BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2024-8th Grade Fall 2019/Summer 2020

You're probably having a conniption over Inside Lacrosse 13U Final World Rankings. The problem is, you contribute nothing to advance the narrative.. always a conspiracy theorist. ps.. dog men do not exist, high register sean.

91 Long Island is probably the top program overall. Hard to argue that if you're looking at 2020-2025. However, they are also the shadiest and biggest bunch of money grabbers. So by having this site affiliated with them, which it is, it makes the whole thing suspect. Even if the guy running it is the most honest guy in the world there is a conflict of interest that is plain as day.

What evidence do you have that indicates 91 is the “shadiest and biggest money grabbers”? Simply because they are the biggest and most successful club in the country? The club is a top tier club in all respects and I’m not just talking about winning T-shirt’s. How many teams do you know with no holdbacks? Or how many WSYL teams went into that with 100% their own kids? The answer to both questions is two. The 2024 91 Wolfpack and the 2023 91 Bandits. You think that’s shady?? That’s the exact opposite of shady. For those two grades, 91 is the least shady of likely all teams. And, it’s by far the most professional run organization that I am aware of, and I’m aware. It’s also one of the most expensive teams out there, no question about it. But you get what you pay for. At this point, you sound like just another mindless jealous hater.

Bandits just took 3 reclassed 2022s so I guess you don't know as much as you think. As for a professionally run organization, that's a joke. Their office staff can take days to get back to you if they even do at all. If by professional you mean focused mostly on profits at the expense of anything else, you're spot on. How was Laxfest again? Play any good teams? No, but you were stuck going and probably bitched the whole way on how it was a waste of your time. At least you didn't have to #WolfPackUpAndLeave from that tournament.

Wolfpack did not go with their own. 3 best kids on team came from taz and express. nice try. good luck with your lil kids next year. at least you have the argument of holdbacks.

What happened to the Igloo Windchill team and the program as a whole? Rumor is that Windchill is built with B-level talent and Frostbite are mostly 1st time travel players. Any truth to this?

I'm a long-time lurker from outside of any of the traditional hotbeds...these boards are pure entertainment gold

The US Club Lax rankings are flawed, for sure...as someone else pointed out, they don't have every tournament played in their ranking system and the algorithm needs to be tweaked, but I commend the effort and the rankings are as good as we've got (really all we've got, actually - the Nissan/IL 13U rankings only rank teams who play in WSYL qualifiers)

I will say that they are relatively transparent about the shortcomings of their system. When they posted the final top 100 on Instagram, they posted 4 slides which explained the rankings - one on the RPI calculation (Winning Percentage, Opponents Winning Percentage , Opponents-Opponents Winning Percentage and Goal Differential up to 8); one on Strenght of Schedule calculation (OWP and OOWP); a Head to Head disclaimer (when an unranked opponent beats a ranked opponent in any sport, that unranked opponent doesn't automatically go ahead of the ranked opponent); and one about a team's Record (winning percentage) in relation to schedule strength.

It appears to me that Strength of Schedule is much more important than actually winning games in their algorithm, though - and that is a major flaw. There is a team in the 2024 top 60 that went 0-9 in events tracked by USCL this summer with a -87 goal differential. I saw this team play this summer, and they wouldn't beat the 91 LI 2024 B team, but because all of their lopsided losses were against good teams, they are ranked. At some point, they've got to make results matter more if they rankings are going to be taken as a serious barometer of relative strength.

My son plays for a team which has played Hawks, True National, Crabs, Thunder LB3, Sweetlax FL, Edge, Big 4 HHH, API Diamondbacks, Carolina Miners, West Coast Starz, Laxachusetts, Leading Edge and a number of other "top 100" 2024 teams in the last calendar year (along with the Team 91 LI 2024 B team), and I will say that when you get outside of the top 20, or so, there isn't much separating the number 21 team from the number 70 team...for the most part. My son's team has taken lumps from teams barely in the top 50 and handled a top 25 team...

If you care about the rankings at all, you have to take them for what they are...a somewhat flawed measure of approximate relative strength...nothing more.

For the 2024's, I look at them in tiers...

the top 25 teams are all strong programs that can compete with any team on any weekend and will likely thump anyone outside of the top 25 with some regularity (you could probably make an argument that the top 8 to 10 is a separate tier on its own) - all of these teams are legit AA caliber teams

26 through 75 are all really strong teams that are likely to play good, competitive games against each other, will occasionally knock off a top 25 team, but more often will get beat handily by those teams...this tier is a mix of low AA caliber teams and high A caliber teams

76 - 100 are teams that are good, solid regional programs that will occasionally play a competitive game against a top 75 team, but really only make the rankings because they play in some high-level events where they get a SOS boost for this ranking system

Last thing...the team that went 0-9 this summer posted their USCL rankings to their Instagram page as a way to puff up their program...it took everything I had in my power not to respond and say "but your team didn't win a single game all summer"

...now continue with your Madlax Cheaters vs. Wolfpack Up and Leave debate...I've got plenty of popcorn

Taz is going to crush it this year. With Our new additions, this team will be dominant.

You hit the nail on the head. Many complaints have merit (esp about conflict of interest) but that site fills a vacuum. There's no need to completely bash it unless you can create a better mouse trap. I believe they are open to ideas on how to improve it and I hope they are reading your post which is by far the best post in a long time. We need you to stop lurking and mix it up in the octagon once in a while so you can get your fair share of head bashing. Well done.

Serious question, would Taz beat Madlax this year? Answer honestly (NVM all the holdback argument). Better yet, if Taz plays Madlax 10 times, what would be the result?

They have not one anything in years and ending at the WSYL left a bad taste in their mouths.

Its crazy to hear what these clubs are charging per year per person. Even if it is an A B or C team. 3700 or so and only going up. Its a shame that these clubs have replaced town as the only option in many ways.i know as parents and as a consumer you have the choice but the amount to pay to play is ridiculous and only will go up. Feel bad with families with multiple kids. I remember like only 6 yrs ago it was only 1500

good idea but bad data or something. Need to put more emphasis on head to head in my opinion. And if not enough data on a team dont rank them that is better than putting them way down where they shouldnt be. They should count all tournaments not sure why they do not. They left out some really big tournaments. My son's team beat 8 teams ahead of them......a top 5 team they went 2 and 2 with and are in the 30s somehow. Could be really cool though if they get it more accurate, but need to count all tournaments for that I think.

I see what you mean. Just looked at the Team Results and one team only have 6 games in the database while the majority are in the 15-25 range. At the very least, they should use the same # of games. Hope they improve it.

All of #WolfPackUpAndLeave’s games are listed. 91 hoax.

What new additions lol

Seems like they added b players to a what was descent AA team . Gonna be a long season for them

I know that at least 6+ of their very best players have gone to Taz and WP. Likely there are more than that. This team will struggle to win any games this year. Too bad. They were a solid team. Taz and WP will benefit handsomely, however. Taz lost no one and added some good ones. They were “good” last year. They will be “very good” this year. Even more talent for WP. Good luck to the coaches trying to keep them all happy with playing time.

the "very best" from a B+ to A level team means very little. i think you need to slow down with the superlatives. i've seen that team play this past season and to say the other teams with 'benefit handsomely' from them is a bit of a stretch. one can argue that they wouldn't improve the two teams who were already very good. that igloo team seem to be left with scraps and now a B team, and if what youre saying is true, we can expect them to play in lower brackets. so igloo will just sit here and take it to the chin?

I’m going to respond to your post because seems like these Psycho parents just want to talk about club teams and who is better. I agree the prices are insane for a sport there no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow . Prime example Rob Pannell and Marcus Stroman, 2 kids played the sport there whole life 1 contract millions and millions and the other hardly anyone watches and the stands are empty .... wake up stop paying these crazy prices and in Maryland Lax club prices are half what Li pays .

Igloo is in trouble this year and they will go into hiding. They have two b teams for this upcoming season. Taz added talent and didn’t cut anyone so what are they carrying 30 on roster ? Wolfpack’s still very strong

Who really cares ? You yenta lacrosse parent .

strong enough to wolf pack up and go !!

Who would pay 4K for 91 B are you people crazy . There’s so many better teams than pay 4 k for a b team.

Especially when it's well known how poorly 91 treats their B teams.

Just like iPhones and Adroid, brand matters most for some. Imagine a scenario where dads working for a hedge fund chatting about what clubs their kids play for.. details are conveniently left out.

all about IMAGE for the Parents.

Wolfpack had a great run congrats that year is done. just looking forward to this season and found it interesting how bad igloo is gonna be this upcoming year. Midfielders all gone and and attack as well and lost their poles and goalie. Will they enter b tourneys with frostbite ?

But if my son doesnt play for a top level AA team, how can he be Paul Rabil?

Yup. I agree. New year, new players. A complete do-over. However, sounds like Pack will be in very good shape again this year, and Taz should be far stronger as well, with their new Igloo midi's. Can Express compete with either team? Anybody else on LI feeling good enough about their new acquisitions to throw them into that conversation?

Most of us have been on this thread a very long time. The conversation hasn’t changed since we started. Ninety percent of the posts are about WP, Taz and Express. In that order. This is Long Island, the undisputed hot bed of all hot beds for lacrosse. How is it that there still aren’t any teams in that conversation, even after all these years? There are only 60 kids on the Island with top talent? I don’t get it. There should be plenty of AA teams on the Island. Can’t really compare to MD teams, since they combine the grade ahead (holdbacks) with any given grade, and their on age kids are already up to 5 months older due to their cut off dates, but still... Long Island IS lacrosse. There really should be more “better” teams, right? Would appreciate different perspectives on this.

Who'd want to be that guy? He was never that good and his shorts are too high and his sweatpants too tight.

Are you kidding me? Rabil is promoting staged fighting and ball drop FO's during PLL games like hockey. You don't think that's cool?

There are a ton of B teams on LI who would be A teams in any other state. However, the B teams are disrespected by the holier than thou LI parents, and especially the club owners.

B players' parents' money is just as green as A's. If club owners and parents were smart about it, they would ensure that their tournament brackets are level-appropriate to get competitive games where B players can enjoy playing time and improve. The problem comes down to egos of said club owners and parents. I can't count how many brackets I've seen where teams have no business being in.

There are three teams, and then the drop off to the next team, is... off a cliff. Use to be that Igloo was there. But now they won't be in any conversations either. It's been like this since the beginning. Every year, people post on here, "teams are catching up." Well I haven't seen it yet.

.

No different at 2023, 2022, 2021

Unfortunately it sounds like that gap may widen even further this year, with all of the top Igloo players going to either WP or Taz (and presumably Express). Would have made it a little more interesting had they gone to other teams. So who will be at the top of the next tier? True Blue?

Heard True Blue lost some of their good players as well. So we will just have to wait and see!!

I heard True blue trimmed the fat