their jobs because they can teach bio and math...

They are using their positions of power to force people to pay them. Plain and simple, conflict of interest.

There are 54 D1, 30 D2 men's college lacrosse teams that offer scholarships. I believe the number of scholarships per D1 team is 16.9. As a college coach you can chop up that 16.9 to full, half, quarter scholarships. Take away Ivy but they have creative financial aide. If on average there are 35 players per D1 program that's approximately 1800 D 1 players covering 4-5 graduation years out of the huge numbers playing in this country. If a coach were to get real creative with his scholarships and give out 1/2 to everyone on his team that's only 1728 scholarships per cycle of players. It's a number that is always in flux based on what he needs to do.

Odds are parents your child is not going to get a scholarship there are over 500,000 registered youth lacrosse players and the number is growing year to year. Don't get so caught up in this craziness. Let your kid have a great experience with his friends and teammates allowing him to just be a kid.

I thought it was only 13 scholarships per D1 mens team?

It's 12.6 scholarships for D1. Also they normally carry a roster of 40-45. Every player expects to get something because being a D1 athlete is like a full time job. Many of the kids on the roster won't even see the field. The best kids may get a little more than half. Full rides simply don't happen. Actually they can but it would be for an exceptional player going to an average school. A tradeoff. Most kids would not go for that. A really good player going to a really good school can expect a quarter to half (if they are really lucky). The money positions, where a little more money is offered are goalie, lefty attack and face off. Your kid can get a scholarship, don't let anyone tell them they can't! But, they need to want it, not you, and it takes talent, self-motivated hard work, and a little luck. Getting onto a good club team can help especially if your HS coach isn't plying you. The other problem is that great HS programs usually don't play even the good kids to much until they're juniors and seniors. This is a problem because the spots are scarce by then. One more thing, check out the roster of any good D1 program, you will see that about 80% of the kids are from prep schools. The rich spoiled brats are taking most of the spots from regular kids, even though public schools make up the bulk of youth lax players. Not that they don't deserve it, but they have been carefully groomed and manipulated from an early age, putting all the regular kids at an even bigger disadvantage when it comes recruting. This is partly because many of them are holdbacks, but also because they are at all the best camps/clinics/trainers/tournaments. Seems like a no-win situation where the rich get richer, and the poor.... but for the kids who make it, it's the best feeling in the world. Good luck to everyone on this journey!If the kid has talent, most likely, he will be noticed!

its not about winning championships? lax is a team sport, correct? are you saying its all about getting little johnny recruited? if so, your in the wrong sport. i think too many parents do not care how their hs team does during the season & if johnny gets his 4 goals a game he gunna get recruited...yea for jihnny!!! some teammate he is.

For many parents, especially those whose kid excels, it does become about recruiting. That's just the way it is. Yes it is a team sport, later Johnny can thank his mediocre team mates for helping him get into/help pay for a great college, by making him stand out. Hopefully they will remain friends ! Everyone can't be a superstar, but it is nice to know you helped someone get there too!

its not about winning championships? lax is a team sport, correct? are you saying its all about getting little johnny recruited? if so, your in the wrong sport. i think too many parents do not care how their hs team does during the season & if johnny gets his 4 goals a game he gunna get recruited...yea for jihnny!!! some teammate he is.

The off season should be about helping all players improve. The HS should be about winning but in the off season kids should not be restricted.

WM has been a dominant team for the better part of 40 years, what they do in a few summer tournaments has not been the reason for their dominance.

What takes place in three village is wrong.

The HS coaches and the three village board coerce and bully families into playing only for three v / WM even when it is not in the best interest of the player.

At a Town Hall Meeting the HS coaches and three village board members stood up and told the community "We have the best coaches here in three village, there is no need to go anywhere else".

Do you know how many three village board members send their kids to private lessons and clinics that they do not tell the rest of the team or league about?

If the best coaches are in three village why send them to an outside clinic?

I do not have an issue with the HS coach wanting to work with his players in the off season but the way it is being done at WM is wrong.

If money is changing hands it is a major conflict of interest.

If there is an implied threat it is wrong.

If it is not in the best interest of the player it is wrong.

Winning at the HS should be a priority for the HS coach but what they do in the off season could be altered in order to better prepare for the Varsity season.

Limited practice and five meaningless tournaments is not he best way to prepare for the Varsity Season.

The off season should be about helping all players improve. The HS should be about winning but in the off season kids should not be restricted.

WM has been a dominant team for the better part of 40 years, what they do in a few summer tournaments has not been the reason for their dominance.

What takes place in three village is wrong.

The HS coaches and the three village board coerce and bully families into playing only for three v / WM even when it is not in the best interest of the player.

At a Town Hall Meeting the HS coaches and three village board members stood up and told the community "We have the best coaches here in three village, there is no need to go anywhere else".

Do you know how many three village board members send their kids to private lessons and clinics that they do not tell the rest of the team or league about?

If the best coaches are in three village why send them to an outside clinic?

I do not have an issue with the HS coach wanting to work with his players in the off season but the way it is being done at WM is wrong.

If money is changing hands it is a major conflict of interest.

If there is an implied threat it is wrong.

If it is not in the best interest of the player it is wrong.

Winning at the HS should be a priority for the HS coach but what they do in the off season could be altered in order to better prepare for the Varsity season.

Limited practice and five meaningless tournaments is not he best way to prepare for the Varsity Season.

The off season should be about helping all players improve. The HS should be about winning but in the off season kids should not be restricted.

WM has been a dominant team for the better part of 40 years, what they do in a few summer tournaments has not been the reason for their dominance.

What takes place in three village is wrong.

The HS coaches and the three village board coerce and bully families into playing only for three v / WM even when it is not in the best interest of the player.

At a Town Hall Meeting the HS coaches and three village board members stood up and told the community "We have the best coaches here in three village, there is no need to go anywhere else".

Do you know how many three village board members send their kids to private lessons and clinics that they do not tell the rest of the team or league about?

If the best coaches are in three village why send them to an outside clinic?

I do not have an issue with the HS coach wanting to work with his players in the off season but the way it is being done at WM is wrong.

If money is changing hands it is a major conflict of interest.

If there is an implied threat it is wrong.

If it is not in the best interest of the player it is wrong.

Winning at the HS should be a priority for the HS coach but what they do in the off season could be altered in order to better prepare for the Varsity season.

Limited practice and five meaningless tournaments is not he best way to prepare for the Varsity Season.

I think the fact that the school district is very large which means more kids to chose from has more to do with the success than the coaches who feel they are the "gold" standard. As with most sports the good coaches have the most talent to work with.

this post is a crock ....the wm summer teams only have 25 players...all the kids play. if you are a wm parent you would know this. you do get the exposure to recruiters...every kid played including goalies. the 12-15 kid senario is bogus.

I think last year it was 28 or 29 players on the Green team.

Who cares, the question is:

Is it a conflict of interest for a High School Coach to coerce players into playing for a summer team when he has a financial interest in that team?

Be Honest...

To those of you who believe that (the coach will play the best players) I will challenge you by saying that (the coach will play who he believes to be the best players). They may or may not be the best players but it is his decision.

In a district the size of Ward Melville there are very good players who do not get on the field. The coach does not always select the best player. Take a look at this years team, many of their best players did not see much playing time as juniors. Were last years Seniors so much better??

I am not questioning the coaches, I am pointing out that they are blessed with depth and that not every kid can get quality playing time.

If you feel that your son would be better served by doing something different for the summer so be it. No player should be punished for trying to get better and help himself.

The question is: Is it a conflict of interest????


It is if the coaches (town and school) advise them to not play club. They claim they are trying to build a program, but I need to be paid for their time. No problem with that or the hs coaches making money. However, there should be no pressure to play. That is ridiculous and that behavior/policy is unacceptable. The club vs town/school issue rages on.... These coaches should just form a club and embrace it. Imagine a club run by the wm, Smithtown, and sachem coaches.

are you kidding? the coaches only put who they think are the best players.... yea! who should pick then you? you are delusional. lets have mommy pick... did you read what you wrote or are you that clueless? this yrs sr class WAS & Is that much better. Hands down. Bottom line its a numbers game
hot everyone can get on the field. Move to a district that doesnt have as competitive of a program & your superstar will have a mailbox full of full schollys. as far as sm wm & sachem
putting a club together? another clueless statement...all great programs ...too many kids! same program again.
you parents ran the dads coaching the hs summer team out of town, that concept wasnt right because all the dad's kids were getting all the full rides so then you wanted the hs coaches involved...NOW thats not working...lets have MOMMMY coach!

another parent mis informed....playing multi level not
ideal for recruiting? com'on...lets see, petey only plays well against kids his own age....lol coaches know what grade a player is in. And if your playing on a team like WM, coaches
have a very high level of respect for the WM program & that goes a long way for your kid...more than you know...so the fact that a 9, 10th grader is playing on WM team gets you interest.they dont expect that kid to be dominating a raising senior...they are looking at lax iq, hustle, etc. maybe you should contact a college coach and ask, what do you look for
in a player? you may be surprised & certainly tell them you play in the WM program....your other comment, what if my son wants to play in a more competitive tournament? you REALLY me that YOU want him to play in a more competitive tournament! on other words your kid only plays his best when he is on a "stacked" team? one thing you will find out after the conversation with that college coach is that they look for kids that make the other players around them, BETTER! they want NOTHING to do with the prima donna that can only play with good players. Last ask that coach why they ALWAYS talk to the kids hs coach? because these club coaches are full of crap
when it comes to a kids talent level....follow the money...clubs will keep telling you are a cant miss D1 player...why? cause they want your $$$ next year & next year
etc. Dont forget the club scens has many levels...each club has a #1 team. if you're not on it, your tosing your money away
espcially if your a wm kid...talk about a drop off. you shouldnt lose sight of the value playing for the WM program.

are you kidding? the coaches only put who they think are the best players.... yea! who should pick then you? you are delusional. lets have mommy pick... did you read what you wrote or are you that clueless? this yrs sr class WAS & Is that much better. Hands down. Bottom line its a numbers game
hot everyone can get on the field. Move to a district that doesnt have as competitive of a program & your superstar will have a mailbox full of full schollys. as far as sm wm & sachem
putting a club together? another clueless statement...all great programs ...too many kids! same program again.
you parents ran the dads coaching the hs summer team out of town, that concept wasnt right because all the dad's kids were getting all the full rides so then you wanted the hs coaches involved...NOW thats not working...lets have MOMMMY coach!

First of all, my post was trying to be positive. You have a lot of anger and clearly don't even want to see both point of views. Calling me misinformed demonstrates that. Please read objectively.

Let's start with your first argument about multi level. Maybe you should talk to some of the WM 2012 Summer Green Team parents about how when WM got on the field to play as rising seniors even though there were younger players, there were instances when coaches walked away assuming that if a senior was that good he would have been committed already. Some of these coaches were unaware that mixed grades were playing. This was a big disadvantage for rising juniors. This is a fact and a valid concern. Hopefully, this was rectified for the players this summer.

Of course, coaches look for hustle and lacrosse IQ. You offered no new insight there. Coaches also look at the behavior of the player on and off the field as well as their parents' behavior. This holds true for both WM and club.

Of course, playing for WM during the school season holds weight with college coaches. WM has a long history of great lacrosse. Not sure it holds as much weight during the summer. You should ask them that. Some coaches want to know if you can mesh well with players from other towns and not just the ones that you have played PAL with since 2nd grade. After all, you are not taking your entire HS team to college with you.

As far as your point of wanting my son to play on a "stacked" team, I never said that. I think it is a benefit for my son to play in more competitive tournaments as does he, so he can be amongst some of the most competitive players in his age group. This shows us where he falls and what he needs to work on. It helps raise his level of play. It's good for him to learn from players that he does not play with all the time and be inspired by them. This does not mean he doesn't look up to his school teammates because he has respect for them too. This also does not mean that he is a "prima donna" as you put it. If you knew my son at all, you would know that he is a very unselfish player. I guess name calling and insulting a young teen makes you feel better and somehow makes you think your point is valid.

As far as the "club scene" that you negatively refer too, he is on the #1 team since you brought it up. That doesn't mean that the B Teams do not have talent which I am sure you are aware of since they have beaten 3V's A team on many occasion including Patriots Elite's team as well.

Yes, playing club does cost more $, but probably not as much $ as you would think. You get what you pay for. It's probably comparable to all the $ WM kids pay for private lessons and the clinics they try to take discretely after the parents proclaim that we have the best coaches anywhere and no need to go anywhere else. In years to come if my son wants to play college lacrosse and if he has the talent and the grades, I have no doubt that my son's club coaches and school coaches will do whatever they can to help him get recruited whether it be D1, D2, or D3.

All these boys will be playing school lacrosse together. It's important that we respect each other and the different decisions parents made for their sons. In all situations, everyone has their child's best interest in mind. There are just different avenues for helping your child improve his lacrosse skills. We never lost sight of playing for a WM program. We live in the district first for it's reputation for a great education, it's a wonderful community to raise a family and it certainly helps that my children love lacrosse in a district that excels at the sport.

I have faith that our HS coach would never hold it against an athlete based on where he decided to play during the off season. Each player needs to be evaluated each season based on school tryouts. Because then surely it would be a conflict of interest if WM's coach cut or didn't play a deserving athlete due to that athlete not contributing to his summer salary.

they didnt play as juniors because at that point in time, there were better players a head of them. Remember the coach plays who HE thinks is the best players. dont forget, players
improve, some stay the same, and some regress. the WM pole has an amazing senior year..took advatange of the opportunity & made the best of it. same thing for this year, which kids will step up ? there are a lot of 2014's that have the potential to have great senior years. wait & see.

Do you truly believe that the coaches get it right 100% of the time?

At WM there are very good players that do not get quality playing time and that is OK. But please do not insist that "the coaches play the best kids".

The coaches try their best and they play who they believe to be the best but every year there are very good players who do not see the field. Every kid they play is good but not every good player gets to play. That is reality, not a complaint.

If the WM coaches do not favor you son in the 9th or 10th grade does it make sense to play with WM in the summer if he could play for a strong club team?

I am not sure what to do.

But this is the situation that makes me ask the question.

Is it a conflict of interest for the HS Coach?

I think it is.

It amazing that the coaches just lead their team and community to a national ranking and state championship and are still being hammered by the parents in their community. What a shame. The truth is if your a parent you have an comment for everything, and if your an alumni of the greatest high school lacrosse program in the country you have a real clue about the truth and what it takes to play at the next level. Here's a big clue to play at the next level for the players, you go to college by yourself, mom and dad stay home. Here's another clue, if you think playing on express or 91 is better for your kid to get into college your wrong. As per every college coach they think its a joke that these kids play for another team other then their high school especially if they live in sachem, smith town, west I, ward Melville. This shows them lack of commitment, believe, trust, and most importantly to every coach, character! Which stems from their up bringing and beliefs. No coach will recruit a player who's parent is an issue as well. Believe what you want but this is the absolute truth.
Ward Melville lacrosse is back, be a part of it or don't! Either way the coaches and players will not care what any of you have to say and they will continue to do what's right for the program and community, and that's WIN!

It amazing that the coaches just lead their team and community to a national ranking and state championship and are still being hammered by the parents in their community. What a shame. The truth is if your a parent you have an comment for everything, and if your an alumni of the greatest high school lacrosse program in the country you have a real clue about the truth and what it takes to play at the next level. Here's a big clue to play at the next level for the players, you go to college by yourself, mom and dad stay home. Here's another clue, if you think playing on express or 91 is better for your kid to get into college your wrong. As per every college coach they think its a joke that these kids play for another team other then their high school especially if they live in sachem, smith town, west I, ward Melville. This shows them lack of commitment, believe, trust, and most importantly to every coach, character! Which stems from their up bringing and beliefs. No coach will recruit a player who's parent is an issue as well. Believe what you want but this is the absolute truth.
Ward Melville lacrosse is back, be a part of it or don't! Either way the coaches and players will not care what any of you have to say and they will continue to do what's right for the program and community, and that's WIN!

It amazing that the coaches just lead their team and community to a national ranking and state championship and are still being hammered by the parents in their community. What a shame. The truth is if your a parent you have an comment for everything, and if your an alumni of the greatest high school lacrosse program in the country you have a real clue about the truth and what it takes to play at the next level. Here's a big clue to play at the next level for the players, you go to college by yourself, mom and dad stay home. Here's another clue, if you think playing on express or 91 is better for your kid to get into college your wrong. As per every college coach they think its a joke that these kids play for another team other then their high school especially if they live in sachem, smith town, west I, ward Melville. This shows them lack of commitment, believe, trust, and most importantly to every coach, character! Which stems from their up bringing and beliefs. No coach will recruit a player who's parent is an issue as well. Believe what you want but this is the absolute truth.
Ward Melville lacrosse is back, be a part of it or don't! Either way the coaches and players will not care what any of you have to say and they will continue to do what's right for the program and community, and that's WIN!

Kudos to the WM coaches. No one is saying that they didn't do a great job leading their players to a state championship. The previous poster even said that they try their best. You can honestly say that you talked to every college coach and they think 91 and Express are jokes? Really? If that's the case, then why do they have such a high rate of commitments to very impressive schools? Once again, the thread is about if it is a conflict. It doesn't mean that people do not think the coaches do a great job during the school season. It purely means, could there be a possible conflict and many many people believe there could be. Even some of the players/parents that play on the green and gold team believe it, but play on it just in case it is held against them. People are entitled to their humble opinion.

Has a player ever been penalized for not playing with the ward Melville summer program? Has it been held against a player that they played somewhere else?