BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Girls 2015 Fall 2011/Spring 2012

i coach 3rd grade girls for 2 years now, and i know to tell the girls to shoot low. if thats all coach rose told them, oh boy

" one could argue
that the match would have been better suited for a finals."
Not sure what that means .

BOTC had taken one line from the full blogging report to make our point. To explain the actual game situation, the feeling was that the Stars keeper was more vulnerable up high but once the game was being played, it was felt that bounce shots were the better approach based on what was being seen on the field. In summary, the instructions and adjustments made for a third grade group and a U/15 squad might use the same words, but the execution is very different.

Exactly what is the problem here? Our assertion is that a Top Guns/Yellow Jackets national championship game (as opposed to being on the same side of the bracket) would have been a very compelling final.

The Stars team was a better team than the Top gun team. Although I do think the Top Guns could have beat Top of the Bay. If I remenber correctly the Stars team beat Top of the Bay easily.

Correct - it is very possible that the final results were an accurate represnetation of the top four teams. Again, the conversation started with a coaching discussion more so than the team placements.

"Exactly what is the problem here? Our assertion is that a Top Guns/Yellow Jackets national championship game (as opposed to being on the same side of the bracket) would have been a very compelling final. "
Your answer to my statement is the problem, top guns took 4th your answer seems to assert if they had been on the other side of the bracket they would have made it to the finals discounting the performance of the 2 and 3 place teams

If you are saying a top gun/YJ final would have been exciting your crazy. I would not have even been close, YJ is a far far superior team at that level. Oh, I'm not a YJ parent!

Totally disagree, Top Guns would have beat them. I have seen both teams play. And I am not a Top Guns parent.

I disagree with your statement while the YJ were definately the better team the YJ brought up all their better players which Top Guns did not. Top Guns did not play to their full potential and in the end they got beat fair and square. YJ deserved to win that game and yes I am a Top Guns parent and was at the game.

So are you saying that both TG and YJ don't have all their better players on their top teams?

The National Championship teams rosters rules are based on birthdates (like soccer), not graduation years (as most other lax tournaments usually are). If you look at back posts from the Championship game, YJ had top players from 2014 team and 2015 team playing (won't mention names...). TG may not have done the same and kept w/ their 2015 team....

so are you saying that the players that top gun brought up, at leat 2 were not their best players? Why did they play so much? Bottom line, yj had 2 lines of almost equal talent and top gun ran out of gas about two thirds of game. Score would have been a blow out if yj was a little more accurate during first ten minutes of game. Really, there was no real competition at the entire tournament as is evidenced by the scores of the games that yj participated. Top gun game them at least somewhat of a game if not a real challenge. Better shot placement and that game would have been a blow out too.

<Editted player reference> isn't one of the better 2015's????? Stop with the excuses. You lost to a better team! It wasn't close!

If that is true than the TG teams should consistantly beat the YJ teams at the 2014 and 2015 level! That didn't happen. The TG teams are competitive, the kids are good players. Why is it so hard to accept that those Yellow Jacket teams are just better right now. It is not a big deal! You just make yourself look so childish and petty! No need for excuses!

top gun brough their 2014 team and a few players from 2015 team

"Totally disagree, Top Guns would have beat them. I have seen both teams play. And I am not a Top Guns parent."

I actually agree you must not be a TG parent because then you would know that they did play and YJ beat them .TG took 4th so to say that they would have beat them is silly

You need to get a grip. The YJ 2015 is so superior I don't think it would really be a competition. I find it interesting that the TG teams don't win any major tournaments but yet they still think they are the best. Oh right, how can they win if the YJ win them all! Get a grip. It would be so much less obnoxious if you just admitted your not 1st on LI but 2nd, or maybe 3rd.

new- poster....As a Top gun parent I would probably agree with that assessment(TG's #2 -#3). Not to take anything away from the YJ teams and program, they have pretty much been the dominate program for many years now. When my daughter first joined TG's I was really not sure what to expect from this club since it was brand new, untested and unproven. Certainly wasn't expecting them to be so competative so soon, it was a gamble that paid off very well. Is it the powerhouse program that YJ's is? (talking program and not specifically 2015 here).Last year, not quite. This year, maybe, hopefully, especially with all the new players from try-outs. Even if it takes another year or two, I'm quite certain they will be neck and neck with the YJ's quite soon, like I said they rose way past my expectations so soon, so who knows. It's funny to see all the parents bickering who is better, if that's what gets you going, have at it. All I'll say is that they are both very good programs, so whoever your daughter plays for, good luck.

They will never be neck and neck with 2015 blue. That team has 100 wins already, no losses.

2015 yj blue,2016 yj blue , 2017yj blue,2018yj. The top gun teams at these age levels cannot compete against these teams as of yet.The 2016 tg teams is at best the 4th best team on the island.That being said I think TG is going to make some noise after these age groups in that I think they are doing a better job recruiting the young kids.Only time will tell.

I guess we will see

Exactly, can you really expect any club to slap together a team in a year or two and take down a yellow jacket team that has been together for years and years (amassing over 100 games-2017 reference), which is especially more the case for the older teams. It's suprising the TG teams are competitive at all (yet they are). But I agree, give the younger teams time to develope and they will be neck and neck. And that's what you should want as a parent no matter what club your daughter plays for. A CHOICE. A choice to play for whatever competitive club you want.

2015 not 2017 reference, sorry

regarding the 2016 age group, who is in your top 4??
#1 Yellow Jackets
#2
#3
#4 TopGuns

I agree, choice is good. I'm a YJ parent and I do hope that TG is successful in getting better each year. Seems to me that it is still somewhat "regionial" and that has hurt clubs like express and Liberty. Boards like this may help to increase the interest and create a more competitive environment. Competion helps everyone.

100 wins???? Has the team been playing since pre-K????

2016 top teams on LI in no particular order would be express, suffolk county all-stars,yellow-jackets,the team based out of wantagh(not sure of their travel team name)and I would put yj gold above tg at this time in my opinion.

2016 allstars beat YJ blue twice already.I beleive they should be considered the best on LI at that age

News for the 2015 age group from Mid-Atlantic Tournament : Top Guns 2015 Purple defeats Diamonds 2015, 9-4, in opening game. Top Guns 2015 Black win handily, 11-1, over Jets Black 2015 in their first game.

Top Guns 2015 Purple do not advance despite the 4W-0L-0T record - they lose the tie-breaker to Skywalkers 2015 Blue who also ran the bracket. Tough break scheduling-wise that these two did not get the chance to meet for the spot. Skywalkers had a +45 differential; +24 for the Top Guns.

Being a Liberty parent ,I have to say that I don't Think that TG has done any damage to Liberty, But has devastated 91. and hurt express on a much lesser scale . 2015 YJ blue is the best team on long island bar none, sorry TG parents wishful thinking doesn't make it so. And before you go off the rails , TG and Liberty have not played yet so let them play before you start sticking you chest out and speculate how much better TG is than Liberty. Remember your program is new , and though you have done well , you still have a way to go Good luck to all your daughters

Didn't mean that TG has hurt Liberty, but rather that being regional (heavy on Manhasset and not much away from north shore of Nassau county)limits them.

It is a shame that YJs, Liberty, Express and Team 91 were all not at the tournament. I would like to have seen them play against each other.

Even in the age groups where there was more Long Island representation, the Long Island teams are generally split apart during the group play phase. You only get to see the teams play each other in the knock-out rounds and that is only if every team manages to get through the group play stage. Even an undefeated record (one Top Guns team this weekend) is sometimes not enough to get through the brackets. So, it is mostly skill and teamwork, but an element of luck is also involved.

I NEVER want to see Long Island teams playing each other after a 5 hour drive onth NJ Turnpike. Even in the bracket rounds I'd rather go home early and meet up somewhere later. What would be nice is to see all of them playing on LI.

Agreed. Nothing pisses off the parents more than driving through traffic, paying tolls and travel expenses, and then finding out you're playing teams from LI.

i would say that was true if liberty had a big showing of girls from the babylon, islip area before but since that was not true before I don't see how it hurts them. if anything the Mineola, Carl Place new hyde park girls have gone to other smaller start ups Park lax Togsz etc. TG really hurt 91 girls (mostly because 91 does not care about the girls program) and ended South bay where I know at least 15 girls from 2 teams came from.(and yes I know tom carro took all the girls from a team to carol Rose and started YJ east

Yes, it is fun to face non-local teams, but if you never face the local competition, does it really matter?

The "pissed-off-parent" picture works in the youth soccer world, Powderfinger, because the Long Island teams will regularly face each other in league play and other local tournaments. Think of how many teams support East Meadow's Ref-Fuel or Albertson/Riley's National Elite Showcase. The money flows on Long Island and the competition, at least in these events, remains local and strong.

In the lacrosse world, particularly on the girls side, you can likely count on one hand the number of Long Island matches that have taken place on Long Island this year between the Yellow Jackets, Liberty, Top Guns and a few select others - and that is including all age groups.

Partially due to the lack of an organizing league or structure, patronizing another club's tournament is seen as building up that other club at your own expense. Hopefully, that climate will change over time. Goodness knows that BOTC made calls to try and change the landscape for the Elite Showcase this summer to no avail - despite it being the top girls recruitment tool in our own backyard. Perhaps, the ground will be more fertile next year - we can hope.

It remains disappointing that we do not see more "Long Island Derbies" and a more united "Long Island" force when the teams head off the Island.

I agree that YJ 2015 is a very good team. Having said that , the times they are a changing. Parents are losing faith in a rigid "win at all cost" program that disparages the players who can't produce. And by the way, How much money is there in running 3 or 4 teams per age group???? If it is really about the kids then why are parents secretly trying to get out of YJ without being blackballed by the YJ leadership?