BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2022 - 8th Grade Fall 2017/Summer 2018

They sure did... it is clearly stated in bullet 3 of their tournament rules. Hopefully Blatant will learn from this and enforce in the future.

General Youth Tournament Rules

Mouth Guards, Arm Pads and Shoulder Pads Required
Penalty time will be kept by refs (Man-Up/Man-Down)
Any fighting/flagrant disrespect towards an official will result in expulsion from the tournament
Games consist of 2- 20 minute running time game – 1 minute half time to switch sides, 4 minutes between games.
Time will be kept on field.
No timeouts in last 5 minutes. 1 Timeout per game.
No Dogs allowed
No Barbeques allowed
Concessions/Vendor Village will be present
EMT/First Aid will be present
3 Points for Win, 1 Point for Tie
Tie Game= 2 minute Braveheart 3 v 3
Tiebreakers- Points, Head to Head, Goal Differential, Goals Against
All Grades- Man Up/Man Down (Can play fast breaks if both teams agree (2/3 Grade)
No Clearing time, but 4 second goalie rule applies
NO TAKE OUT CHECKS
Horns available upon coaches requests for substitutions
MERCY RULE: If team is trailing by 6 goals they have OPTION to take the ball
Long poles are allowed at ALL ages
Unless otherwise stated Blatant tournaments will follow NFHS rules
DISPUTES: All disputes to be resolved by the rules committee and decisions are FINAL

Refereeing in hockey is much more controlled, both in terms of the refs themselves as well as the rule book they use for in game control and resulting protocol for situations like what happened in this game. This is just another example of where USAL is very weak governing organization versus USAH - there are a myriad of problems the sport of lacrosse has with a vacuum at the "top". The sport will continue to have problems, amplified by the growth in participation. USAL either needs to step up, or an alternative organization/body should start up. Lacrosse needs to look to what other youth sports have already experienced and matured forward from - there is nothign unique about lacrosse that makes it different or immune from the issues other sports have already successfully dealt with.

Whoever said "There were only a couple kids that lost their tempers and should have been ejected, the other boys were trying to help get things under control." Are you saying 13 old boys left the bench to help get things under control. Players should not be allowed to leave the bench. The end. Kids get into it on the field fine, it's a physical game. Leaving the bench crosses a line. The NBA got that right.

"And just to set the record straight Express--you are lucky parents intervened and stopped the fight from escalating...I 'll leave it at that. It would've been a bloodbath--stick to yelling at the defenseless refs..."

"no way that's an Igloo parent"

Wishful thinking, but you are right, it could've come from an Express parent just as easily...

After the Igloo FO player loses a FO or two, he will start using a key-holed CEO or Dictator head that do not meet the width requirements. The little Igloo FOGO AND the little Express FOGO BOTH intentionally use pinched heads that do not meet regulation if they start losing FOs. I have watched them both rotate these sticks into multiple games after a loss or two and you can see how pinched they are from the sidelines. A short shaft is an advantage for a short player because they are less likely to bang the butt-end on the ground when they are changing hands or getting trail checked by taller players. On GBs it is easier to shield from checks. Illegal is illegal. 40"

no Igloo player OR express player left the bench
Marshawn Lynch did!

Not sure if you know but unless you are specifically playing high school rules there are not rules around stick length or for that matter what you can do with the lacrosse head. Not saying what happened is right but this is youth lacrosse. Unless the tournament specify NHS rules or even for more clarity state their own than it is open game. I have seen way to many kids, NON FOGO, play with short sticks, Larger than needed pockets, and heads strung that would ne penalties in HS. WHY [lacrosse] about something that kids on every team at the youth level do.. If it is such a concern, your teams should play in only tournaments that follow true HS level rules.

my son's stick got taken away at a Middle School game for being under 40 inches.

Post the video.

Most Tournaments either use NFHS or NCAA rules and specify modifications to those rules as needed. So yes, stick rules apply to all tournaments.

Channy has no control over that team. He let's his select 2 run the show. Afraid to get on their parents bad side. The $$ might stop. Express parents rip the penguin but they have the same deal with one of their fathers. He was one of instigators yesterday.

Express is just fine with its past, present and future success.

Page 97 of the 2017 US Lacrosse Youth Boys Rulebook where it states that the minimum overall stick length is 40 inches and the maximum overall stick length is 42 inches, for 14U.

can you please define a long time?

Since when does US Lacrosse apply? Lol, really? We would playing age based if it did. These are independent tourneys non sanctioned by any higher body of rules.

Newsflash: Blatant follows NFHS rules. NFHS rule states that the crosse shall be a minimun overall fixed length of 40. Also, USL and NFHS have a partnership and are in a process of aligning to standardize rules.

Please don’t provide any more misinformation. Blatant follows nfhs rules. Page 27 of nfhs rulebook states the minimum overall stick length is 40 inches.

Who cares - as stated above, from the tourney rules:

"Unless otherwise stated Blatant tournaments will follow NFHS rules"

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The Panda kid for LI Express is an awesome FOGO. Sounds like the Igloo kid cheated to compete.

Dude, get a hobby. Borderline obsessed. They are 13 years old. Watch your kid and enjoy the game instead of being fixated on what stick some other kid uses.

Please provide the information.

Not talking about NFHS?? I am talking about the US Lacrosse comment, try to keep up. You know US lacrosse, that enity that a lot seem not to recognize. I guess its because they favor are age based structure.

One thing is for sure. There is a big gap in this age between the top 2 and the rest. 91 will likely fall closer to the top 2 once they play. But everyone else is going to tighten up below this AA tier. That's not to say all the other teams aren't good, it's just those top 2 or 3 are really freaking good.

Debating the USAL comment is moot when the NFHS rules are in use . . . why bother?!

actually you are wrong on multiple points because nfhs is the body of rules that blatant follows. now read slowing and pay close attention - us lacrosse and nfhs have a partnership and or affiliation:

US Lacrosse is proud of its partnership and affiliation with its national and international organizations that help to enhance the lacrosse experience through their contributions to the sport.

The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) authors rules for high school boys’ lacrosse. For 2017, US Lacrosse has produced a stand-alone youth rule book for ages 14U and below.

My biggest complaint about youth lacrosse after watching this over many years, with my three boys in varying classes: that there are almost always a (small) bunch of very good teams at the top but then the next GROUP down is treated like pariahs - the "everyone else is B" crowd, if you will. Your assessment is a better, objective take on this: there are the AA, and then there are A teams, and then B etc.

I for one was a bit disappointed that the gap didn't close a bit and if anything it looked worse than last year. Usually it begins to do so by now.

Whoa......2 posts that make sense!

Thanks for the explanation. Dont know the Igloo FOGO just know the Express one kicks [lacrosse].

Annapolis Hawks would compete and beat both more often then they lose IMO.

91 2022 is step down from Igloo and Express IMO.

Again that's just my opinion.

Agreed 7th & 8th is when the kids start to mature and catch up and the gaps close.

The dynamic is changing and these teams are getting the best players. Plus, they are shorting the bench in the big games. That's why you may see a tight game or two, it's really not a gap closing, it's playing time balance on the roster. I.E., I sure that teams #4-6 starters on the Island can easily beat teams #1-3 bottom half of the roster. My older son in the 2018s had a completely different experience at this age. Recruiting was starting and a lot of the teams began to creep backwards as interest wasn't as high because the best players were recruited and HS was the focus. Now you have to stay with your club through Jr. year. The clubs are loving the new recruiting rules. And, I am of the opinion that not all clubs are created equal. An established club because (I believe) will get you into the better events (team and Individual). In the end, there will be 100s of this class recruited, but you don't have to be on an elite team, that makes exposure easier. But imho i think it's better to be with an established club.

Far worse than this is the disparate ages of the kids competing, in a system where age is irrelevant. I have had multiple kids play and never once have I ever been asked for their age or DOB, and for that matter, proof of their grade. What the movers and shakers of travel lacrosse don't get is that this lack of age enforcement (or indeed, the lack of age even being relevant) drives people away. Travel hockey, which is fanatical in its age enforcement, has a much deeper pool of competitive levels, and therefore, paying customers, because once you ensure the kids are similar in age, you can do much more in terms of subdividing based on skill and athleticism.

Yes, the age thing is my second biggest complaint, and it is largely a driver as to why tourneys and teams are unable to properly 'position' themselves. Hockey has done all of the heavy lifting here, so USL wouldn't have to do much more than 'steal' their model, other than with a few tweaks here and there (you can do away with the player-team exclusivity, for one).

US Lacrosse and NXT events have this in motion. Already looks like Igloo has participated in qualifier tournaments and will be making a run at this summer’s age-based national tournament.

It's in August in Delaware and its U12, U13, U14.

https://www.uslacrossenationals.com/qualification-events-and-scoring

August events are almost like post season - teams are already holding tryouts by then. Until we see meaningful age-based tournaments between May and July, it won't be taking hold. That said, I guess you have to start somewhere...

2022 will be able to play in a U14 tourney ??

There is not one NY-based event for boys (and only for girls and that is in Lake George!), which speaks volumes to the fact that age-based play is not taking hold on LI yet. I don't see how Igloo or any other LI teams can take their regular roster if they have even one holdback/reclassed/whatever boy unless that boy or boys won't compete in those qualifying tourneys or the national tourney if they qualify. This is just like the WYSL - how do you field a grade-based team AND play in age-based tourneys without player issues?

The only ones that can stop it are the tournament organizers. USA lacrosse has not mandated a universal id card for players and as a result players play wherever their parents register them. If like soccer the kids that were playing lined up with their id cards in the center of the field and the referees checked them then it would eliminate the issue. This will not happen because its about getting as many teams to register for your tournament. Why as many teams because its a business. If a tournament put in the restriction of validated age per year born not graduation year many teams would be unable to play. Issue is if one tournament is asking for age verification there are 5 others on the same day that are not and as a result teams and whole programs will go to the tournaments not requiring the proof of age. Whats interesting is that USA lacrosse has something in place but are not willing to implement it. Most kids have USA lacrosse id numbers. So if a player is registered with US lacrosse they already have an id# and a means to create a system to monitor birth year play. Its that simple. If parents held US lacrosse accountable maybe they would not turn a blind eye to it. Most tournaments and events are US lacrosse backed with insurance so it would be simple to do.

Exactly - USL can force the issue by revoking insurance for all non-age-based play. The counter that will be the defections from USL and that tournaments can secure insurance on their own. I think that would be short-sighted by teams and tourneys to perpetuate a grade-based system for no other reason than that it is the status quo (there is zero rationale for grade-based play beyond that).

Agree