BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys High School Lax

Yeah, let the HS coaches handle it.... because they have proven that they are above reproach... give me a break, many of the HS coaches have their own agenda and not all are good coaches. The reality is that it’s hard to find evaluators who have no bias or preconceived opinions/notions. That said, there should not be parents of players who are trying out involved in any aspect.

Yet you assume it's the coach addressing you on BOTC. How narcissistic can someone be? Good to know your son is "great", why don't you give us some more information and we will be the judge of that. This isn't daddy ball, daddy.

It's "USA"...covers the nation, the best players in the nation in each area voted on by the regional coaching staff. Doesn't matter about how'd they compete vs other regions. It's the most legit selection. You'd rather have a payola, politics, parent, crony system like Nike/UA/Warrior or other tournament run by a travel club?

Actually, The USA Lacrosse All-American selection process for Nassau and Suffolk have traditionally been the most political of all of the awards. Unless they have changed the process in the past year or so the selections have in the past been very political. Players who have been named All-American in the past for the most part have always been excellent players but the process has been very political and there have been many players left out simply because they did not have an advocate (coach) on the selection "committee".

Can you actually show some facts to back up your comment, or is this your opinion?

Just look at the schools on the Nassau USA AA list, deserving maybe, political absolutely. If you're not at one of those 5 schools you'll never get a nomination

We will have to agree to disagree. No payola going on like UA and others especially when dealing with public school. Private/parochial, maybe. Public no.

I find it hard to believe one family and varsity head coach can politically play the minds of 16+ very different public school coaches across leagues in either Nassau or Suffolk. Especially with the diversity of 'upper and lower class' areas, or the 'us vs them', 'have vs have not' mentality of those districts. THEN, that repeating 16x (since eight are represented in each county). No way. Plus, all of this done within a nomination and voting time frame on a single night coaches meet to get all awards, local and national, selected? No way.

I'm pretty sure there is a committee, but it oversees the final tally ONLY AFTER nominations and votes are done by ALL the coaches in each league.

So the best kids don't play on the best teams? Again, to state it's political with no facts to back it up is just silly.

You are out of touch and have no knowledge of history.

Under Armour Senior All-American has been the benchmark for a long time, US Lacrosse not so much...

And you make baseless statements with no basis in fact. You have no knowledge at all.

Here's for the poster who claims to have the knowledge of political lacrosse history...I'm sure you'll tell us all the political loopholes after you see the powerpoint presentation from USL. And then opine on exactly how the coaches do it 'for real', with all the time they have with an already low pay scale, and volunteer hours they want to put in playing politics to earn those extra bucks.

https://www.usalacrosse.com/sites/default/files/documents/Games/2021-HS-%20Awards-coaches-info.pptx

Those who constantly harp on "politics" and "holdbacks" and all the other obstacles preventing their boys from recognition or success on the field just don't want to face reality. Your boy may be a good lacrosse player, even a great one, but he's not nearly as good as you think.

That may be true. But you also must consider the other side. All those parents, club coaches, and high school coaches with connections who continuously meet with or call the evaluators for whatever list or team is being put together also may know that the kid they are pushing for is not deserving and is not good enough or not as good as the unknown kid who was great at tryouts and may actually make the team or list on merit alone. If a superstar needs someone to call on his behalf when the kid who was much better than the superstar at a tryout has no one to call for him that also may mean that the superstar who always makes the top teams and list is not really all that good. It goes both ways. I would love to see a list or team put together from true evaluators who know nothing about the kids coming in and receive no calls from anyone to try and influence him. That would be a list that would be credible. Unfortunately that list or team does not exist. That’s why these lists, awards and teams mean absolutely nothing. I look at which kids made division one or top Division III school to determine who the best are. With the exception of maybe a handful who had connections to get on those college teams that is your list of best players.

Amen. It also happens in college. Look at the AA list and then look at their Stats. Many are pushed through as seniors with lackluster seasons when others clearly out performed them.

This brings to mind the millennial generation disposition, when many believed employers would be begging them to come work for their company after college but couldn’t understand why that didn’t happen and why they didn’t get the big paying jobs and worse even they often turned down the good entry level positions to get their foot in the door.

The kid and parents need to equally work hard on and off the field to get recruited, advocating on their own behalf. Don’t expect anyone to come chase you.

Statistics in lacrosse are one of the most overrated tools of competence on the field.

Like it or not, they absolutely should matter, just like in the work place…but there are always a few that slip through due to politics

TRUTH

Statistics are completely useless in determining a players ability on the field. The best midfielder on a team will be covered by the LSM, hampering his chances of scoring, the best attack will be covered by the best defender. The best defender will have the best attack. This factors into “statistics “ every game.

And the best players overcome the best competition and find a way to score/ turn the ball over, make the save, win the face off, etc. Those players are then top of the stats.

HS player Evaluating 101: Look for the best athletes first and best lacrosse players second. Ideally, those who are always ahead of the ball in transition. Has vision, explosive quickness and stick skills on offense, and are aggressive, Quick and always communicating on defense. The best players on the field always standout even if the stat sheet shows otherwise.

exactly

True but that assumes the evaluators are good and not biased tho

Why? Just cook the scorebook like Mt Sinai does.

More excuses, just add it to holdbacks and politics.

Many schools have fake stats especially those that have coaches who have a son on the team he is coaching or a kid the school will push for an award like All County. That is a fact that the stats for some schools and kids are made up. It does not happen in college which may explain why some kids who run up the stats in HS can’t do it in college.

when you keep your stud in during a blowout win so he can get double digit assists instead of giving bench players time is padding without "faking" not that that ever happens... yeah right.. our coach plays the bench in those games.. give the kids that show up every day and stand a cheer most games time to play.. thats good coaching..

Talking to my sons club coach and referenced BOTC once to him and he laughed. I asked what’s so funny and he said “think about it, 99% of the people that post on there have kids that are not good enough and that is the place they can go and blame everyone and anything besides themselves. That completely changed how I view this sewage. That said I do still like to read up with the insanity

LI won the command division at UA last year
LI has been terrible in the highlight division the past 5 years this age group can never get all the top kids in that age group to participate I think this tournament needs to be moved to fall

99 percent? What study did he do? What info did he use to come to that number? How could that be accurate at all? I guess you believe everything a coach says because they are never wrong. Nice try. I hope you know people post for many reasons. Many have kids who play d1 or are at top D3 schools. They are not good players? I don’t know which is worse a coach who would say such a dense thing or someone who hears it and changes how he views what he reads here. Most people are smart enough to read post and figure out which ones are credible without the club coach having to help. Good luck to you if your post has any truth to it.

“Many schools” okay which ones. There are many so give us a few where this happened.

No normal person is going to name schools and coaches here. The stats are not accurate. Prove they are accurate and give examples and proof they are. Ask your kid if they are accurate. The kids know they are not as do most parents if they are paying attention.

High School “stats” do not count for much, they really do not matter, except maybe for a kid trying to set a school, county , state record. HS stats have never been accurate but I do not believe they are that far off with respect to goals, other stats are most likely less accurate.

Every game is filmed and coaches watch the film In Playoff games are taken by table official

We played top ranked teams and the stats were never accurate. One example was when the opposing team's best player scored one goal and was credited with three. That is just one example. It happened all the time. The biggest abuse of stats came with adding assist. That was never accurate even in the playoffs. Our team never has accurate stats. Players would complain and they were told nothing could be done because it was already called in by the coach. The "mistakes" always favored the same players. My guy plays defense so it never affected him. Those that say stats are not accurate are not making it up.

Statistics at HS games are kept by student managers. You want “on point” statistics, pay someone. Should inch up everyone’s school taxes just a bit. Sounds worthwhile.

Once again, a poster throwing around words like "top ranked teams" "it happened all the time", yet gives no specific dates or teams to validate the claim. It didn't happen all the time, the stats were mostly accurate, and what kid is complaining to the coach about missing stats? if my son made that complaint to his coach he would be done and I would be embarrassed for him. Whatever happened to winning?

Obviously the person who posted this did not want to get specific. Can’t blame him. Top ranked it’s pretty easy to determine. Nassau and Suffolk both only had one top conference where the best teams competed against each other. I know for a fact the statistics are not accurate. There is a reason why college coaches ignore them. Most of the time there is some kid keeping score and does not even understand the rules of what is an assist. . In fact most of the parents on here probably can’t give the definition of an assist. Nothing against anyone but it is just insane to think that the statistics are accurate.

It’s not insane, it’s just not a big deal. Statistics aren’t accurate in HS football, basketball or soccer either. There is one solution, stop playing sports. The program for the HS play is usually pretty accurate.