BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Long Island Pride Lacrosse

People have legitimate complaints, but I thought I'd throw out a compliment ...

My son's 7/8 team played three games in the 7/8 age group, against all 7/8 teams. One LI team and two NJ teams. All three games were good, the officiating was good, and most of the fields were in good shape. Been to Pridefest three times with two different clubs, and it was well run from my perspective each time.

There really is only so much a tourney can do if teams are signing up with kids that are too old. Until lax starts requiring birth certificates this will continue to happen. All tournaments suffer from this, especially when the standard is different from one to the other (age based vs. grade based). In turn, the clubs (and we) suffer, as some teams are formed to cover U13 or U15 age groups and others by specific graduation year.

There were more teams in prior years, and I think Pridefest (like a lot of tournaments) will need to add a championship round or attendance will probably continue to fall off. The landscape of summer lax has changed and clubs want to advertise results. Some of the charity tournaments like the JDRF and Gallagher may be able to keep the festival format for a little longer, but I think even they will have to change eventually.

I agree 100%

Ridge Futures 6/7th grade team played 5th grade Tomahawks. When speaking with a Ridge parent about the age difference they said that because they had some 6th graders on the team they can play 5/6th grade division. Tomahawks are a straight 5th grade team. Also, somehow Viper 5th grade played Recon 2018. Also a two year difference. If the organizers stuck with US Lacrosse age guidelines the brackets would be 4/5th which is U11, 6/7th which is U13.

JDRF had over 160 teams this year and Gallagher had plenty. They are both run very well and have not seen a decline in teams. Pridefest was has been run poorly and has had a decline because of it.
I disagree 100%.

Recon u13 was asked on Friday to be an emergency fill in for a garden city team that pulled out at the last minute. They didn't know what age group they were put in until after they said ok. They also played with no body checks and told th e oposing coach before the game. Trying to do the best in a bad situation.

BOTC has a great deal of respect for the Recon Lacrosse program both on and off the field.

No one is blaming Recon for the snafu in the schedule

Anybody know what happend with the Bethpage Vipers JV level . I heard there was a bench clearing brawl and parents were out of control?

The solo cup crew?

Yes, there was a brawl and things did get heated with the parents. It is sad cause no matter who "started it" people need to start showing a little class. Unfortunately, it seems like a certain programs name keeps popping up lately and not for the better.

So what if some grown ups want to have a beverage or two at their kids game, what's the big deal.............another impressive showing by The Vipers.

I'am from Bethpage and appalled from what I'am hearing. We are not like this. Bethpage is a great neighborhood and close knit community. I apologize on behalf of these people. From what I hear they are a very arrogant group of parents. So I guess that's where the kids get it.

The other teams and ages seem to do fine with no issues.

Not sure what the story is at the JV level. I know they have a great player who eventually starts getting cheap shots from the D in an effort to slow him down. That much I've seen. And I've heard parents yelling to their kids to "take him out" and "light him up" etc. I have not witnessed brawls or the other things mentioned, but it isnlt hard to imagine that the nonsense starts boiling over.

On the other hand, there are one or two people on here with an axe to grind, and will take every opportunity to invent issues and revisit problems they alone raised. Even to the point Cage had to step in. I guess this is the next installment.

Cage stepped in due to the fact that there was no way to prove what was in the red solo cups, guess the world will never learn the answer to that one. Nonetheless, there is still no excuse for the behavior exhibited by some in that organization. It is amazing how these issues keep popping up with every team they play. They should sue every tournament director for always scheduling them to play against teams with dirty players and obnoxious parents that are always starting trouble.

The issues with the Vipers are pretty much isolated to the JV team. That is one of the only Viper teams that is entirely made up of Bethpage players. The parents on that team are just as bad as the Express parents.

... said the guy who has now ignored that warning twice on this thread.

What remains in this thread is the material AFTER we removed postings that never made it to the board due to unsubstantiated claims. Those posters have been permanently banned from participating in the forums going forward. As stated in the BOTC Board Rules, posting is a privilege, not a right.

BOTC has a call into a representative from the Viper Lacrosse program for commentary on the litany of issues that have been brought up this Spring/Summer season regarding the entire program.

There does not seem to be any denying the fact that there was some type of altercation including players from the Viper JV program.

Our question will be which players have been suspended for the remainder of the season and/or next several games. Further, if the team has an insufficient number of players as a result, will the team withdraw?

BOTC believes that the situation should be treated as seriously as if this were a High School Varsity violation.

Cage I have played against other aged (not JV) Vipers. They are not like this, just the opposite, very humble and appreciative of players who can play (who play against them).


Not sure what the story is at the JV level. I know they have a great player who eventually starts getting cheap shots from the D in an effort to slow him down. That much I've seen. And I've heard parents yelling to their kids to "take him out" and "light him up" etc. I have not witnessed brawls or the other things mentioned, but it isnlt hard to imagine that the nonsense starts boiling over.

On the other hand, there are one or two people on here with an axe to grind, and will take every opportunity to invent issues and revisit problems they alone raised. Even to the point Cage had to step in. I guess this is the next installment. [/quote]

Dear Readers : A highly trusted friend of BOTC who is NOT associated with either the Bethpage Vipers or their opponent this weekend happened to be at the field for the Long Island Pride tournament this weekend. We have received the following report regarding the incident at the field. In summary, it was not one of the finer moments for either program.

this photographer has it pretty accurate however: all I can say is that as a parent watching the game,word of mouth has a way of making the story much bigger than it was. soon they will be saying viper lax hires pros to play for them. flat out silly!!! yes a bad penalty resulted in retaliation which resulted in a brawl & some parents rushing the field in an attempt to break it up. what was not said is the majority of parents stayed on the sideline hoping order would be restored which it was. only some parents went on the field to help.to point out fact the event escalated when one non viper parent in camouflage shorts chose to fight kids instead of break up the brawl. this made matters worse. a parent should never rush the field and certainly never assault a child. what has not been said is that most (80%) stayed on the sideline & those on the field tried to break things up because nobody wants their kid hurt.viper lacrosse is a great program and the jv kids will be a group of kids playing quality lax for years to come. when we played 3/4 & 5/6 and so on we had to deal with teams that seemed bigger than us at times but you learn to suck it up and just play to get better. these kids should not be labeled with these negative remarks for the choice few that did not act in a responsible way. we are not the red cup crew and we do not bring in kids form other districts to cheat & win meaningless tournaments. we are a not for profit organization organized for kids to play quality competitive lax . its for the kids. the viper kids are playing together for 5 years now and it shows in their quality lacrosse. they win some and loose some and from this parents perspective its usually the parents of some of these for profit boutique clubs paying $1800 for their child to play that get upset when a lesser known team like viper comes in and schools them. parents need to grow up and shut up and let the kids play.the kids should not get labeled unfairly

Thank you for that, parents hitting kids is un acceptable and discusting, it was a viper player who was punched by a parent on the other team and a viper parent pulled this ADULT off of the player

Dear Readers : After an internal review and discussion within the Bethpage Viper program, below you will find their formal statement.

What happened at the Pride Fest between the Viper Team and the Turf Island team was unfortunate. Its also unfortunate how parents react on the sidelines also. And you know the kids hear it on the field. My son who is a member of the 7/8 team played on Sat and against one team I heared parents yelling lay him out. Why would a parent say that? Is that what they teach kids these days. One of our kids took a cross check to the neck area and the parent was yelling nice hit while the kid was on the floor. Someone said are you serious and he was like he was going for the ball. It ws a legal hit. Someone else asked what if that was your kid and he went silent.Its crazy. I like physical play but thats uncalled for.
I heard about the story from several people about the cheap shot. I know I'm from Viper but I'm not in any way choosing sides. I wasn't there. I might be a little off. Correct me if I'm wrong. It was because the Viper kid won the face off and the Turf Island kid grabbed his stick then grabbed his legs. Their was no call at that point so the Viper kid slashed his head(That's uncalled for in any case) then the Turf Island wing ran across and jumped on the kids back and that's when the fighting and all [lacrosse] broke out. During the fighting I heard that a Turf Island parent was punching a 15 year old in the back of the head. At that point the parents started to fight.
I'm not sure what is happening to the kid that started the fight but I know that's not what we preach from our organization. Viper is an Non Profit organization that give kids who can't afford some of the other organization fees a place to play travel ball. I've had nothing but good experiences from my sons 3 years playing for them. So please don't bad mouth an organization if you don't know anything about them.
And the red solo cups are everywhere at Lacrosse Tournaments. Wake up and look around and you will realize its not just the Viper parents.

Is this the same Viper team that got caught with older kids at the Forsberg tournament last month?

Actually the team that won the JV at Forsberg with 8th graders playing up.

Yes!

Is Turf Island going to be asked to post an explanation? Any cheap shot aside, it appears their boys started the fight and their parent(s) were the ones getting physical with the kids and other parents. What are the Turf Island directors doing about this? What are the repercussions for the one parent (and his son) who seems to have crossed well over the line?

It's the same team that was moved up by the Forseberg staff to the A bracket that knew the team had 2 10th graders and 2 8th graders. Yes that's the same team.

Your son's HS team lost in a final to 8th graders? That's got to be embarrassing.

Who cares the 8th graders played up... It goes by your oldest player... And if they qualify for that bracket...

That's funny. If you're still ranting a month later, you must have been a true lunatic on that car ride home! So, your kid's HS A team lost in an A bracket to a B level team playing up a bracket with 8th graders? And you actually feel the need to draw attention to this? What "great" JV squad managed to lose that game, so we know what tryouts to avoid in the coming months.

no skin in the game.. just sick of people saying my 8th graders played up... yeah with older boys... your supposed to if you choose to play with older boys.

It's good to know that Viper has good intentions, but that isn't always enough. Viper was asked what are they going to do to remedy the bad behavior that has taken place over the last few weeks but as per the official statement it looks like a discussion is all that will take place. Is it possible that one of the problems could be one of the volunteer directors?Also, there are more than 1-3 bad apples in the organization, if that were the case it would be easy to remedy the situation via some type of suspension or by removing them from the organization completely. It should also be noted that almost every post by a Viper, no matter how even handed they try to be, ultimately ends up blaming the other guy. In my opinion It is quite obvious that there is a problem accepting responsibility for their own actions. The only thing that Viper can control is themselves. Needless to say I'm sure that there are many good people within the organization that are being lumped in with the bad eggs and it is unfortunate.

The Bethpage Viper program representatives have spoken with BOTC in detail on this subject. What makes you think that you are entitled to any further explanation? If you want to know the details, e-mail us at cagesage@backofthecage.com with your phone number and we will call you and explain the entire remediation procedure in place.

Give us your name and who you are challenging here.

There has been no blame of the "other guy" and if that is how you interpretted the reports and accounts posted, you are clearly mistaken.

Your anonymous opinion means absolutely ZERO.

Yes, there are many standup individuals in the Viper organization.

It's amazing how everybody keeps posting Anonymous. When you post something tell everybody who you are and who your child plays for. Then everybody can make their own decision based on who it's coming from. The issue has been handled internally and the public ANNONYMOUS posters really don't need to know. Let the kids play and all the crap end. Enjoy your next tournament.

I have a daughter, so i have no allegiance in this fight. All I read is how bad Viper J.V. is, but I can't help but think Turf Island also must step up and take some responsibility, seems both teams are at fault, or am I wrong? If either teem seems to be pointing a finger, and trying to escape blame its Turf Island, No statement from the director or coach.

Have you read this thread?

Clearly, you have not read this thread with the reports and statements.

Why do you feel you are owed a statement from anyone? Once again, write us at cagesage@backofthecage.com if you want more details.

I have now read through all the posts on this topic twice. What I am reading is how bad Viper J.V. is which seems to be coming from non Viper people/ how other viper age groups are ok, from viper ,and other clubs/ a first hand account from a neutral source/ a statement from Viper/ and how Viper cheats and are cheep shot artists / To me, The statement from Viper says they are taking responsibility for the actions of there players in what was obviously an ugly scene. Nothing from Turf Island, and from what has been posted, it was one of there parents that through a punch at a child. Seeing as this site now has readers from all over the lacrosse community, not just long Island, and this ugly incident is being read by all of them, I have to say that Yes as a Long Island lacrosse parent that travels to other states and have to listen to other parents lump us all together I think we are all owed an explanation from Turf Island's director. Thats just my opinion, I'm sure you will box this into your little blurbs and tear it up.

BOTC has no intention of chasing this issue further. We have contacted parties, received their public statements, private actions being taken, and have shared the relevant points with our lacrosse community.

BOTC is passing the torch to you, dear poster. Call Turf Island, ask for their director, and tell him that you are owed an explanation for what took place at this tournament. (After all, you have every right to demand action from the Turf Island Oilers for a game in which you did not have an interest.)