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Use this thread to discuss topics pertaining to the 2019-2020 Women's Division I, II & III College Lacrosse season or go to 'The Locker Room' forum & click on the 'College Lacrosse' sub forum

-- "Why is it unacceptable for Duke but not any other school? Why is Duke Women's lacrosse in a different category than so many others?" --

Several reasons come to mind. Duke is a Top 10 Academic Institution, They Compete in the ACC, The University fully funds and supports the program, The Program has Admission Slots, Beautiful Campus, Great Weather, Easy to get to from Hot Bed areas, Up until the past 3 years the program was consistently Top 10.

Correct. Duke has a ton of inherent advantages that should lead to a very successful program. Look at their counterparts on the Men's side. The school supports these programs wholeheartedly. There's no reason that Princeton and Penn are stronger programs than Duke. How has Stony Brook become more successful than Duke? How has USC become more successful when east coast girls have to go all the way out there? How did Florida become more successful?

There's no excuse for what's gone on at Duke over the last 4 years and the school is running out of patience. A great replacement is now on staff and it would be an easy enough transition. If Duke struggles again I believe the change will be made.

The two biggest factors in a programs long term success are: Coaching and talent. The best coaches constantly identify the best players, convince those players to become a part of their program, coach and develop the players and create a culture that is constantly successful.

Duke was one of those programs but it looks like they have fallen off a bit the past few years. What changed? Are they not bringing in the talent? Did an important assistant coach move on? Did the fact that Duke did not aggressively jump on the band wagon of early recruiting? Duke should absolutely be one of the Top 10 - 15 Programs.

looking at the situation (without inside knowledge of the program) I think they missed out on too much talent during the 3 - 4 year stretch of "early recruiting". If they missed on 1 or 2 Top Recruits per year during that time frame it would be enough to hurt their program just enough to keep them out of that top group of 10 - 15 Programs. For sure it would keep them out of the top 4 - 6 programs.

It seams to me that the coaches at the top programs are able to identify the best players and then convince the players to choose to attend their school. When you look at the top programs it is easy to see why the coaches at those schools can land the best talent. The Duke coaches have everything they need in order to compete for the top recruits. Not so easy for many other programs.

Big year for The Blue Devils.

Didn't the current Elon Head Coach leave Duke in 2012?

Dont think they make the tournament again .

Is Michigan for real? Was last year a fluke?

Why? What’s so special about Duke?

Why the focus on Duke. The same can be said about UVA, ND (until this year), Hopkins...

Interestingly Duke just slipped two in the rankings for top schools. They were #8, tied with Penn, Penn moved up to #6, Duke to 10, now tied with Hopkins. I would rather see by kid go to Penn which is a better school, has great lacrosse , and is close enough to drive to easily.

No, it can't be said about UVA and Notre Dame. Hopkins is a very good program but they were not at the level that Duke.

UVA is one of the Top 10 Programs and ND is right there as well. Notre Dame finished outside the Top 20 maybe once in the past 5 or six years. Duke has not finished ranked in the Top 20 for the past three years. Not too long ago Duke was consistently a Top 10 finisher. Hopkins has finished the season in the Top 20 five times in the past 10 years

Hopkins

2010 - #20
2011 - Not ranked
2012 - #18
2013 - Not ranked
2014 - #15
2015 - #17
2016 - #16
2017 - Not ranked
2018 - Not top 20... (ranked 21)
2019 - not top 20... (ranked 22)

Hopkins is a very good program and an excellent school. They are certainly one of the top 20 -25 programs in the country. ND and UVA a little bit stronger in terms of lacrosse.

For whatever reason Duke has fallen off a bit the past few years. IMHO Duke missed out on some top recruits during the Hey Day of early recruiting. While other Top 10 programs were locking up their top recruits Duke was sitting on the sideline. Three or four additional studs on the roster and Duke would have been back in the Top 10. Even one dominant player can make a difference at a program like Duke.

Pretty sure they will be back in the mix this year but if not the coach is probably in trouble.

Okay, Duke didn’t recruit your daughter, everyone sees through this silliness. Move in.

Lol, so many better places to go. Duke Womans lacrosse will always be losers. School went downhill and took the lax team along. Have fun!

Thanks for your insight. Now tell us all what we should move onto? Bashing players perhaps? The Duke situation is interesting. What caused the downturn?

You have been posting this Duke nonsense repeatedly. Why? Tell us your odd obsession with Duke. It screams “snub”. I’m just hoping that your daughter is over it. Because you’re certainly not.

Really? Do you NOT realize that several people have been posting regarding Duke? My posts have actually been positive, in response to the questions:

"Why is it unacceptable for Duke but not any other school? Why is Duke Women's lacrosse in a different category than so many others?"

Below was my was my answer:

"Several reasons come to mind. Duke is a Top 10 Academic Institution, They Compete in the ACC, The University fully funds and supports the program, The Program has Admission Slots,
Beautiful Campus, Great Weather, Easy to get to from Hot Bed areas, Up until the past 3 years the program was consistently Top 10."

No obsession, no bitterness and sorry there was no snub. Why do you care that others want to discuss the current state of the Duke Womens's Program. Why must they move on?

Not really familiar with the other programs but lets take a comparison of UVA vs Duke. UVA coach has won a national championship and has reached NCAA final 3 times , Duke has 0 finals appearances. UVA has made every NCAA tournament since Myers has been coaching , Kimmel and Duke have not done so multiple times. Duke ended season ranked outside the to 20 the past 3 years , UVA has been top 20 the last 5 seasons and possibly longer with 2 of those seasons being in the top 10. As far as ND it has been said on this site many times that her job is or should be in jeopardy.

*** "Why the focus on Duke? The same can be said about UVA".... No, the same can not be said about UVA.

Below is how Duke and Virginia finished the season since 2010.

............... 2010......2011......2012......2013......2014......2015......2016......2017......2018......2019

UVA----------4--------14----------8----------9----------4----------8----------16--------14----------13--------7

Duke---------5---------5----------6-----------7----------8----------4----------11--------NR---------NR------NR

Something has gone wrong at Duke.

The Duke Women's Lacrosse program began in 1996 Virginia began in 1976. Virginia has won 3 National Championships and 5 ACC Championships. Duke has not won a national championship but has won 1 ACC Championship. Duke has made the NCAA Tournament 19 times in the programs 24 year history. Since the NCAA Tournament began in 1986 Virginia has made the Tournament 32 times in 33 years .

Virginia is one of five programs in the NCAA to be ranked at least once in every year of the IWLCA Coaches Poll. The poll was created
in 1988, with Dartmouth, Maryland, Penn State and Princeton joining Virginia
as the only programs to be nationally ranked every year.

For many years Duke was constantly one the Top 10 Programs. What happened?

Thanks for the analysis, bottom line, if Coach Kimel called tomorrow and offered your daughter a spot, are you taking it?....

Yup. so am I.

Most players but not all players would accept an offer from Duke. So the bottom line is... with all that Duke has to offer what has happened ? Why the downturn?

Personally, I think they will be back in the Tourney and The Top 20 this year and all will be well but if they are not than I think we will see a change in the coaching staff.

Hopkins is ranked the same academically, is travel friendly, and has better lacrosse.

LOL ND has been at the top of the recruitment lists for years now. My guess is that the recruits are overhyped, under-coached, or a combo of both.

I have not seen IL's 2019 Top 10 Freshmen Class Ranking but I assume from your comment that Notre Dame has the highest rated incoming freshmen class. If that is the case it will be the first time ND has had the Number 1 spot in the past 5 years.

Notre Dame has not been at the top for years. Notre Dame is one of a number of programs that usually bring in strong (top 10) recruiting classes. Maryland, North Carolina, Syracuse, Florida, Princeton, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Boston College, Loyola, Duke, UVA have all had classes ranked in the Top 10 multiple times in the past 4 years. Again, have not seen this years ranking but I am sure it will be many of the usual suspects.

ND is #5 and #7 in '19 and '18 respectively.

In both 2017 and 2019 they have the #1 recruit (supposedly).

In 2015 (their recent senior class) they had 4 Top 50 recruits.

Most of the Top 10 - 15 Programs will have Top Recruiting classes most years Notre Dame is no different. Maryland, North Carolina and Syracuse seem to have highly ranked classes every year. Notre Dame, Northwestern, Florida, Princeton, Virginia, Duke, Boston College and some others also bring in highly ranked recruiting classes just about every year. Penn, Loyola, Hopkins and some others are also in the mix from time to time.

The two programs that have done the best without highly ranked recruiting classes have to be JMU and Stony Brook. Penn State should be mentioned as well, I do not recall seeing any of their classes being ranked in the Top 10 and they are usually a Top 20 Team.

No surprise that the same teams that bring in the top recruiting classes tend to be the strongest programs.

With all their success why does Maryland have to play of that dopey Field Hockey turf field...

They don't have to they want to, they feel its an advantage.

I think the point that some are trying to make is: if ND, Florida and Duke are always at (or near) the top with their recruiting classes, then where are the final four appearances? Where are the championships? Why do they consistently fall-short of expectations?

over-hype of recruits, coaching, or both.

2023 parent here in NJ
Why do I keep getting emails about showcases over the winter in fFlorida? So many good schools but we are not going to go down for a weekend bc of basketball and it’s too expensive after going for the ICWLA.
Are these schools looking for Florida players? Where do the girls come from down here?

the dopey field hockey field was redone in the spring for the 19-20 school year.

Definitely overrated and overhyped recruits of course!c

Probably a combination but more so the coaching.

Here is a question... If the Lists, IL Player Rankings, UA All-Americans are always off and political then why are the teams that get the highest ranked players always the Top Teams and Top Programs?

Maryland, North Carolina, Northwestern, Syracuse, Florida, Notre Dame, Princeton, Virginia, Boston College, and a few others always seem to get the top ranked players and they always seem to finish in the Top 10 - 20. Where do all of these other teams who have all of the "just as deserving players" finish every year?

If the lists and rankings etc.. are alwaysl wrong, political and a joke wouldn't other programs constantly outperform the perennial top 10 -15 programs?

Congratulations to all of the Young Guns and Freshmen who were recognized by Inside lacrosse. Good Luck to All.

This year... Fall 2019 - LWomen's Top 10 Incoming Classes

1. Maryland
2. Notre Dame
3. North Carolina
4. Northwestern
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Florida
8. Loyola
9. Syracuse
10. Richmond

Nice to see Richmond making some waves. The others bring in top 10 classes just about every year.

I'm not saying it isn't nice as Its a nice field .. but its designed for a different sport, the turf is like concrete..

[ [/quote]

This year... Fall 2019 - ILWomen's Top 10 Incoming Classes

1. Maryland
2. Notre Dame
3. North Carolina
4. Northwestern
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Florida
8. Loyola
9. Syracuse
10. Richmond

. [/quote]

Maryland has the Number 1 incoming class... but there are [b]12 incoming Freshman[/b]! . there cant be a lot of scholarship passed around.. I figure they're whacking up 2.5 or 3 max scholarships between the 12 of them..

This year... Fall 2019 - ILWomen's Top 10 Incoming Classes

1. Maryland
2. Notre Dame
3. North Carolina
4. Northwestern
5. Penn
6. Duke
7. Florida
8. Loyola
9. Syracuse
10. Richmond

. [/quote]

Maryland has the Number 1 incoming class... but there are [b]12 incoming Freshman[/b]! . there cant be a lot of scholarship passed around.. I figure they're whacking up 2.5 or 3 max scholarships between the 12 of them..
[/quote]

State School. In state tuition much cheaper than out of state and pretty sure scholarships are based on out of state tuition. Can get a lot more for less to stay in state for both the student athlete and the lacrosse program. Given the fact that many players are coming from private schools with tuitions near 30k-40k per year a full ride to UMD can be beneficial on the pocketbook.

The answer is absolutely not. ask one of the best player's in the country, she ran as fast as should could from Duke, even potentially having to sit out a year. Speaks volumes... If your daughter is getting an offer from Duke, she is getting them from other great academic schools, choose one of those schools...

If you are throwing Duke under the bus, at least say WHY. That player could have left for a myriad of reasons, maybe Duke was not the right fit for her. Don’t scare people away from an amazing institution that by all appearances offers an amazing experience and education for all athletes.

Agree that if Duke is offering it is likely several other top programs would be offering. Not sure what you are answering with your comment "The answer is absolutely not". I assume that you do not think Duke will rebound this year and make the tournament and finish the season in the Top 20. Maybe they will maybe they will not but the question was what has happened, why the downturn?

I do not believe that there is a lack of talent and the University has a lot to offer. I think they will be back Top 20 this year and will remain one of the top 10 - 15 programs for years to come.

Maryland has the Number 1 incoming class... but there are [b]12 incoming Freshman[/b]! . there cant be a lot of scholarship passed around.. I figure they're whacking up 2.5 or 3 max scholarships between the 12 of them..
[/quote]

State School. In state tuition much cheaper than out of state and pretty sure scholarships are based on out of state tuition. Can get a lot more for less to stay in state for both the student athlete and the lacrosse program. Given the fact that many players are coming from private schools with tuitions near 30k-40k per year a full ride to UMD can be beneficial on the pocketbook. [/quote]


Of those Schools, Penn makes most sense, better school. If I wanted to travel, I would consider Northwestern or ND over Duke.