BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

Can you share what they said?

Hi, my name is Danie Caro, and I am the IWLCA Director of Communications. The NCAA text posted earlier is for the initial "proposal," which is not what was actually adopted. The original proposal was amended to change the effective date to "IMMEDIATE," and that is what was adopted by the Division I Council. Here is how the adopted legislation appears in the NCAA LSDBi:

Division I Proposal - 2017-1
RECRUITING -- OFF-CAMPUS CONTACTS, TELEPHONE CALLS AND UNOFFICIAL VISITS -- SEPTEMBER 1 OF JUNIOR YEAR -- LACROSSE
Status: Adopted Final
Intent: In lacrosse, to specify that: (1) off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school and that contacts that occur during a prospective student-athlete's junior year may occur only at the prospective student-athlete's educational institution or residence; (2) telephone calls may not be received from an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school; and (3) an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.
A. Bylaws: Amend 13.1.1.1, as follows:
13.1.1.1 Time Period for Off-Campus Contacts -- General Rule. Off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before July 1following the completion of his or her junior year in high school (July 7 after the junior year in high school in women's ice hockey and July 15 after the junior year in high school in women's gymnastics), or the opening day of classes of his or her senior year in high school (as designated by the high school), whichever is earlier. U.S. service academy exceptions to this provision are set forth in Bylaw 13.16.1. [D]
[13.1.1.1.1 unchanged.]
13.1.1.1.2 Exception -- Women's Basketball and Lacrosse. In women's basketball and lacrosse, off-campus recruiting contacts shall not be made with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school. Contacts that occur during a prospective student-athlete's junior year may occur only at the prospective student-athlete's educational institution or residence. [D]
[13.1.1.1.3 unchanged.]
B. Bylaws: Amend 13.1.3, as follows:
13.1.3 Telephone Calls.
[13.1.3.1 unchanged.]
13.1.3.2 Additional Restrictions.
[13.1.3.2.1 unchanged.]
13.1.3.2.2 Telephone Calls Initiated by Prospective Student-Athlete at His or Her Expense -- Sports Other Than Lacrosse. Institutional In sports other than lacrosse, institutional staff members may receive telephone calls placed by a prospective student-athlete at the prospective student-athlete's own expense at any time, including before September 1 at the beginning of the prospective student-athlete's junior year in high school.
13.1.3.2.2.1 Telephone Calls From a Prospective Student-Athlete -- Lacrosse. In lacrosse, institutional staff members may not receive telephone calls from an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.
[13.1.3.3 through 13.1.3.7 unchanged.]
C. Bylaws: Amend 13.7, as follows:
13.7 Unofficial (Nonpaid) Visit.
13.7.1 Number Permitted. A prospective student-athlete may visit a member institution's campus at his or her own expense an unlimited number of times. A prospective student-athlete may make unofficial visits before his or her senior year in high school.
[13.7.1.1 through 13.7.1.2 unchanged.]
13.7.1.3 Exception -- Lacrosse. In lacrosse, an unofficial visit with athletics department involvement (e.g., contact with athletics department staff, athletics-specific tour, complimentary admission) shall not occur with an individual (or his or her relatives or legal guardians) before September 1 at the beginning of his or her junior year in high school.
[13.7.2 through 13.7.3 unchanged.]
Source: NCAA Division I Council (Student-Athlete Experience Committee)
Effective Date: Immediate
Proposal Category: Amendment
Topical Area: Recruiting
Rationale: This proposal is intended to simplify the legislation by making September 1 of a prospective student-athlete's junior year the starting date for all communications and contacts. Without a restriction on the receipt of telephone calls, the other recruiting restrictions fall short of curtailing early recruiting. Currently, an institution's coach may ask a club coach to have the prospective student-athlete contact him or her. This proposal will simplify the application of recruiting communication legislation and address the issue of early recruiting. Currently there is no initial date for unofficial visits with athletics department involvement to begin. This proposal is being recommended as noncontroversial legislation, inasmuch as broader consultation and debate are unlikely to improve the proposal in any substantial way, significant disagreement or alternative points of view will not be generated and there does not appear to be a significant impact on existing or proposed legislation.
Estimated Budget Impact: None.
Impact on Student-Athlete's Time (Academic and/or Athletics): None.
History
Apr 14, 2017:
Adopted Final

You can still verbal through the club coach as the intermediary. Doesn't seem much has changed?

What about emails? There is nothing mentioned about email contact just telephone calls

You can still verbal through the club coach as the intermediary. Doesn't seem much has changed?

You can still verbal through the club coach as the intermediary. Doesn't seem much has changed?

I agree with that, however some 2020's were in talks with coaches already, had visits etc.
They are in limbo now waiting to see what happens.

I agree with that, however some 2020's were in talks with coaches already, had visits etc.
They are in limbo now waiting to see what happens.

We received an email from a coach that stated that they cannot even speak to the club director, per the regulation. I only see parents, relatives and legal guardians. Is this in fact true, can they not speak to the club directors either?

2019's could have been close to making decisions as well...

Thoughts on college coaches attendance at summer tournaments?

It would have been more convincing that the rule change was in the best interest of the kids if they actually had thought about the ramifications to 2020s and 2019 and made it effective for years 2021 and later as the 2020s are going into 10th grade in a few months and a good number of the higher level players are already committed and others in serious talks. The 2019s are in an awkward position but will self correct in 4 months. The least they could have done is kept with the original 8/1 published date so the kids in serious talks already could have closed the loop with coaches they already have a relationship with and had reassurance and direction for action plans over the next 16 months. If they wanted to rush and commit than so be it. Seemed very dirty to publish one date and let everyone plan for that and then switch it to immediately- proof that it was simply for the benefit of club directors and those colleges that were not able to compete with early recruiting.

That is exactly my point. Your daughter can be on a team with 4 or more 2020's already committed, was in the talks and visits stage and now have to wait 17 more months? That was very dirty to switch the date. Some ivy's were waiting for end of freshmen year report cards.

That is exactly my point. Your daughter can be on a team with 4 or more 2020's already committed, was in the talks and visits stage and now have to wait 17 more months? That was very dirty to switch the date. Some ivy's were waiting for end of freshmen year report cards.

the the college can still contact the club coach or club representative about a prospective player. they just cant contact the player and the player cant contact the coach. the way i read it verbals can still be given out, and accepted by the player before the junior year, but your going out on a limb having no contact with the coach and praying that they are the best for your daughter without actually talking to them.

2019's could have been close to making decisions as well...

Thoughts on college coaches attendance at summer tournaments?

The new legislation does not say that club coaches and college coaches cannot talk. College and Club/HS coaches have always been permitted to speak to each other - that has not changed. However, what most people don't realize is that it is already impermissible for college coaches to use the club or HS coach as a "go-between" to conduct recruiting conversations with a prospect before September 1 of their junior year. So a college coach can speak to the club/HS coach to evaluate a sophomore prospect, but they cannot say "Have Susie Superstar be in my office next Friday at 10 am so we can make her a scholarship offer." That would constitute a recruiting conversation and is not permissible under current NCAA rules (in any sport, as per a 1994 NCAA Interpretation regarding Bylaw 13.1.3 and 13.4.1).

As a follow up, the IWLCA Legal Counsel recently received verbal confirmation of this interpretation from the NCAA, and have requested an updated official interpretation. We expect to receive that later this week or early next week and will circulate as appropriate. Bottom line is that a college coach can have evaluative discussions with HS or club coaches, but recruiting conversations intended to circumvent NCAA rules are PROHIBITED. Please be patient as we work with the NCAA to clarify the rules and produce educational materials for the lacrosse community. It is in everyone's best interests for college coaches, prospects and their families, high school coaches, and club coaches to all be on the same page in their understanding of the new rules and how the recruiting process will change, so you can be certain we will share any information we have with the larger lacrosse community.

If you have specific questions about the new legislation, please email me so that we can add them to the FAQ we are preparing. I can be reached at dcaroiwlca@gmail.com

Thank you.

I really thought we'd have more time. My daughter is a 2020 and she had some opportunities but still wanted to visit two more schools, and we kind of thought we'd have until August 1, as we told a couple of teams that she would make a decision in the summer because she just turned 14. They were OK with that. In a way it does take the pressure off, but it would have been nice if they maybe gave the 2020 and 2021s time to finish what they started. In the end I have no doubts it will work out fine for my daughter.

That is exactly my point. Your daughter can be on a team with 4 or more 2020's already committed, was in the talks and visits stage and now have to wait 17 more months? That was very dirty to switch the date. Some ivy's were waiting for end of freshmen year report cards.

The new legislation does not say that club coaches and college coaches cannot talk. College and Club/HS coaches have always been permitted to speak to each other - that has not changed. However, what most people don't realize is that it is already impermissible for college coaches to use the club or HS coach as a "go-between" to conduct recruiting conversations with a prospect before September 1 of their junior year. So a college coach can speak to the club/HS coach to evaluate a sophomore prospect, but they cannot say "Have Susie Superstar be in my office next Friday at 10 am so we can make her a scholarship offer." That would constitute a recruiting conversation and is not permissible under current NCAA rules (in any sport, as per a 1994 NCAA Interpretation regarding Bylaw 13.1.3 and 13.4.1).

As a follow up, the IWLCA Legal Counsel recently received verbal confirmation of this interpretation from the NCAA, and have requested an updated official interpretation. We expect to receive that later this week or early next week and will circulate as appropriate. Bottom line is that a college coach can have evaluative discussions with HS or club coaches, but recruiting conversations intended to circumvent NCAA rules are PROHIBITED. Please be patient as we work with the NCAA to clarify the rules and produce educational materials for the lacrosse community. It is in everyone's best interests for college coaches, prospects and their families, high school coaches, and club coaches to all be on the same page in their understanding of the new rules and how the recruiting process will change, so you can be certain we will share any information we have with the larger lacrosse community.

If you have specific questions about the new legislation, please email me so that we can add them to the FAQ we are preparing. I can be reached at dcaroiwlca@gmail.com

Thank you.

The new legislation does not say that club coaches and college coaches cannot talk. College and Club/HS coaches have always been permitted to speak to each other - that has not changed. However, what most people don't realize is that it is already impermissible for college coaches to use the club or HS coach as a "go-between" to conduct recruiting conversations with a prospect before September 1 of their junior year. So a college coach can speak to the club/HS coach to evaluate a sophomore prospect, but they cannot say "Have Susie Superstar be in my office next Friday at 10 am so we can make her a scholarship offer." That would constitute a recruiting conversation and is not permissible under current NCAA rules (in any sport, as per a 1994 NCAA Interpretation regarding Bylaw 13.1.3 and 13.4.1).

As a follow up, the IWLCA Legal Counsel recently received verbal confirmation of this interpretation from the NCAA, and have requested an updated official interpretation. We expect to receive that later this week or early next week and will circulate as appropriate. Bottom line is that a college coach can have evaluative discussions with HS or club coaches, but recruiting conversations intended to circumvent NCAA rules are PROHIBITED. Please be patient as we work with the NCAA to clarify the rules and produce educational materials for the lacrosse community. It is in everyone's best interests for college coaches, prospects and their families, high school coaches, and club coaches to all be on the same page in their understanding of the new rules and how the recruiting process will change, so you can be certain we will share any information we have with the larger lacrosse community.

If you have specific questions about the new legislation, please email me so that we can add them to the FAQ we are preparing. I can be reached at dcaroiwlca@gmail.com

Thank you.

Perhaps they should have thought about the ramifications and had clarification with respect to the legislation ready PRIOR to approving it? Also the switch and bait with the implementation date was very dirty and breeds distrust. They have left the 2020s in a terrible position if they have already verbally committed or were in serious talks with coaches. As someone mentioned earlier...the genie was already out of the bottle for that class. Those kids will be in 10th grade and 16 years old in 4 1/2 months- certainly old enough to decide upon college preferences or they should be talking to coaches/visiting schools to try to narrow things down. The Ivy's who the rule was really created for would have had a year of high school grades to gauge things and the kids would have had a season of high school play which was the complaint all along - that the early commits had not played a season of high school yet. This does nothing but cause more issues and takes the parents out of much of the process.

Perhaps they should have thought about the ramifications and had clarification with respect to the legislation ready PRIOR to approving it? Also the switch and bait with the implementation date was very dirty and breeds distrust. They have left the 2020s in a terrible position if they have already verbally committed or were in serious talks with coaches. As someone mentioned earlier...the genie was already out of the bottle for that class. Those kids will be in 10th grade and 16 years old in 4 1/2 months- certainly old enough to decide upon college preferences or they should be talking to coaches/visiting schools to try to narrow things down. The Ivy's who the rule was really created for would have had a year of high school grades to gauge things and the kids would have had a season of high school play which was the complaint all along - that the early commits had not played a season of high school yet. This does nothing but cause more issues and takes the parents out of much of the process.

Perhaps they should have thought about the ramifications and had clarification with respect to the legislation ready PRIOR to approving it? Also the switch and bait with the implementation date was very dirty and breeds distrust. They have left the 2020s in a terrible position if they have already verbally committed or were in serious talks with coaches. As someone mentioned earlier...the genie was already out of the bottle for that class. Those kids will be in 10th grade and 16 years old in 4 1/2 months- certainly old enough to decide upon college preferences or they should be talking to coaches/visiting schools to try to narrow things down. The Ivy's who the rule was really created for would have had a year of high school grades to gauge things and the kids would have had a season of high school play which was the complaint all along - that the early commits had not played a season of high school yet. This does nothing but cause more issues and takes the parents out of much of the process.

<world's smallest violin . . .>

<world's smallest violin . . .>