BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

Well, I know of several 2020s that have spoken to their coaches this week. Guess this whole thing will be impossible to enforce!

The only thing that will change is the clubs and players won't announce the verbal anymore. Carry on.

2020 parent here.

Yes, there will be a few less coaches and players at 2020 events this summer but I doubt this will amount to the devastating economic blow to showcase organizers that everyone here hopes it will be.

Kids don't suddenly have oodles of free time just because they are skipping a showcase or two. If a kid is not already doing the other things that you mention I doubt that will start now because one weekend has freed up.

Why are people upset? Well for every 2020 kid who has committed there is another who is talking to coaches, doing vists and probably close to making a decision soon. With 80ish 2020s already committed, telling the rest of them that the door is now closed seems like a knee-jerk response and shows that this is not about the kids at all. The NCAA is punishing the kids who have not committed because of the ones who have.

Too bad NCAA never posted anything about this. Only 3rd parties are saying what their interpretation is. How about something definitive directly from NCAA? Too much to ask?

Agreed, this should have started with the 2021 grad year. Lacrosse loves to make arbitrary rules, change rules, not make the rules they really should. A joke! If there was one good thing that should have been done for the sport, it should have been age enforcement. Who cares when a kid commits!

Yep. US Lacrosse is so concerned about this while the age problem goes unchecked. Stenerson thinks this will somehow reenergize rec Lacrosse, I don't see that at all. As long as you have 14 year olds playing against 12 year olds youth Lacrosse is fundamentally broken at all levels.

Fixing the age problem will stop the holdback nonsense and level the playing field, potentially making early recruiting less useful.

Age enforcement would have been great! My 9th grade daughter is almost 2 years younger than some girls on our club team.
The IWLCA keeps posting , when will the NCAA put something out?!

NCAA? Never, not a problem for them. US Lacrosse claims to be the national governing body of Lacrosse. They say that they "primarily serve at the youth level" yet they look the other way on this one and keep collecting membership fees and donations.

While I fully agree that moving to an age-based governance is needed, the two issues are separate in that 'governance' is accomplished by different entities. The NCAA has no authority outside of membership institutions, which are all post-secondary. US lacrosse is where the age-based governance needs to happen. While the NCAA could have attempted to coordinate their rule change with a parallel age-based effort by USL, my guess is that they did not want to hitch their efforts to that wagon knowing full well that a failure on USL to implement that would have brought down their rule with it. the best that can be hoped for now, is that the NCAA rule pushes USL to more quickly move in the direction of an age-based system. Even then, organizations can buck that trend by not being dependent upon USL affiliation, but that will be determined by how what the masses choose to do in the face of such a USL change. If other more mature sports are the model (baseball, soccer, hockey), most will follow along.

I hear that my son plays with (and against) kids a grade lower and a year older

My son is 12 and plays on a U13 rec team. There are kids on his team and other teams that are 14. Lacrosse everywhere had been set-up in U11, U13, U15 for decades in which kids competed in 2 year gaps. Prefirst, holdback,reclass whatever you want to call it was not invented in the past 4-5 years. Rich people who send their kids to private elementary have been doing this forever. In the past the holdback kids just got a second year of u15 while most were off to 9th grade. Having you been saying lacrosse is broken for 30 years?

What Stenerson is hoping for is that by pushing recruiting back to junior year it curtails the "need" to be on the "right" club in 6th grade so that you can be "seen" in 8th. And the to get on the right club in 6th you better get in the system in 3rd. This is the mentality that has killed rec/town. The whole youth game has shifted to club from rec/town and very few of the kids will ever benefit from the added cost and expense.

BTW - US Lacrosse does not dictate the age rules unless they are running the event. Teams, leagues, tournaments decide on their own rules. Not sure why but this whole grade thing started when Long Island teams went to grade. When the LI clubs started traveling to what were rec tournaments in MD - Lax Splash, Beach Lax etc with names like LI Express 2019, Crush 2020 and killing teams the tide turned here in MD. Club directors realized they would have an age advantage by going grade - just because of the different school cut-offs. Before then all MD clubs (even Crabs) were age based as where all the local tournaments. Then all the clubs changed to grade and the tournaments followed so they wouldn't lose revenue. NY has by far the most teams and are the most willing to travel far and wide. If they were to change back to age, the tournaments would change again and other regions would have to follow.

The huge economic blow to recruiting events is going to start with the younger ages. Right now, parents/kids/clubs are pushing for their kids to start attending "recruiting" events starting in 7th grade, because until last week, 8th graders were actually getting recruited. Now, with the changes, I doubt there will be many 7th grade parents out there shelling out tons of money to have their 7th grader attend a recruiting event. So, moving forward, the 7th/8th/9th grade recruiting events will become non existent (this is were the organizers of these events are going to lose oodles of money). Yes, there will still be 9th/10th/11th grade recruiting events, but it will not start until a lot later than it does now.

USL put out there guidelines over a year ago - which are age based, in single year increments, with Sept 1 cutoff.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/sites/def.../player-segmentation-task-force-recs.pdf

Unfortunately the club lacrosse industry does follow or need to follow these guidelines

Broken for 30 years? Nope, only since going grade based.

What Stenerson is hoping for..."hope" sounds like a pretty weak justification for such a sweeping change.

WRT to being on the "right" club - we are never going back to the days of volunteer dads pitching in. Elite clubs, showcases and specialized coaching are here to stay. This is all part of the growth and evolution of the sport, something that USL talks about constantly, you can't have it both ways.

Club directors realized they would have an age advantage...apparently not since Crush still kills all the teams in MD.

USL put out guidelines - they have no teeth. The reliance upon USL is usually insurance based - the question is will USL deny benefits for any claim where a game/tournament is not age-based? Or, more specifically, will the underwriting carrier be that critical? That is where the rubber would hit the road in terms of compliance.

If US lacrosse actually cared to enforce these "guidelines" they would not provide insurance for violators. We should not be providing our US Lacrosse numbers to any tournament that does not enforce age based restrictions. They are a useless organization that does nothing for the sport.

My son plays baseball with those kids too

I find it rather amusing that the IWLCA who was pushing this are the ones who hold recruiting/ID tournaments all over. If they keep kids from committing early then they won't lose out on the $ for these kids who commit and say I'm done I'm only going to go to my college coaches camps. This way they can guarantee the $1,000+ a team pays to go to the tournaments and the kids will keep attending despite the fact now they will have no idea who is interested in them. This is just a win for club teams and the organizations that put on the tournaments. It's all about the Benjamin's!!!!

But at least they spent 50 million on a world class stadium/office/museum complex in the most expensive area of Baltimore County. Nothing says youth sports safety and advocacy like building a private ground up facility on a raw piece of land in Sparks, Maryland.

Priceless!

Oh Yeah! Elitest crooks! Love how they spend all the money they extort from families on the promise that they're growing the game.

1. They spend all the money they receive from donations, etc on their elite politically connected buddies. For example, Kylie Ohmiller was cut from team USA in favor of Kelly Rabil, who hasn't done [lacrosse] in years but knows Paul Rabil, give me a break. If someone's sucks, they should be cut.

2. They shower the politically connected with free flights hotel, equipment, meals, etc. How about use the money to sponsor FREE clinics to grow the sport.

3. Enforce some rules that matter. You know you can enforce age-based restrictions by implementing a birth certificate based card like soccer and baseball. Why do you refuse???

Fatheads are too busy designing their headquarters and funding cocktail parties,

Wake up people, this is what you are donating to.

STOP giving them money!

While you are right about the NY teams coming down here with grade based teams. That wasnt the reason MD teams went grade base.
That may have helped , but a NY grade base team is still 2-3 months younger than MD age based team at that time due to NY (DEC) and MD (sept) start dates for school.

The biggest facilitator of Maryland going grade base was the Pubic League of Howard County Recreation going grade base instead of a simple U10.U11, U12,U14,etc. etc.

What jerk came up with this must have had his child in Private school. Every league in Howard County Recreation was age based at the time, probably still is. But somehow these jerks decided to ruin YOUTH lacrosse and start a grade based league. WHY??

Howard County Recreation should get a special award in the HALL OF SHAME for youth sports.

Well with powerhouse clubs like roughriders, hoco, and zingos, is anyone not surprised that Howard county could single-handedly reshape youth lacrosse?

I would think that anyone that has committed early, current 2020/2021 commits, are really not liking this new rule. Because, now they will not have any contact with their future coach until the start of
Their Junior year, and I bet they are going to really feel the pressure of "what are they thinking", because now they get that occasional validation of "we still want you". I do hope that none of them get that call on Sept 1 of their Junior year saying "sorry, we aren't interested anymore _______". not a good place to be in.

Age based won't replace grade until the larger Long Island Clubs make the switch. They have the power to end the hold back debate. From there LI PAL wil adopt and each adjacent state. One LI club director called it the "wild west" in a an interview. But I doubt things will change.

You're correct, those girls and also the girls that were in talks and maybe close to committing will feel MORE pressure and anxious now worrying if they still want them.

I was asked by us lax for a copy of my kids birth certificate last year. I called and they said they are verifying ages that it would take a while but they were starting the process.

Lol, maybe you'll hear back from them when you're kid is in college. The organization is inept.

Speaking as a 2020 commit parent whose family was perfectly happy with their choice. I feel much more for that kid who had offers on the table and was weighing options only for the NCAA to pass a rule affective 'immediately" right in the middle of most D1 coaches playoff run. How is that fair to the athlete, his family and the coaches. It's not the rule that isn't fair, its ridiculous implementation with no thought for those most involved is. Another shameful act by the NCAA for a sport that makes them no money and most likely influenced by those that most benefit and we all know who they are.
Also, its been mentioned numerous times that a "verbal commitment" is nothing more or nothing less. This rule is totally irrelevant to the concept that a coach would back out. Anybody that knows lacrosse, knows that the commitment has always been based on the integrity of the college which in a majority of cases has been honored by the school more that the athlete him or her self.
And just a little education : According to the NCAA a Prospective Student Athlete (PSA) isn't one till their Freshman year of high school and doesn't fall under the umbrella or sanction of the NCCA until one. Public scorn possibly but the passed legislation technically doesn't apply. So don't be surprised if this rule totally backfires and if a team feels fits will be committing more 8th graders. Just happened last week.
Some educated replies welcomed. A statement by the NCAA or US lacrosse even more.

I think that is an excellent point on the definition of a PSA.....can you say loophole? For all those wanting to see a change for the kids sake, remember its the adults who are the ones behind it all. Pretty obvious US Lacrosse role behind it and the campaign to get everyone who's kid isn't a 10% blue chip to promote how great the proposal is for the sport. Wake up people and be prepared to reopen your wallets, an inept self declaring lead organization that does very little but as for survey input and your membership money. Now has the NCAA coaches reminding them of the dollars that are being left on the fields. The prospect camps and money grab continues....interesting how lacrosse is the fastest growing sport but years behind soccer and other sports in leadership direction and national governing policy. Congratulations....and sucker everyone into believing that you have data to support the negativity of a few committing to opportunity. You have to blame it on something, Snowflakes.

[quote=Anonymous]I think that is an excellent point on the definition of a PSA.....can you say loophole? For all those wanting to see a change for the kids sake, remember its the adults who are the ones behind it all. Pretty obvious US Lacrosse role behind it and the campaign to get everyone who's kid isn't a 10% blue chip to promote how great the proposal is for the sport. Wake up people and be prepared to reopen your wallets, an inept self declaring lead organization that does very little but as for survey input and your membership money. Now has the NCAA coaches reminding them of the dollars that are being left on the fields. The prospect camps and money grab continues....interesting how lacrosse is the fastest growing sport but years behind soccer and other sports in leadership direction and national governing policy. Congratulations....and sucker everyone into believing that you have data to support the negativity of a few committing to opportunity. You have to blame it on something, Snowflakes. [/quote
Help me understand why it is a bad thing that kids will have to wait to commit until their Junior year? No one is taking any opportunity away. I don't understand the problem

This is a very good point about the definition of PSA, it will be interesting to see if some teams continue to recruit 8th graders. My bet is, if they do, that loophole will be closed soon.

And as far as verbals only being a "handshake" deal, everyone knows that too. But when a future coach can have constant contact with a kid I think is easier to be confident in that deal. I wouldn't think if I kid continues to perform very well and keeps their grades up they will have no problem. But, I also think that now, with the rule changes, coaches are going to be actively watching lot she of kids up to and including Junior year, they may end up finding lots of kids they like better. With the old rules, coaches weren't actively watching the older kids, they were too busy being camped out at 8th and 9tj grade games. Since their rosters were already "full" they didn't waste too much time watching the developed athletes. Now they will

An on age kid who is a good student benefits tremendously from these rule changes. Reclassed kids were the primary target of ER and the majority of them went to Big 10 and ACC schools. There are a whole lot of very good schools out there with excellent lacrosse programs that didn't play the ER game who are doing quite well. Their attractiveness to potential recruits just got a boost because the mad dash for a roster spot and a shout out from TY Xanders no longer exists.

This is good for the kids and the sport.

100% agree, which is why I am so baffled as to why people are complaining

Agree, The 8th/9th graders with full beards are the ones who will lose out. By 9/1 of junior year their classmates will have caught up physically......

So true!

This rule is going to be terrible for parity in college lacrosse. Especially on the girls' side. MD was offering 8th and 9th graders and filling their class up by the time they were done 9th grade. There were a lot of misses in those classes in terms of girls that didn't continue to develop for whatever reason. Now MD and other top schools get to wait until their junior year before offering these kids. By then, they will have a lot better idea of who is going to be the top players at the next level.

Schools offer about 10 1/4 scholarships a year.

Most schools were willing to gamble 2-4 of those scholarships on 8th or 9th graders.

Overall that is not much of a gamble if you get 6-8 legitimate safe kids when they are older and probably 1/2 of the early recruits do pan out.

Not that big a change for the schools other than no longer wasting resources on reviewing younger kids.

Big change for the kids since now they don't have to stress about recruiting until their sophomore year.

Schools will continue to recruit before the 11th grade. Communications are now through a non-coach of the athlete. Not all 3rd party contact has been or will be eliminated. It will be more complicated for all parties, but coaches are incentivized enough to identify and offer prospects as soon as they can. After the NCAA sessions ends in 4 days, and the conversation slows, business as usual.

Completely wrong , a3rd party acting as a go between and discussing scholarship offers is already illegal. Will it still go on probably until some program gets caught and loses scholarships .