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 Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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There are so many reasonable solutions to this, its hard to understand why change has not occurred yet. And many of these solutions involve the club/tournament (they are the same people) owners making more money.
"Travel" sports isn't what it used to be. In years past, the best kid in town (in whatever sport it was) played for some select team somewhere. That was it. Now, a TON of kids play "travel". I am not trying to disparage these kids. Its great that they are playing, and it beats xbox. But travel sports have now grown well beyond just the kids that will get college scholarships and/or go pro. An example of all of this is the fact that some kids are on travel lacrosse teams that would get smoked by their own town team - because the top kids on their town team (and other town teams) are playing for higher level travel teams.
Focusing on lacrosse - in northern climates, the town season is very short. Travel lets these kids play another 6-8 weeks or so, and the kids love the tournaments. Owners should capitalize on this growing market and gear their programing to these kids. You can still have it be grade based at the AAA (or elite, or AA, or whatever name you want to give), and make this level relatively shallow to ensure that only the top players get in and that it will be competitive for these kids. But for everyone else (and this includes the many teams that market themselves as AA or elite but really aren't) age based is much better. And it can be either calendar year of Sept-Aug, I don't care and I don't think it makes a difference.
The bottom line is that there is no more growth in the area of elite players. Every single elite player is already playing club lacrosse. But there is still more room for growth amongst every other level of player. June and July provide very little competition in terms of kids sports and activities. If the club owners were smart, they would be presiding over clubs and tournaments with all of the following teams - AAA (can still do it by grade), AA, A, B. But mediocre or newer players can not compete against older kids from some far away state, so it hasn't really gotten off the ground on the lower ends. But if you make sure that everyone is within a 12 mos. birth window, you can have competitive fun lacrosse amongst teams from all over the country at all kinds of levels of skill and athleticism.
And for the "sorry your kid got cut crowd", my kids have all made very good teams and played well. But I have seen too many people be one and done with a club due to holdbacks, and say things like "why should I spend money and do all of this travel to watch my kid play against 14 year olds when he is only 12".
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Some clubs like The Edge (Canadiens) play each and every team down one age division at tournaments. Justifying it by declaring every kid intends to PG. Its up to tournament directors to police the clubs, on an individual basis, people will always look for a way to cheat.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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IMO Rankings updates after this this weekend as tourney season begins.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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There are so many reasonable solutions to this, its hard to understand why change has not occurred yet. And many of these solutions involve the club/tournament (they are the same people) owners making more money.
"Travel" sports isn't what it used to be. In years past, the best kid in town (in whatever sport it was) played for some select team somewhere. That was it. Now, a TON of kids play "travel". I am not trying to disparage these kids. Its great that they are playing, and it beats xbox. But travel sports have now grown well beyond just the kids that will get college scholarships and/or go pro. An example of all of this is the fact that some kids are on travel lacrosse teams that would get smoked by their own town team - because the top kids on their town team (and other town teams) are playing for higher level travel teams.
Focusing on lacrosse - in northern climates, the town season is very short. Travel lets these kids play another 6-8 weeks or so, and the kids love the tournaments. Owners should capitalize on this growing market and gear their programing to these kids. You can still have it be grade based at the AAA (or elite, or AA, or whatever name you want to give), and make this level relatively shallow to ensure that only the top players get in and that it will be competitive for these kids. But for everyone else (and this includes the many teams that market themselves as AA or elite but really aren't) age based is much better. And it can be either calendar year of Sept-Aug, I don't care and I don't think it makes a difference.
The bottom line is that there is no more growth in the area of elite players. Every single elite player is already playing club lacrosse. But there is still more room for growth amongst every other level of player. June and July provide very little competition in terms of kids sports and activities. If the club owners were smart, they would be presiding over clubs and tournaments with all of the following teams - AAA (can still do it by grade), AA, A, B. But mediocre or newer players can not compete against older kids from some far away state, so it hasn't really gotten off the ground on the lower ends. But if you make sure that everyone is within a 12 mos. birth window, you can have competitive fun lacrosse amongst teams from all over the country at all kinds of levels of skill and athleticism.
And for the "sorry your kid got cut crowd", my kids have all made very good teams and played well. But I have seen too many people be one and done with a club due to holdbacks, and say things like "why should I spend money and do all of this travel to watch my kid play against 14 year olds when he is only 12". I agree 100% but it is up to you guys on the east coast to fix it. These are your rules we are playing by.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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IMO Rankings updates after this this weekend as tourney season begins. Looking forward to it! As someone here noted recently, so hard to know quality of 2023 teams now that they added their holdbacks after WSYL.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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IMO Rankings 6/18/18
Decent showings by area boys for most part as PrimeTime did well at NALF post WSYL in MD and Express North won a couple of games too. Preds a solid showing on LI and compted with most national level LI teams as they looked much larger post WSYL qualifier. 2-Way and Eclipse on sidelines and Rhino got smacked around up in MA. Lower level teams all lost or played in B/C tourneys. Teams that have not played a real tournament yet hard to gauge how strong hold back team is. On that note backup teams or second teams are not factored in as its almost impossible to judge an entire organizations strength.
IMO Rankings 2023
1. Primetime
2. Predators
3. 2-Way
4. Express North, Eclipse
6. Rhino
7. LoneWolf
8. Warriors, Swash, Ballers, etc.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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prime time 2025 is horrible, 0-10 year to date
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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True but current rankings are for 2023. I will release 2024 rankings later this week.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Anyone doing that reginal thing that is supposed to be like the ole empires state games. (And not the ones 3/4 years ago - I mean like 35 years ago.)
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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2024 rankings
ECLIPSE
prime time
express north
2 way
predators
91 tri state
warriors
3d
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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IMO Rankings 6/18/18
IMO Rankings 2023
1. Primetime
2. Predators
3. 2-Way
4. Express North, Eclipse
6. Rhino
7. LoneWolf
8. Warriors, Swash, Ballers, etc.
Can't argue except Eclipse seems better after WSYL now that they get all those holdbacks again while Express North lost a lot of games last 2 weeks. Might want add Pride tied #7 (no idea what LoneWolf is but they have a good name). Also TriState 91 Select tied at #7 seems about right.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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I agree with the ties at #7 TS, 91 not bad. Eclipse hasn't played much yet so hard to gauge. LoneWolf is remnants of SuperStar and other teams. Who is Pride?
IMO Rankings 2023
1. Primetime
2. Predators
3. 2-Way
4. Eclipse, Express North
6. Rhino
7. TS 91 Select, LoneWolf,
9. 3d 91 Tri-State, Pride
11. Ballers, Swash, Warriors
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Pride is new out of Pleasantville and Yonkers. Saw them at a tournament a few weeks ago. Not bad for a brand new team but they mostly played B/C teams. Hard to fit them into this list when most of the second teams from the top 5 here would probably beat them. Should probably keep this list to the top AA teams in Westchester and maybe a separate list for A/B teams.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Yorktown was dominating games with their Seniors and Juniors, but against John Jay they played Freshman and Sophomores. What caused the change and why didn't they make the adjustment at halftime. Why not play kids who have been playing so well?
Which games? They lost to John Jay twice this year. Don't tell me Greeley. They played the same kids in both JJ games and lost. I think that's the point being made. John Jay games were coaches differently. I think the message was sent after the first lost to JJ, then Ytown made no changes in second game. Feel terrible for the players. Please. Just stop it. Even though you're anonymous, we've all met you a thousand times, complaining about coaches, or the refs, or something. Two very good teams played two very good games, with two very good coaches, who certainly know more about lacrosse than most if not all of us. You sound like the guy who choked. Its called accountability, when you claim to be a great coach you had better deliver on the field and leave your agendas home.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Getting back to another contested issue:
town teams are age based and Most club teams have some hod backs as they are grade based. When kids get to a certain grade, not age colleges will notice some of them. They all want bigger, faster, stronger, more experienced plsyers. College coaches don't worry if a kid is a year older, in fact most appreciate the older recruits as they tend to be more college ready students and athletes.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Westchester War Games tournament just happened. A nice "B" tourney that draws more teams each year. Where were the bigger area clubs? No Eclipse, Express N, 2W, PT. 9+1 there in force as they own the tourney I think. Perhaps club politics keeps area teams away. Some Preds teams there. Disappointed so many local clubs traveled so far away to other tourneys when this tournament happens in their backyards. Everyone has their reasons/excuses. Still, at least send B teams there! Glad a bunch of area clubs and smaller unknown clubs showed up though! Swashbucklers, Lone Wolf, Sharks, I like how new teams emerge.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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2022 Predators are a very good team. There middies are beasts. Them and Outlaws battled out in fl$ tourney this weekend.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Anybody see that mom cat fight at that 6th grade game at Westchester War Games? What happened?
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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IMO 2023 Rankings
6/25/18
Very tough weekend for most of our local teams. Primetime played very well against some of nations strongest teams in LI. Preds won a "A" braakcet at Ware Games but played weaker teams. Express North 2-3 at same event , not bad including win over Eclipse. 2-Way in lower toureny in NJ got spanked 1-4. Rest all playing cath up.
1 PrimeTime
2. Preds
3. 2-Way
4. Express North
5. Eclipse
6. Rhino
7. LoneWolf
8. Swash, Pride, 91 TS, 3d TS Ballers
2024 Rankings
1. Eclipse
2. PrimeTime
3. 2-Way
4. Express North
5. Preds
6. loneWolf
7. Rhino
8. All others
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Hard to believe 2023 rankings 2way would be ranked above eclipse and North??
It doesn’t matter but it appears these rankings are totally subjective
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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I was trying to give 2Way benefit of a doubt but i have no problem putting them 5 as that's probabaly where they ought to be.
1. Primetime
2. Preds
3. Express North
4. Eclipse
5. 2-Way
6. Rhino
7. Lonewolf
8. Rest
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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preds moms cant handle there liquor. shame because both teams played a good game. even better game between team 24 east and preds in championship.preds very well coached and great sportsmanship. all good
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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express north not even in same league as preds
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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How will primetime do in World Series? How many boys that played this past weekend are ineligible teams play in Denver
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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who coaches predators 2024? any insight to quality of experience would be greatly appreciated !!
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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if this is any help my sons team played them twice this past weekend and just from watching that team is very well coached. non stop teaching going on that sideline. tip my cap to there coaching staff!!!
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Coaching staff of predators is on their website. 2024 team is coached by JJ Liang and Joe Capalbo (was HC at Westchester War games) and two assistants the older one from Notre Dame and the younger, a current UNC player. Great coaching.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Anybody see that mom cat fight at that 6th grade game at Westchester War Games? What happened? Now this board is getting good. I know, "what a lowbrow topic!" But perfect for the internet, Need info.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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I was trying to give 2Way benefit of a doubt but i have no problem putting them 5 as that's probabaly where they ought to be.
1. Primetime
2. Preds
3. Express North
4. Eclipse
5. 2-Way
6. Rhino
7. Lonewolf
8. Rest Good correction-- 2way lost games to mid-level teams in NJ according to scores.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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I was trying to give 2Way benefit of a doubt but i have no problem putting them 5 as that's probabaly where they ought to be.
1. Primetime
2. Preds
3. Express North
4. Eclipse
5. 2-Way
6. Rhino
7. Lonewolf
8. Rest IMO 2023 Rankings
6/25/18
2024 Rankings
1. Eclipse
2. PrimeTime
3. 2-Way
4. Express North
5. Preds
6. loneWolf
7. Rhino
8. All others Can bump up the 2024 Preds to #3. All this chatter about Preds doing well isn't just talk. That program has been charging hard, winning, getting coverage, and getting the better players. Not saying better than PT but their model has them pushing past Eclipse, 2Way, Express North cleanly. By the time their 2023 WSYL team is in middle of HS, they will be the top.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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How will primetime do in World Series? How many boys that played this past weekend are ineligible teams play in Denver Anyone know actual number
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Primetime has 7 players not eligible for world series.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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On next weeks rankings We'll see where everyone lands although not much going on this weekend for most clubs as most top team laying low or just practicing. I know lots of backup teams have tourneys this weekend.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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What difference does it make how many are ineligible? Are you scouting them?
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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I hear Colsey is taking his kids to express North, maybe he has burned his bridge with Daniello at PrimeTime, not sure if its true, but chatter is parents on the 24 team are not happy with him and his daddy ball nonsense and kids are looking around . makes sense, happened at superstars
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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think Jersey Shore meets Housewives of NJ meets the family dinner scene in the "The Heat"
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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if you want to avoid daddy ball and you should, then stay away from PT 24 and express North 24, both are coached by dads and both have unhappy players because of it. In my experience, daddy ball never works except maybe for the coach and his son.
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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Anybody see that mom cat fight at that 6th grade game at Westchester War Games? What happened? Now this board is getting good. I know, "what a lowbrow topic!" But perfect for the internet, Need info. think Jersey Shore meets Housewives of NJ meets the family dinner scene in the "The Heat"
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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would love to hear from any pt 2024 parents how their experience has been with roy colsey this year as I am considering having my son tryout
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Re: Westchester Lacrosse
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any video of that around?...how great would that be?...for the rest of those gum-snappers lives, everyone w/b able to [ChillLaxin] themselves watching them throw down at their 8 year olds lax game....priceless..
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