BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Girls 2025 Grads - Mid Atlantic Region

Was not intentional to leave out HoCo but maybe subliminally just recognizing that they are done after 8th grade.

I would put them at the bottom of the A and close to the top of the B.

Used to be like that but Bethesda is now going through Middle school.

It’s coming. Glenelg girls will be trying to play for Heros now that AP is back on board coaching. The mayflowers trucks are coming. Make sure you leave the lights on.

This is correct and has really affected a few programs on this. BLC, Stars and Capital are no longer as strong as a result.

too much money for club directors not to have teams for each age division.

They would definitely be stronger if they could make the merger happen again. Stars, BLC, Next Level and MC elite would make 2 very successful middle school programs, instead of 4 average ones.

Yes, couldn't agree more. Not sure why these talks aren't occurring. All of the programs are suffering as a result and competing for the same pool of talent. Other than BLC 27s (who got blown out in the 27 championship), I don't see any of those 4 programs succeeding in the A brackets for the next 3-4 years of MS.

they don't care about team success. the directors care about the dollars in their pocket.

It's all about the $$$. If they combine, the directors of each program take a hit!

Unfortunately, I think it is all money driven. Instead of consolidating to be competitive, they are all expanding and even adding B teams. The Pride B teams at 27 and 28 were worse than rec teams, but they were full and paying customers. It would have to come down to the couple of top players from one of those programs leaving to go to another one to have an impact and make that team strong. Once that happened some trickle down might occur after the success is seen. But I don't see any of the directors merging completely.

Agree, however I don't see those top players "hopping" around those clubs in DMV, adding in Pride as well. Those top players would go to the big 3 in MD as the "next step".

Pride 25 is one of the top clubs in the area. The dirty secret is average playing time per player on the team decreases as the girls get older in competitive tournaments, thus they have a lot of showcases. The 6th or 7th midfielder, 5th or 6th attacker, or defender on a top club would be wise to move to not another "big 3" but a close to the top club say in the top 10 in the DMV. Talent spread out among multiple clubs would be better, not worse for the area. The trend of the super club laying waste to all before it is self-defeating if you want an area rich in lacrosse you want talented teams spread about widely In the area. More opportunities for more girls to play competitive games with other competitive teams and get meaningful minutes in said games. The real problem is tryouts and they being compressed over a few days. These just out range starters with the big clubs or not should be afforded the chance to try out for multiple clubs to see how they would fit in the pecking order of the potentially new club. The obvious advantage to going first in tryouts to look at all girls first, see M&D this year, causes all clubs to cluster their tryouts and make it near impossible for girls just to go on speculation to join a new club. It is such a minefield to navigate. It would be so much better if instead of the "big 3" we started to talk about the big 10 clubs in the DMV for the players and the families. That would be 230 girls per year. I think this area easily could support that level of play and closer games to boot. Movement and stress to find a spot on the big 10 teams in the area would lower the stakes tremendously. So we should be encouraging- Pride, HoCo, Stars, LBC, Md United, Coppermine, 3D, TLC, etc. to continue to improve.

You make good points and good things to think about. However, I just don't see it as realistic. The top girls on say the immediate DMV teams, Pride/Stars/NL/MCE/BLC get frustrated with the talent/skill gap across the overall team for that year. They are stuck in a sense as going from 1 of those teams to another club is really just a lateral move and not helping. For the "mid pack" players as you say, again, jumping from Club to club doesn't seem to be a solution. Less clubs, then yes, more talent on a smaller pool of clubs and those A teams are really a true A team top to bottom. Those teams you all mention aren't getting better to compete at the top. They just fight for the same talent. Some players who may not play as much on Pride may switch to Stars or vice versa. However, there's probably a reason those "mid to lower" players on say Pride aren't playing as much. Moving to Stars isn't the "solution" or whatever clubs you want to use as an example. There are too many clubs, not enough talent, rec programs are suffering for #s and in the end, you have a bunch of average to maybe good DMV teams.

It's a good goal to have in your points, but just doesn't seem realistic, just more idealistic.

The big question is do any of these teams listed have parent coaches?

The Stars do not have any parent coaches at any age level. Can't answer for the other clubs.

I can say that just because you are not a parent that coaches, it doesn't make you a good coach, and just because you are a parent that coach, it doesn't make you bad coach.

Case in point...Hero's 25 is a parent coach I believe. Well coached. HoCo 25, former player, not a good coach.

Plenty of bad coaching and good coaching to go around.

It depends on what your definition of "good/bad" coach is. One might argue that a "bad" coach shows undue preference (play time, leadership roles, play opportunities, etc.) for his/her child and/or friends of the child.

You can have expertise in how to teach players the sport, but also make detrimental choices because you are biased (consciously/unconsciously) in a way that is beneficial for your child. This is human nature to want your "own" to be successful. This leads to discontent amongst players and parents who realize that politics/friendships/and ultimately connections supercedes ability and/or hard work. Take this piece out and automatically the perception of a coach changes more favorably.

Anecdotally, I have only experienced ONE coach across three sports, who has not shown obvious preference for their own child player in a number of different ways. I don't think the issues which come with most parent coaches will ever be resolved; however, efforts by teams/clubs to limit the number and also infuse nonparent coaches on the sidelines will help.

Where are the reserves of great coaches waiting in the wings to take on a club lax team for limited pay?

Having a parent coach isn't all that bad. They have skin in the game. will setup additional practices, training sessions, etc. A coach who doesn't have a kid in the game, might not be all in on helping the kids.

Lol. Exactly.

I coached my daughters' teams for years and at most I applied the fees to their dues or contributed it back for families that needed the help.

We all have our own experiences with parent coaches and I can say that net/net, I am mostly happy with parent coaches. Clubs can bring in outside coaches to help and give advanced coaching expertise. Lord knows I wish my daughter's current club would get rid of their non parent coach for anyone who knows how and has experience coaching.

Accurate.

Looking at the 25 and 26 teams at our club shows the stark contrasts between parent coaches. One coach hold extra sessions, drives accountability, pushes the kids hard, and expects their best at all times. The other coach cancels practices, only coaches their kid, and lets their kid do whatever they want on the field with no repercussions.
There are great parent coaches out there. At the same time there are parent coaches who are only in it for their kids. Hope for the former.

How about 3? Lol

For Live Love Lax, why
1. Aren't Yellow Jackets in division with M&D and Heros?
2. Did NEMS move to an easier division?

Why do all the top teams playing each other in every tourney ? We leave md and still play the same teams. Makes no sense at all.

Yellow Jackets, Hero's and Grizzlies are in the same bracket for Live Love Lax. Hero's, Yellow Jackets and Grizzlies are in the same bracket again for
Lax 4 the Cure.

Looks like Spallina pulled out. Guessing NY High School Playoffs. Heros and M&D both were supposed to play YJ Spallina.

And Steps plays weak teams to get to playoffs.

What about M&D Red? They are 6 back, I thought they moved to A.

Skywalkers Blue stepping down in competition, why are they not playing in the Heros/MND/CT Grizzlies, pool? Skywalkers White stepping up to A ball at Summer Genesis Origins. They have a harder schedule compared against the might Blue team. Makes you wonder why are they coddling the blue team.

Here is what I don't understand. Someone is on here berating the HOCO team/coach constantly. If you are a HOCO parent - leave the club. You are obviously unhappy. If you are not a HOCO parent - GET A LIFE. You are an adult with nothing else to do but talk about other kids coaches . Why do you even care. I thought this was supposed to be a forum to discuss lacrosse issues, not for grown ups with nothing else to do, to talk about kids teams and coaches. Your kids lacrosse shouldn't be your life.

this.

It is a good point Hoco has obviously gotten better. Would you not want to be on an improving team? Which team would you go join where you would be in a better situation? It is good for all the teams, parents and players to have more good programs in the area not less. I am sure the coaching has played a role in them getting better. You can always walk away, tryout elsewhere etc. I would think people should consider clubs like Hoco, especially if you are "trapped" on a power B team or a bench player on one of the power clubs. Also Coppermine, Md United, 3d Frederick, and NEMS etc. The grass is not always greener but the opportunity is there to be a big part of a rising club rather than a role player on a big club or a star on their B team. Very few girls move from B to A on the big clubs. Getting meaningful minutes in close games on a "lesser" improving club> being bench player/ only playing in blowouts/ star of the b team on the big clubs. It does sound like someone has an axe to grind against Hoco.

Except HoCo has not gotten better if you look at results over the years. They've lost players to Hero's Green and M&D Black in the past few years. One big result over Skywalkers does not necessarily mean too much until they back it up this summer.

They also do not have an established track record with recruiting, which does play a role.

Clearly parents are unhappy with the organization. Wouldn't you rather they leave than have the constant negativity?

Summer Genesis Origins top 4 make the playoffs. Redshirts really should not be in the top bracket. Huge advantage playing them. SW white is a stretch but they have won some games at least. Redshirts should move to B bracket for fairness.

SW Blue is playing M&D Black and in the "A" bracket at Genesis Origins. Guessing they'll go 3-1 so could be tough to make the playoff bracket.

Last year tough to compare not many games. This year Hoco made NGLL playoffs and made it to the semi finals. 18 team league they were top 4. Which rising team has not lost players to Heros or MnD? Is it parents or just 1 parent? What is your goal?

Totally agree. Despite the recent propaganda on here from who could only be a HoCo coach, I would suggest anyone looking at that organization talk to people who have been there first. There is a reason so many people post on here about them and why so many have fled.

As an outsider here, seems like HoCo coaching staff issues are a lacrosse issue, no? You a part of HoCo? Loll

I think it’s hard if not impossible to leave and find another club mid year at most ages never mind going into HS. I am sure come next month, folks dissatisfied with 2025 Hoco coaching staff efforts, ability, knowledge, and attitude will be trying out elsewhere. I hope they find a place that is a better fit.