BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

You're right. The coaches in several articles said it was effective immediately to avoid "chaos" this summer. Clearly, the legislation says August 1, 2017. US Lacrosse is so eager to have this passed they probably never read the legislation. Regardless, best to get on one of the top teams because now it's all about the club director. . .

Okay so it's status quo until August 1. In theory there should be a flurry of verbal commitments before that time then.

I'm trying to sort this out. From what I can tell:

1. the rules go into effect immediately

2. coaches can still attend tournaments and recruiting events (eg, Nike Elite 120) but can't have contact with athletes or their parents (unless the athletes is already a senior)

3. there are different rules for "institutional camps" (ie, sports camps run by the coaches on or near campus that follow very specific NCAA rules). I'm not sure whether the new rules prohibit them because I can't find anything that definitively calls attendance at such a camp as an "unofficial visit". I know the definition of unofficial visit is very broad, but I also see that institutional camps are treated differently. Most coaches need the camps for extra income. Did the NCAA just take away that income? Seems unlikely.

Anyone know for sure?

No, NCAA clarified that it is effective IMMEDIATELY

So coaches who wanted this legislation to avoid early commits are going to go on an early commit frenzy?

Agree completely. on the girls side look at the committed list for the 20's lots of people settled for schools just to be ahead of the ruling. That's what I call picking a school for the wrong reasons but you know us crazy lax parents.........

Seems to me for 2020s and 2021s the key is to:

1) Make sure you are on a good club team that can access college coaches
2) Make clear to the Club coach the schools you kid is interested in attending
3) Send summer tournament schedule/grades/test scores to college coaches
4) Attend the prospect days at the schools your child is interested in

Can schools still do prospect days? If so when can they?

The NCAA has not released anything officially.

yeah it says right in the "legislation" August 1st. nothing in it says "immediately"


likely to go completely unenforced anyway. these coaches are doing some window dressing thats all. duke coach saying "now they wont be so beholden to the clubs, so they can go on family vacations..." what a joke..

I'd love to know what 2020 kids you think "settled"?

So I need a club director to tell me a school is interested in my son. I can't speak to the coach, my son can't speak to the coach, see the athletic facilities with the staff, discuss opportunities, finances, philosophies, majors, meet the players, see a practice. After all of this that we can't do, my son will then commit to the school. Sounds like a solid plan for his future. Come on folks lets be realistic. I know you have a product to sell, but you'll have to do better than that.

Yes, who settled? We didnt see any commits posted yesterday

Any girl that commited to a bottom D1 team like Hofstra, St. Joe's, Lasalle, East Carolina.... etc.

Seems to me that clubs will become less important in the recruiting process, putting the HS coach in a more important role in the recruiting process. If a college coach can't actively recruit prior to 9/1 of Junior year, what use is an 8th grade club coach/director?

You can do all of that when 9/1 of his Jr year starts - exactly as it should be. Until then, just let him be a typical HS kid play and enjoy the game.

Completely agree. I am sick to my stomach with the dirtbag owners of some of these clubs.

As a parent of a 2018 that committed as a sophomore. The U11, U13 and U15 were the most enjoyable for the kids and parents alike. Kids playing, competing and trying to win the tournament. Too much emphasis on recruiting in this sport at the youth ages. The HS age recruiting tournaments / showcases are excessive money grabs! No championship games! Too much emphasis on showing well and not playing well as a team. I say this as a firm believer that winning is not everything, but if they are keeping score it would be great to have the games mean something with a championship game to hopefully compete for. It will be great to see the kids play again for each other and not for the college coaches.

The kids that hit the books first and the wall second have better college choices. I wouldn't say Hofstra is settling academically it's still probably a B+ school but with a huge price tag. There are many early commits at schools where all you need is a HS diploma and your application fee

Except that the recruiting isnt going to stop. All the coaches that stood in front of a microphone or camera and said how they were all for this....will be using every loop hole and back door to continue making contact through club coaches. Offers will still be made and commitments will still happen, they just wont be made public. And like the parent above stated, you will now have to do this without the benefit of legitimate contact / tours etc..It is going to make recruiting an even dirtier / dark practice.

Stop with the drama, ypu can still go check out the school on your own and check into the academics without talking to the coach.

Agreed. "Early Recruiting" really was not a "dark" dirty place to begin with. If you look at the numbers, it impacted a very small percentage of kids who actually play the sport. I agree with this post in that now the environment has been created to make it a real behind the scenes backroom process. I guess it's just wait and see.

I disagree. Verbal commitments are for kids and parents to brag about their kids. They serve absoluely no other purpose. What good would it be if they can't tell people that they are committed??? From a coaching perspective, this makes their job easier so, no, I seriously doubt they would try to find any loopholes. Now they don't have to take a crap shoot on a kid who hasn't even played JV yet and can wait till they've matured as a player/student/ person.

This is the very best thing because it takes a ton of pressure off of the boys and girls, and to a lesser extent, the parents who are living vicariously through them.

So the theory is your kid commits, he can't tell anyone, the coach can't tell anyone, his club director can't tell other coaches who secretly meet in a back alley, he can't talk to the coach, he can't visit the school and a few years later, they finally meet having kept this deep dark secret.. Interesting?? C'mon now, lets get real folks!!

It was effective immediately last week. Your kid will have to wait to verbal. It's not the end of the world.

Where was your son competing in UX age groups since almnost nowhere in the mid-Atlantic and/or NE follows any age based system(s) (although they should!)??

It will be interesting to see just how much self control these college coaches have. It is human nature to find loopholes in order to gain a competitive advantage. Once a few do it others will follow. Coaches will continue to make early verbal offers but now it may just be to the very best kids. Maybe they will fill out 1/3 or 1/2 of a class before the junior year deadline. I'm guessing college coaches will still encourage players via their travel coach to attend camps and clinics on their campus because once there they can speak with the kids and their parents. Kids and parents will continue to accept early offers if the opportunity and money makes sense - regardless of whether or not they can share it publicly. Why would they wait and risk injury etc if it is the right situation and a generous offer.

the coaches wanted this so I'm not sure why they would do back door deals that in essence could lead to severe NCAA penalties. For a non income sport the university would certainly fire the coach and staff. Football is worth millions as well as basketball so I get it, but a non funded sport? Doesn't make sense.

But wait - You mean I spent 45k so my phenom could repeat 8th in order to look like a total stud and now he can't get a verbal commitment til he is old enough for a school to actually properly evaluate him? But...but..

If it is 'off the books' so to speak, it is non-binding, and an injury, etc basically makes it so the agreement never existed anyway - you have not mitigated any risk by accepting an early 'offer'.

because its illegal to verbal early now that's why

The craziest of parents made sure their kid finalized their verbal before the rule change. Now those crazies can hold court all by themselves on the sidelines for 2-3 years as part of an exclusive club. Verbal news will go dark for current 8th and 9th graders for 2 or 3 years so all the talk will be about their kid just the way they wanted it.

The one loophole on the rule is club coaches can still talk to coaches so that keeps the BS money train flowing to these thieves in the middle now more than ever. Maybe now more kids stick with the sport

Express just sent an informative email about this.

September of Jr year is 17 months from now for 2020s. It's not that long to wait.

Can you share what they said?

If your kids verbal was not completed before Friday's ruling you will have to wait till 9/1 of junior year. It was effective immediately after the vote.

Hi, my name is Danie Caro, and I am the IWLCA Director of Communications. The NCAA text posted earlier is for the initial "proposal," which is not what was actually adopted. The original proposal was amended to change the effective date to "IMMEDIATE," and that is what was adopted by the Division I Council. Here is how the adopted legislation appears in the NCAA LSDBi:

Division I Proposal - 2017-1
RECRUITING -- OFF-CAMPUS CONTACTS, TELEPHONE CALLS AND UNOFFICIAL VISITS -- SEPTEMBER 1 OF JUNIOR YEAR -- LACROSSE
Status: Adopted Final
Intent: In lacrosse, to specify that: (1) off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school and that contacts that occur during a prospective student-athlete's junior year may occur only at the prospective student-athlete's educational institution or residence; (2) telephone calls may not be received from an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school; and (3) an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.
A. Bylaws: Amend 13.1.1.1, as follows:
13.1.1.1 Time Period for Off-Campus Contacts -- General Rule. Off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before July 1following the completion of his or her junior year in high school (July 7 after the junior year in high school in women's ice hockey and July 15 after the junior year in high school in women's gymnastics), or the opening day of classes of his or her senior year in high school (as designated by the high school), whichever is earlier. U.S. service academy exceptions to this provision are set forth in Bylaw 13.16.1. [D]
[13.1.1.1.1 unchanged.]
13.1.1.1.2 Exception -- Women's Basketball and Lacrosse. In women's basketball and lacrosse, off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school. Contacts that occur during a prospective student-athlete's junior year may occur only at the prospective student-athlete's educational institution or residence. [D]
[13.1.1.1.3 unchanged.]
B. Bylaws: Amend 13.1.3, as follows:
13.1.3 Telephone Calls.
[13.1.3.1 unchanged.]
13.1.3.2 Additional Restrictions.
[13.1.3.2.1 unchanged.]
13.1.3.2.2 Telephone Calls Initiated by Prospective Student-Athlete at His or Her Expense -- Sports Other Than Lacrosse. Institutional In sports other than lacrosse, institutional staff members may receive telephone calls placed by a prospective student-athlete at the prospective student-athlete's own expense at any time, including before September 1 at the beginning of the prospective student-athlete's junior year in high school.
13.1.3.2.2.1 Telephone Calls From a Prospective Student-Athlete -- Lacrosse. In lacrosse, institutional staff members may not receive telephone calls from an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.
[13.1.3.3 through 13.1.3.7 unchanged.]
C. Bylaws: Amend 13.7, as follows:
13.7 Unofficial (Nonpaid) Visit.
13.7.1 Number Permitted. A prospective student-athlete may visit a member institution's campus at his or her own expense an unlimited number of times. A prospective student-athlete may make unofficial visits before his or her senior year in high school.
[13.7.1.1 through 13.7.1.2 unchanged.]
13.7.1.3 Exception -- Lacrosse. In lacrosse, an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement (e.g., contact with athletics department staff, athletics-specific tour, complimentary admission) shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.
[13.7.2 through 13.7.3 unchanged.]
Source: NCAA Division I Council (Student-Athlete Experience Committee)
Effective Date: Immediate
Proposal Category: Amendment
Topical Area: Recruiting
Rationale: This proposal is intended to simplify the legislation by making September 1 of a prospective student-athlete's junior year the starting date for all communications and contacts. Without a restriction on the receipt of telephone calls, the other recruiting restrictions fall short of curtailing early recruiting. Currently, an institution's coach may ask a club coach to have the prospective student-athlete contact him or her. This proposal will simplify the application of recruiting communication legislation and address the issue of early recruiting. Currently there is no initial date for unofficial visits with athletics department involvement to begin. This proposal is being recommended as noncontroversial legislation, inasmuch as broader consultation and debate are unlikely to improve the proposal in any substantial way, significant disagreement or alternative points of view will not be generated and there does not appear to be a significant impact on existing or proposed legislation.
Estimated Budget Impact: None.
Impact on Student-Athlete's Time (Academic and/or Athletics): None.
History
Apr 14, 2017:
Adopted Final

It does seem to state August 1st as an effective date.

Any ideas on if this will change the summer circuit of camps, showcases, tournaments, etc.? Can kids still talk to coaches during on-campus camps or has the NCAA rule changed this also?

You can still verbal through the club coach as the intermediary. Doesn't seem much has changed?