BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys High School Lax

Many times an Ivy or top program will tell a kid to delay graduating or to do a post grad year because there is no spot for them given the current roster. As a 2021 he would not be attending Princeton, would not be a top player and would mix in with hundreds of other kids trying to get those few top d1 spots. Holding back turns a good to average athlete when playing proper age into a superstar.

So, this definitely makes it unfair advantages to those that can actually afford this type of scenario! Rich kids definitely get unfair advantages and opportunities in this sport. Once again… this starts from the younger ages as well. holdbacks do have advantages that seem a bit unfair and elitist. Sad but true

Focus your concern with your own kid. Wasting time and effort relating to somone else kid.

Many hurt ego's

This has nothing to do with any kid. It’s a commentary on the sport itself. It’s an elitist sport, and with the holdback situation it only makes it more so.

There is nothing wrong with holdbacks/colleges delaying entry so that a kid will play college at age 20-24. The problem is not playing on-age in youth lacrosse. For the equivalent of 9th grade and below it should be based on birth year. After that, the elite players can go into a "junior" system, while the rest can still play on age. This is how I would set it up at least. For instance, this past summer I would have had a 2006 division, 2007 division, etc. Within such, I would have AA, A, B or whatever makes sense. Kids can always play up (a 2008 can play with the 2007s if that is what the parents and the team wants). For 2005 and higher, the best will be on a junior team at junior events playing with and against kids up through 2002. For kids not at that level of skill/athleticism - there can exist continued birth year divisions. Obviously, college scouting (at least for D1) will be at the junior events.

This is an absolutely ridiculous comment. So he’s an average player but is a superstar because he delayed? Please stop the silliness, these are great lacrosse players, regardless. You’re trying to make yourself feel better

There is no sense in trying to fix anything. Just do what you think gives your son the best opportunities.

40-50 years ago lacrosse was considered the sport of the privileged. That’s because the game was only played at prep schools. Fast forward 40 years and the sport is still the sport of the privileged, but for a different reason: The money grab known as youth sports. Club lacrosse to be so specific. Pay to play. Pay 7K per year just for your basic club and local travel. Cha Ching. Throw in specialized training. Cha Ching. Showcases and more hotels. Cha Ching. All star events, hotel and travel. Cha Ching. Off season tournies and more showcases and air fare. Cha Ching. Prep schools. Cha Ching. How about an added year at prep school for all you hold back lovers. CHA CHING. and if you choose not to do any of this, your son is left behind. Lacrosse: More now than ever, the sport of the ultra privileged. Quite disgusting, actually.

You’re totally missing the point, DA. What if someone can’t afford to send their kid to prep school for 5 years. That’s 350K. Or pay 10K per year for lacrosse. How do I give him your “ best opportunities” without your truckloads of cash?? How is that inner city kid with all that naturally talent and zero means going to fit into that model??

Regarding your system, who will make these determinations regarding all the particulars. Just remember, lacrosse is a dead-end sport. Enjoy the time playing, find a school for your kid which offers a career field he can pursue afterward. All this posturing, leveraging makes no sense to me.

Majority of people can’t afford what you’re writing. What’s your silly point?

Kids play this sport to have better opportunities to get into better schools than they may have with just good grades! So, this is not a dead end sport! It truly dies open doors. It offers great opportunities on getting into a better school, where you may get “connections” and the education to get that dream job!

So. Making it more fair to more kids on the way up (youth) is truly in the best interest of all the kids and the sport!! Right now, 10% have unfair advantages and opportunities due to their financial standings. Once again, it makes it elitist! Let’s do the right thing and make it “on age” at the youth levels! Make it more fair and give the other 90% of the kids playing the same opportunity!

US Lacrosse should change the rules and make determinations about age based. They make World Series and Nationals age based now.

It makes sense. He would be an average player if he was playing against kids his age in the 2021 group but he becomes a superstar playing against the 2023s. Why hold back or re-class if you can also dominate against the older kids? Obviously you hold back or re-class to gain a competitive advantage that you would not have against kids your own age.

You know nothing about sports.

Either you’re an elite athlete or you’re not. One year or two doesn’t make you elite. Maybe better but not great. Stop trying to make your sons shortcomings more than just that, you’re embarrassing yourself.

Kids play because the love the game. Parents are the only ones thinking about the nonsense you’re spouting.

You will never convince a holdback parent that the little superstar would not have the same success if playing against kids the same age. Don’t even bother. People are just pointing out the obvious and the holdback parents having no response will come back with insults and wrong assumptions about people on here that they don’t even know. If you want to holdback your kid to get an advantage that is fine but don’t be mad when people always say “ but he is older”. The fact is he is older and people will always point that out because it is true.

One thing people are not taking into consideration about "hold backs" is that some of the prep schools are approaching the kids at tournaments. If the school is willing to make it financially available for your child to attend and excel at academics and lacrosse then why not. The boys are in high school and play all different grades, it would be the same if they went straight to college and started as a freshman...They are still playing boys much older and stronger.

The holdback thing is just a sign of the times. How many top college kids wrote their college essays...on their own? We live in an age of intense helicopter parenting. For parents that are very into their kids, the sky is the limit. Hold back, summer studies at Harvard or Stanford in the 8th grade, black belt in karate by 4th grade, concert pianist by middle school, SAT tutors, etc. What separates the men from the boys, if such a term can be used nowadays, is when the kid has the talent and drive. You can push a kid all you want, if the talent and drive aren't there, he can play at some level of his craft, but not at the top level. You can fool a lot of coaches and once in awhile you'll see a kid make a top team he shouldn't have made, but eventually that gets figured out. Let's just say many of these college coaches aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Enjoy the ride.

Your example is different from a kid who is always the oldest. He gets an advantage playing club when the colleges are watching being the oldest. Play it out. A kid holds back for a reason. Usually to get an advantage because the parent does not like how the kid competes with kids his own age. So the kid reclass and now playing club against younger kids and now excels. If he does not excel enough he drops back two years. This does not make the kid a great player. He is just older. Now you have a 20 year old freshman in college. If as argued the kid is great playing against any age one would expect that the older kid would dominate as a 20 year old freshman just as he did his senior year of high school and last year of club when he was by far the oldest. However most hold back freshman do not start and certainty do not dominate as a freshman. Being a 20 year old freshman which is the age of a junior he should have junior player stats as they are at their peak. However most hold backs do not even play freshman or sophomore year. Remember most hold backs as juniors in college still can't get on the field. So you have the majority of hold backs who dominated club and high school ball playing as the oldest and can't get on the field in college playing kids their own age. Now some do excel from freshman year and every year in college. But that is the exception. Most hold backs do not dominate playing kids their own age as they did when they were the oldest playing club. This compels the conclusion that the kid was great because he was older. I don't blame kids for holding back. If you can go from being low d1 or not being able to play d1 at all competing at the correct age and holding back means getting into an ivy league or a top school that is better than some ivies it is tough to pass up. If everyone was willing to hold back there would be no advantage. The hold back parents know this and make there kids better by holding back. Some choose not to hold back. We do what is best for our kid and should not care what others say.

It also comes down to financial means! One can only choose the advantageous situation if one can afford it. That’s what makes this the problem. Most can not afford the private school “hold back “ scenario. So, it benefits the few who can. Is this “rich get richer” scenario?

Dude, do some research please, you are writing nothing more than your opinion, and it is completely wrong.

The only real time holdbacks is a problem for kids is pre 8th grade. A year difference is huge between 6 and 12 or 13. in HS, who really cares, but at the youth level it should be addressed.

Research was done. Top players who graduate college who were held back make 350 a week working summer lax camps. Top players who graduated when they were actually supposed to, working those same camps make 320 a week. I’m so holding my kid back. I think it’s worth it.

Still missing the point! It’s about opportunity in getting into a better college for better opportunities than you could without the sport ! It’s Not about the Lacrosse!

Looking for a person / kid / company to do a highlight video ?

you can use Hudl..

It is obvious that each person posting has strong opinions on the hold back issue. These discussions will not change anyone's opinions and show one side is wrong and the other correct and talking about it here is not meant to change anyone's opinions. I think we all know that. I think the people who post here on this issue can be split into a few categories. There are some who criticize hold backs because those hold backs in those parent's minds took their kid's spot on a d1 college roster, they got less money from a college, did not make a club team, they are making excuses for their own kid's short comings etc. There are also people who dislike hold backs, even though the hold backs have no impact on their own kid, because they feel that it is a cowards way to get better and instead of working hard to be the best they decided to take the easy way and improve by holding back. This a disgrace to some people especially those parents who were athletes themselves, their kid is a great athlete playing the proper age or both. On the other side there are parents who hold a kid back to get a competitive advantage because the kid is not doing as well lacrosse wise as those parents would like playing with kids the same age. There are also parents who hold a kid back for academic, social or other legitimate reason not associated with lacrosse. All those people posting here on this issue know which category they fall under that makes them feel so strong on this issue. Be honest with yourself on which category you fall in. If you are honest with yourself you will be able to understand the other sides position much better than you do now. If you are not honest with yourself you will never understand the other sides position and you will continue being delusional like most parents out there.

Imagine if Tonya Harding could have had a jury of holdback parents judging her. Anything to get the advantage is acceptable. Good job and good luck on your future olympic quest!!!!

The only people who care are us. Anyone outside lax, careless about a kid being held back for whatever reason, let alone lax

Problem is, parents think their kids are way better than they actually are. Therefore when Junior doesn’t get All County and a spot on the Duke roster they blame holdbacks, but it’s just the kids lacrosse ability holding him back.

Sign of the times. It looks like Rutgers has 15 5th year players on their 2022 roster.

You are correct there are some who criticize holdbacks because they think their kid got cheated by an older kid. But there are also many who dislike holdbacks because the parents believe that holdbacks took the easy way out and got better by holding back by making themselves older rather than working hard to succeed. I don’t think you can say all parents who criticize holdbacks do it for the same reasons. I think probably more do it because they believe the hold back is taking a short cut to get better. Also many believe it is a form of cheating even though under the current rules it is not cheating.There certainly is no one size fits all universal answer to explain everyone’s motive for criticizing holdbacks.

I don’t think we should be criticizing the holdbacks, and/or parents. They are not breaking any rules or cheating. However, the rules do seem to create unfair opportunity and advantages to some, that are able to afford to take advantage of them. The rules need to be changed.

We should be criticizing the people/organization who make the rules for youth lacrosse. We need to Send the message to them. I think people who are complaining on here, hope somebody who has influence reads BOTC? 😆

Crazy. They also asked their 2021’s to Do a PG year somewhere. Welcome to the new normal.

Not much difference between college and pro lacrosse now.

Rutgers is a decent school and seems to be getting much better in lacrosse but to do a PG year to go there seems insane. There are a lot of similar academic schools out there where if you can make Rutgers you could probably start at the better academic school. They do very well in the academic ratings for US news who gives a lot of points for diversity of the school but does not do very well in other rankings that looks at student outcome and salary. To do a PG year you should probably be looking at a top 30 academic school where there are only a few options for a better academic opportunity. There are too many similar schools to Rutgers to justify doing a PG year. But lacrosse parents probably Will go for it.

Rutgers only ranks high on many college ranking reports because of their high level of diversity. Tons of better options out there to do a PG year for Rutgers. If there really is 15 5th year players, that would field the entire team and leave many with minimal playing time. If they are transferring as a 5th year, they will definitely be receiving more playing time than the younger players.