BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2018-2019 Women's DI, II & III College Lacrosse Season

Louisville had more than half the program transfer. They fired old head coach. Bulk of team is rising Juniors/Sophomores. New coach (Scott Teeter) will right the ship before long and get them back to a competitive program.

Ohio State just fired their staff. I would expect new staff will bring about changes with better success rather quickly (see Michigan's quick turn around).

Albany has a new staff, Katie Rowan's 1st year wasn't terrible. I hope they improve enough to be competitive with SBU in the America East.

Looks like good weather today for the games.

On the D1 side I like Maryland, Northwestern, North Carolina and Boston College.

This weekend the D3 games get better as it is down to the Sweet !6. NESCAC has 5 of the 16 but will lose at least one team as Middlebury plays Bowdoin. My picks on the D3 side are Middlebury, Franklin & Marshall, Gettysburg, Wesleyan, York, Tufts, Amherst and Salisbury.

I’m here in Boston checking out the action.

The four best teams move on to the Final Four in D1 Women’s Lacrosse. Congratulations.

The NESCAC continues to dominate D3 with four of the Elite 8 teams. I’ll go with Middlebury, Gettysburg, Tufts and Salisbury to make the Final Four. Gettysburg still the team to beat.

NESCAC a one goal game away from sweeping into the Final Four (Amherst lost to Salisbury 8-7). Congrats to Middlebury, Tufts, Wesleyan and Salisbury.

If D3 lacrosse fits your daughter's academic profile there is good lacrosse, especially the NESCAC. Check it out.

How the Pre-season Top 20 fared.

1 - Boston College: Still in the mix but do not think they will win the National Championship.
2 - Maryland: Defense and overall athleticism and speed will lead to a National Championship.
3 - North Carolina: Round 3 coming up with BC... Game will come down to Defense and goalie play.
4 - JMU: 2018 National Champs were overrated in 19'. Good year, tough schedule. Not Top 10 in 2019.

5 - Stony Brook: Also overrated to start the season. Good year but off from recent past. Not Top 10.
6 - Florida: Six losses all to good teams. Finish outside the Top 10.
7 - Northwestern: Back in the mix. Defense improved as the season went on and has lead to the Final Four. Maryland will beat them.
8 - Princeton: Very good year, # 8 preseason about right. 5 or 6 end of season. Just outside of final four.
9 - Loyola: Tough draw for tournament, could have been the 8 seed over Michigan. 9 was about right to start the season. 8 - 9 to end the year.
10 - Penn: Also about right at 10. Finish the year a little lower but not by much.
11 - Towson: Way too high at 11. Tigers play a tough schedule but not a Top 20 team this year.
12 - Penn State: Another overrated team for 2019. Very tough schedule. Not sure if they are even Top 25 this year.
13 - Navy: Solid team. Top 20 finish.
14 - Virginia Tech: ACC very difficult. Back to earth after strong 2018. Not Top 20. One of the Programs that should be better.
15 - Syracuse: Great year. Finished way above where they started. Finish at 5 - 7.
16 - Virginia: Also good year, also finished above where they started. Right there with Princeton and Syracuse. Finish 5 - 7.
17 - Colorado: Good year. finished a little higher than 17.
18 - Stanford: Good year. 18 about right.
19 - Denver. Great year. Top 10 finish.
20 - Notre Dame: Great year. Soft OOC schedule gave them nice record and confidence but hurt them with NCAA seeding. Top 10 finish.
21 - USC: Tough one goal loss to Denver keeps them out of Elite 8. Solid Top 20 finish.
22 - Georgetown: Came on strong at the end. Great year for the Hoya's. Top 20 finish.
23 - Hopkins: about right. Solid team.
24 - Duke: Surprised not in The NCAA Tournament. Top 20 Team.
25 - Dartmouth: Good year. Tough team. 15 - 20 finish.

Good Luck to all ion the Final Four.

Biggest jump: Michigan and High Point.
Biggest fall: Towson and Penn State.

Who will make the jump and surprise next year, who will fall out of the Top 25?

Thought I posted this earlier ,not trying to start nonsense just curious. I am familiar with D1 and D2 and how they compare to each other in terms of how talent etc. Just curious how does D3 in general compare with D2.

A couple of years ago D3 Hamilton, which did not make the NCAA’s that year, beat eventual D2 champ Florida Southern in Florida. Florida Southern did not lose again that year. In general the top D3 would be competitive with the top D2. D3 has far more teams than D2 and the talent does thin out; early round D3 tournament games can get ugly when auto bids play more competitive teams. D2 talent drops off far more quickly than D3.

D1 also has a talent drop as well. I seen some terrible lacrosse in the 50th percentile.

I watched some D3 and D1 this past weekend in Boston. It was some great lacrosse. D2 does their own thing with a much smaller tournament and that is simply because of the amount of talent in D2.

Michigan way overrated! I understand its good for lacrosse to have them as an 8 seed, but the fact that teams like them and Stanford make it and Duke doesnt is laughable. Duke kills both those teams this year

Duke played a terriblly weak schedule and beat exactly none of the top teams on their slate until surprising ND in ACC playoffs. VA Tech was a sub .500 team in the end.

Unfortunately for them, Georgetown won their conference tournament. Had they not, Duke gets in. Stanford (Stony Brook and Colorado) and Michigan (Denver, Colorado, Dartmouth, Penn State and Hopkins) had multiple wins vs teams that were top 10-30 during season. That is what selection committee takes into account for selecting tournament teams. Like they say in the fight game, don't leave it in the hands of the judges. Duke needs to schedule better teams in their non-conference games next year and win some of those games. Don't rely on a team like Denver having to win their conference for Duke to back in.

Duke plays a very difficult schedule. UNC 2X, Boston College, Syracuse, Northwestern, Virginia, Notre Dame 2X, Penn. Thats 9 games vs Top 20 RPI teams (5 games vs top 5 RPI teams).

“Duke plays a very difficult schedule. UNC 2X, Boston College, Syracuse, Northwestern, Virginia, Notre Dame 2X, Penn. Thats 9 games vs Top 20 RPI teams (5 games vs top 5 RPI teams).”

Duke plays a weak non conference schedule and lost 8 out of those 9 games you mention .They did not deserve to get into the tournament because they won 1 significant game and their out of conference schedule was an embarrassment for any team that considers itself to be a top level team .

Duke is in the ACC so they have to play UNC and Syracuse and BC...
Northwestern and Penn were their Top 20 games... A lot of the other games esp. the last game they played against VCU are against unranked teams. Its kind of what ND did this year. It doesnt help to play an easier schedule when it comes to NCAAs'

Baldbear - Appreciate your unbiased input and support of D3, but citing the Hamilton over Florida Southern game every time the subject comes up is like people who talk about the Tom Brady being drafted in the 6th round. It's the exception, not the rule.

I hear you, but since D2 and D3 rarely, if ever, play you can’t say it’s the exception. If there was more data (ie games played) then I can see your point. I happened to be there which is why I reference it. Great game. Speed of play and sticks were great.

My point is D2 and D3, among the competitive teams, is similar in talent, which was the original question.

I read somewhere that if you used todays analytics Brady would have been drafted lower than the 6th round. Never know.

It is not who they play that matters according to selection for NCAA tournament, it is who they beat. They lost against every top team they played except for 1 (ND in the ACC Tourney).

They didn't deserve to be in the tournament this year. In 2018 Duke played a more challenging out of conference schedule. They lost more than they won and didn't qualify for tournament due to their sub .500 record. They tried it both ways in 2018/2019 and didn't get in either year. Bottom line is they need more wins against quality opponents.

Dukes schedule is far from easy. Other than the usual suspects (MD, UNC, NU, Syracuse, BC, Princeton, Virginia, Florida, PSU...) What teams play a tougher or equivalent schedule? Not many teams play the type of schedule That Duke plays.

Duke is an excellent program, easily one of the Top 20 Programs in the country.

They haven't been lately...

Is it really the exception? Tony Romo undrafted, Joe Montana third round, etc - I bet there's a lot more Heisman Trophy winners that stunk in the NFL then were good. Albert Pujols 13 round, mike piazza 62 round, wade boggs 7 round etc. look at the 6 players picked before steph curry. There's a never ending list of can't miss players who missed badly and plenty of players who in spite of all the negativity from so called experts seemed to flourish

Yes, they have. Name 20 programs that have consistently done better over the past five years.

What are you looking at? What's your definition of lately? In the last four seasons Duke is 38-35 with ONE tournament appearance four years ago in which they won the first round game and got beat fairly easily in the second round, is this your idea of success? I would think even the Duke faithful wouldn't want to lower the bar to these levels. The game appears to be passing Kimel by, she has yet to figured out playing in the shot clock free movement era

Duke has finished the season ranked in the Top 20 in 8 of the past 10 years. They did not finish in the Top 20 in 2017 or 2018 but they were ranked 16th in the most recent coaches poll and will most likely be ranked in the final poll of the season this year. A teams record in Division I womens lacrosse is not an indication of where they fall in relation to the rest of the teams. Duke for example lost 8 games this year. They lost to current #2, #3 "twice", #4, #5, #6, #7 and #12 and they have a win over #7. Even if they finish the year ranked 20th that puts them ahead of 96 teams. Duke is absolutely one of the Top 20 Programs. The ACC is brutal and if you are off just a bit you will not win many games. In addition to their ACC schedule they played Penn and Northwestern that is a very difficult schedule.

Take a look at Villanova, a team with a record of 10 - 8 very similar to Duke's 11 -8. There is no comparison, Duke beat Villanova by 10 goals 19 -9 and it was never close as it was 8 -0 in the first eight minutes of the game. Villanova played three good teams, Duke, Navy, Princeton and none of the games were even close. Nova also lost to Georgetown and the game was never really in doubt. Similar record to Duke but they are not in the same ballpark as Duke.

Duke has lost its fair share of games in recent years but they are still one of the 20 or so best programs in Division I.

I would expect Duke to be Top 15 -20 again next year if not higher.

Duke has finished the season ranked in the Top 20 in 8 of the past 10 years. They did not finish in the Top 20 in 2017 or 2018 but they were ranked 16th in the most recent coaches poll and will most likely be ranked in the final poll of the season this year. A teams record in Division I womens lacrosse is not an indication of where they fall in relation to the rest of the teams. Duke for example lost 8 games this year. They lost to current #2, #3 "twice", #4, #5, #6, #7 and #12 and they have a win over #7. Even if they finish the year ranked 20th that puts them ahead of 96 teams. Duke is absolutely one of the Top 20 Programs. The ACC is brutal and if you are off just a bit you will not win many games. In addition to their ACC schedule they played Penn and Northwestern that is a very difficult schedule.

Take a look at Villanova, a team with a record of 10 - 8 very similar to Duke's 11 -8. There is no comparison, Duke beat Villanova by 10 goals 19 -9 and it was never close as it was 8 -0 in the first eight minutes of the game. Villanova played three good teams, Duke, Navy, Princeton and none of the games were even close. Nova also lost to Georgetown and the game was never really in doubt. Similar record to Duke but they are not in the same ballpark as Duke.

Duke has lost its fair share of games in recent years but they are still one of the 20 or so best programs in Division I.

I would expect Duke to be Top 15 -20 again next year if not higher.


Let me start by saying Duke is a to 20 program at this point but are close to being moved out. Duke plays a difficult schedule strictly as a result of being in the ACC and more than 20 other teams play a more difficult non conference schedule. To say they are a definite top 20 any of the last 3 seasons is ill informed at best. The thing is its Duke University so honestly they should be much more competitive than they are. Not sure what the problem is down there but I have heard the excuse that the standards of getting into the school make recruiting the best athletes difficult , I just don't buy that. I do think being in such close proximity to UNC may hurt them .

my daughter plays for an ACC team that is still alive, and Duke was one of the toughest opponents they faced all year, if they played in any conference other than the ACC or Big Ten they would be conference champs. I thought they had a great team this year and totally agree they deserved to be in tournament they would destroy Michigan and/or Stanford.

Going to call BS on this one. So you are saying your kid plays for UNC or BC and Duke was one of the toughest teams they played , was this when UNC beat them 19-5 or when BC beat them 20-12. They would destroy Michigan and Stanford is comical.

Dook lost to Penn. Penn did not even win the Ivy. Dook #4 in the Ivy this year at best. Dook is a strong program but stop with the BS. Top 20 yes, Best in every conference no.

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Scheduling out of conference games is not so simple. Duke plays a very difficult conference schedule and this year they had Penn and Northwestern out of conference. Their schedule is difficult enough as is. If Georgetown did not upset Denver and win their conference championship Duke would have been in the NCAA Tournament. Admission standards at Duke are more difficult than most schools but they have "slots" and there are many great players that have the grades and test scores to get into Duke as a recruited athlete. Duke's proximity to UNC does not hurt them in any way.

Coaching is the biggest issue at Duke. One aspect of coaching is recruiting and Duke fell behind during the heyday of early recruiting. They brought in some great recruits but they missed on others because other schools were more aggressive. Missing on one or two studs per year will hurt especially when playing the schedule that Duke plays.

There is no question that Duke is one of the Top 20 Programs. They have had 2 maybe 3 down years (for Duke) but they will be back fighting to be in the Top 10 -15 consistently going forward.

Michigan is the only non traditional power that I see moving into the 15 - 20 programs that are able to be competitive every year.

Next year, Duke has to beat some quality opponents. That's the formula for selection into NCAA Tournament. We can all speculate on this site, but the fact remains, you have to beat "Top 30 " teams on your schedule in order to get into the tournament. They didn't have enough the last few years for the committee to select them. It's on them as a program ((players and coaches) to get it done in the future...

Agree that Duke has been hurt by their own recruiting policies. That may be the degree of difficulty to get in, being reluctant to chase early recruits, and bit of a snooty attitude to only go after Duke camp groupies. I think this new “no contact” until the shotgun start Sept1st is really going to shake up the quality of all schools incoming recruiting classes. Some will definitely benefit, while other will be hurt.

Scheduling out of conference games is not that difficult and somehow UNC ,NW, MD,JMU, UVA and 20 other teams were able to schedule more difficult out of conference games.

To say Dukes proximity to UNC does not hurt them in any way is naive. When you have top recruits lets say from the North East or Mid Atlantic who want to go to a top lacrosse program in a warmer climate and still stay on the East coast only a few schools come to mind. Travel to either school is the same so many of the top recruits have a choice between the two.If these top recruits are choosing UNC over Duke than it impacts them. Maybe its the facilities, the student body, the chance to win titles, the town surrounding the campus, but I know a few who have chosen UNC over Duke when they had the option to go to either.

Saying other schools were more aggressive in recruiting meaning what?

Duke is most likely a top 20 program but not making the tournament several times and when they did not getting more than 1 win has them teetering on the edge.

All the BS aside, there's a top 6 and the rest doesn't really matter, the Ivy's and schools like ND have much more stringent admissions requirements when it comes to athletes. Duke sent a letter to my daughter indicating they wanted 3.2 GPA, 1310 SAT and/or 26 ACT, but quickly added that there was still a significant amount of flexibility. Most kids can achieve a 3.2 GPA if they just show up and a 26 on ACT is not that difficult

They sent a letter to your daughter telling her what scores they wanted , I doubt that .

Why would you doubt that, I know several people who received the same letter and I would bet your club coach or director has seen it as well, perhaps your a little salty because your kid didn't receive one? Do yourself a favor going forward and ask around before making yourself look foolish and uniformed

Nah , you clearly heard about some fictitious letter and believed it . First off the coaches do not want to put that stuff in writing as they don’t want some lost going around telling people their business. Second I know for a fact that those scores vary depending on how much they want your kid . Third my kid was actually offered a scholarship at Duke and you are told verbally those kinds of things . Why would a coach want to put that in a written letter and I can tell you the SAT score they quoted was considerably lower than that .Please tell us the other schools that sent your kid a letter telling her they have these reduced standards for her admittance .

A few years back my son received

Their proximity to UNC does not hurt them. Many other schools were more aggressive with early recruiting than Duke. While Duke was watching, evaluating and making their list of top recruits other top programs were being much more aggressive and making offers. The top 20 - 30 players were all receiving offers from the top programs. Duke did their best to hold off but many of the top kids committed elsewhere. Duke garnered their fair share of talent but they probably missed on a couple of their top prospect s each year. Having an extra 4 or 5 studs on the roster goes a long way and would have most likely equated to several wins over the past three years.

In the end there are only so many blue chip recruits to go around and if you miss out on them you will not win many games vs top 10 -15 teams.

My D1 picks Maryland and BC
My D3 picks Tufts Middlebury

See you in Baltimore

Maryland wins it all. Defense, Goalie and overall athleticism will prevail.

I don't like it but they will win.

Maryland over BC by 4
M.Taylor wins Tewarrton

How many coaching openings are there in D 1?

Some observations:

Defense wins.

On the top teams few if any freshmen see playing time.

At the top programs the large majority of players continue to play (they do not quit). I have read many times on this site that 50% of the players will quit. That is not true for the top players who play for the top programs.

Highly touted HS players do go on to become big time players at big time programs.

Officials are at best mediocre. There are way too many bad / wrong calls that have a big impact on the game.