Forums20
Topics3,802
Posts400,095
Members2,638
|
Most Online62,980 Feb 6th, 2020
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Are teams coaches or programs helping them with recruiting at all? I think it depends on your coach What does that even mean?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
There are two newer LI teams I was told about that have open space - Laxon and Ohana. We just moved to LI from the city and we’re trying to navigate the travel world since it wasn’t really available in our old neighborhood as it is in Nassau. Can someone tell me more about these programs or can others recommend some programs? Lax on is a very good group that has shown an ability to train and get the most of its players. The Coaches are all non parents who have played and coached at the highest level. They are new to the LI travel scene but not new to high level training or coaching. Not sure of your players experience level but it’s worth a look.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Ramos did very well this past season. Definitely a solid team. Kildare is definitely behind them in talent and depth of the bench. Kildare picking up some very solid players from other teams! So, wait until the new season Would be nice for Kildare to tell parents about that so that we know we need to find another team. Kildare is mommy ball at it’s worst. Their only goal since moving to Yellow Jackets was to get their kids on Weiner.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
There are two newer LI teams I was told about that have open space - Laxon and Ohana. We just moved to LI from the city and we’re trying to navigate the travel world since it wasn’t really available in our old neighborhood as it is in Nassau. Can someone tell me more about these programs or can others recommend some programs? How old is your daughter? And experience level? 2024 and she played with a New Jersey team while we were in the city. Are laxon and Ohana suitable if she’s looking to play in college?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
There are two newer LI teams I was told about that have open space - Laxon and Ohana. We just moved to LI from the city and we’re trying to navigate the travel world since it wasn’t really available in our old neighborhood as it is in Nassau. Can someone tell me more about these programs or can others recommend some programs? How old is your daughter? And experience level? 2024 and she played with a New Jersey team while we were in the city. Are laxon and Ohana suitable if she’s looking to play in college? Yes for Lax on. The directors have strong experience coaching HS and college lax. Both have strong relationships with college coaches because of prior experience and work they did with their recent 2022 team. They have done an extremely impressive job in a short period of time. They only had that 2022 team for less than a season and look what they did for them. My niece felt forgotten on another club and did very well in the end. 2024 will be their next team and they only run one per age group. Give them a call and see if it’s a fit. Good luck!
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Ramos did very well this past season. Definitely a solid team. Kildare is definitely behind them in talent and depth of the bench. Kildare picking up some very solid players from other teams! So, wait until the new season Would be nice for Kildare to tell parents about that so that we know we need to find another team. Kildare is mommy ball at it’s worst. Their only goal since moving to Yellow Jackets was to get their kids on Weiner. Are their kids “moving” to wiener ?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Is the Kildare mom coaches kid going to Wiener?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
There are two newer LI teams I was told about that have open space - Laxon and Ohana. We just moved to LI from the city and we’re trying to navigate the travel world since it wasn’t really available in our old neighborhood as it is in Nassau. Can someone tell me more about these programs or can others recommend some programs? How old is your daughter? And experience level? 2024 and she played with a New Jersey team while we were in the city. Are laxon and Ohana suitable if she’s looking to play in college? Yes for Lax on. The directors have strong experience coaching HS and college lax. Both have strong relationships with college coaches because of prior experience and work they did with their recent 2022 team. They have done an extremely impressive job in a short period of time. They only had that 2022 team for less than a season and look what they did for them. My niece felt forgotten on another club and did very well in the end. 2024 will be their next team and they only run one per age group. Give them a call and see if it’s a fit. Good luck! So obvious what’s happening here
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Ramos did very well this past season. Definitely a solid team. Kildare is definitely behind them in talent and depth of the bench. Kildare picking up some very solid players from other teams! So, wait until the new season Would be nice for Kildare to tell parents about that so that we know we need to find another team. Kildare is mommy ball at it’s worst. Their only goal since moving to Yellow Jackets was to get their kids on Weiner. I really don’t understand why parents are so obsessed with their kids playing there. Is it the politics and most of the girls sitting the bench? I get that everyone goes crazy over the rankings but do you brag about the rankings as your child had nothing to do with getting the team there? That must make your child feel great. Does it help your child’s development of the game by watching it or playing? Does it help their self esteem to travel every weekend to maybe see a couple of minutes of field time? I understand that 12-14 girls and coaches daughters see the field and will get the exposer so what happens to the rest of them? Do you just settle with your daughter being on a top team but not playing. How will they been seen if they don’t play. Do they just get scholarships because they are wearing certain jersey? Parents need to put their egos away and find the right team for their daughter so she can excel, play and do her best! So many people yr after yr make the same mistake and unfortunately by the time they wake up the stars and friends of the team have committed and the rest are scrambling with no help from the top club.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
There are two newer LI teams I was told about that have open space - Laxon and Ohana. We just moved to LI from the city and we’re trying to navigate the travel world since it wasn’t really available in our old neighborhood as it is in Nassau. Can someone tell me more about these programs or can others recommend some programs? How old is your daughter? And experience level? 2024 and she played with a New Jersey team while we were in the city. Are laxon and Ohana suitable if she’s looking to play in college? Look at LaxOn or Jesters. But, it may be too late? As I think tryouts have already happened on those clubs. Maybe reach out to the clubs, ask if any spots are open and ask for an evaluation/tryout. If they think your daughter can benefit their team , it’s a possibility you could still get on a team there? Plus, when YJ tryouts happen, some of the girls they think they have, they may not. They May then have open spots on rosters??
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Ramos did very well this past season. Definitely a solid team. Kildare is definitely behind them in talent and depth of the bench. Kildare picking up some very solid players from other teams! So, wait until the new season Would be nice for Kildare to tell parents about that so that we know we need to find another team. Kildare is mommy ball at it’s worst. Their only goal since moving to Yellow Jackets was to get their kids on Weiner. So, did the girl who had the mommy coach on Kildare Finally break through to the Wiener A team this year? Couple years of getting non-stop playing time in games, could be paying off? Just in time for recruiting years! Maybe “mommy coach” is smarter than peeps give her credit for. Lol The girl wouldn’t have had all that attention / playing time over the last few years if she was on the “A” team. Was better having her own team. Kudos
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
There are two newer LI teams I was told about that have open space - Laxon and Ohana. We just moved to LI from the city and we’re trying to navigate the travel world since it wasn’t really available in our old neighborhood as it is in Nassau. Can someone tell me more about these programs or can others recommend some programs? How old is your daughter? And experience level? 2024 and she played with a New Jersey team while we were in the city. Are laxon and Ohana suitable if she’s looking to play in college? Look at LaxOn or Jesters. But, it may be too late? As I think tryouts have already happened on those clubs. Maybe reach out to the clubs, ask if any spots are open and ask for an evaluation/tryout. If they think your daughter can benefit their team , it’s a possibility you could still get on a team there? Plus, when YJ tryouts happen, some of the girls they think they have, they may not. They May then have open spots on rosters?? If you’re looking for an A team I believe jesters A is filled. Laxon has been consistently posting supplemental tryout info which leads me to believe they are in need of more players.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Jesters A team just filled up their spots with B players from 91. Laxon has a 2024 for team , but they charge double what everyone else charges , I think it’s due to the strength and conditioning trainers they hire and recruiting assistance. Ohana is fairy new and not much info on them . Good luck
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Jesters A team just filled up their spots with B players from 91. Laxon has a 2024 for team , but they charge double what everyone else charges , I think it’s due to the strength and conditioning trainers they hire and recruiting assistance. Ohana is fairy new and not much info on them . Good luck Teams prob. Won’t be totally set until all the tryouts have been completed.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Jesters A team just filled up their spots with B players from 91. Laxon has a 2024 for team , but they charge double what everyone else charges , I think it’s due to the strength and conditioning trainers they hire and recruiting assistance. Ohana is fairy new and not much info on them . Good luck There are only 2 old 91 players on that roster and they are kids who were offered A spots at 91. Not sure where you’re getting your info from but the rest are returners, elevate, and top guns kids.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Jesters A team just filled up their spots with B players from 91. Laxon has a 2024 for team , but they charge double what everyone else charges , I think it’s due to the strength and conditioning trainers they hire and recruiting assistance. Ohana is fairy new and not much info on them . Good luck Teams prob. Won’t be totally set until all the tryouts have been completed. I think teams that had tryouts are filled completely ?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Clearly you don’t know your ButtHead from your elbow, let alone the truth.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Such a witty response, your clearly upset your kid didn’t make the team 😂
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Jesters A team just filled up their spots with B players from 91. Laxon has a 2024 for team , but they charge double what everyone else charges , I think it’s due to the strength and conditioning trainers they hire and recruiting assistance. Ohana is fairy new and not much info on them . Good luck There are only 2 old 91 players on that roster and they are kids who were offered A spots at 91. Not sure where you’re getting your info from but the rest are returners, elevate, and top guns kids. Fake News Again!!! Nobody offered a Team 91 A spot left to play for the Jesters.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Why is it that you even care?? I would find a hobby, something outside maybe. Clearly you need something else more to do than just looking at your phone trying to figure out what other clubs are doing. Sad actually.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Why is it that you even care?? I would find a hobby, something outside maybe. Clearly you need something else more to do than just looking at your phone trying to figure out what other clubs are doing. Sad actually. Maybe you should take your own advice and find a new hobby and way to market yourself. We are all just responding to your nonsense. Please stop.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Why is it that you even care?? I would find a hobby, something outside maybe. Clearly you need something else more to do than just looking at your phone trying to figure out what other clubs are doing. Sad actually. Maybe you should take your own advice and find a new hobby and way to market yourself. We are all just responding to your nonsense. Please stop. God god. I am not even involved with the above clubs you are talking about. Just an outsider looking in. Think you may need more of a life, other than watching what other 2024 clubs are doing. Seems your world actually agitates you a little too much. Lighten up .....have a Snickers
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Why is it that you even care?? I would find a hobby, something outside maybe. Clearly you need something else more to do than just looking at your phone trying to figure out what other clubs are doing. Sad actually. Maybe you should take your own advice and find a new hobby and way to market yourself. We are all just responding to your nonsense. Please stop. God god. I am not even involved with the above clubs you are talking about. Just an outsider looking in. Think you may need more of a life, other than watching what other 2024 clubs are doing. Seems your world actually agitates you a little too much. Lighten up .....have a Snickers Lol you are funny! But right in the middle of it? Which is even funnier!! 😂
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I think it’s funny that there are ADULTS on her gossiping about children. First off, you have obviously outed yourself as a 91 coach or a bandits parent who merged with the program who think they have an inside scoop. The only people who know the truth in the matter are the coaches, and if others know information who aren’t the coaches those coaches need to grow up and stop gossiping about fifteen year olds. You obviously have a reason to want to defend 91s honor and make it seem like they didn’t lose any good players. There is a reason one out of 3 teams they made folded before the year started because every new player not on bandits or 91 left for other programs. Also want to point out that kids bandits A cut moved to other programs and made teams like top guns black. At the end of the day, even if those kids weren’t offered an A spot as you claim there was obviously a roster made in the coaches head before tryouts that didn’t include kids with the talent level to be on that team.
In reply to asking about the YJ Kildare player whose mom coaches and asking if she will move up to Weiner… why do YOU care? Again, it isn’t your kid. Let the parents and kids decide where they want to play. You also obviously have a reason to attack Kildare and Weiner just as the other individual referenced above has intent to attack the kids who chose not to stay with 91.
You make it very clear that you have a personal vendetta to disrupt the success of other kids and every clubs when you target specific individuals and teams as you are.
It’s time to grow up. If you’re a coach , you have no business coaching if this is how you think of children. If you are a parent, your behavior is disgusting and when college coaches see it or talk to people who know you and your child, you kid is going to pay the consequences for your attitude issues.
Get over yourself and let the kids enjoy the sport. Stop being the reason that these kids aren’t teaching their full potential. You’re a grown up here, YOU should have outgrown this drama.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
I think it’s funny that there are ADULTS on her gossiping about children. First off, you have obviously outed yourself as a 91 coach or a bandits parent who merged with the program who think they have an inside scoop. The only people who know the truth in the matter are the coaches, and if others know information who aren’t the coaches those coaches need to grow up and stop gossiping about fifteen year olds. You obviously have a reason to want to defend 91s honor and make it seem like they didn’t lose any good players. There is a reason one out of 3 teams they made folded before the year started because every new player not on bandits or 91 left for other programs. Also want to point out that kids bandits A cut moved to other programs and made teams like top guns black. At the end of the day, even if those kids weren’t offered an A spot as you claim there was obviously a roster made in the coaches head before tryouts that didn’t include kids with the talent level to be on that team.
In reply to asking about the YJ Kildare player whose mom coaches and asking if she will move up to Weiner… why do YOU care? Again, it isn’t your kid. Let the parents and kids decide where they want to play. You also obviously have a reason to attack Kildare and Weiner just as the other individual referenced above has intent to attack the kids who chose not to stay with 91.
You make it very clear that you have a personal vendetta to disrupt the success of other kids and every clubs when you target specific individuals and teams as you are.
It’s time to grow up. If you’re a coach , you have no business coaching if this is how you think of children. If you are a parent, your behavior is disgusting and when college coaches see it or talk to people who know you and your child, you kid is going to pay the consequences for your attitude issues.
Get over yourself and let the kids enjoy the sport. Stop being the reason that these kids aren’t teaching their full potential. You’re a grown up here, YOU should have outgrown this drama. Thank you for saying this. The adults on here attacking specific kids need to focus on their own kids instead of the gossip they think they know.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Why is it that you even care?? I would find a hobby, something outside maybe. Clearly you need something else more to do than just looking at your phone trying to figure out what other clubs are doing. Sad actually. Maybe you should take your own advice and find a new hobby and way to market yourself. We are all just responding to your nonsense. Please stop. God god. I am not even involved with the above clubs you are talking about. Just an outsider looking in. Think you may need more of a life, other than watching what other 2024 clubs are doing. Seems your world actually agitates you a little too much. Lighten up .....have a Snickers Lol you are funny! But right in the middle of it? Which is even funnier!! 😂 This troll needs more than a snickers…
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Like I said , the girls that went to Jesters were not offered spots , you can tell yourself your kid was offered a spot on the team , but we know the truth. Why is it that you even care?? I would find a hobby, something outside maybe. Clearly you need something else more to do than just looking at your phone trying to figure out what other clubs are doing. Sad actually. Maybe you should take your own advice and find a new hobby and way to market yourself. We are all just responding to your nonsense. Please stop. God god. I am not even involved with the above clubs you are talking about. Just an outsider looking in. Think you may need more of a life, other than watching what other 2024 clubs are doing. Seems your world actually agitates you a little too much. Lighten up .....have a Snickers Lol you are funny! But right in the middle of it? Which is even funnier!! 😂 This troll needs more than a snickers… Ahahaha ....yes he/she does - Don’t think there is any coming back from that child-like mentality. A Snickers won’t help lol. Always remember folks, PARENTS get cut also. And many college programs won’t take kids b/c of their overbearing immature parents. Time to grow up, whoever you are.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
How many players did jesters black get from elevate?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
How many players did jesters black get from elevate? 2-3 according to another post
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Is there a way to see the names of which kids are on which rosters ?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
A few Jesters kids left the program , Recon is in shambles , Recon program is extremely weak, the kids with any type of talent are looking elsewhere. YJ has four teams in this age group , they could easily just combine the actual good players and have a A, B ,C half of these kids don’t play anyway. 91 team kept the core group and added a few Crossfire kids . Haven’t heard much on the legacy front, assuming smooth sailing in legacy Can anyone clarify if Recon folded or merged with somebody else?
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Jeez , you just contradicted yourself in so many ways . Your talking about not bashing kids or adults and grudges, yet you took the time to write a thesis. Obviously your upset about someone or something, possibly playing time ? Your kid not making an A team ?? Let it go
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Obviously we are all right in the middle of it lol We all need hobby’s
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Boy oh boy , sounds like somebody hurt your feelings lol
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Can anyone clarify if Recon folded or merged with somebody else? We have friends who play for Recon 2024 and they still have a team and are set to play in tournaments this fall.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
How many players did jesters black get from elevate? 2-3 according to another post Elevate 2024 played lower level last year. The 2 best players are going to Liberty and YJ C. Jesters offered one or both of these players spots but were turned down. Hope this cleans up any confusion. .
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
How many players did jesters black get from elevate? 2-3 according to another post Elevate 2024 played lower level last year. The 2 best players are going to Liberty and YJ C. Jesters offered one or both of these players spots but were turned down. Hope this cleans up any confusion. . I really think you are misinformed. There are two elevate kids on jesters public roster both of which are very strong players
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-10th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Spoke to a 91 parent who said that the bandits crew has steam rolled 91 and taken over. They’re practicing in stony brook in a park they don’t have permits for and kids are doing a lot of standing at practices. According to the 500 91 email blasts I get a week, I thought BS was growing the girls program, not slapping their name onto the bandits management.
|
|
|
Re: Girls 2024-4th Grade Fall 2021/Summer 2022
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Anonymous
Unregistered
|
Elevate lost a bunch of players this year. Still a couple good players remain on the team but hard to imagine how they will rebuild.
From Elevate, it is correct that 2 went to YJ Kildare and 1 went to Liberty. Jesters picked up 2 of their Defensive players.
|
|
|
Moderated by A1Laxer, Abclax123, America's Game, Annoy., Anonymous 1, baldbear, Bearded_Kaos, BiggLax, BOTC_EVENTS, botc_ne, clax422, CP@BOTC, cp_botc, Gremelin, HammerOfJustice, hatimd80, JimSection1, Ladylaxer2609, lax516, Laxers412, LaxMomma, Liam Kassl, LILax15, MomOf6, Team BOTC, The Hop, TheBackOfTheCage, Thirdy@BOTC, TM@BOTC
|
|