BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums MID-ATLANTIC LACROSSE MARYLAND FORUM Greater Howard Club Lacrosse Conference (HoCo)

Howard County "Public" Recreation Department runs the HOCO league. Howard County Rec youth leagues are all age based. Even HOCO club teams used to be age base until Howard County started their grade based league. That is why it is ridiculous that this county government agency started a Grade based league to help out the private schools. Obviously the Recreation Department people had some ulterior motives for grade base.

Here are the Clubs starting tryouts this week:

Anne Arundel:
Sidewinders - 8/20 - Southern HS, Harwood MD - Tier 2.83

Baltimore
Ground Control - 8/20 - Essex CCBC - Tier 4
Coppermine - 8/19 - Norris Field - 2026 - 2028 - Tier 2
Greene Turtle - 8/20 - Loyola University - Tier 2.33
Rock - 8/20 - St. Paul's - Tier 2.33
Wolfpack - 8/20 - Concordia - Tier 2.75

Carroll
Gonzo - 8/20 - Hampstead Elementary - Tier 2.66

Montgomery
Bethesda / DC Express - 8/19 - Bullis - Tier 1
Next Level - 8/19 - Landon / Wash Episcopal - Tier 1.33

Northern VA
Madlax - 8/24 - Landon - Tier 1 (and Montgomery County)
Club Blue - 8/20 - Bishop O'Connell - Tier 1.33 (and Montgomery County)
VLC - 8/19 - George Mason University - Tier 2

Cannons tryouts start tomorrow

The late tryout teams listed above for Baltimore are typically the weakest. Hoping to pick up the kids who didn't make the better teams. It hasn't worked out for them in the past few years.

Just a few clubs still holding tryouts:

Anne Arundel
Diamondbacks - 8/27 - Archbishop Spalding, Severn MD - Tier 1.3
Sidewinders - 8/27 - Southern HS, Harwood MD - Tier 2.8

Baltimore
Ground Control - 8/27 - Essex CCBC - Tier 4
Rock - 8/27 - St. Paul's - Tier 2.3
Wolfpack - 8/27 - Concordia - Tier 2.7

Calvert
Cannons - 8/24 & 27 - Dunkirk District Park - Tier 2

Carroll
Gonzo - 8/27 - Hampstead, MD - Elementary - Tier 2.66

Frederick
Lax Factory - 8/27 - Oakdale high - Tier 2

Montgomery
Next Level - 8/26 - Landon / Wash Episcopal - Tier 1.3

Northern VA
Madlax - 8/24 & 27 - Landon - Tier 1
VLC - 8/19 - George Mason University - Tier 2
Top Caliber - 8/27 – George Mason

Prince Georges
PG Lacrosse Club - 8/26 & 27 - DeMatha/Walker Hill - Tier 3

Queen Anne’s
USS Cutters - 8/27 - Edge Arena - Tier 2

Talbot
Dark Horse - 9/10 & 17 - Easton Park, Easton MD

holdbacks, not on age is cheating and sad in youth sports. accept it and move on.

Is it sad? Yes. Is it "gaming the system?" Probably.

Is it cheating? No. The rules for HoCo clearly state it is a grade-based league. Get over it.

Agree, while it is completely gaming the system, unfair to many players and goes against just about everything youth sports stands for...it isnt against the rules as the Howard County Recreation Department wrote them up. Howard Country Recreation should have a special place in Maryland lacrosse Hall of Shame.

If the league should be in the hall of shame, where does that leave your son's club? I agree with your sentiment about holdbacks gaming the system, but are you saying that there is a club out there that prohibits holdbacks? If there are no U-age teams among the local clubs, implementing an age-based system in the HoCo league would be like the tail wagging the dog. I saw a very good player on my son's team, top 5 arguably at his position in MD, get cut because a handful of kids reclassed this year. He went from splitting time with another great player to left out in the cold because of reclassing. It's shameful, but the clubs allow it and I doubt a league has the clout to dictate how club teams should organize when there are so many other events that they participate in.

Too many people signing up for club at early age as a replacement for Rec. By the time your kid is ready to play club, he should be ready to play with other kids from the community in his grade, whether they are private or public, and whether they are a year older or younger. Club is preparing kids that want to play in HS as their primary sport and is not for everyone. Club is not set up to serve the recreational needs of the community. I haven't heard many complaints about extra year kids having an advantage at more time to take the SAT's, so let's be honest with what this is all about. You don't see too many former college athlete parents complaining about the state of affairs, which should tell you all you really need to know.

Club at the High School level is grade and should be...always has been ..No one complained. Youth sports no matter Club or Rec should be by age. always has been by age until MIAA influenced Howard County rec decided to start a grade base league a few years ago. Age based system worked for the Harrison, Rabil, etc prior to grade based change.

You want to tie Club HS in with Club Youth..Doesnt work . Youth is Youth and HS is HS. The total out of control recruiting of young players was quashed within a year of the out of control grade based teams starting. Recruiting signing and actual talk is 11th grade now. 10th and maybe 9th are important. Which is HS. Youth has nothing to do with " happy college athletic parents" . You are an apologist for a youth system that rewards holding your child back at an early age.

You must not know the history of how the HOCO league was started. Some idiot at age based MYLA decided to hook up with Howard County Recreation Department and start a Club league. It was to compete against age based NYPLL Club league.( NOW GONE) . Howard County Recreation due to influence of MIAA decided to go against everything they have done prior in their leagues, and go Grade base, not age. After that Clubs exploded and the race was on for prefirsts. Crabs had the advantage early. Seems like others have caught up now.

Only apologists for having select older kids play down think this is right. The majority know better. Not much anyone can do now. The majority will just watch as more and more hold their child back. Pretty sad for youth sports

Well, it's more of a curriculum now, so not really some nefarious sports thing. Almost every major private school has prefirst. It's called evolution; public schools should try it.

Nope, I just didn't complain about the rules and found the best strategy for my kid. I made my kid play up a grad year until HS, and I shut the f up about everyone else.
You would prefer to join something private, then complain about the rules, instead of just not joining. Get along or move along, as many great Dad's have said.

The industry grew by 100% over the last year.

That's funny. I agree that youth sports should be age-based. But do you really think MIAA coaches or administrators care how a youth league organized? Are they lobbying other sports to go grade-based? The hold-backs have been going on for years. Under the old U15 guidelines they just got a second year in u15 while non-holdbacks were off to HS. There's no benefit or difference as to when these kids are eligible for HS lacrosse now that they are grade based.

The reason Hoco went to grade is because all the clubs were going in that direction. The clubs were following the lead of clubs and tournaments up north which had been grade for some time. The irony is that grade based segmentation benefits MD-VA teams since our kids older even before hold backs because we have 9/1 school cutoff vs 12/1 in NY.

It's unfortunate the US Lacrosse can't dictate the age rules like other sports apparently do. I know they are trying with their own tournaments and there are a couple of event companies like NXT on board starting with the youngest groups. But USL can't force all tournaments to change or force clubs to play in age events. They way this changes is for NY clubs to all go by 9/1 cut-off and refuse to play in grade events. They have a competitive reason to do so and there are enough of them that they are a big enough market force to make the individual tournaments change. They love to travel. When the LI teams stop coming the tournaments dry up

You should do an anonymous petition.

Why not have a birth year based system in place. Makes it easy - verify with birth certificates, certified rosters with player cards that are checked before each game. Seems fair

This will all work itself out in a few years. Early college recruiting was a big driver of the holdback insanity. Holdback kids lose their advantage once all the non-holdback kids are through puberty and in High School. There is way too much emphasis being placed on the HOCO Club league by parents in my opinion.

The First and Second Year , I actually wrote many times to different people in Howard County Recreation Department telling them what would happen with their new grade based league. Wrote it would encourage holdbacks and why was grade base a priority to HOCO. Told them a simple U10,U11, U12, etc would be better for YOUTh sports and align with all their other HOCO leagues.
Got back from several useless people many excuses. Later found out that two had boys in a MIAA schools. Wonder if that had anything to do with it.

No matter how you spin it. Youth sports prior to HS should be by age.

No one cares about what MIAA private schools and parents do with their children. Hold them back two grades if that is the right thing to do. Parents should always do what is best for their child's education.

But private school prefirsts/holdbacks should have Zero influence of Youth sports outside of their school. And for sure should not be getting an advantage others dont get with exact same birthdays. The reality is that the majority of children 7th grade and below playing down in age are prefirsts at this time.

8th grade is different as it is the time for public and private parents to decide to reclass their children.

So glad hoco has a rec division to accomodate everyone that has major hang ups with the club division's grade based rules. That way, everyone is happy!

I agree. Maybe we can start a petition for age based high school sports next. God forbid someone run into academic issues or move mid year from one school to another due to a job re-location. Then we can require college coaches to attend only age specific events because they care so much about what parents think.

Maybe we can start a petition that you actually understand the holdback issue before you post. The 2 examples you gave are both legitimate reasons for a kid being held back a grade. The issue with holdbacks is that kids are being held back specifically to gain an athletic advantage. No one cares about age in high school lacrosse, and if they do they are morons because all the kids can make up for the age difference with weight and speed/agility training since they have matured through puberty.

Do you really think that these issues have any relevancy to the Youth holdback issue in lacrosse. How do these relate to select kids under 14 getting an advantage others dont with same exact birthday ? These are new excuses I havent heard before.

Rumors of HOCO going to 10 games for 2018 and AA County offering the same program, but on Saturdays. Thoughts?

Don't middle schools, at least those with relevant programs, compete by grade too? Not disagreeing age would be a good basis for creating something as close to "fair" as possible, but kind of like middle school is prep for HS, isn't club lacrosse (paid) supposed to model HS and be preparatory, for those that want to eventually play in HS? Club isn't a replacement for rec, correct, where you would expect a more balanced "fair" environment. For $2,000/year or more, plus travel, etc., don't people realize what they are buying, before they buy? People aren't buying into club, then complaining afterwards, correct? I always understood club to be a higher level of realistic competition, more that would would one day expect in HS and college, even at the youth levels. It's advertised as grade-based before people pay the money, correct, or no? With the diverse range of public and private schools in the area, doing paid high level leagues as grade based would be more realistic measure of competition in the area, seemingly. Are we trying to create realistic expectations, or are we trying to create a false impression about what is to come in HS? Maybe age based in elementary school, then grade based in middle school? It's a lot of money to treat as a fun replacement for rec, because, you know, you could just do rec.

10 games would mean mid-week treks Hoco. Not easy if you have to use either beltway

Terrible idea. Going to Howard County is bad enough. AA county just as bad. For what? a few more meaningless games against crappy teams. Mid week games or two games in a day is nuts- thats for summer. Keep it simple people. Train more play less. Practice is fun, meaningless games are not. Put the focus on kids back into lacrosse.

Great idea every team plays everybody. No hiding behind a weak schedule

Amazingly hoco is claiming lack of field space as the reason for not offering a complete schedule where all teams play each other.

If hoco could coordinate with AA or Balt Co to get more field space, it would be great to have the teams play each other.

Agreed!!!

Play everyone and the best teams go to the playoffs. No Excuses about weak schedules

Hiding behind a weak schedule? You're way too into it.

Only reason this league exists is because of the Howard Co turf fields and their willingness to allow them to be used for the league. Not sure how AA works but Baltimore County Rec is a decentralized mess. Each community has a volunteer rec council that has 1st rights to the fields. For instance LTRC has Seminary Park turf, Hereford rec has Hereford HS turf, Kelly Post has Towson HS etc. There is not a chance in [lacrosse] that those programs would give up turf time to the clubs they are losing kids to.

The other benefit to this league is that Hoco does all the admin - schedule games/fields, refs, update scores. When you show up for the games you know the field won't be double booked or no refs. Leave that to individual club directors to go out and find/rent fields...

The real question is when is Howard County going to step up to the plate and follow USL guidelines and make their leagues age based? Holdbacks are ruining the sport. Lacrosse will always just be a rich white man's game until the playing field is level.

Have you seen the USL rules?

They have different rules for every single age which are different than NCAA and high school rules.

No one wants to deal with that.

USL doesn't have or make rules, rather, they offer opinions that are popular with people that donate money. Leagues have and make rules. USL sells stickers and builds fancy stadiums near the CEO's house.

If we're all honest with ourselves, the real purpose of the league is to get clubs ready for summer tournament season. Those programs that want to play more games in the spring already go play in the Kooper's league. So I see no real point in more games in HoCo.

Let me guess you two have reclassed sons or own club lacrosse teams. USL is the governing body of lacrosse. End of story.

No they are not. Are you even trying anymore? Literally govern nothing! Just for our own comic relief, give us an example of what they govern..
Not promote, but govern.