BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys High School Lax

Go SUNY, save the money, and put it towards a graduate degree for your son. That will go farther than lax.

Me, sorry, going through this, now and the past 4 years,and i think Nescac's are overrated, not to mention way to much $$! My sons laughed at me, understood the academics but also the vibe/culture. Then slapped back that the resources are not even close than some schools like UVA and Michigan. (these big state schools offer way more than the limited scope of the nescac schools)

Would not:
put any Nescac over Michigan or UVA
Babson over Brown (wouldn't even put Babson over many Club schools)
You put Ga tech on the list, with that you need to put Clemson, South Carolina, Texas, Vandy.

You mention SUNY, if the school has what your son wants go for it, at least take a visit. But be warned, the better D2/3 and even club teams these days expect a serious commitment - and these are without some of the benefits the D1s have.

VISIT AS MANY SCHOOLS AS YOU CAN. Dont let anyone tell you otherwise

I am not sure it is fair to compare the BIG 10 or ACC to NESCAC. NESCAC schools are not for everyone but I wouldn't dismiss them outright. You are correct that it is an expensive education but the education is excellent with a faculty to student ratio of approx. 8-1 which means that the kids are really learning and developing the ability to think beyond the next exam. I am not saying this is the case for larger schools but it is more difficult especially as many of the classes, especially in the first couple years can have upwards of 500 students and be taught by a graduate student. The NESCAC alumni network both from the school, in general, and lacrosse is exceptional.

By the way, NESCAC's are very generous with financial aide so don't look at the top line costs. Focus on the bottom line which can be significantly less than going to a Michigan or UVA. If you don't need the aide then good for your family and consider the expense a worthwhile one to give your child an excellent head start after graduation. Facts are Facts and the schools listed above have higher graduation rates, starting salaries and endowments (per capita).

By the way, BIG 10, ACC, etc. have great schools like Michigan, Notre Dame, UVA and more. In fact, if you do decide to go to a NESCAC school, you will probably be cheering for one of them on Saturday's in the Fall.

Since this is a lacrosse forum, I will state the obvious that kids dream of playing D1 because those teams are the ones on TV and get most of the press but the time/effort is a grind and not for everyone. If your son wants to play competitive lacrosse but at a more reasonable level of committment, you should consider D3.

I think the list was earnings potential after college. Babson is the highest starting salary after college for a business degree. Brown, UVA, and Michigan are great. GT is the MIT of the south, and if you're an engineer then you're set for life.

please don't get SUNY schools confused with these other schools. I speak firsthand as i trek into the city every AM regretting my decision to go to a SUNY. The SUNYs are great if you want to be an accountant, or go to a grad school... the other prestigious schools are the best path to banking, technology, trading, engineering or entrepreneurship. Plus from a location standpoint... each city is worse than the previous. Albany, Geneseo, Buffalo, Binghamton, Stony Brook.... geez, how depressing

Very good post and thoughtful.

Well said. SUNY is fine but if lax can get you son into a great school that is well recognized, figure out a way to pay for it. There is more than one option to pay for college. Lax is a great sport but why pick your college on your chances of playing in a National Championship? That is a terrible idea. For every D1 starter, there is no less than 10 broken hearts by injury, riding the bench, too much work, mental attitude, etc. College sports is brutal, every recruited player was a star back home.....

What about the Academies Army, Navy , Air Force, USMMA, etc.
Great Education at the right price and guaranteed job after 4 years for at least 5 years and 2 of the 5 they will even pay for your masters degree .......

No doubt a great education and noble to serve your country but it isn't for everyone. If people think the commitment level for D1 lacrosse is a lot, trying adding rigor of academics which are equivalent or better than Ivy education and the physical toll on the military.

This route takes a special kid, Kuddos and much respect to those that have traveled that path or on it. But if you are not one of those kids it is not even a consideration. Going to one of those academies would have been my dram for my son, but wasnt on his radar.

I'm an EVP at a BD in NYC. We have had great results hiring from the top SUNY schools Binghamton, Geneseo and Stony Brook. The education is one thing, its what you do and are willing to sacrifice once you get in the door. Too many kids think because Daddy is rich and he attended an expensive school, he's on the golden path to success. We want kids who are hungry and smart--athletes from top SUNY schools usually fit the bill. We don't need the baggage of the entitled so please don't discount a SUNY education.

We talking starting salery or Mid Career. because as great as it is to start out high, I would think we are talking sustainable mid career stats

Ill continue to disagree on a few points especially Babson being above Michigan UVA (even in Business) Lehigh, RPI, Stevens Tech, and the likes of Suny maritime. Babson is yes, shutter the thought ranked over nescacs. (And this could be the difference of stem and business) but Babson is not a top 10 school like I beleive you are touting it. But does it matter when it is splitting hairs. but using my argument earlier. Having the chance and option to go to Babson or a bigger school TAKE THE BIGGER SCHOOL!!!!

You can always make a big school small. You can never make a small school big. As well, (sans tufts) the big schools have just as many graduates at the caliber of the the entire enrollment at some of those the nescacs. and yeah, these big schools also have as many graduates that would barley skirt by at the nescacs - but thats kinda like life. Like the academies, Nescacs take a special kid of kid. Better make sure thats a good fit for your kid. and if you are in the same tax bracket, you are paying close to full boat

and since we are talking about high achieving students, the 12.6 gets fuzzy. Take as much $$ as you can in academic dollars, if you have the stats $$ shouldn't could against the teams budget!

Now back to babson - it is a good school but not good enough to be getting this much ink here. If you are considering Babson, just check out all the schools in the area ( just like the earning list that included Babson here are some of them Bentley Boston College Holy Cross WPI why not stop at Bryant ).

Figure out a way? Sure, great, I’ll just figure out a way. Maybe bankrupt my family. Perhaps remortgage the house. Maybe the other two can skip college and do something else so the lacrosse guy can go D1. How silly.

NESCAC schools are great, but you better have top academics.....particularly for Amherst and Williams. Student athletes trying to go to these schools need better grades and test scores than similar lax players trying to go to Harvard or Yale. Coaches have less pull with Admissions at NESCACs.

I get what they are saying "figure it out" not for lax reason of academics, but because for every SUNY applicant one takes, someone else is taking 4 for candidates from the other schools. Law of averages. and for that NYC guy, out of NYC or NYS how much juice does any SUNY carry. You need to figure out if the juice is worth the squeeze.

exactly, and if they are that good at lax, sorry but they arent going Nescac. my point exactly.

I thought i posted last night about the boys going to yale harvard cornell and brown. they had some impressive grades, not 100% sure their standard test were stellar. No way they were trading Ivy for Nescac and if not Ivy it was Duke ND UVA or MichiganI also know there are some boys with stellar grades that opted out of the sport. Some at the SUNYs that have lacrosse. And in a few cases better than any '19 recruit

I don't think you are right when you say "if they were that good at lax, sorry they aren't going to NESCAC" and I think you are flat our wrong that a kid that has the ability to play at UVA, Yale, etc. is opting out of playing lacrosse. Sure there is the exception and I am sure you know that one kid but most kids playing high level lacrosse from an early age through HS don't want it to end. This is why some very good D1 level players opt for NESCAC or NEWMAC (MIT) instead of Ivy or ACC type schools. They still want to play but don't want the 6am workouts 5 days a week in the fall and all the intensity that goes along with that.

Like it was said earlier in this thread, at a young age every kid wants to play for Duke, Maryland, UVA, etc. but as they grow up and mature some of these kids recognize its not just about lacrosse and they want to do other things but keep playing competitive lacrosse so they opt for D3, club or that rare kid that hangs up the helmet.

This thread was not about berating SUNY schools or determining a kid was not good enough for Yale so he went to Babson. It was meant to evaluate what schools have the best combined experience of academics / lacrosse. By the way, nobody is saying that if you get a degree from SUNY you will not be as successful as someone from Harvard. It just takes significantly more effort. Personally, I don't care where you went to school. If you played lacrosse I may not hire you but I will definitely give you an opportunity in my company.

Definitely not silly. Is there anything more important than your child's education? Other than their health, no, IMO. Where there is a will there is a way to pay for college. Should a child run up $100k in loans, of course not.

Personally, I think they should have some skin in the game. $10k loan per year may keep them honest and focused on their school work. After college they can live at home for a year and pay $40k off. Student should also have job at home and in college (athletes most likely have zero time for job at college) .

Rich people on LI can pay for D1, poor people can get a ton of financial aid for a hard working smart student. Middle class/upper middle on LI have it tough. Even there, lifestyle changes can help a lot.

Seems to me, most parents lease 2 cars, big vacations and eat out 3 times a week. Always trying to keep up with the Jones'. Is it that hard to scale back? What about a second job? That's how my father got us through college.

Everyone is in different situations but to say that sacrificing for a respected D1 college for your child is "silly", is plain ignorant.

Wall Street guy again. Harvard or SUNY New Paltz...makes no difference to us when hiring. What I see is the alumni bringing in "their guys" and the competition that breeds within the firm. Fairfield guys want to hire Fairfield grads and they compete against Binghamton guys--it creates a great atmosphere. How hard are you willing to work? Don't burden your kids or your family with student debt and if they are that driven to get a top tier education, someone will figure out a way to get it paid for. But the majority should look for a balanced college experience and for me that's D3.

D2 provides competitive lax also with mostly smaller schools that some kids might be looking for. And there's athletic scholarship $ to be had as well as academic

What is silly is to simplify something into "find a way". For most normal middle-class families that doesn't exist without major sacrifices. if you have more than one child "just finding a way" may not be an option. What lifestyle change are you referring to? Skipping the weekly dinner out? Not buying the needed family car? Maybe the other kids should skip field hockey camp and lacrosse camp? Don't use phrases like finding a way without offering a specific, it's lame and silly.

Don't denigrate NESCAC as there is lots of top-end lacrosse played there. As an example, Jordan Wolff (Amherst) was under consideration for the Tewaarton last year The point is not that the lacrosse is weak there. The point is that these kids are at the very top academically......above the Ivys. So the mistake is thinking you are going for Yale and, if that doesn't work out, you can always go to Williams. As above, your scores may be good enough for Yale but not Williams. For certain kids, NESCAC is gold: top academics, school/athletic balance, etc, But, again, don't fool yourself into thinking that these are some types of safety schools. Many a kid has been left at the altar by top NESCACs when the coach couldn't get them through admissions.

Please stop. For the most part the only people who hold NESCAC's in higher regard than Ivy's are the parents of kids who attend NESCAC schools. There is not "lots of top-end lacrosse played there". NESCAC's are good schools with good lacrosse but please stop they are not for everyone and they are not necessarily better than the Ivy's, Duke, Notre Dame etc.. in fact many would consider several large state universities better all around.

Exactly!

Try reading again. My primary point was that good lacrosse gets played at NESCACS, but they are not for everyone. My second point was not that they are better than Ivys but harder academically for recruited athletes to get past admissions. Nobody said NESCACS are overall better schools than Ivys. That is all....

I specifically mentioned schools like Michigan and UVA and ND and Duke. Because in 10th grade a lot of these kids considered those NESCACs and now they are at those (Michigan UVA Duke ND) schools. Some of them even considered Centennial and Liberty conferences instead or those big state club programs instead of Nescac. Binghamton is filled with students that would be able to play Nescac and were academically eligible but arnt playing.

But lets get into a more debatable conversion can NESCAC really beat a mid or lower teir D1 or Mid or high Tier DII. Could a South Carolina, Ga tech FSU Arizona Clemson or even Liberty or Chapman Club beat Nescac absolutely . Could a Mule Swar or Hav beat Wilm A'herst or Wes?

Go to the school you like, the school you can afford and one you can see cheering and visiting the next 50 years, but remember even those guys from NCState wish they still had lax

Your argument sounds like the one poeple make about college football or basketball vs. the pros. I remember when people used to say UNLV in their heyday could beat a lower level NBA team. It's not the same comparison to consider NESCAC vs. mid / lower level D1 programs. Top level NESCAC and other D3 schools like Cabrini would absolutely be competitive with these programs but you will never know because they won't play or scrimmage as there is no benefit. Many of the kids going to Wesleyan, Williams, Amherst and even MIT were highly recruited D1 athletes that chose a NESCAC school. There is a big difference once you arrive and spend four years training 20-30 per week all year vs. NESCACS which have a light "captains" practice in the Fall and then ramp things up in the Spring but there is no mistaking the talent of many of the players entering freshman year are on par with D1 lacrosse players. These kids don't think of going to a NESCAC school as a consillation but a choice. If we are talking purely lacrosse then D1 outshines all others even professional lacrosse. When discussing academics alongside lacrosse which is what this thread was originally about, the NESCACS are on par with every IVY, ACC, BIG10, etc. program.

What is lame and silly is asking for specific financial advice on how to put your 3 children thru college from a lax forum. I wish you the best.

OMG... Stop already with the NESCACS. They are not on par with every Ivy, ACC, Big 10 etc... program. The NESCACS are good schools but they cater to a small segment of the population. Those who choose to attend obviously think highly of the schools but other than that not so much.

Not asking for advice, simply stating your idiotic statement "find a way". I found a way to finance my children's education, many others do not have that luxury. Find a way to some brains, dolt.

Any predictions for Nassau & Suffolk County Champs at each Class?

Shoreham seems to be a lock to win their 5th straight Class C Suffolk County Championship with their key eturners and FO Duke commit.

Ward Melville will repeat as Class A Suffolk Champions with their deep and stacked roster.

Manhesst & Garden City will duke it out for the Nassau County Class B Title.

Massapequa should be the favorite to win thier 4th straight Nassau Class A title despite graduating a handful of D1 commits.

A handful is 9.

WEST ISLIP

The boy who transferred back to SWR was not the fogo going to Duke it was a short stick defensive player

Watched the MLL Championship today. Too bad a great game was ruined by bad behavior. What an embarrassment to Lacrosse and to think that kid was a Princeton grad knowing young kids were watching!. Guess you can’t teach class!

Bad bad scene

Yeah, because none of those little boys ever saw PARENTS act that way at some ridiculous T-Shirt tournament. Spare me the silliness.

West Islip will make the playoffs. That is our goal for the season. We have never beaten three village/ward Melville and I don't see that happening this year, but hey, that is why you play the games. Maybe we'll get lucky.

Manhasset will be beat GC, it will not be close either.

SWR is the LI favorite in C. They will play CSH out of Nassau.

Massapequa, Farmingdale, Syosset and Port will vie for the A title with equal odds to play WM in the LIC.

West Islip will be in the B division this year, Ward Melville will be a non league if they play each other and will have nothing to do with WI making the playoffs.

WEST ISLIP SENIOR HIGH SCHOOL enrollment 1039
Class B for boys lacrosse is 765-1059

Nassau A will not be challenged. Massapequa is still very good, Syosset has gotten worse every year, Farmingdale will most likely be the second seed with Port and Syosset about the same. GC/Manhasset will be close as it always is. CSH winning C is not exactly a surprise.