BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys High School Lax

I really don't understand how anyone can argue with a straight face that getting recruited for lacrosse was NOT a significant, if not the only reason, how these kids got admitted to a top school.

Facts:
1. Recruited athletes have significantly lower academic profiles compared to non-recruited applicants who matriculate at the same school.
2. Recruited Harvard athlete has an 86% acceptance rate when the overall acceptance rate was 5%. Recruited athletes were 1000 times more likely in getting admitted compared to non-athletes.
These odds were significantly better than other favored categories including donor, single legacy, double legacy, or children of Harvard faculty. The paper actually concluded that being a recruited athlete was by far the best way to get accepted by Harvard.
3. Most recruited athletes score a 3 or lower in Harvard's admissions academic score, which effectively means they have 0 chance of getting in as a regular applicant. Only 1s and 2s make it to the Admissions Committee phase for the acceptance vote.

The only argument that's been made is that lacrosse players weren't specifically looked at. Somehow lacrosse players are different compared to recruited athletes of the other 30-40 non-revenue sports teams?

1500+ SAT and 4.0+ GPA are stellar credentials, but Yale is still a reach for everyone. There's no way of knowing whether she would have been accepted to Yale if she wasn't recruited to play soccer.
I don't know if AI scores are applicable anymore, since SAT subject tests are no longer offered and the schools are now test optional- even for athletes.

Because it's not significant. it's slight.

Based on what factual evidence?

If you have no chance of getting admitted because you are a 3 or 4 on their academic scale, it’s a lot more than a “slight.”

Going from 0% (no sports) to100% probability (recruited athlete) of getting accepted by a top school- it’s not mathematically possible to find a bigger difference in outcome.

Harvard is letting anyone in based on lacrosse.

Factual evidence of what? The fact that Lacrosse players get significant help with admissions or the fact that over the years Ivy Lacrosse Teams would be very pedestrian without their Public School kids?

Isn't that the same for any school?
If the lacrosse coach wants you and you meet the minimum academic standards established by the admissions office (meaning you got a pre-read green light), you are in.

Such an ignorant statement. What happened, Harvard commit some kids with lower grades than your kid?

The kids that commit to Harvard all have good grades, they may have zero chance of getting in on their own but they all have very good grades.

Green is not a very attractive color.

There is no shame in not getting accepted into a top 10 academic school. So many applicants have extraordinary credentials and don't get selected. It's amazing that their average GPA is 4+ and SAT score is over 1500. If you remove their special populations: recruited athlete, donor, legacy, faculty children, under-represented minority, first generation college student (all of whom potentially account more than 1/2 of the admitted class), how much higher would those averages as well as those extracurricular standards get? It really is an impossible academic standard.

I can't speak for lacrosse because I have a son who is not of a recruiting age yet but I do have a son that swims in the Ivy League and he had a 93 average and 1180 on his SAT. There was a ZERO percent chance that he was getting in without swimming. He was an All America in HS and now is doing well academically and athletically but I will reiterate he was not going Ivy without swimming. For athletes the standards are less but that is because they have excelled in other areas and colleges (including the Ivies) want students who bring other things to the school.

Harder for lacrosse kid to to get into a “Little Ivy” NESCAC school like Williams or Amherst than Harvard or Yale. Much smaller schools (+/- 1600 students) and coaches have far less pull…..

What exactly is significant? What are you basing this on?

No it’s slight

What exactly is a yall?

My son went to a showcase in Maryland recently. Beforehand we did some research on some me schools to see who had his intended major and what seemed a good lacrosse fit. He reached out ahead of time to contact coaches saying he’d be there, sent tape, etc. pretty quick afterwards 2 of them reached out and basically said you’d be a good fit, come visit, etc. we then started getting emails from the school about the admissions process, open houses, after we expressed possible interest back. It’s still very early in the school search process, how should we handle those schools that reached out? Are they possible? Maybe but at this point just dipping our toe in. Are the expecting us to get heavily involved in some way? He’s a junior middie (really the faceoff part is what they want). D3 schools. Thanks in advance.

That’s a great story even if it isn’t lacrosse related. Congratulations to your som for both his academic and athletic success in college.

It’s a youse

That is not possible. I read on hear that only football and basketball players receive “significant” assistance with admissions. Ivy Lacrosse players are all incredible students, attended elite private schools and come from families of means. No way a Lacrosse player from one of those dreadful Long Island Public Schools could get into an Ivy with grades like that.

Unless your son has zero interest in attending the school I would have him engage and start the process, see where it goes. If he has a genuine interest in a particular school, make sure all of the coaches at the school know he is legitimately interested. Even if his interest is only moderate he should engage, it’s good experience and when other coaches ask who else he is talking to he will have some schools. Coaches know what they like but they also like validation.

Without lax maybe he would have studied and had the grade for the schools that didn't call. just sayin. Average grades, average schools, average job offers.......

I wasn't the original poster about this, but to be clear unless you go to an IVY or ND, Duke, Virginia etc... you will only receive average job offers. Got it so gentlemen get ready 99% of the boys on here are going to ONLY get average jobs, they will never amount to anything in life.

Above post raises interesting issue about coaches asking who else a kid is talking to. My son is at a D1 school now and my position during his recruitment was essentially “none of your business.” I prepped him to keep it more polite but still very general:“some Big East schools, Patriot League, schools, etc.”. Don’t mention other schools specifically by name. Others may disagree, but that was our approach and the coaches we spoke to never balked.

You read it right!

If you are talking to schools that are at the same level or better (lacrosse) than the school that is asking, definitely name the schools. If they are lower tier than the school that is asking be vague.

What is the minimum gpa/sat that an ivy will consider? And are there any scholarship $’s available for lacrosse players? Being from LI, I’m sure that absolutely no one qualifies for any financial aid. Not looking to pay a 70k sticker price for an ivy.

In the past (pre-Covid) the minimum Academic Index score in order to be accepted was 171.

Ivy’s do not offer athletic scholarships.

Ivy’s offer extremely generous need based financial aid and there are many from Long Island who qualify especially if they have multiple kids in college.

IMHO, if your kid gets recruited by Ivy League schools he should at the very least explore the opportunities.

My son got into an Ivy as a lax player with a 1250 SAT. We pay $28k for an $80k school. Family income is $200k and have one other child in HS. This is a better scholarship than he would have received at a non Ivy as it is the equivalent of about 65%

And if your HS age student enters college when your older son is still in college the cost of 28k will go down to 14K…. For many families, Ivy need based aid is better than an athletic scholarship.

Sounds like top tier recruits can get into Ivy League Schools with somewhere around 1200 or equivalent ACT and approximately 90 GPA….

Where's the guy(s) who said that playing sports (specifically lacrosse) only SLIGHTLY improves your chance of getting admitted to an Ivy?

Must have missed the 90 GPA......

I’m telling my 2024 son that since he already has a 93 average and is on track to score a 33 on his ACT, he doesn’t have to play lacrosse anymore because the slight advantage it is giving him to help him get into a top school is no longer necessary.

I’m telling my 2024 son that since he already has a 93 average and is on track to score a 33 on his ACT, he doesn’t have to play lacrosse anymore because the slight advantage it is giving him to help him get into a top school is no longer necessary.[/quote]

Sounds like a great idea. Get him a tutor to raise the GPA and ACT, it’s a much greater advantage.

Thought the standard was considerably higher. Can anyone else confirm that? That pretty much sums up my kid. My family income is 200k with no one else in college. Already had a kid go through college, and I never qualified for a dime of financial aid. There was no recruiting involved and the schools we looked at certainly were no where near ivy, but thought all financial aid award/criteria was pretty much the same. Apparently ivys are different?

That is definitely not the norm for an Ivy and I would venture is an exception to the rule. Also all Ivy Schools are need based financial aid and require FAFSA forms to be submitted

You are correct. The standards are higher and aid for Ivys is need based. Most aid from other schools is Merit Based Scholarships so grades will matter.

Also depends on how much revenue a sport brings into a college. Rules for football recruiting are drastically different than other sports .

The stronger the school is academically the less (if any at all) merit based aid will be available.

Ivy admissions for recruited athletes can be for some much different than the requirements for regular students. The requirements can and do vary significantly for recruited athletes within the same recruiting class. The average AI (or whatever they are using now) for the class must be close to the average AI for the entire student body. To simplify, if they were only looking at SAT at Princeton is 1450 than the team average must be close to that (they used to say team average had to be within one standard deviation of the campus average).

The studs can get in with much lower grades than the regular students. Some recruits will need to have grades similar to the average and some recruits will need to have grades that are better (perfect or near perfect) than the campus average.

Go to each schools Financial Aid Calculator and punch in you info, you will get an approximate net cost.

Not really.

I’ve heard that some ivys are more lenient than others when it comes to athletes. I know of a kid that was accepted to Cornel with very low 90’s GPA (not sure of SAT) and he was basically paying SUNY instate tuition. Think I heard that Yale also was easier to get into for athletes. The Cornel info came directly from the dad. Not sure about rest of schools. Know anything about that?