BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Age Group Conversion Table

Several threads have been asking about age group eligibility and BOTC wanted to bring the table that we have constructed to its own thread to make the information easy to find and understand.

This table is structured with the Class of 2013 as the starting point. Once the new seasonal year (a soccer concept) begins in the August timeframe, the entire table will roll forward to a new year - hence, the U-groups will all be +1 from their current standing.

It is very important that readers look at this data since those October/November birthdates tend to create most of the controversy and this example helps you to see why!

12/01/94 - 08/31/95 ... Class of 2013 ... 12th Grade ... U/18
09/01/95 - 11/30/95 ... Class of 2013 ... 12th Grade ... U/17

12/01/95 - 08/31/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 11th Grade ... U/17
09/01/96 - 11/30/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 11th Grade ... U/16

12/01/96 - 08/31/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 10th Grade ... U/16
09/01/97 - 11/30/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 10th Grade ... U/15

12/01/97 - 08/31/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 9th Grade .... U/15
09/01/98 - 11/30/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 9th Grade .... U/14

12/01/98 - 08/31/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 8th Grade .... U/14
09/01/99 - 11/30/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 8th Grade .... U/13

12/01/99 - 08/31/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 7th Grade .... U/13
09/01/00 - 11/30/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 7th Grade .... U/12

12/01/00 - 08/31/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 6th Grade .... U/12
09/01/01 - 11/30/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 6th Grade .... U/11

12/01/01 - 08/31/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 5th Grade .... U/11
09/01/02 - 11/30/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 5th Grade .... U/10

12/01/02 - 08/31/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 4th Grade .... U/10
09/01/03 - 11/30/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 4th Grade .... U/9

12/01/03 - 08/31/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 3rd Grade .... U/9
09/01/04 - 11/30/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 3rd Grade .... U/8

12/01/04 - 08/31/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 2nd Grade .... U/8
09/01/05 - 11/30/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 2nd Grade .... U/7

Why doesn't lacrosse go to the hockey model - kids play in their birth year.

Less confusing.

hockey parents are not bright enough to figure out grade year so they have to go by birth year because it is less confusing

In all honesty, given the errors in tournament placements and arguments between parents and clubs this summer, it is not clear that the lacrosse world is handling the current situation very well. This is a glass house situation if ever there was one.

Rolling the Age Group Conversion Table forward to cover the upcoming academic year now that August has arrived.

12/01/95 - 08/31/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 12th Grade ... U/18
09/01/96 - 11/30/96 ... Class of 2014 ... 12th Grade ... U/17

12/01/96 - 08/31/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 11th Grade ... U/17
09/01/97 - 11/30/97 ... Class of 2015 ... 11th Grade ... U/16

12/01/97 - 08/31/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 10th Grade ... U/16
09/01/98 - 11/30/98 ... Class of 2016 ... 10th Grade ... U/15

12/01/98 - 08/31/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 9th Grade .... U/15
09/01/99 - 11/30/99 ... Class of 2017 ... 9th Grade .... U/14

12/01/99 - 08/31/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/14
09/01/00 - 11/30/00 ... Class of 2018 ... 8th Grade .... U/13

12/01/00 - 08/31/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/13
09/01/01 - 11/30/01 ... Class of 2019 ... 7th Grade .... U/12

12/01/01 - 08/31/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/12
09/01/02 - 11/30/02 ... Class of 2020 ... 6th Grade .... U/11

12/01/02 - 08/31/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 5th Grade .... U/11
09/01/03 - 11/30/03 ... Class of 2021 ... 5th Grade .... U/10

12/01/03 - 08/31/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 4rd Grade .... U/10
09/01/04 - 11/30/04 ... Class of 2022 ... 4rd Grade .... U/9

12/01/04 - 08/31/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 3nd Grade .... U/9
09/01/05 - 11/30/05 ... Class of 2023 ... 3nd Grade .... U/8

12/01/05 - 08/31/06 ... Class of 2024 ... 2nd Grade .... U/8
09/01/06 - 11/30/06 ... Class of 2024 ... 2nd Grade .... U/7

The problem is the whole Summer Tournament Season is driven by the college coaches and recruiting. They want to see games played between specific graduating classes so they dont waste time looking at kids they dont need.

The soccer world manages to handle recruiting based on birth dates.

Who cares, It's soccer. This is lacrosse. There are millions of kids playing soccer and only a few get noticed so let soccer do whatever they want. Lacrosse is a much smaller community, with a higher chance of getting seen so lets drop the soccer/lacrosse comparison. If I wanted my kid in a soccer structure she would be playing soccer.

We can try this another way.

"Sport A" is well organized at the top, does not have sideline participants complaining about age group violations, trusts that the underlying system has proper enforcement, believes that the tournaments are matching properly aged teams, and has a single structure (U-age groups) governing leagues, tournaments, and recruiting.

"Sport B" is lacrosse. Accusations of age group violations abound, enforcement is left to the discretion of tournament organizers (subject to scrutiny from sites such as BOTC), tournament mismatches happen more often, and there are multiple age alignment structures contributing to the problems without a resolution in sight.

So, what is BOTC doing about it? We are meeting with US Lacrosse and local LIMLF representatives on Thursday, August 15th to discuss these points along with many others. Whether change is afoot remains to be seen.

What Cage said.

reading through these posts it seems that there are some unhappy people with the U designation also. It seems to me thst some people are complaining that there is a huge gap in the grad year and in the U system also Cage and Powder are both soccer first people, trying to force there will on a sport that is not wholly there first love. In the U designation. as we saw this year in florida with top guns, we had 3 players from a 2015 grad year, rising juniors. playing against moastly rising sophs and frosh, basically we had girls that were days away from being 16 playing against 14&15 y/o .both are flawed, so lets stay with the devil we know

You're missing CageSage's point above: no one is bitching on the soccer end of things because the rule is unilateral across all soccer organizations and tournaments. In the soccer world there wouldn't be an argument about the U15 tournament. US Lacrosse created the tournament rules so they are not in line with club/team standards. Blame them for this mess.

Furthermore, forcing my will on lacrosse? How much power do you think I have? I'll tell you: none. If I could make a change the first thing I'd do was institute a personal foul rule like basketball, five fouls and you're out of the game. Clean up the dirty play. So what is my first love: soccer or basketball? ;-)

Stick with grad year, those who bend the system are cheaters and we'll all know who they at the time. I'd rather that then always play boys or girls in a "U" situation that skips a year. U9 U11 U13 U15 U17.

Understanding around the country many towns may not have enough kids at an age group, and if that happens you play up / at the oldest grade level on your team (regardless of one player on the team). The unfortunate thing here is an older player who is less skilled than the younger ones. Well when I was growing up they had cuts for travel.

In supporting class year graduations, you are saying that :

• you are fine with players being held back or left back for one or possibly two years based on academics and playing with those potentially one or two years younger,
• the need for birth certificates at tournaments should be waived since you cannot do anything in terms of the player's age, and
• you are willing to trust the club coaches in designing their graduating year classes since there will not be any school administered documentation confirming a graduation year.

Effectively, you are saying that what is in place right now is just fine. Seriously, I do not think that folks are thinking through the implications of their statements.

As for the opposition to the U-age groups, why do these groups have to be every other year? Clearly, there are enough players to form teams based on class year. U-age groups only shifts the calendar window for grouping student-athletes by a few months.

Player cards

Also I've noticed on the boys' threads parents' frequent compaints about their sons playing "men." As well, there have been discussions on this board about kids who were held back from starting kindergarten to give them an advantage (academic? athletic? IDK.). Going by grad year does not address these issues but going by birth date does.

Organizational soccer has been around for a lot longer than organizational lacrosse, and on a much larger scale. It could just be that they chose birth date after trial and error and found it to be the most manageable. AAU basketball, also a successful, longstanding program, also goes by birth year.

References to soccer are TABOO but there really is no comparison. Laminated verified approved eligibility cards for coaches and players. Leagues and Tournamnets that align teams by ability. Upward and downward movement from season to season. Everyone trusts you are playing the same team from week to week instead of all this movement from team to team from weekend to weekend.

The disney national championship scores were and absolute joke on the girls side.

If its just about recruiting then everything is fine. If you want to call it a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP then tighten up the rosters!

I am not saying do away with governing it. I understand BC/DOB's are the easiest but sometimes the easiest isn't the best. US Lacrosse has you register DOB (not sure if they record grade - I just re-up my kids and me) if grade isnt recorded why not put the grad year in US Lacrosse and have them issue rosters.

For those that play on multiple teams, okay, as long as you are grade eligible and sign up as a part of that organization. As far as pulling kids from an A team to play B or vice versa (in grade or playing up). I actually like that idea (may be in the minority - So me say play with whom you try'd out for - I agree to a point - but if a team within our org is short players or the org wants to put a "special" team in an extra tournament go for it)


As far as the held/left back, yes it is what it is and they will play with them in gym and eventually in HS so why not grow up in sports with them. If that held back kid is really that good then he should play a year up to get better (shame on the parents if they don't seek that outlet). At the same time, I do believe there needs to be a certain rule that protects against a player who was left back twice. (kind've like a weight limit many football leagues impose).

Just play your age u9,10,12,13,14,15,16, etc... Leave no grey area. If you're 9 you play u9, you are either 9 or you're not, etc...with player cards and straight ages groups "cheaters" will be called out and ejected from that game. Period. Eventually people will have no choice to comply.

powder I don't know or care what your first love is .But it clearly isn't lax, It sounds like you want lacrosse to be basketball or soccer, and if you like those rules better than have your kid play those sports. But do us a favor and stop comparing Lax to soccer or b-ball. You might like the U designation, and it might fit soccer, but lax is driven by a single engine, college recruitment. If you and Cage see this, thats on you two. Most college coaches don't care if a kid started school early or late because of there birthdate, they only care about when is this kid available to me. furthermore, any idiot that leaves there kid back to gain an advantage over other kids in lacrosse is really only doing there kid harm. How many colleges are going to accept someone that couldn't complete a grade in primary or secondary school over a kid that did with higher grades. All students are still subject to every schools academic standards

Leave no grey areas, when does the clock Start/stop - 9/1. Why 9/1 because schools do it that way?

and the cycle continues.

I hear you and agree, I like grade based, but your argument is a bit flawed. 3 things that are happening:

1).Families are holding back their kids before school starts (not necessarily for sports)
2). Families are holding kids back in 2nd/3rd grade (what ever the reason - Seamless the student in LETS SAY WHEN THEY GO INTO 6TH GRADE - and definitely seamless to colleges by the time recruiting years come by)
3). Colleges are suggesting the 9th grade hold back (attend a private and repeat 9th).


At least on the boys side

A little research goes a long way. Here are the facts. In N.Y. A child must be the age of 5 by December 31 of the school year. This means that a child can be 4 years old for the first 4 months of school. In Maryland child must be 5 years old by september 1 of the school year or must be held out. meaning, if your kid is born on September 2 he/she will not start school until he/she is 6. a full year later. there not cheating. This is no different than the u designation. If the cut off is aug. 1 and a kid is born on july 30. he she is a full year older at least , then the average kid

That's why every year should have their own group. at least the gap will be only 1 full year not 2.

Here's the problem, they hold back anyway. Then the others particularly the private, repeat 9th grade. Age based, for everything with birth certificate verification. Anyone who argues is invested in the status quo. They're trying to game the system. Why? Anyone in sports knows 18-24 month age difference in physical maturity is a huge advantage. Imagine a 17 yo boy competing against 14 and 15 year olds at a recruiting camp. Yeah they're all rising sophomores, but who is going to standout? Please. Yes the college coaches know he'll be 19 as a college freshman and they love it. They get a man verses a boy. Football, Hockey, Soccer, Basketball, Baseball, all verify age... Its time lax gets it together.

And your "facts" are incorrect. In NYC, the date is 12/31. On all of Long Island except one or two districts, the date is 12/1. What we often see on LI is a child born in Sept, Oct or Nov, who is age eligible for kindergarten, held back until the following school year. Thus, when they enter kindergarten at 6 years od., almost seven, they at be a full year older than students born in those same months the following year who entered school at the appropriate time. This is fairly common, particularly in the wealthier communities, on LI.

Sounds like my facts were pretty much right on target, excuse me , a kid could be 4 for 3 months mot 4. the sad truth is in our rush to go back to work we are putting our kids in school when it's most convenient for us and not in the best interest of our children. Maybe we should stop crying about choices we made. Here is a question for all of you complaining about the grad year. Are you the same parents pushing your kids to varsity in the 7,8,9th grade because little Johnny/Janie is so good? And if so why is this somehow different? Isn't the age gape there worse, where is the concern? I think most of you are just complaining because at some point you have lost. No matter how you designate lacrosse , Football, soccer or any sport there will always be a a no less than 12 month spread youngest to oldest, and in most cases closer to 18 months. unless you want make it so P.C. that you can only play kids born in the same month of the same year

If you go by birthdate then all players are withing a 12-month span, unless a kid plays up, and then that's your choice if you make the team.

In my experience, more parents keep their kids back from kindergarten rather than force them to go because the parents both work. I don't think that's just my town but I could be mistaken.

All the moved-up varsity players must pass state standards of physical ability and maturity. That still can yield players who are much smaller than their on-age teammates though. I once heard a mom yelling that the opposing team was being too rough on her 8th grade daughter; that's the risk you take when you let your child play up. But again, that's a family choice. To my mind, that's a bit different than showing up at a tournament and watching your team face kids who are in the same year of school but a year or two older.

that could be a reason, but my experience has been the exact opposite. Many parents seem to keep their smart, well adjusted kids back with the idea that it might give them an (unfair) edge on the fields. Then they seem to give very unusual excuses when the topic comes up, although some are very honest about it.

So your saying that you know parents that had the foresight to keep there kids out of kindergarten for a year so they could have an advantage 5 to 10 years later, assuming the kid would be playing lax, any good at it , and totally into it ? I'm calling bull s%&t

No, they kept him out a year so he would have an advantage in EVERYTHING. Older boys tend to fill the leadership roles at school, they are better prepared mentally and physically for all tasks.

Sad, but true! The two I'm thinking of right off the top of my head had athletic parents who apparently assumed (correctly, as it turned out) that their children would follow in their footsteps. All parents were big, the kids were big for their ages, I can't comment on their developmental stage at kindergarten, but the parents elected to hold these kids back a year before beginning school. One family had kids who were born in early fall, so okay, that's close. But another family had a kid born in April (!) and although he should've graduated this year from HS, he is now a rising senior and a talented multi-sport athlete attending prep school. I should note that the first family I mentioned also had some of their kids attend prep school after HS (is that prep school? whatever it's called) and before college on the assumption that it would help them with their college athletics. I will also add that their dad is a nutjob/not a nice guy, and this is not, IMO, normal procedure for parenting.

Some kids really do need another year before entering kindergarten but there are cases like I cite above. It really does happen.

I know quite a few families on LI, where the families have 3 (or more) children and the youngest of children are held back; why, because they learned how to game the system from seeing what the other parents did in the older child's years. The reason isn't only in sports but in all aspect of life.

I too have seen these same students be the ones in the honors classes and leadership roles in the schools. Half pan out to be the better athletes (and are also in the top half a year above) but the others could not handle being in the "Proper" grad year athletically.

Parents definitely do this, so it's not bull s%&t...

In any given graduating class how many kids would say are held back from entering school do to birth month, for academics, etc...?

Depends on the size of the class.

In your town, kids school, etc... estimate... Is it 10, 20, 30??

I agree with both sides of this discussion but I just don't think there are a ton of kids not starting school for whatever reason making this age issue such a problem. Are there a few- more than a few- of course. The main problem is the clubs/coaches/organizers playing kids where they don't belong and parents are agreeing to it. the travel directors know the age of the players and they know the rules. Going into a game or tournament with players who are over/under the divison age is the real issue. Teams shouldn't be mixed

WHat does the age of the players have to do with it? The entire point was the grade. If it went by age their would be kids on grade based teams that where NOT eligible to play with that group. People want to freak that TLIO has a kid whos a grade older and was born in Nov but they have a kid whos the same grade buy was born the same year but in October. Thats how football, baseball , soccer, hockey and basketball do it

Well, that's the rub. Lacrosse goes by grad year when every other sport goes by birthdate. Then US Lacrosse throws in that U15 tournament and riots break out (on here, anyway). If you go by birthdate, then at least the club teams are aligned by age.

Parents definitely do this, so it's not bull s%&t...[/quote]
Pretty funny to look back at this discussion from 2013. There were people who legitimately didn’t believe holdbacks purely for lax we’re a real thing.

Pretty funny to look back at this discussion from 2013. There were people who legitimately didn’t believe holdbacks purely for lax we’re a real thing.[/quote]

It is actually fun to look back at this. Holdbacks, reclass, prefirt and not starting kindergarten are at epidemic levels in lacrosse. All sports have some, but lacrosse has the largest percentage playing at a high level High School and Club top teams . Football , Hoops, Baseball have their share, but nothing like lacrosse. Pretty sad, but much of it is just many attempting to catch up to private school holdbacks.

Private schools from MD to MA have been holding back boys for years from kindergarten ( hilarious how they say that is not a holdback) to reclassing many at 8th grade who enroll for first time.

The three best players in the country at 22 didn't play "on age" until this year All played up 1 or 2 years or played varsity as 8th graders school age didn't matter.

That’s not even true. If I guessing correctly on the players considered the very top 2022’s and you’ve seen their birthdates, they have dates that would make them normal or old 2021’s. I’m sure some are on age for 2022, but a bunch aren’t even though they never actually repeated.

Lax is my favorite sport and my sons. They also play travel football and hockey (dropped soccer years ago). All the sports they play at a very high level are based on on birth year, period-with the exception of lacrosse. One of my kids is January bday and one is Dec. Advantage for one, disadvantage for the other but they still made all their respective travel A teams and compete. There is no logical argument for any kids playing YOUTH sports not to be strictly aged based. Once kids get into High school years I have no problem with rules going grade based. My Dec son had to play soccer a year up and hockey and football continually, but it is fair and creates a level playing field. I'm no snowflake. This is just simple, reasonable stuff. Lacrosse rules, or lack there of are a joke.

Nope, The only one I do know age of ( son played with) is a 2021 heldback. Sorry, He very rarely played 2021 in youth..Try again holdback Dad

Everyone knows it is the right thing to do, Unfortunately many lacrosse coaches sons in the top clubs are holdbacks and will be for years to come as many do prefirst or heldback from starting school.

In Youth lax, Hold backs should compete on age like everyone else. If the graduation year grouping is due to recruiters, then keep at HS. Recruiters aren’t looking at elementary or middle school kids.

That totally makes sense and how it should be. However, there is no strong overseeing body and therefore works like the Wild West with club programs making the calls on how things should run. And they can’t help themselves and operate like fools. They see a kid coming into their program that looks like an impact player and know he is either too old or a grade above (but says he’ll be repeating “at some point”), but say hey he’ll make our team better this year and make our program look stronger. And then it happens again and again. And then there’s no going back as far as the clubs go. The strong clubs are self-interested mercenary programs that only care about their success (which generally means one ego maniacal nut job).

This is tough I find my daughter in this predicament. October birthday so she's young for her grade. She plays up and I know that helps her but at times I've found she struggles socially as she isn't as mature as the older girls. This does at times trickle onto the field and both her and I get frustrated. I'm sure in 2 very short years she will be asked to play varsity as a seventh grader. This will be very good for her state stats if she plays varsity for 6yrs. Just I worry about her overall growth and I wouldn't want HS lax to become stale because she played varsity to long.

Where I live, rec lax (spring league) is age (Sep 1st cutoff) and club is obviously birth year...is that the case in other areas?

Um, if they are not really 2022’s then they cannot be called “the 3 best 2022’s”. Let’s call it like we see it- they are really 2021s.

Yes. All club teams are grade based. You can see which teams have the most hold backs. If you look at the rankings of youth club teams the higher their ranking the greater number of hold backs. In other words, the number 1 ranked team has the most hold backs.

Sad but True statement in the world of lacrosse now. Holdbacks / prefirsts rule Youth Lacrosse...so sad..

Lets not worry, USL will come out with another article on diversity or woman in lacrosse to address the issue. lol

Yes, all of this! Young kids playing sports are not focused on playing in college and most will not go on to do so. Their parents shouldn't be worried about "D1 prospects" when they are 8 or 10 or even 12. Yes, the elite players can manage playing up or being competitive against a team of "holdbacks" but for the rest it contributes to making youth sports less enjoyable and beneficial. Let them play on age based teams until high school. Transparency about ages in recruiting would also help. Remember when Under Armour Lax used to list player birth dates but then they stopped because it was getting embarrassing for certain players and regions? Why not include birth month and year with high school recruiting rankings and write ups at least during freshman and sophomore year of high school?

The school cutoff date is 9/1 in my community. Nowadays almost every boy and girl with a July or August birthday waits a year to begin Kindergarten. No one wants their kid to be at a disadvantage in any way because they are the youngest. With the boys it's very common practice with June and May birthdays and sometimes even February, March and April. I have a son who is young for his grade but was not held back. Years ago had a couple kids on his middle school club team who were almost exact same age but a grade behind in private school. Back then the club enforced age cutoffs so the hold backs had to play with the grade they should be in. Those kids committed to play D1 lax at a lower level program but then reclassed AGAIN and traded up to better D1 lax programs. My son is beginning his 3rd year of college and they are the same age but will be freshman in college this fall. Good for them I guess but I wonder how it feels knowing they had to compete against kids 2+ years younger for their achievements.

Other sports seemed to have figured out how to recruit kids while playing age-based. It's just not that hard.

US Lacrosse has no balls or power to fix it...

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Rumor is they finally did.

Any parent that holds their kid back to game the lacrosse world should have their child taken away from them!

I guess you can tell that to all the recent D1 commits to top college programs parents. It did work to their advantage. They will now be playing at some of the top schools and probably have many doors opened to them for jobs by some of the best Fortune 500 companies. So? Are they really “bad parents”? Hmmmm , maybe smart!

US Lacrosse has advocated for and enforce age based already. That isn't the issue. Until the clubs and tournaments do so, it doesn't matter. US Club lacrosse doesn't have the power to change. The new proposal is being pushed by the bug club owners including 3step. 3step now owns M&D and Robinson Sports. Two big clubs and one of the biggest tournament directors. If 3step goes along others may have no choice.

Here you go again .. the reality is majority of these hold backs won’t play d1 so stop with the top recruits nonsense..

I love how parents say their kids have to be held back because they were born late in the year. Assuming that every other kid was born in January so their poor kid is 11 or 12 months younger. Laughable. Most kids are born in August or September so the disadvantage is imagined. Keep sports based on birthyear and aim to play up, not back.

I’m talking about the ones committing now to the top D1 programs! How many are holdbacks?

Can you play 8th grade varsity. Won’t that disqualify you senior year?

It doesn’t really matter if they play. The ops argument is the same regardless. They will have access to top colleges and jobs.

Exactly, it’s getting college doors open that would not be open otherwise! Also, some great job opportunities. Lacrosse is dead end sport other than for that purpose!