BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums PENNSYLVANIA LACROSSE PENNSYLVANIA FORUM Boys 2023

Maybe they only had their local group at a local fall tournament? They did pretty well in Tampa against the best team in the 2023 age group.

That is because they used kids from 2022 and 2021 that tourney has different age restrictions

Lead by 2022's. The fogo from what I read won at some ridiculous clip.

And the other one was big and fast.

Don't you mean they had age restrictions? That's a new argument, The kids are the same age, so it's not fair??

The 91 Fogo won championship game MVP. How good could the Dukes fogo have been?

Do those teams really have Fogo's? I'm sure there are many different perspectives on this, but it seems like they are willing to win at the expense of the kid getting reasonable play time. That seems like a crime to me at this age, but maybe chasing the elusive D1 full ride is worth it?

The 91 kid is not a fogo. He may come off if he needs a break, but for the most part he plays substantial minutes at midfield... especially because he's the coach's kid.

Dicks TOC does it differently. We considred going and spoke to them. The qualifier is the year before and their DOB requirement was mid summer not the USL 9/1. To further confuse things they did something funky with the age in that the eligibility was determined to be not based on a traditional 2023 team for this instance but rather accommodated 2022 age kids as well. I forget wthat it was but it was very odd way of handling and when we realized our 2023 team was actually playing against 2022 teams we decided to not go.

It appears this tournament has lost some of its luster and attendance is spotty at best.

I posted a question about the event that seems to go ignored on another board. You are required to qualify for the event as a team yet for the actual event you can take whoever you want. The entire thing is a scam, either you go to grad year or stop having teams qualify. To call it a U11 event and have 7th graders playing is comical.

the age cutoff is 6/1. Anyone born 6/1/04 was eligible to play in the U11 tournament. Anyone born before had to play U13.

i think you referring to the fact that they view as a season ending championship for preceding summer. Ie you qualify by winning or making a final in certain tournements from the past summer. As such u11, u13 etc is based on the age parameters for the 2015-16 season not 2016-17. Therefore if you were a 2022 team last summer you would qualify for u11 at TOC as long as you didn;t have hold backs born before 6/1/04. In other words next year your team will be eligible for u11

But a 2023 team won it ?

91 Bandits exceptional. Plus not a strong field

Bandits did win it and they are clearly the best 2023 team. However if allowed to bring "down" tournament eligible 2022 players have to imagine some key members were brought down. There is a big difference in development at this age. But let's call this what it was and that is a poorly attended tournament with subpar teams and only 2 good teams in this bracket. They could have met somewhere off 95 and done the same thing

The tournament is U11 which is 2023s for this year, U13 being the 2021's. The only kids allowed as 2022's in a U11 tournament are the ones with summer birthdays 6/1/2004 or younger. In a lot of cases those kids are PreK/ holdbacks and are already on 2023 teams around the country. Any 2022's that played in U11 are the ones that their parents didn't holdback. The playing field is equal, the teams with older holdbacks playing on their 2023 teams can't or don't play.

And of course they could have met off of 95. Did you expect Florida NC and Kentucky teams to be as good as the northeast teams? It was warm and sunny in December, I'm sure they had a great time.

Of course they had a great time, who wouldn't, Florida in the winter??
My point was that this tournament used to be stacked with tons of teams that came down from the NorthEast and now not so much.

Right. I think the holdback movement killed it. Too many teams top 3 or 4 kids are too old and they don't want to go without their "best kids".

Actually this tournament is the perfect tournament for holdbacks because it is based in the age the player was last year when the team qualified and you don't have to even come with the same kids that got you into the tournament. That is why Dukes was able to come with 2022 kids. Totally within tournament rules but think about it 2022 s playing U11??

Did time stop for everyone but Dukes? Kids born 6/1/2004 are still born 6/1/2004 the next year.

Wee bit sensitive are ya. Said that you were within the rules and many likely did the same thing but the rules in this tourney were different than most not a big deal got your panties in a bit of a bunch ?

Just heard a commercial for bbq grills. Lax season must me near.

Just read this in the LI forum. It's relevant enough to post here:

Went to Dukes National "tryout" this past Saturday. Buyer beware. The practice was 3hrs and 10 minutes long. They did the same 5v4 drill for 2hrs and 30 minutes of it. The same 3 kids on attack the whole time - never rotated any 2023 attackmen (until the 2022s showed up - then they alternated with those 3 attackmen). This was the biggest disappointment ever. For new kids they gave them pinnies with no numbers on them. The coaches had no clipboards in their hands. This was not a tryout - a total MONEY GRAB! I will say it again - BUYER BEWARE!

Oh yes, and they raised the fee to $895...

They don't need numbers bc they actually spend the time and effort to learn the boys names. They then also talk to us parents about our sons. My kid had a great time. Its not for everybody.

Ebe Helm the founder set the bar with the original Dukes Club and it became the gold standard in club. The leadership at the youth level it is all about the money. Total train wreck.

If you have a solid team that you already play for why would you spend another 2k for a few practices and 2 tournaments? I am not saying whether the team is good or not, but if its so great, like we keep hearing, why isn't everyone quitting there teams and playing full time with them?

because it is not intended to replace my sons primary club. Its a once a month thing for kids that want to play more with other kids that are both good and motivated. The kids on the team are from all over which makes it fun and different- they want kids who want to play more - I know our club can't play ALL the time and so my son goes to Dukes every time he can...

That is a bunch of BS - they never addressed him once or asked what position he played. You checked in and received a pinnie upstairs and for all I know the coaches downstairs didn't even know who was signed up.

At the end the coaches gave the usual song and dance about how much they care and how great the program is. But to reiterate:

- they never asked the kids what position they played
- they did the same drill for 2hrs and 30 minutes
- the same 3 attackmen played the whole time - no subbing
- no pinnies with numbers - no clipboards for the coaches

If you were there you know I am right.

Again, I couldn't have been more disappointed especially because I had heard this organization was different. But clearly just more of the same.

Dukes National Team - BUYER BEWARE!

Its not for everyone. Yes, buyer beware. My son loves it. You do not. Keep looking for the right fit for you (and your son), its out there.

Let's see here!

-Notices of players who did NOT make the DN team this past weekend went out at 9am sharp.
-Minutes later this person posts hate mail because their son did not make the cut.
- Clipboards: Your 2023 Lefty attacker is a good sizes kid, decent game knowledge, level 6 out of 10 on stick skills, slow feet and is soft on ground balls. We can tell you his name, Club Team he plays for and his scorpio sign. LOL
-Also If you want your son to be a number then stay where you are. Sound like a Plan Dan

FACT: I was there with my son and did not get the "Did not make it email...". 2:30 minutes of 5v4. Both coaches sons sat on attack for 90% of that time. Not one bit of instruction the entire time. Not one clipboard, not one ounce of training or development. There were random younger kids running around the turf field while this was all going on. BUYER BEWARE for sure!

I was at the earlier session for 2024 and 2025. It was extremely wel run with the exception the 2025 were not seperated and got beaten up . I do agree it was awkward with no numbers so am curious how they knew who was who . My one piece of advice to dukes would be to do the transition before the 2023 come out and use both sides of the turf. Less standing around then. Other than that , it was high energy and lots of instruction. Well worth the trip for us.

The concept is a good one. This particular team will never be good because there are 2 dads coaching the team and they both have sons that play attack and neither are elite players not starting attack. This is daddy ball at its finest. Our team played them and the score was 5-0 and the problem was the attack was non existent as validated by the -0- in the scoreboard. Daddy ball is always a factor and this team is particularly bad. Their 2022 team however is excellent

No skiin in this. But 6-5 loss to bandits is pretty good. But point well taken.

Three 2022's played with them. 2 of them were dominant.

Dukes National brought 2022's to the 2023 bracket at Dicks in December?

Yep. The birthday cutoff was screwy and they took full advantage. The actual 2023 team is good, but isn't competitive with top tier teams.

Just to be clear. Dukes national is 1 year old. I'm sure it will grow and grow as people seek additional playing opportunitirs

Full disclosure, I'm an LI dad. I'm not sure about them getting better. 2023 is a very strong age group, from Mass to Maryland and beyond. PA has some great teams, Jersey has a few as well. Just a lot stronger than the 2022's and up (I have a 2023, 2022, and 2019). The problem with the model is that the Dukes are a supplemental team for most of these kids. The players all have parents that think that their little Rabils need to play more lax. Unfortunately, there's no continuity. There's no true allegiance to the program. It's a bunch of good players, absolutely, but the truly elite players won't do it because their teams are practicing and playing enough already. My son, for instance, wouldn't have time for it. I'm not saying he's elite, but he's very good and plays on one of the more competitive LI teams. Between his town and his club, he practices 4 days a week all winter. Even more when the weather breaks. That's already too much, in my opinion. If he was on a team that didn't practice in the fall or winter, or practiced minimally, then Dukes would definitely be an option. But most highly competitive teams have really increased practice time this year. The kids on those teams are not going to Dukes. Their coaches would not tolerate it. That just my opinion; I'm not saying I'm right or wrong or even that the team isn't good. They are good, my son's team has played them a few times. Close games but his team was able to pull out the win. It's got to be great for some people because they seem very happy with it. That's awesome and I wish you the very best!

Dukes South was just a year old and look how that turned out.