BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

API and Hawks; Hatfields and McCoys. Need a "Go Fund Me" page to support "marriage counseling" for this VERY UNNECESSARY feud being fought out anonymously (aka cowardly) and publicly (sucks the life out of others cruelly while trying to otherwise enjoy to any extent the world of youth sports.

The actor playing Joseph Goebbels in The Inglorious Bastards made a similar statement when referring to U.S. success at the Olympics. Looks like you're keeping good company these days.

NCAA Div 1 athletics playing Basketball that are Black is close to 60% . That would mean states with a high population of Blacks would generally have a high percentage of BB players playing D1. And especially MD which has a strong history of excellent HS BB teams. How you compare this to what Goebbels said shows what a complete non critical thinker you are .

Or Einstein, does that mean a state like Idaho ( less than 1% Black) would have the same percentage of Div 1 BB players as Maryland?? Oops I mentioned Einstein!

Hawks are more open this year in recruiting for next year already. They have quite a few guest players each week on their indoor teams. I hear they are looking to steal 1 or 2 for the spring/summer? Never ends

Steal?

Every body hates when a club has guest players and when they "steal" players from other clubs to come play on their club. Until there son is stuck in a bad spot for tons of reasons and they want to change clubs. Also this 8th grade year is a big time in dealing with a club team. Getting stuck on the wrong team for your son in 8th grade can really put your son behind the 8 ball. Clubs are really hard to break into when the kids hit the high school age. The coaches have kids they have already coached for 2 or 3 years and have they have already starting working on the recruiting side with them. So you have to be twice as good as the others when you are looking to change clubs 9th grade and above.

Looking from a far I don't see how the Hawks can steal anyone. Or any team for that matter. Try outs were had and players choose to go to a team. Its also pretty clear that every club does a bit of recruiting but none more than others and it certainly isn't over the top.There is however a bitter parent who might not like his decision and skips from team to team. Most solid teams especially the Hawks stay away from cancers. We have dealt with the Hawks and have to say it was very open and honest about everything and fair.
If you are clinging to indoor games to a team you are not even associated with speaks volumes about your character and your points on this forum are mute and comical. What will you do next year in High School and you can't blame others for your kid not winning or making the team.The indoor league is High School - schools split there teams in half so everyone can get a run in. Are you telling us you watch the 2 Hawk teams play each week? You know the team so well you can tell if they have guest players? Sounds a bit crazy.

Agreed. API dads have been trash talking Hawks for years now and we shouldn't expect it to change now. These post clearly are sad and have no merit.

It never ends for dads like you to try to get people to think Hawks is a terrible team or cheats somehow. Get a life and stop worrying so much about teams you don't even belong to. My kid would love to play for the Hawks and has never even thought about API.

2022 is 8th grade this year. In last few years with early recruiting we saw a lot of reclassing of 8th graders all over country and especially in holdback central Maryland. . Now with ER somewhat gone until 11th grade, How are MD teams looking. Many reclass in the elite ranks?? Or did the huge amount of prefirsts make it unnecessary?

This entire quote is unnecessary and there is an entire forum dedicated to this topic-

Nope. Reclassing still going strong.

Crabs over PLC for PSL box Championship.

Obviously your son has been heldback or done a prefirst. 8th grade is the big reclass for anyone that missed out on prefirst in MD and is nipping at elite level on age.

For what it's worth, my son plays for an out-of-state team that has played both Hawks and API. On the field, I had absolutely no issues with the games or the players from either team, hard fought and well played games. However, the sideline experience was a completely different story. While every team is going to have a few of "those' parents, API ranks up there with some of the worst sideline parents around. While I am sure that there are some really great parents associated with the program, they are definitely overshadowed by the rest.

Hawks is the only team that picked up kids repeating 8th grade. Crabs did not. FCA did not. Of course Hawks parents will deny this as they still try to say they only have 2 holdbacks on the team.

What's the difference between an 8th grade holdback and a pre-first?

A "holdback" is usually defined generically as a kid that has been held back a year along the way. Could be for any number of reasons - academic, social, athletic.

A "pre-first" is a kid that took an extra year between kindergarten and first grade. While there are those in the community that complain that this gives athletic advantage later on, I don't think that reasonable people think parents are thinking far enough ahead to use this extra year for that purpose. Like many, they feel their kid needs an extra year to grow socially, mentally, or emotionally. Just like kids that are started in kindergarten a year late.

In many cases, particularly for clubs that feed MIAA schools, kids repeat 8th grade before they go to high school, particularly if they did not take a pre-first year. Though some do both. The connotation in the community is this is strictly done for athletic reasons... parents don't deny there are athletic reasons but they usually say that's not the only consideration.

If a kid starts kindergarten when most kids do (the school year during which they turn six), takes a pre-first year, and repeats 8th grade, you could have 2022s that turn 16 this year. And if a kid started kindergarten late, took a pre-first year, and repeats 8th grade, he could be driving himself to spring league games in a couple months.

What makes this a big deal is the spread of puberty. While most kids who attend school following a normal progression (on-time and never held back) are just entering puberty in 8th grade, these kids that have taken 1, 2, or possibly 3 extra years are well into puberty, and the size and athletic differences are obvious.

I'm not a denier... I believe there is an advantage to this structure for those parents who use it, even if some of those parents deny it. But I also believe that a couple years into high school it kind of evens out. Especially if (for most of the kids who are doing this) "everyone's doing it." It can make you look like a heck of a youth player, which might get you and your club some attention early, but if half or more of your high school team also did it, that advantage disappears quickly.

But I'm also not a complainer. It is what it is. My kid got better playing against those bigger and older kids, and as a 9th grader he's behind his peers in terms of puberty.

Well stated. Couple of things. Being familiar with MIAA schools and having multiple children in them. I can tell you that many do think of sports while holding their child back in kindergarten. In other words doing a prefirst. Of course it helps out academically for many boys too . The majority of MIAA coaches of any sport have their sons or son do a prefirst. They know the drill to compete in MIAA.

The biggest issue I have as do many others is just what you state. Having children playing down in YOUTH lacrosse due to being held back. It is noticeable at early ages, but especially around puberty ages. And why do a select group of players get this advantage while others dont. Just isnt right at Youth level .

High School is a different animal and it is what it is,

API,Hawks,Crabs,FCA,91MD,DCE,RR all have holdbacks - this is a mute subject as every team on the Elite level has them.All clubs, teams ,parents and most important the players all agree to play. Right or wrong it is the state of the game at this age group.

Im sure the Hawks do have holdbacks, but lets not pretend no other clubs do. We have all seen the teams this fall and winter. Especially the Crabs and FCA.

Maryland residents focus on sports much more than the rest of the country, so percentage wise, more Maryland kids play D1 than other states. For example, most states list that fewer than 1% of kids go on to play D1 basketball, but in MD, the percentage is over 5%.

[/quote]

MD has a long history of strong BB players and Teams from Balt City and DC suburbs. That along with 30% Black population in State helps that D1 stat in MD.
[/quote]
The actor playing Joseph Goebbels in The Inglorious Bastards made a similar statement when referring to U.S. success at the Olympics. Looks like you're keeping good company these days.[/quote]


NCAA Div 1 athletics playing Basketball that are Black is close to 60% . That would mean states with a high population of Blacks would generally have a high percentage of BB players playing D1. And especially MD which has a strong history of excellent HS BB teams. How you compare this to what Goebbels said shows what a complete non critical thinker you are .

Or Einstein, does that mean a state like Idaho ( less than 1% Black) would have the same percentage of Div 1 BB players as Maryland?? Oops I mentioned Einstein! [/quote]
stunad - you should do some research before espousing your racist views. Just because there is a large population of black people in a state doesn't mean they produce more D1 basketball players. According to NCAA, states with the highest numbers of D1 players on top 25 basketball teams are CA, TX, IN, IL, and NC. Of these, only NC is among the top 10 states in percentage of their population that is black. In addition, better than 50% of DC's population is black. By your stunad-logic, 10% of D1 players should be from DC. I really wish some folks would evolve a little faster.

Of course they do. The question was specifically around teams that picked up kids repeating 8th grade. Neither Crabs or FCA did. Hawks is the only team that has new kids on the team that are repeating 8th grade. The Crabs and FCA kids that are older all went to prefirst or started school late.

No difference they are both CHEATING the system and themselves

One gets held back while the mustache is growing in. The other gets held back while learning their ABC's. Any more questions bright one?

So if you cheat early = OK
So if you cheat late = bad

Leaders in the holdback clubhouse
1. Hawks
2. Crabs
3. FCA
4. Next Level
5. DC Express
6. Madlax
7. Rough Riders
8. Team 91
9. API

This entire quote is unnecessary and there is an entire forum dedicated to this topic-[/quote]

Obviously your son has been heldback or done a prefirst. 8th grade is the big reclass for anyone that missed out on prefirst in MD and is nipping at elite level on age. [/quote]

Hawks is the only team that picked up kids repeating 8th grade. Crabs did not. FCA did not. Of course Hawks parents will deny this as they still try to say they only have 2 holdbacks on the team.[/quote]

Im sure the Hawks do have holdbacks, but lets not pretend no other clubs do. We have all seen the teams this fall and winter. Especially the Crabs and FCA. [/quote]

Of course they do. The question was specifically around teams that picked up kids repeating 8th grade. Neither Crabs or FCA did. Hawks is the only team that has new kids on the team that are repeating 8th grade. The Crabs and FCA kids that are older all went to prefirst or started school late.[/quote]

So if you cheat early = OK
So if you cheat late = bad
[/quote]

It would seem that way, and I am not defending the practice, but at least when a kid is young, there are many other variables outside of pure athletic advantage...size, maturity, cognitive skills, etc...

YAWN........not a team out there that doesn't do this......next topic

Besides seeing race around every corner, I see your reading comprehension and Math skills are lacking too. Where did you go to school, Whatsamatta U ??

Md has 1.7 million AA. Only 7 states have more AA. DC has less than 300K . Not sure what logic you are using , but by my logic that would be less than 1% from DC. Now who were you calling a name? LOL. And a big factor to go along with that as stated before, MD has a strong history of talented BB teams .

Here is another bit of logic for you , The states CA,TX,IL,NC all have the top 5 populations of AA in this country. So stunad they would have the most players in DI?? What is so hard to understand?? IL is the only outlier? And why is that? Due to a strong history of talented BB teams and a state that is BB crazy.

Sorry it offends you to state the obvious and say the word AA or Black without being apologetic.

So 4 states comprise the top 5. Hmm solid math there stunad. Additionally, your original [ChillLaxin] was based on a percentage of the population. Shifting to absolute numbers as you did in your last post, alters the underpinnings of your faulty [ChillLaxin]. Typical uneducated stale white guy.

original assertion; and faulty assertion

You get called out for being completely wrong and having the logic of a 5 year old. Now its because originally % was mentioned. Sorry you were not up to the task to actual use numbers against numbers. This is a MD forum and I forgot that you didnt know it was for people that actually know the state and approximate population!

Then the genius you are. YOU use the same logic that you just called me a racist for using. You are Hilarious. Did you forget you just called this line of thought racist? Oh I see..using percentage is racist, using absolute numbers isnt. LOL You are the poster child for someone who suffers from the Dunning–Kruger effect.

Not with the Hawks but that is completely false - Hawks have a very small turn around of kids from year to year- 1 or 3 kids new to team. Anyone that plays against them every year knows that. They added 1 player being held back for another sport. FCA,MADLAX, Crabs,DCE and API have added more holdbacks-new to the team. Doesn't matter when they were heldback they still where and are new to team this year. Again, every team has them and trying to decide who has more in a system that everyone playing has agreed to play in is ridiculous. Anyone who has been around these teams for years can clearly see that this fall and winter. Complaining about 1 team in general when an entire league is playing by the same rules. From the games this fall and winter a lot of teams have got better and it will be a very completive Spring and Summer

DCE
Koopers/Dukes
RR
Hawks
Crabs
FCA
91md
MadLax
APi

preseason standings
guesstimation

API is loaded with holdbacks just like every other team ! Difference is they will still be at the bottom looking up-

Not likely. What is this based on? Certainly not fall results. Madlax Beat 91. 91 has blown our Crabs every time they have played. FCA blew out Crabs. No way RR is better than Hawks.

Fall results don't matter. DCE lost to Hawks and then blew them out several weeks later. Koopers/Dukes depends on who shows up that week. RR are enigmatic: some of the League's best players but not enough depth. Hawks are solid but inconsistent. Crabs look to make the biggest jump in the standings due to their seasoned coaching staff. FCA will always shine but the two team concept may prove to dilutive in the short run. 91 looks a lot weaker than before as does MadLax and API

"Crabs look to make the biggest jump in the standings due to their seasoned coaching staff." #Fakenews