BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

Unfortunately, this exact scenario is very common and will probably affect my son in another couple years...

This trend has reached a new level in Ward Melville. For years, the youth program has said if you play outside of our 3 village program you can’t play on the town travel team. That was fine and everyone understood their options. Some families stayed with the town program, but some also left for select teams like express, 91 team LI...The families that left generally have either really good players that wanted more competition than town team tournaments, or players that weren’t as strong that weren’t getting playing time on the town team. It was sad that the teams lost players and the boys lost the opportunity to practice and play with their friends, but generally it worked out ok for all.

Now, at the HS travel level they have two teams-Green and Gold (JV and Varsity) being coached by HS coaches. At the recent try-outs, there were approximately 100 boys for roughly 50 spots. There were several boys trying out that had previously played on select teams (all whom are now very strong players). Having talked to some of those families I learned that they were trying out to make sure the HS coaches knew their kid existed…

At the end of the try-out, the coaches thanked all for the boys for trying out and were pretty open about their expectations. They don’t want any Ward Melville boys playing outside of their reams. The threat is clear, play elsewhere and you have no shot at playing on the Varsity team ever. Now, for most of the boys, the threat is really nonsense as the HS varsity team rarely plays more than 12 or 13 boys during any game (except for last Q in a blowout, starters don’t leave the field). So unless you have a real shot to be one of those 12 or 13, you should tell the coach to jump off the local bridge. However, if you have a shot to be one of those, then you are in a ridiculous bind. The coaches want the boys together because they say it makes the HS team stronger and it is a fair point. But all the boys want the chance to play. So if you are one of the 12 or 13 you get looked at by colleges and have a shot to get recruited, but if your are not and only play at junk time, no one ever sees you.

The summer team plays 5 tournaments and so unless you are on of the 12 or 13, you need to get really lucky to get an opportunity for a college coach to see you do anything…It is left to each kid to figure out how to get himself recruited.

The net result in WM is that at any given time there are 10 kids that won’t see the field that would get a starting job at most other HS programs. They are giving up their shot to play and get looked at by colleges (remember D II and D III are really great options for most kids) –all to make the HS program stronger???

In my humble opinion this is a completely inappropriate use of power by a HS coach, by a school district and a complete shame. I have heard a rumor that Smithtown is making a similar threat and as a result I suspect Turtles team will also be impacted as some will choose HS team over Turtle team.

This trend has reached a new level in Ward Melville. For years, the youth program has said if you play outside of our 3 village program you can’t play on the town travel team. That was fine and everyone understood their options. Some families stayed with the town program, but some also left for select teams like express, 91 team LI...The families that left generally have either really good players that wanted more competition than town team tournaments, or players that weren’t as strong that weren’t getting playing time on the town team. It was sad that the teams lost players and the boys lost the opportunity to practice and play with their friends, but generally it worked out ok for all.

Now, at the HS travel level they have two teams-Green and Gold (JV and Varsity) being coached by HS coaches. At the recent try-outs, there were approximately 100 boys for roughly 50 spots. There were several boys trying out that had previously played on select teams (all whom are now very strong players). Having talked to some of those families I learned that they were trying out to make sure the HS coaches knew their kid existed…

At the end of the try-out, the coaches thanked all for the boys for trying out and were pretty open about their expectations. They don’t want any Ward Melville boys playing outside of their reams. The threat is clear, play elsewhere and you have no shot at playing on the Varsity team ever. Now, for most of the boys, the threat is really nonsense as the HS varsity team rarely plays more than 12 or 13 boys during any game (except for last Q in a blowout, starters don’t leave the field). So unless you have a real shot to be one of those 12 or 13, you should tell the coach to jump off the local bridge. However, if you have a shot to be one of those, then you are in a ridiculous bind. The coaches want the boys together because they say it makes the HS team stronger and it is a fair point. But all the boys want the chance to play. So if you are one of the 12 or 13 you get looked at by colleges and have a shot to get recruited, but if your are not and only play at junk time, no one ever sees you.

The summer team plays 5 tournaments and so unless you are on of the 12 or 13, you need to get really lucky to get an opportunity for a college coach to see you do anything…It is left to each kid to figure out how to get himself recruited.

The net result in WM is that at any given time there are 10 kids that won’t see the field that would get a starting job at most other HS programs. They are giving up their shot to play and get looked at by colleges (remember D II and D III are really great options for most kids) –all to make the HS program stronger???

In my humble opinion this is a completely inappropriate use of power by a HS coach, by a school district and a complete shame. I have heard a rumor that Smithtown is making a similar threat and as a result I suspect Turtles team will also be impacted as some will choose HS team over Turtle team.

This trend has reached a new level in Ward Melville. For years, the youth program has said if you play outside of our 3 village program you can’t play on the town travel team. That was fine and everyone understood their options. Some families stayed with the town program, but some also left for select teams like express, 91 team LI...The families that left generally have either really good players that wanted more competition than town team tournaments, or players that weren’t as strong that weren’t getting playing time on the town team. It was sad that the teams lost players and the boys lost the opportunity to practice and play with their friends, but generally it worked out ok for all.

Now, at the HS travel level they have two teams-Green and Gold (JV and Varsity) being coached by HS coaches. At the recent try-outs, there were approximately 100 boys for roughly 50 spots. There were several boys trying out that had previously played on select teams (all whom are now very strong players). Having talked to some of those families I learned that they were trying out to make sure the HS coaches knew their kid existed…

At the end of the try-out, the coaches thanked all for the boys for trying out and were pretty open about their expectations. They don’t want any Ward Melville boys playing outside of their reams. The threat is clear, play elsewhere and you have no shot at playing on the Varsity team ever. Now, for most of the boys, the threat is really nonsense as the HS varsity team rarely plays more than 12 or 13 boys during any game (except for last Q in a blowout, starters don’t leave the field). So unless you have a real shot to be one of those 12 or 13, you should tell the coach to jump off the local bridge. However, if you have a shot to be one of those, then you are in a ridiculous bind. The coaches want the boys together because they say it makes the HS team stronger and it is a fair point. But all the boys want the chance to play. So if you are one of the 12 or 13 you get looked at by colleges and have a shot to get recruited, but if your are not and only play at junk time, no one ever sees you.

The summer team plays 5 tournaments and so unless you are on of the 12 or 13, you need to get really lucky to get an opportunity for a college coach to see you do anything…It is left to each kid to figure out how to get himself recruited.

The net result in WM is that at any given time there are 10 kids that won’t see the field that would get a starting job at most other HS programs. They are giving up their shot to play and get looked at by colleges (remember D II and D III are really great options for most kids) –all to make the HS program stronger???

In my humble opinion this is a completely inappropriate use of power by a HS coach, by a school district and a complete shame. I have heard a rumor that Smithtown is making a similar threat and as a result I suspect Turtles team will also be impacted as some will choose HS team over Turtle team.

This trend has reached a new level in Ward Melville. For years, the youth program has said if you play outside of our 3 village program you can’t play on the town travel team. That was fine and everyone understood their options. Some families stayed with the town program, but some also left for select teams like express, 91 team LI...The families that left generally have either really good players that wanted more competition than town team tournaments, or players that weren’t as strong that weren’t getting playing time on the town team. It was sad that the teams lost players and the boys lost the opportunity to practice and play with their friends, but generally it worked out ok for all.

Now, at the HS travel level they have two teams-Green and Gold (JV and Varsity) being coached by HS coaches. At the recent try-outs, there were approximately 100 boys for roughly 50 spots. There were several boys trying out that had previously played on select teams (all whom are now very strong players). Having talked to some of those families I learned that they were trying out to make sure the HS coaches knew their kid existed…

At the end of the try-out, the coaches thanked all for the boys for trying out and were pretty open about their expectations. They don’t want any Ward Melville boys playing outside of their reams. The threat is clear, play elsewhere and you have no shot at playing on the Varsity team ever. Now, for most of the boys, the threat is really nonsense as the HS varsity team rarely plays more than 12 or 13 boys during any game (except for last Q in a blowout, starters don’t leave the field). So unless you have a real shot to be one of those 12 or 13, you should tell the coach to jump off the local bridge. However, if you have a shot to be one of those, then you are in a ridiculous bind. The coaches want the boys together because they say it makes the HS team stronger and it is a fair point. But all the boys want the chance to play. So if you are one of the 12 or 13 you get looked at by colleges and have a shot to get recruited, but if your are not and only play at junk time, no one ever sees you.

The summer team plays 5 tournaments and so unless you are on of the 12 or 13, you need to get really lucky to get an opportunity for a college coach to see you do anything…It is left to each kid to figure out how to get himself recruited.

The net result in WM is that at any given time there are 10 kids that won’t see the field that would get a starting job at most other HS programs. They are giving up their shot to play and get looked at by colleges (remember D II and D III are really great options for most kids) –all to make the HS program stronger???

In my humble opinion this is a completely inappropriate use of power by a HS coach, by a school district and a complete shame. I have heard a rumor that Smithtown is making a similar threat and as a result I suspect Turtles team will also be impacted as some will choose HS team over Turtle team.

Excellent post. There are many other HS coaches trying to do the same thing. It is unfair for any kid or family to be strong armed into playing for their town team on their own FREE time. In addition, in most cases it borders on extortion. These coaches are profiting Big time! The coaches use the fear of not playing to line their pockets! There is also the issue that most of the town teams will not compete with the best travel teams. In those recruiting tournaments it is tough to be seen by college coaches when you are playing in the B bracket or consolation games on the back fields. If you are a true A player that can compete on a top travel team you may never get recruited because nobody will see you. The shame of it all is that there is another 10 months out of the year that these HS teams can build chemistry by doing clinics, leagues an tournaments! If these coaches truly have the kids best interest in mind they would want them to get as many opportunities as they can and by doing both they will have coaching diversity and their stick in their hand even more! Parents should not let their kids be bullied and make sure that they don't miss out on the opportunity for their child to play in college!

This trend has reached a new level in Ward Melville. For years, the youth program has said if you play outside of our 3 village program you can’t play on the town travel team. That was fine and everyone understood their options. Some families stayed with the town program, but some also left for select teams like express, 91 team LI...The families that left generally have either really good players that wanted more competition than town team tournaments, or players that weren’t as strong that weren’t getting playing time on the town team. It was sad that the teams lost players and the boys lost the opportunity to practice and play with their friends, but generally it worked out ok for all.

Now, at the HS travel level they have two teams-Green and Gold (JV and Varsity) being coached by HS coaches. At the recent try-outs, there were approximately 100 boys for roughly 50 spots. There were several boys trying out that had previously played on select teams (all whom are now very strong players). Having talked to some of those families I learned that they were trying out to make sure the HS coaches knew their kid existed…

At the end of the try-out, the coaches thanked all for the boys for trying out and were pretty open about their expectations. They don’t want any Ward Melville boys playing outside of their reams. The threat is clear, play elsewhere and you have no shot at playing on the Varsity team ever. Now, for most of the boys, the threat is really nonsense as the HS varsity team rarely plays more than 12 or 13 boys during any game (except for last Q in a blowout, starters don’t leave the field). So unless you have a real shot to be one of those 12 or 13, you should tell the coach to jump off the local bridge. However, if you have a shot to be one of those, then you are in a ridiculous bind. The coaches want the boys together because they say it makes the HS team stronger and it is a fair point. But all the boys want the chance to play. So if you are one of the 12 or 13 you get looked at by colleges and have a shot to get recruited, but if your are not and only play at junk time, no one ever sees you.

The summer team plays 5 tournaments and so unless you are on of the 12 or 13, you need to get really lucky to get an opportunity for a college coach to see you do anything…It is left to each kid to figure out how to get himself recruited.

The net result in WM is that at any given time there are 10 kids that won’t see the field that would get a starting job at most other HS programs. They are giving up their shot to play and get looked at by colleges (remember D II and D III are really great options for most kids) –all to make the HS program stronger???

In my humble opinion this is a completely inappropriate use of power by a HS coach, by a school district and a complete shame. I have heard a rumor that Smithtown is making a similar threat and as a result I suspect Turtles team will also be impacted as some will choose HS team over Turtle team.

The Smithtown HS coaches have neglected the youth program for years. Now they want to reap the benefits of the Club teams. School is out in Summer and where your kid plays should be up to the consumer. If the HS coach convinces me my kid will get the best coaching, best training, best clinics, best teammates, best competition, and plenty of playing time, he might get my attention. Maybe he could throw a free helmet in too.

All this dam crying about fair and not fair. We have completely given in to the whining parent. If your kids not good enough he's not good enough that's it. Sorry if I am going to ruffle some feathers but its not PAL its not rec league where everyone get a trophy. A high school coaches career is measured on wins and losses. You win you keep your job as a coach you lose, bye bye. Thats it. Coaches,they coach and live, love the game but in the end its results. Let's put it in everyday terms for people to understand. You are in sales and work on commission you don't produce you don't have money to pay bills, and your out of a job. Do you guys get it or let's put it do you moms get it. It's not all rainbows and lollipops in the real world. Why do we think our kids are entitled it doesn't work that way.

All this dam crying about fair and not fair. We have completely given in to the whining parent. If your kids not good enough he's not good enough that's it. Sorry if I am going to ruffle some feathers but its not PAL its not rec league where everyone get a trophy. A high school coaches career is measured on wins and losses. You win you keep your job as a coach you lose, bye bye. Thats it. Coaches,they coach and live, love the game but in the end its results. Let's put it in everyday terms for people to understand. You are in sales and work on commission you don't produce you don't have money to pay bills, and your out of a job. Do you guys get it or let's put it do you moms get it. It's not all rainbows and lollipops in the real world. Why do we think our kids are entitled it doesn't work that way.

The Smithtown HS coaches have neglected the youth program for years. Now they want to reap the benefits of the Club teams. School is out in Summer and where your kid plays should be up to the consumer. If the HS coach convinces me my kid will get the best coaching, best training, best clinics, best teammates, best competition, and plenty of playing time, he might get my attention. Maybe he could throw a free helmet in too.

All this dam crying about fair and not fair. We have completely given in to the whining parent. If your kids not good enough he's not good enough that's it. Sorry if I am going to ruffle some feathers but its not PAL its not rec league where everyone get a trophy. A high school coaches career is measured on wins and losses. You win you keep your job as a coach you lose, bye bye. Thats it. Coaches,they coach and live, love the game but in the end its results. Let's put it in everyday terms for people to understand. You are in sales and work on commission you don't produce you don't have money to pay bills, and your out of a job. Do you guys get it or let's put it do you moms get it. It's not all rainbows and lollipops in the real world. Why do we think our kids are entitled it doesn't work that way.

All this dam crying about fair and not fair. We have completely given in to the whining parent. If your kids not good enough he's not good enough that's it. Sorry if I am going to ruffle some feathers but its not PAL its not rec league where everyone get a trophy. A high school coaches career is measured on wins and losses. You win you keep your job as a coach you lose, bye bye. Thats it. Coaches,they coach and live, love the game but in the end its results. Let's put it in everyday terms for people to understand. You are in sales and work on commission you don't produce you don't have money to pay bills, and your out of a job. Do you guys get it or let's put it do you moms get it. It's not all rainbows and lollipops in the real world. Why do we think our kids are entitled it doesn't work that way.

What school district do you live in??? In my district and many others I've read about here on BOTC a coach keeps his/her job until he/she steps down. It has little to do with wins and losses.

I think what the schools mentioned above is doing is wrong on a number of levels, but you assuming that the parents complaining are whining because their kid isn't good enough is missing the point. The point is about control by and making money for the HS coaches. Kids get recruited at summer tournaments by and large, not at HS games.

I think your arrogant and are not listening. The point is that if a kid is good enough to go D2 but cant get on the field on his HS team and then has to be play with them in summer or face retribution he will NEVER be looked at. My friends kid played at a powerhouse HS, he refused to play on their summer travel, in the end he actually sent his kid to a different HS where he started and received a big chunk of money from a D2 school. Not to mention, you thinkthe parent who lines the coaches pockets in the summer wont getter preferential treatment ?

To the poster above with the comment about sales--

You miss the point completely. If you sell you get paid--we agree, but what if yoour boss said--you must give kickbacks to get the sale? You must take 50% of your commision check and give it to me every month after you pay your taxes otherwise you cant sell for my or my company?

You would go find another job or you would break the law and give the guy your money...

Kids cant change schools and I really dont care about the HS coach and his coaching record. I care about my kid getting a fair shake.

I will leave it to you to worry about the coach and his record and whether your HS won the state championship.

Are you still bragging about your greatest HS sports moment???

Wake up.

WM mommys crying again....you can go back 30 years & look at the WM varsity roster & look at the breakdown of classes...it hasnt changed...by the time your soft superstar is in 11th grade, his class is down to 12-15 kids, same goes for the 12th
graders, throw in 3-4 10th graders & there you go VARSITY lacrosse. i have been out of 3 village lax for awhile but it use to be about 70-80 kids per grade 3,4,5,6. Its a funnel.
eventually each class gets filtered down to 12-15. Most people would agree that the WM lax program is one of the eleite hs programs in the country, i believe they have a 90% winning %?
(maybe off a little)with that level of success there is a challenge....ultra competitive...a program cant be that consistant for so long without the coaches doing there jobs well & unfortunately too many mommy's & dadda's want to destry it because their soft superstar isnt getting playing time!
raising your soft superstar in a perfect world bubble is a big mistake...enjoy soft johhny when he is 30yrs. old & still on your nipple...great parenting

To the D-1, Pro guy-

Good for you, happy you were a success not only in the field but in sales as well.

You are classic--

Either everyone agrees with you or they are whiny parents...

Not all about you my friend. And yes, I will do whatever it takes to give my kid the best possible shot. You agree dont you? It is a dog eat dog world, put yourself in the best possible situation to increase your odds of success. Is that not what you do in sales every day? Not about winning a county championship about getting into the best possible school with the best possible education.

I really dont disagree with much of what you say, I disagree with a HS coach telling any kid he cant play if he doesnt spend 9th 10th 11th grade summers on his town travel team as oppossed to a select travel team...

WM mommys crying again....you can go back 30 years & look at the WM varsity roster & look at the breakdown of classes...it hasnt changed...by the time your soft superstar is in 11th grade, his class is down to 12-15 kids, same goes for the 12th
graders, throw in 3-4 10th graders & there you go VARSITY lacrosse. i have been out of 3 village lax for awhile but it use to be about 70-80 kids per grade 3,4,5,6. Its a funnel.
eventually each class gets filtered down to 12-15. Most people would agree that the WM lax program is one of the eleite hs programs in the country, i believe they have a 90% winning %?
(maybe off a little)with that level of success there is a challenge....ultra competitive...a program cant be that consistant for so long without the coaches doing there jobs well & unfortunately too many mommy's & dadda's want to destry it because their soft superstar isnt getting playing time!
raising your soft superstar in a perfect world bubble is a big mistake...enjoy soft johhny when he is 30yrs. old & still on your nipple...great parenting

Can the statement about the 2018 west islip team be explained ?

i think u need to be realistic with your sons ability & dont get caught up with all the soph. verbal commit. info you see on the internet.The Acc schols, Hop, ND, etc. they are scooping up very young talent at the lower age brackets. But these kids are heads & tails above others right now. Most recruiting classes are 10-12 kids thats it. so let all the bigtime schools take there 10-12. It still leaves A TON of excellent lacrosse schools to consider....and many of them follow players into jr. sr. year before offering a spot.Not to mention D2 & D3 dont get going until late jr. sr. year as well.
Look at the WM goalie this year, he didn't get looked at until spring of senior year. He did it right....kicked [lacrosse] in the classroom & was accepted to a few ivy's w/o lacrosse...he was given a spot at Cornell. Collge coaches are always communicating with hs coaches and asking, what do you have coming up? and again, if your kid has that potential, his hs coach will pass that along. i would also check out individual colleges that have one day clinics...some times called prospect days...usually resonable $$ the college coaching staff
puts the players through a typical team practice & they get to see what you have. Many do these in the fall on a Sunday...worth looking into. Last remember these hs coaches spend alot of time with your kid in season..6 days a week. They put the best players on the field based on what they see
6 days a week. You as a parent arent there to see how your kid is performing. Many parents just cant handle the reality...especially some of the parents who coached at the youth level & there kid is longer a star on the school team.bottom line is that if your kid plays on a LI hs team and is
recruit level, college coaches will find him. college coaches know where & how to find players.. there job depends on it. You as a parent have to be able to accept the truth of your kids ability...& that is a major problem when its not favorable.....but thats life!

i think u need to be realistic with your sons ability & dont get caught up with all the soph. verbal commit. info you see on the internet.The Acc schols, Hop, ND, etc. they are scooping up very young talent at the lower age brackets. But these kids are heads & tails above others right now. Most recruiting classes are 10-12 kids thats it. so let all the bigtime schools take there 10-12. It still leaves A TON of excellent lacrosse schools to consider....and many of them follow players into jr. sr. year before offering a spot.Not to mention D2 & D3 dont get going until late jr. sr. year as well.
Look at the WM goalie this year, he didn't get looked at until spring of senior year. He did it right....kicked [lacrosse] in the classroom & was accepted to a few ivy's w/o lacrosse...he was given a spot at Cornell. Collge coaches are always communicating with hs coaches and asking, what do you have coming up? and again, if your kid has that potential, his hs coach will pass that along. i would also check out individual colleges that have one day clinics...some times called prospect days...usually resonable $$ the college coaching staff
puts the players through a typical team practice & they get to see what you have. Many do these in the fall on a Sunday...worth looking into. Last remember these hs coaches spend alot of time with your kid in season..6 days a week. They put the best players on the field based on what they see
6 days a week. You as a parent arent there to see how your kid is performing. Many parents just cant handle the reality...especially some of the parents who coached at the youth level & there kid is longer a star on the school team.bottom line is that if your kid plays on a LI hs team and is
recruit level, college coaches will find him. college coaches know where & how to find players.. there job depends on it. You as a parent have to be able to accept the truth of your kids ability...& that is a major problem when its not favorable.....but thats life!

WM mommys crying again....you can go back 30 years & look at the WM varsity roster & look at the breakdown of classes...it hasnt changed...by the time your soft superstar is in 11th grade, his class is down to 12-15 kids, same goes for the 12th
graders, throw in 3-4 10th graders & there you go VARSITY lacrosse. i have been out of 3 village lax for awhile but it use to be about 70-80 kids per grade 3,4,5,6. Its a funnel.
eventually each class gets filtered down to 12-15. Most people would agree that the WM lax program is one of the eleite hs programs in the country, i believe they have a 90% winning %?
(maybe off a little)with that level of success there is a challenge....ultra competitive...a program cant be that consistant for so long without the coaches doing there jobs well & unfortunately too many mommy's & dadda's want to destry it because their soft superstar isnt getting playing time!
raising your soft superstar in a perfect world bubble is a big mistake...enjoy soft johhny when he is 30yrs. old & still on your nipple...great parenting

i think u need to be realistic with your sons ability & dont get caught up with all the soph. verbal commit. info you see on the internet.The Acc schols, Hop, ND, etc. they are scooping up very young talent at the lower age brackets. But these kids are heads & tails above others right now. Most recruiting classes are 10-12 kids thats it. so let all the bigtime schools take there 10-12. It still leaves A TON of excellent lacrosse schools to consider....and many of them follow players into jr. sr. year before offering a spot.Not to mention D2 & D3 dont get going until late jr. sr. year as well.
Look at the WM goalie this year, he didn't get looked at until spring of senior year. He did it right....kicked [lacrosse] in the classroom & was accepted to a few ivy's w/o lacrosse...he was given a spot at Cornell. Collge coaches are always communicating with hs coaches and asking, what do you have coming up? and again, if your kid has that potential, his hs coach will pass that along. i would also check out individual colleges that have one day clinics...some times called prospect days...usually resonable $$ the college coaching staff
puts the players through a typical team practice & they get to see what you have. Many do these in the fall on a Sunday...worth looking into. Last remember these hs coaches spend alot of time with your kid in season..6 days a week. They put the best players on the field based on what they see
6 days a week. You as a parent arent there to see how your kid is performing. Many parents just cant handle the reality...especially some of the parents who coached at the youth level & there kid is longer a star on the school team.bottom line is that if your kid plays on a LI hs team and is
recruit level, college coaches will find him. college coaches know where & how to find players.. there job depends on it. You as a parent have to be able to accept the truth of your kids ability...& that is a major problem when its not favorable.....but thats life!