BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Early Recruiting

Steve Spurrier once said "give me SOBs and I'll beat any group of VIPs"

If you're one of the blue blood programs it's time to toughen up, buttercups.

Who would you consider a "blue blood"?

At least his convicts had a chance at playing in the NFL. Pro lax is a beer league. Worry about churning out a high character kid and sending him to a school that is a good fit because in 4 years its OVER JOHNNY!

Never mind that, when is the ole ball coach coming to college lacrosse? Can't wait to see that. All kidding aside, lacrosse is no longer the sport it was. The tough kid with a linebacker mentality cannot succeed in today's lacrosse climate. The game has become a finesse sport, more like soccer than hockey. Almost all contact is flagged. Give me a bunch of fast kids with amazing stick skills who play as a team and not as individuals and I'll beat anyone as well. Tough sob's? sorry not in todays game.

Well, Yale & Brown had more tough character guys than the lax bro schools. I think you're trying to make a correlation which isn't there. Mentally tough is something many college lacrosse coaches seem unable to identify or evaluate.

We're at a point now where each guy on this year's Hopkins and UVA squads should be doing individual highlight videos to an AC/DC song to post on YouTube. It would be pretty sad, but also appropriate.

Agree that they are flagging almost all contact now but disagree about the tough SOB's. Yesterday's Towson Denver game proved it. Denver has fast kids with amazing stick skills. Towson has tough, grinding SOB's. Toughness isn't only about hitting. Towson played tenacious defense and battled their asses off for every ground ball. [lacrosse], I think they only won 2 faceoffs all day. That's my definition of toughness and Towson showed it.

Steve Spurrier was talking about players who could knock the snot out of someone. Therefore I assume the poster was referring to that. Don't think the original poster was referring to picking up ground balls, but I could be wrong.

Agreed. Also the number of talented kids, and the type of athlete that now plays the game, seems to have the greatest impact on parity.

All quiet on the early recruiting front...UNC and Marryland in final four and they are the earliest of the early...even Brown publically taking 9th graders...

then that must make it ok and validates the early recruiting model, right? Michigan and Ohio State are very early too, no?

Alabama just offered an 8th grader a spot on their football team. This will soon extend to all NCAA sports. Its coming, the coaches are playing for big money jobs. They could care less what a bunch of parents on BOTC think. We can complain, or accept that it's coming. Or, if you are that dead set against it, start a movement to get rid of it. Raise the money, hire the lobbyists, change the rules. But I think it's a very dead issue

Anyone know if the under armour all American underclass team is legit or a money grab?

Ive heard the tryouts are very well attended by college coaches. Not sure about the tournament but it seems to be pretty legit.

8th graders have gotten football offers for years now; that isn't the problem with lacrosse recruiting. That 8th grader (and the majority of football recruits) still won't have to decide/commit until senior year of college.

You don't HAVE to commit/decide early in lacrosse either. That is the choice of the student and the parent. Don't do it if you don't want to commit. Can't blame the coach for wanting to make his program better and keep his high paying job and supporting HIS family. There are things that are unethical in every business, from Wall Street on down/up, why is coaching any different?

So is Virginia...

Early recruiting really does seem to be a phenomenon that benefits no one at all, yet it really has destroyed the youth game all over the country.

isn't this the first year for the underclassmen?

and JHU?

Most of your early commits are doing so because that is what the parent wants. Most kids don't have a clue in 9th grade of where they want to go or would they rather play football or BB in college.Parents will feel less pressure from the other parents on their club team. My son has been approached and we are looking into the process but it's still early for him. I won't let my ego get in the way of my son. What makes a kid from LI pick Ohio State , Michigan or a Denver at this point. They loved the academic side of the school or how it looks in the fall or they like their football team. just crazy but everyone can make their own choice.

For our ER, it was a rather tough decision. I mean, what does a 14 year old 9th grader know if that is what he wants? Surely he wants to play in college. A D1 program was preferable to him. He was pretty advanced academically and displayed a rather independent nature early on so we were apprehensive but not nail biting. I think the thing that pushed us as a family over the edge was how fast the recruiting classes were filling up. Had to kind of sh*t or get off of the pot.

We made a deal with him. Chose the most academically rewarding institution that was interested in him and we would support his decision. True; kids are attracted to the big name schools with vibrant media coverage and larger than life college experiences, yet we were happy our kid decided to pursue the academic route and chose a very coveted spot in a great 8 school. That certainly put more pressure on him to want and need to achieve academically, but if the lax carrot is the key to a great school; then why not let him try and meet those requirements?

So.... ER is a challenge on many levels. If a kid gets sucked into the recruiting vortex; it's a parent's responsibility to help him cull out the best program for him that will enable him to pursue his dreams and become successful in life. Else; take lax out of the equation and let them make their way the old fashioned way on merit and grit. We were fortunate that our ER thus far has not been overwhelmed by the process or his decision.

Sounds good. I hope he gets the coveted likely to admit letter.

Trying to tie wins and losses from this season to ER is a tough sell. Parody is here because of the enhanced level of instruction and competitive exposure that is now available to kids from non-traditional areas due to club. ER has been going on for years, even when it supposedly wasn't. It just wasn't tweeted out every time a 9th or 10th grader verballed. They all do it, even Loyola BTW, despite the fact that their freshman attackman was a late recruit (and lets be real, he went to Boys Latin, so its not exactly a Cinderella story). Even if the NCAA makes wholesale changes, coaches will still find a way around it. So even in that scenario, young recruits will worry about "missing the train". The handful of coaches we spoke to all said they were against it but felt that they had to in order to be in the running for the top recruits. Most schools hold back a few spots as a hedge for late bloomers. But instead of discussing it philosophically, lets consider a real world scenario, put yourself in it:
-your 9th grade son/daughter is being recruited by XYZ University (which btw, your kid would probably not be admitted to without the sport)
-your club or school coach contacts you and gives you a number to call and try to speak to the coach.
-Your kid is very excited but you try to temper him/her by telling them to research the school and also realize that coach probably made a dozen calls after that tournament/event.
-your kid calls, speaks to a coach (eventually) several times and sets up a visit
-Your family visits, interviews, tours - the whole thing and tells you on the way home that he/she loves it. its the right fit (you think) and he loves the coaching staff, size of school, program, etc. He/She may even see the field some day!!!
-the school contacts your coach and says they really liked him/her and asks what your kid thought of their program
-you discuss the responsibilities and pressures of early committing to your kid but ultimately you tell him/her that they have to live with the decision.
-they want to commit (you're worried if its right but after all its X University)
-you set up a call/visit with the coach
-the call/visit happens and that's it - its done he/she is now verbally committed to X University class of 202?
So to all of the noble, sanctimonious posters out there I ask you - how would you have handled it?
a) tell your kid they are too young to make that decision and he/she should wait because you know better as their parent (ok, noble approach, but boy would I love to be a fly on the wall to hear that conversation if they loose the spot)
b) tell the coach "no, we have no idea that you will still be at X 3 years from now"
c) tell your kid that its too much to ask a 14/15 year old to stay strong academically, socially, and ethically for so long a period
d) have a heart to heart about how they are now responsible to something bigger than themselves, and need to maintain their academic and athletic strength and integrity because now its not only their mom and dad they will disappoint if they screw up but also the coach/program that had faith in them. But you support and will continue to support their decision and handle the next few years as a "team" to keep them on the right track (which we should be doing anyway of course)

Lets be real here, most will choose D

And before you respond that this is an example of why ER is bad because it puts kids under too much pressure, go back to my earlier comment. They will recruit early regardless of the "regulations". And its better to be on the inside looking out. How come nobody is complaining about all of these D1 "transfers" - what about that? so these kids are transferring because their original choice did not live up to their academic expectations - give me a break.

Yup, "Parody" is here, and the race to ER has turned the sport into a flat out joke.

Please look up 'parity' vs 'parody'

ok, well played with the inappropriate use of the terms. I appreciate that you took the time to actually read it, I will give you that. But you never said you would choose any of the above but D, despite this practice being so offensive to you. The overwhelming majority of the kids and parents, if given the choice would select D. And I suspect you would too. Even with your rapier wit. And that's being honest about the topic. And BTW I didn't defend the practice, I simply gave a scenario and asked people to be introspective and realistic. Were you actually in this position and told your kid to wait until 11th grade? Interesting to know the answer

Forget the early recruiting. What about a situation like Duke has. Listening I am almost positive the announcer said 23 yr old sophmore. That me when he is a senior he will be 25. 25 playing against 18 yr olds.

How does that happen.

Also early recruiting does not guarantee anything. Many factors can make that all go away. Like the coach changing his mind because another kid became available or has finally decided to commit. How about the coach moves on or fired (UVA). All his commits mean nothing. Who ever comes in and takes over can do what ever they want. Grades are not there.

There are a lot of 20 yr old freshman at many top lacrosse schools. Pathetic!

That's only a year above normal, most freshmen are 19 by the time the lacrosse season ends.

"only" huh. Do you find yourself using that term often!

I turned 19 and end of freshman year. A lot of these boys are turning 21 at end of freshman year. That's what I should of said before.

they said 21 year old sophomore. he's a kid who did a year of prep school , so whats the problem with the age?

At least he may have decided when he was 17 which college he wants to go to instead of the 14-15 year old who has no clue except for what Mom and Daddy say. I heard one kid picked Michigan because he was a Harbaugh fan and would love to watch him coach when he gets there.

. I heard one kid picked Michigan because he was a Harbaugh fan and would love to watch him coach when he gets there. [/quote]

Heck, my 17 year old D crossed a school off a list because she didn't like what the people in the area were like in a local Denny's. I have friends who have taken their kids on summer tours spent a ton taking kid around to look at colleges, some kids refused to even get out of the car at some schools. Come on. Picking a school because of the football team is NOT the worst reason, especially if its Michigan.

Not much critical thinking goes into a reason why a kid likes one over the other at 14,15,16 of 17.

That's a terrible rationale/explanation. PARENTS are responsible for establishing a family culture that makes sure their kids ultimately assess the potential colleges in a thoughtful way (whether as 9th, 10th, 11th graders, etc).

Reading a parent saying its reasonable for a kid to pick a school based on a football coach/team they can watch speaks to why the USA is falling behind ...

When the school is Michigan (or Stanford, or Notre Dame, whatever) then it doesn't really matter, does it? If he chose Florida State over Dartmouth "because of the football team" then you might have a point.

There will be more and more of these 20 and 21 year old freshman in college lacrosse .. The club world is grade base now and that along with ER has started an increase in holding your child back.
And with PG schools and Sports Schools, kids will be later and later arriving on campus. Sorta sad for a non money sport of lacrosse.

All you folks complaining about players ages, good thing your kids aren't college hockey players. Not uncommon for college players to be in their mid 20s after having spent a few years playing juniors in Canada. My son had a 23 year old freshman on his hall.

Well the then 17 y/o D who did not like the people in the surrounding area is now at an Ivy for grad school, sooooo, I don't think she made a poor choice for undergrad. They attend for a quick 4 years of their lives. If they attend the best academic school they can get into, why shouldn't they go where they will fit in academically and socially? Last I looked, U of M is not a "underperforming" school. Have you ever attended a football game at Notre Dame? Thanks to my irrational/silly 17 year old and her lack of parental input and poor choices, we got to go to several.
A kid has to want to attend a school, love the environment, not just for a spot on a lacrosse team.

The practice is only offensive to me when it rewards those who holdback their precious athletes.

I consider that group the scum of scum. The few on age kids that are lights out I can understand, they deserve the recognition and ER. The parents that claim to have a son on age, but he comes out of the pool with huge tufts of hair under the arms at a 5th grade summer tourney – I'll leave my thoughts about the parents to myself, but that kid shouldn't be recruited early. The owners of travel organizations that recommend your son come to a practice for the grade beneath so you can see more domination, but he is really testing the waters if you'd be willing to hold your son back and play at his private school – should no longer be on the planet to promote ER. He's the one of many destroying the sport. The few players that are decent but rely on the coattails of their older siblings playing D-I, or are the child of an alum, yeah, ER or first looks are inevitable, but please, leave your politics off the field. Good for you that you have the connection, wish we had it.


I know it's all in the game of ER, that's life, but I'm entitled to my opinions even though ER won't change. I come from a hard working-class family that despises hand outs, cheating the system and nepotism, especially by those who claim not to do it.

I've been introspective and realistic as you requested, but don't need to share more of our background other than – our family is lower middle class, non-ethnic, player is near perfect in the classroom, plays for a top team.

The answer your question:

If we got a call early on, it would have to be from an institution that is just out of reach of my child's academic ability, that also would be able to provide financial aid for a non-ethnic middle class family – because the lax 'book money'is not enough. (The university list has now been severely cut to only a handful of options)

The answer is D, but modified.

d) Take the offer. Have a heart to heart about how there is a responsibility to continue to do his best, including academic and athletic strength and integrity. How it turns out will be a lesson in life, it either works out or it doesn't, and that's okay. But we have the faith it will. We as parents will continue to do our best to guide and support him. Yes, the process will be a team effort by the family. Furthermore, I'd emphasize that it's your brain the gets you somewhere in life. Not playing lacrosse in college is not the end of the world. So, now let's give this our best shot!

I would NEVER mention anything about 'screwing up' and creating 'disappointment' as you suggest. It's always about striving to be the best one can be and that is what helps define character. That's all anyone can ask, and if one knows they did his best, it's easy to live with it should things not work out. After all, there's another few thousand recruits in line right behind him and others possibly transferring in from another program. He'll be forgotten by the coach within 24 hours.

And the facts remain, the chances for recruitment are close to zero (especially when you're not a 21 year old freshman coming out of private school with wealthy parents willing to donate to the school)

Looks like we're going to a state school and playing somewhere else as a graduate student!

Can anyone comment on Roster Size. It looks like many of these early recruiting programs are going to drastically increase their rosters. Schools that were in the 46 range may be going to 53-54. What are the implications of this. Are they going to be cutting kids? Or do they have a planned attrition.