BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Westchester NY/Fairfield CT Youth Lacrosse

Primetime got one of the defenseman from Express North, I hear he's very good. PT doesn't seem to lose players, just kids getting cut as the holdbacks and larger kids move in.

What does Primetime offer that the other programs don't?

My son was fortunate enough to keep his spot on the 21 team. PT simply offers great coaching and Nick takes great care in running the club. My son loves it and as a parent I'm very happy with the organization. I honestly believe it sells itself. The kids get better - period.

They got one of the small attack from Eclipse, he was not one of their best and had a horrible year. He moved to PT because he wasn't going to start for Eclipse. Eclipse is only interested in winning, if you can't get it done you better find another team...so he did.

Lots of time to find an upgrade for your son between
now and summer 2017. It happens.

Apparently that defenseman was dropped from Express AA to A making it an easy decision. Many AA Express parents are dumbfounded by the move and believe a smaller and much weaker defenseman got the AA spot as a result of non stop lobbying by the father. There's always politics, that's life.

Can't blame the father, people in charge can always say NO and choose the better player. Coaches or whoever makes the decisions, not the father. Is the difference noticeable in the players?

K

FYI Hudson Valley Lacrosse is going to an age based system for this upcoming season. Obviously it doesn't address club teams, but it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully other organizations will do the same.

If the Westchester programs adhere to the HV email from yeaterday you might as well take the CONNY games off then schedule.

While definitely a step in the right direction, it really needs to be a country wide mandate.As long as club teams are the driving force in (early) recruiting, no Westchester teams would think of traveling to the main Mid-Atlantic recruiting events without reclassified kids in order to compete with similar teams there.
Again a nice first step that really only affects town teams and public school kids.

Recruiting tournaments couldn't care less about what's fair and obviously the college coaches don't either. They'd accept 20 year old Freshman all day long if they could. So, it falls on the youth programs and the governing bodies to protect the kids and ensure fair play. Oh, of course the pathetic parents are really those that are responsible for holdbacks. But teaching ethics to children really isn't the job of parents, just how to cheat your way to success.

I can't speak for youth Hockey, which would be most similar to lacrosse as far as early recruiting/prep school imvolvment, is it grade based or age based? But generally speaking in baseball & basketball, while there are reclassified kids playing, it is age based, and if you want to be 'noticed' or taken serious by D1 schools you have to play up 1-2 years. When did lacrosse go so off the rails that parents and players think playing down is the way to go? I get that it's the current system, and pretty soon most elite teams will be one re-classified team playing against another....not sure how that will play out in the future for the growth of the game among public school players.

If US Lacrosse fully implements their age-based criteria AND refuses to offer coverage to tournaments/leagues/games that don't adhere to that policy, then maybe the sport can move in the right direction. That said, the fact the current USL age verification process relied upon submitting a digital copy of the player's COB, the opportunity for falsified COBs is larger than it should be. USL should have put the onus of verification on the state affiliates to verify hard copy COBs w/ raised seals in order to have any level of confidence that they were achieving what is desired.

Just heard from a PT parent that PT 2021 also got a 2020 AA Express North midfielder who reclassified.

It actually looks like CONNY team segmentation will change for this spring also. Any player born before sept 1 of the "previous" year (assuming a Jan 1 bday grade cutoff) has to play up with the next older grade. No longer will programs be allowed to,play up an entire team (moving 5a up to u13, 7a up to u15) so that older kids stay with their "grade-mates". This gets voted on next week at CONNY board meeting, and at least one of the "big 3" CONNY programs (of which those three are the biggest culprits of the over-age players) is supporting the new rules. Looks like it will likely pass.

Love the new US Lax Boys Rules.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/blog/us-lacrosse-announces-new-boys-youth-rules

All programs can now try to figure out how to line their fields in multiple directions and pay for all different size goals. And wait for the playing time complaints when your playing 5 v 5,

And a 2020 PT Defenseman who also reclassified. 2021 is 9th grade, so it's not surprising and I'm sure there are a few more.

Although as proposed does not impact K-4th, will stay grade based. really only 5-7th impacted. For 8th they plan to move the date back to 3/1 but allow anyone who petitions that is older to play because if they are in 8th grade and older there is no where else to go. That is what CONNY is voting on.

And the irony is 8th & 9th grade is where the
age based system is needed most. A combination of reclassifying, 9th grade early recruiting, some kids maturing earlier than others, and parents 'gaming' the current system convinced that playing down an age is the way to go....

The difference between baseball/basketball and lacrosse is that there is nothing beyond college for lax players (nothing really compelling at least).

This motivates families to position their kids in the best way possible for their college careers.

One's views on this situation probably most closely align with the combination of aspirations and physical maturation of one's kid.

For example, those who can dominate by playing down but are 'just a guy' while playing at the 'correct' grade level and have aspirations to play at a competitive college level are incentivized to play down.

To me, playing down would be humiliating. Using the logic that 'everyone is doing it' would hold very little water. However for many others, humility is simply not something they possess.

Yup. On the CONNY site it says the proposal is to move 8th grade back to 3/2001. I hope that's a typo and they meant 3/2002 or you will have 16 year olds playing with 13 year olds!

It is 3/02, however, anyone older can petition to play and it is expected they will be allowed.

That is not correct. The CONNY proposal for 8th grade has a cutoff of 3/2001. If older than that, you can petition. If born in Mar/Apr 2001, players will be 16 during the Spring season. That is actually an appropriate age/birthdate for a 10th grader. Even allowing that is crazy, let alone being able to petition to play if the player is even older.

CT and holdbacks or overage kids are synonymous. I coach in N. Westchester
and we have always had problems with overage kids when playing CT teams. So, giving them the leeway to have 16 year olds play 8th graders is not surprising.

No, you are wrong. That is a typo its 3/2002. But again, anyone older than that can request to play and they are saying its most likely that they will be allowed.

OK, good to hear it is a typo. 3/2002 is still old, but a lot more reasonable.

The "2020" kid from Express North is actually a 2021 who always played up and is now playing on PT 2021 appropriately.

was he ever in the school as a 2020?

I've got a bridge for sale, great deal.

What about the Greenwich kids who reclassed and are now on PT 2021?
PT is making push to add more.

Um - no. 2021 is 8th grade!

yes as of now you are correct, but these were Summer tryouts for next year when the reclasses take effect. Our 2020 team went through it last year.

Anyone have some idea how many 2021 Primetime kids are now holdbacks/reclassed/overage? The adults in the room should be embarrassed. Exploiting kids for money, that's all it is. Funny thing is there doesn't seem to be a stigma attached to the kid who is "leftback". Maybe our overly politically correct society is to blame. Kids aren't shamed.

You are pathetic! Exploiting kids for money? Do you realize how many kids actually get money for college just for lacrosse?? Hardly anyone. AND...most private schools strongly encourage kids to repeat when going to their school for developmental purposes which has nothing to do with sports. Maybe you don't know how private schools work. Stop being jealous, if you kid isn't good enough to play with kids a year older then he probably just isn't good enough to get recruited or play at a high level, there are plenty of other teams for you. Go out and have fun. So tired of listening to all the whining about hold backs, re classed kids etc

Yep, I believe Hackley won't take a kid unless they repeat

Says the dad of the holdback who is shocked SHOCKED I TELL YOU! that people would have a philosophical issue with this. Wake up. Not one thing I have read here is anyone complaining that their kid got screwed b/c of a holdback. What they are frustrated with is that it is part of any discussion to begin with and that it is inherently becoming a game within the game.

Exactly my point. Club programs sell the dream of playing college ball to parents & kids and the kids suffer. What kid wants to be heldback? The system is pathetic and please have another martini with your lunch next time.

That my apply towards public school kids. My son went to a boys private, was at age and was accepted this year at Hackley. (He went elsewhere) It has more to do with writing skills not being taught strongly enough at the public school level. But yes there are plenty of repeaters at Hackley and most prep schools. And yes, not all repeaters are lacrosse players.

How is the 3D tristate program in the area?
Are they on the same level as ExNorth Predaters, and PT?

The stupidity of this statement is that we are talking about 8th/9th grade, when playing against kids 1-2 years older should not be the projection measurement for a kid "to be good enough" to play Varsity lacrosse let alone D1 recruitment. So if my son is just starting to mature in the 8th grade but yet is not good enough to play against 9/10th grade age kids, he might as well trade in his stick in for a squash racquet? Again, we're talking 8th/9th grade here, not a PG year in 12th grade. And my son goes to Avon, so yes I know how private schools work, and no he's not a repeat. Your grade based system basically says, you might as well give up competitive lacrosse or just play for fun, (which all kids should be doing anyway) if you're not good enough to compete with older kids by 9th grade? Nice way to grow the game.