BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) 2016 Women's College Lacrosse Season

you guys need to exhale. they will NEVER, EVER do anything to encourage shooting while a player without a helmet is in the way. Liability alone will make this completely impossible.

please grasp this. you might as well hope sasquatch starts showing up at the game. this aint basketball.

You must be kidding right? No matter how many capitals you use, woman are all ready taking these shots with absolutely no penalty to the shooter. If the Reffs are not calling dangerous shots as the defender moves into shooting space, than that shot should count. If the shot is dangerous than, as I said, it should be a 2 minute non releasable. If you want to take it further, if any player takes 2 dangerous shots in any game, it should be an automatic red card with a 1 game suspension. Your right "this aint basketball " because the powers that be that run basketball are smart enough to look at the game and enact rules that move the game along, keep it fan friendly, and keep the players safe, something that lacrosse can't seem to grasp

^^^ have you ever been to a NCAA women's BB game? Nobody there either except mom and dad

Its not a beauty competition moron and thank goodness because then your wife will still be able to play.

These are excellent points. As stated above here is the conundrum.
If shooting space is called and the player executes the shot then by definition it is a dangerous shot...goal or not.
The problem here is officials NEVER call that scenario a dangerous shot. They simply allow the shooter to take a free position and retake the shot (often times resulting in the same scenario happening again....crazy). In essence the wrong call each and every time.
Now here is the argument that I hear a lot. Because of the speed of the play and the timing of the officials whistle it is usually too late for the shooter to stop herself as the shot motion has already begun when the whistle blows.

My opinion is that the solution is quite simple and two fold.
1-the officials need to call shooting space/obstruction MUCH quicker and 2-the shooter needs to be held responsible for shooting during a shooting space situation.
If the shooter executes a shot AND the official calls shooting space then a yellow should be given and a change of possession should result.

Mature exchange.
You're kidding right?

Fit women make great laxers and there muscles are quite sexy

I agree with calling it quicker but you are taking to whole new level

Its about as mature as the guy going after young women because he does not like their physical appearance.

Don't disagree with Hop, if he gets mad at you he'll ban you

With the advent of the shot clock next season I think a whole new level is required. Simply put ... a shot taken when a shooting space is called is in fact a dangerous shot! I would love to hear an argument otherwise.

Love it..

I constantly remind refs (not to their liking), if a player enters the fan, shows to shoot the shot, the defender slides late but is a further than a stick away, ref calls the shooting space... all is good... I get it. but when/if the player then takes a step and shots after the whistle. it is a dangerous shot every time.

at a recent tournament a ref told me he had more hours on the field than I and the ref gets to determine if it is truly "dangerous" shot. I "nicely" said okay but you got that one wrong! Needless to say the slash to the head of our players didn't get called after that but the in the sphere against our players sure did.

If the call is made prior to the player initiating the shot then yes, that said there are times when the call is made too late for the shot to be stopped and in that case you cannot call a dangerous shot.

Well you actually can. See here is the thing that people don't seem to understand. It is on the SHOOTER not to take the shot if there is someone in the way. It doesn't matter whether shooting space is called or not. So whether the whistle is blown first or not has nothing to do with whether it was a dangerous shot.

A shame you had a negative dialogue with the official and that potentially resulting in some missed calls....

The Obstruction of Shooting space vs Dangerous Propelling/shot/Follow through being called simultaneously or as a continuation would result in offsetting fouls. Possession arrow would then determine whether a change in possession occurs.

Often times these are split second calls made by different "on field " officials who are responsible for different aspects of the game depending on whether they are a lead or trail official.

At the college level, the feeling is that the girls are stronger and thus have better control of their sticks. (With regards to checking-one handed play). They are more precise with their shot placement.

Ultimately there is that fine line between an early whistle, a goal with no whistle and a late whistle that results in a disallowed goal and a free position attempt. One team is usually unhappy depending on the call.

The safety of the players is the most important.

Coaches and Officials should meet to come up with more concrete rules. They have tried with the cross checks and we all see how "strictly enforced" that rule is (NOT!).

To quote Gary Gait, "the rules are gray, don't look for black and white answers".

can someone define what a "Good" shot is. I always thought you needed a clean lane to shot in. the only thing in the way was the goalie in the crease. (if out of the crease then shooting space) and the shot cant be shot.

I always thought you needed to beat your girl clean and have at least your hips clear her hips along with having control of the shot.

To many shots are not clear to the goal even if you have control of the shot. How about those BTB shots in girls arnt they pretty much fundamentally illegal

I was told by ref, girls can shoot if defended upon as long as it isn't a dangerous follow through.

I didn't think you could shoot through your defenders sphere. a ref told me that was legal as long as there was no follow through.

Help!

Again your reading comprehension is making it difficult . It was in response to a player shooting the ball after shooting space is called and if that should be an automatic dangerous shot penalty , which it should not.

Here is a great explanation and video regarding this issue.

http://www.uslacrosse.org/multimedi...r-shooting-space-in-womens-lacrosse.aspx

If the call is made prior to the player initiating the shot then yes, that said there are times when the call is made too late for the shot to be stopped and in that case you cannot call a dangerous shot.[/quote]

Well you actually can. See here is the thing that people don't seem to understand. It is on the SHOOTER not to take the shot if there is someone in the way. It doesn't matter whether shooting space is called or not. So whether the whistle is blown first or not has nothing to do with whether it was a dangerous shot. [/quote]

Again your reading comprehension is making it difficult . It was in response to a player shooting the ball after shooting space is called and if that should be an automatic dangerous shot penalty , which it should not. [/quote]

Maybe you can't write what you mean? Your quote: "that said there are times when the call is made too late for the shot to be stopped and in that case you cannot call a dangerous shot." --- your statement here is not correct, sorry. You absolutely can call a dangerous shot in that instance. So you want to take another shot at me or do you want to actually learn something?

So being the original poster, I will state again, after watching the Video, if a woman is caught in free shooting space but is not in a dangerous shot situation, penalizing the offense for a defensive mistake remains the worst call in any sport I do not care how many capitals you use. If the call gets made the flag should be hung until after the scoring play ends. If a goal is scored than it should stand. If it is saved or missed than an 8 meter should be awarded. Lacrosse has always been a sport ruled by a lot of perception and common sense so all the players, refs and fans know the difference between obstruction and a dangerous shot. Keep the obstruction rule because it's needed, but refine it. Only 3 woman per team between restraining lines during draw. Five major/ minor fouls per game each player then they sit. And for crying out loud if a red card is warranted use it, I have seen some pretty deserving plays, but for some reason the refs are afraid to use them

Thanks for this. Years of watching girls' lax and this always confused me and many others in the stands. Maybe you should post this link in its own thread so the younger player crowd can see it.

After watching this and with an understanding of the rule prior to this, I still say its only called correctly 50% in LI HS games. And when it is called, it decides games.

Well you actually can. See here is the thing that people don't seem to understand. It is on the SHOOTER not to take the shot if there is someone in the way. It doesn't matter whether shooting space is called or not. So whether the whistle is blown first or not has nothing to do with whether it was a dangerous shot. [/quote]

Again your reading comprehension is making it difficult . It was in response to a player shooting the ball after shooting space is called and if that should be an automatic dangerous shot penalty , which it should not. [/quote]

Maybe you can't write what you mean? Your quote: "that said there are times when the call is made too late for the shot to be stopped and in that case you cannot call a dangerous shot." --- your statement here is not correct, sorry. You absolutely can call a dangerous shot in that instance. So you want to take another shot at me or do you want to actually learn something? [/quote]

Again you prove to have a reading comprehension issue, yes you can call a dangerous shot but its not an automatic call. What you seem to fail to understand is this is in regard to whether a dangerous shot is an automatic call when a ref has called shooting space and a shot gets taken. Try to keep up .Thanks for telling us what "people" don't understand when in fact you are clueless.

Very sad women's lacrosse getting very little playoff play anywhere in the media

women's sports--professional or college--get no play in media...just a fact of life...Maury Povich gets better ratings

The author of the article acknowledges that “more often than not... the whistle [for obstruction of free space] blows while the shot is in the air.” If that’s the case, does blowing the whistle really reduce a defender’s risk of injury to any meaningful extent? Wouldn’t it improve the game, without significant risk to the safety of defenders, to have the officials hold their whistle, to encourage them to call dangerous propelling if a shot is taken when a defender is obstructing the free space to goal, and to allow a goal to count if the shot is taken when the defender is no longer obstructing the free space to goal?

You can't justify putting it on television when no one watches. If you watched the games online, you saw that very few of these games had a lot of fans there. The Stanford- James Madison game had about 50 people watching in that gigantic stadium. I enjoy watching the girls game more than the boys but I'm the minority. Only the final four draws fans and that's a shame.

Same thing with Syracuse. Playing a game in the Carrier Dome, even with 200 fans, is an empty feeling. I've seen regular season games with less than 50 people at The Dome. It's like playing in a cave.

We are all passionate about the sport but it is a niche sport. ESPN3 or ESPNU will stream the games but even the production values, and announcers, are fourth rate. For 99.9% of the student-athletes this is game they finish after graduating. Use the sport as a tool to get your student into the best academic situation; it's certainly not a career.

Syracuse was outclassed and played a dirty game ! That starts w the coaches. I also have to say the way Cathy Reese acted at the end and reading her lips after they scored the late goal was classless!! Also remember a few weeks ago people bragging how Cathy pulls players out when games are "won". Whittle took 5 shots in last 2 minutes up 10. Terrible behavior by both coaches

Went to both games yesterday , did anyone else feel like the officials tend to heavily favor one team over the other in both games . In the UNC -Penn State game it seemed to me they were clearly favoring Penn State. Cuse-Maryland they clearly favored MD . Anyone else feel that way ??

I would be pissed too. Gary's girls wanted to change the orange to yellow. The same way he ended his season the last three years, yellow card row. As for the Syracuse fans in College Park last year. As I said after the win in Syracuse in March. How is the cooking in Philly??? Hope you enjoyed dinner. Have you had enough yet? Syracuse has a good team until they don't get their way. The constant yellow cards once they realize they are going to lose and their fans makes Syracuse easy to root against.

Why do we see 100 check in Sphere? But not one cradling in sphere? They need to make it a piont of emphasis quickly and call it. Players are being taught this as it is never called. The last three years point of emphasis have been against defense. It is time to start calling this. If the stick is on a uncheck able position for 1 second it is turnover. It can pass through the sphere, it can't remain only. The reason for so many checks in sphere is because that is where the stick is being kept.

A emphasis on the sphere rule, make off sides a yellow and shot clock would be three big improvements to this game that just need to be enforced by refs.

I watched and I agree, Syracuse did not lose with class, definitely some very hard fouls towards the end.. But I'm sure the late scoring was a response to that.. As far as what Reece was caught saying.. She had her hand up toward her mouth to cover it and was said to an assistant.. Come on what is she supposed to be a saint...

And if they stall everyone complains about that. Time to put your big girl pants on. These are grown women ( although with all of the Syracuse whining you would never know) Has anyone ever seen more players complaining about calls sheesh!

We can all agree that officiating women's lacrosse is an extremely difficult task. With that said my biggest pet peeve is the "dive" or the drama filled "head grab". Girls are taught by some coaches to do these things and because officials have so much to look at its difficult to distinguish the real foul from the "dive".
I would love to see attention paid to this embellishment with some action against the player similar to hockey where the player can be given a penalty for diving or in this case dropping to the ground as if shot when no one touches them or hardly makes contact.
There was a lot of "diving" during the SU v MD and the UNC v PSU game for sure.

I am one of the rare adults that actually had the pleasure to play lacrosse when I was younger, and I remember being thrilled to see 50 people in the stands to watch us play. That being said, I blame the parents at the younger levels for the slow growth of woman's lax. They are the most obnoxious, selfish fans in any sport. Don't dare not agree with them because they will shame you by calling you a pedophile, or a loser for watching a girls game when they don't have a daughter involved. Not exactly the most welcoming atmosphere. Either that or they're loudly bragging about there kid or screaming like an idiot for them to " go to goal" every time there kid gets a touch. Unbearable! So please don't come on here upset no one goes to games, make it a better place. That and the rules need to be fixed and the refs need to be better.

Actually women's lacrosse is the fastest growing sport in the US for the past several years as verified by the NCAA.
As for the culture it is quite good with exemptions of course as is with any sport. Women's lacrosse attendance at the final four is great and playoff games and top regular season games are all well attended. HS games here on LI have good attendance numbers as well for the better programs.
If you played lacrosse and enjoy the game then by all means you should attend.
Don't pay attention to the loud mouths just as if you wouldn't if you went to any other sporting event such as football, soccer or baseball. Trust me the mouths attend those events as well!!!!

What exactly was said by reese?

Agree the late goal was probably in response to the hard fouls at the end. But someone has to step up and be a class act. No one did here. Sad to see.