BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums LACROSSE LIBRARY RULES & REGULATIONS NCAA Face Off Rule Changes

See below, please sign the petition. Every little bit can help..


http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/face-off-men-unite.html

From my sons coach........

I know many of you are extremely concerned at the recent ridiculous decisions made by the NCAA rules committee to experiment with face off rule changes this fall. I am confident that these experiments will not go forward after the fall, however I think it is extremely important that all of you email (jhind@hamilton.edu – chairman of the NCAA lacrosse rules committee) and or call
Jon Hind- 315-859-4116 and let him know your thoughts on the situation. As I am sure u can imagine these rule changes will essentially eliminate all the hard work and dedication and money that you have invested in your sons dream to become an elite college face off athlete. I implore you to email Mr Hind and let him know how hard your son has worked, the hours he has spent working on his skill, the early morning winter sessions. Mr Hind is quoted-as saying these rules and changes are to be implemented for safety and fairness??? Over 85% of college face off guys are using the moto grip? How is that not fair? Regular grip face off athletes are more prone to grabbing the opponents sticks because their fingers are facing up, making it easier to grab the stick. When was anyone hurt in the face off for using motor cycle grip? Increasing the width of the sticks at the X will only increase the chance of high impact collisions as the athletes will no longer be able to control where the ball is going. All we are going to end up with is two long poles in the middle standing up and destroying each other.
Currently the face off position is about skill and speed, it is the one position in the game where a 5’8 kid can compete against a 6’2 kid. If these rules are implemented it will be all about size and strength and collisions.
Let this committee know how important these rule changes are to your son’s career. If these rules go thru everything you have worked for is now obsolete. Let’s make sure this doesn’t happen.

I agree, there is no need to change the faceoff. It is a position of skill and hard work, like all other postions if you choose to practice you will get better. To disallow the motorcycle grip and say its for fairness is crazy, why is this fair? Then to say its to prevent injury without any statistics is laughable. All of the work all faceoff players put in should considered, hopefully someone will put a stop to this!

doing away with the motorcycle grip is a good thing in my opinion. i agree that the face-off middie can grab his opponents stick but it also gives the player the opportunity to grab the ball with their hand and throw it behind them. i do disagree with spreading the sticks apart 12 inches. they shud just do away with the motorcycle grip and keep the players 4 inches apart. i also like the rule that if one team has more than 2 face off violations ( moving before the whistle) they will serve a 30 second penalty. the face off middies try to time the refs cadence and they hold up the game by going early . keep in mind the rule changes are made to try and speed the game up. i like the thought of the shot clock when a stall warning is given but it shudnt be up to the officials to monitor it. you can have someone in the box keep the time on the shot clock and just use the horn when time expires. then the refs will know when to exchange possession. this is possible because the ncaa is trying to speed up the game by extending the box from 10 yards to 20 yards and having substitutions on the fly ,basically eliminating the regular substitution where a horn will no longer be needed.

To say you should do away with the moto grip because you can grab the ball is like saying attack men cant use under over grip because they can thumb the ball to hold possession (yes some do this). There are rules in place to penalize a player if he grabs the ball. The refs need to call it. At the higher levels you dont see Faceoff middies grab the ball because the refs will call it, and they can penalize a team for it. Keep in mind that over 80% of all faceoff middies in the NCAA use a moto grip what do propose they do start over. Think about an attack man having to start over with a new grip he wouldnt be to happy or successful. Take some time and watch a accomplished faceoff middie and you will be impressed there is a lot of stick skill and speed involved. Keep in mind it takes YEARS of practice that you are talking about wiping away. Leave the rules alone and call the game the way it should be called.

well its funny, i do call the game the way i see it. i do see plenty of face-off middies using their hand to free the ball and gain possession. although legal, the motorcycle grip became popular in the last 7 yrs. doing away with it will only provide for an equal opportunity to gain possession the players will adjust just like they have in the past and the game will become better because of it.

If you were to see them use their hands and call it they would not get possession. It would be a turn over and the other other team would have the ball. If this happens enough one of two things would happen, 1) the player would stop using his hands or 2) the coach would stop sending that player out for faceoff. Either way problem solved. I have heard refs tell faceoff middies if they are seen using their hands a second time they would receive a unsportsmanlike conduct penalty, further hurting their team. Im not even sure if thats allowed but it seemed to work. Can you say with the games you have officiated in you have not seen tradition grip faceoff kids use hands? As previously said If its seen it should be called and it will stop. We can not think because a player uses a moto grip he is going to cheat, just like we cant say attackmen are going to thumb the ball unless we see it

US Lacrosse Responds to the NCAA's Proposed Rule Changes

BALTIMORE, Aug. 22, 2012 – In response to the NCAA's proposed rule changes for the 2013 men's lacrosse season, the US Lacrosse men's game safety education subcommittee yesterday provided comments to the NCAA men's lacrosse rules committee centered around the topic of player safety.

Angelo Calvello, chair of the US Lacrosse men's game safety education subcommittee, authored a letter that communicated recommendations involving the proposed rule changes for faceoffs and restarts.

Among the highlights, US Lacrosse requested the NCAA rescind proposals that move faceoff players to 12 inches apart and that outlaw the motorcycle grip.

"Increasing the distance allows for more force to be generated prior to any contact between the two players, thus increasing the energy exchanged at impact and increasing the likelihood of injuries to the head, neck, and shoulder," Calvello wrote in the letter.

"From a physiological perspective, the motorcycle grip seems to place less stress on the joints in the right arm, especially when the arm is under force ... From a safety perspective, we can find no reason to prohibit the motorcycle grip," Calvello added.

While the move to quicker restarts was supported, the letter advised the NCAA of the potential for injuries to midfielders or defensemen who have stepped into a crease vacated by the goalie.

"These players lack the proper safety equipment required for goalies...placing them at risk of injury ... we would recommend that the Committee develop a formal protocol for discouraging players from placing themselves in such a potentially injurious position," Calvello wrote.

US Lacrosse authors age-appropriate playing rules for youth lacrosse and is represented on the National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) boys' lacrosse rules committee. To learn more, visit www.uslacrosse.org/TopNav2Right/Rule/MensRules.aspx.

I was very surprised to see Casey Powell in Inside Lacrosse this month call for the end of face offs after goals. "I think they should face off at the beginning of each quarter and that's it. The fact that the ball gets stuck in the back of their stick is ridiculous. I think that should be illegal."

I can't say I disagree after seeing some really 1 dimensional players impacting a game greatly when they are only on the field 5 seconds at a time,

Somehow they need to make it more of a 50-50 contest or just give the ball to the team that was scored on.

I saw an indoor league with fast restarts where the goalie goes right into a clear after being scored on. It worked great. The game was a lot faster.

I would love to see the fast restart after a goal and completely agree that players that play a total of 5 minutes for the game shouldn't have such a big impact on the game as they do now.

This change along with a shot clock would greatly help the college game.

I agree, time to get rid of face off

Just have the face-off guys further apart.

It's really insane that because of 1 guy that barely steps on the field a team can keep possession for an entire game. A change would improve the game and possibly elevate it to the next level.

Exactly, get rid of it

You are simply not correct. the face off is an integral part of the game requiring strong players and strategy. It is exciting and keeps the game fresh for all. The only people that complain about it are the ones that can't seem to win a face off and have a poor defense...

Whether you like it or not, lax is now a specialized contest. You have middies that only play one way, long poles that only play one position, a group specifically assigned for man up and man down, and FOGO that plays d middie in the event he losses the draw.

You want to take the game backwards and claim it is not fair for one player to impact a game? Really, everyone wants to be the player that impacts the game. So if a goalie is too good and you never score what would be done with the rules? If an attackman is just too good and can't be covered, what should the rules do about that too make competition more fair? should the Thompsons not be aloud to shoot from behind their backs because it gives them an unfair advantage?

FOGO position is here to stay based upon the last few years of college contests. You put your best on the field and I will put my best, let's see who wins, not complain because my fogo is better than yours. Perhaps the long pole wing man can do a better job...

If the FOGO is so bad at actual lax, the long pole should be able to take the rock every time...

First of all, it is a lost possession if the ball gets stuck in the stick...

Second, if there are 15 face offs in a game, and each one last less than 10 seconds, that is 2.5 minutes of game time associated with a face off...If you were to simply give the ball to the scored upon team, they would have 20 seconds to cross midfield and then 10 more to get in the box (this would bring stalling to a new level) so eliminating that aspect will not make the game faster but will actually make it slower with teams spending twice as much time riding after each goal. eliminating face off will create a slower game with more turnovers.

I completely agree with shot clock, once a team has possession, they have 30 seconds to put a shot on the cage. that will make the game faster....

If you just have each of the face-off players have their sticks at least the width of the head away from the ball, they would no longer be able to turn the head of the stick over the ball and pinch the ball.

I have also heard people saying the ncaa may disallow running with the ball if held with the back of the stick.

It may be easier to make them face off with girls sticks.

I disagree about the slowing down aspect, if ball is awarded to team that just gave up goal, then the team that just had the ball will have all shorties at midfield still on field, the goalie will get the ball up field immediately to try for a break or at very least keep other team from subbing for a LSM. This also eliminates the time that the refs take to get ball to faceoff x and teams making subs. Constant motion.

With the O starting to ride right away after they score, a quick restart eliminates the overblown celebrations and taunting. Another plus.

So i f you are down two with less the minute and score your screwed. How many comebacks have been built around winning face offs ? Its not broke, don't fix it

Seems as though more than a few people do think it is broken and limiting the game from advancing to the next level.

There will always be pros and cons but in this case replacing the face off with a fast restart will have more positives than negatives for the game.

just saw this thread and very interested. I agree with those that think the faceoff should NOT be eliminated. In my opinion it is one of the most exciting aspects of the sport. I think a few modifications ie: move the sticks 8" apart, (4 on each side)if the ball is in the back of the stick you must release the ball within 3 seconds, no checks allowed to the faceoff men's sticks by the wing players. Just the 2 face off guys digging it out. Good faceoff guys help make the team better and that's what the sport is about. Those guys practice their craft and work hard at it. Maybe add something like no subs may enter the game for either team until the next whistle occurs after the faceoff.

I can tell you one thing for sure, no kid should be a face off specialist before HS. If the rule changes and that is all a kid can do, they could be out of luck.

Interesting idea, but still slows the game down. Every other player is "practicing their craft", these guys just need to re shift their focus

Go ahead and get rid of one of the most exciting parts of the game. That should help the sport grow! It works great the way it is now. Keeps the game fresh and fun for spectators. I don't agree with moving sticks apart because that will lead to more player injury due to jamming. Less skill involved. I also disagree with a previous poster's suggestion limiting the time a player can keep the ball in the back of the stick. The current rule works great, one chance to pop it out. What is the difference if the ball is in the front or back of the stick?

I agree that changes need to be made. The fact that the ball gets STUCK in the back of the stick is ridiculous. Also a guy that is on the field for a minute or 2 a game should not have such a big impact.

At the very least I like the idea of no allowing the face off man to sub until the next whistle so he has to actually play the sport of lacrosse.

Faceoff rule needs to be changed. This one aspect of the game has a disproportionate impact on the game when you have a strong FOGO or two. You can even the playing field by eliminating the ability to carry the ball on the back of the stick (that makes no sense whatsoever), or having it be more of a true ground ball situation, where there is absolutely no withholding allowed. Lacrosse is a game of possessions, and for one team to have the ball materially longer than the other team purely due to one discreet portion of the game doesn't make sense. Prior to the pinch and pop, faceoffs were still important but there were lots of ways to mitigate the impact of a good fogo. There is no other sport in which a restart after one teams scores has such an impact on the outcome of the game.

The problem is in a game of possession this one position can control the whole game. AT the younger level the last thing I would want is t be on a team with a real good face off man. You will never see any action during the game and won't get any better.

That's not true! A team is so much more than the F/O. I have seen many games (youth and HS) where almost all F/O's have been won, but the team still loses, many times badly! It is one thing to win the F/O, you then have to keep the ball. A good team will force turnovers and get the ball back without missing a beat. Sure it is an advantage, but not always as big a difference as you think when your whole team is strong!

Every sport has become more specialized, pinch hitters, relief pitchers, short yardage backs and the like. Maybe a tweak to the rules would help but.

If you ever did the stats I am sure its well over 75% for the team that wins the faceoff.

Not sure about that, nevertheless, F/Os are an important and exciting aspect of the game. There are many excellent FOGOs. Competitive teams should not have a problem finding/traing one if they really care about that position. Just like they do for goalie.

Every sport is specialized, that is due to the growth of the sport. F/O have become and exciting important part of the game. Someone said should one player on the field for two or three minutes have such and impact? Did you ever see football? Sixty minute game and almost half of the games each year (proven) come down to a guy who can't tackle, can't catch, can't throw, can't block and is slow...Can you guess the position???

Keeping the game exciting is what will grow the sport. Creating more skilled positions will grow the sport, limiting the impacts of skilled position players is a natural progression. It happens now. LSM? DM? OM?

Maybe we should eliminate the goaile and just have a really small hole in the center of the net, then we can be basketball with pads...

Come on folks, the only people that don't like the FOGO positions are the college teams that haven't found the right kid for the role and lost a national championship because of their failure to have forecast the value of having a great kid play fogo. Did I hear someone say Syracuse...

I couldn't disagree more. people want fast paced action. That is why the shot clock was brought in. and more will be done to speed up the game. The face off needs to be changed and it wil. within the next few years it will change completely

Don't count on it!

We will see but I wouldn't be bringing my kid up to be one dimensional. Have him enjoy the game because when it's not there anymore your other skills need to surface

It takes longer to pull the ball out of the goal, get your FOGO unit on the field and have the refs set up the face off and walk back to midfield than an immediate restart. There are ways to keep the face off relevant, but in a game where you need to dislodge the ball from another player's stick, and the players are very skilled at keeping possession of the ball, it becomes unfair to have such a small part of the game impact the outcome so heavily. I'd love to see the stat of wins vs. losses at the top tier schools when they have a dominant face off winning percentage. I've personally been on the winning and losing sides of the face off game and when our guy completely dominates the other team's face off guy it gets a little awkward.

So if you're down three and cut it to two with 2 minutes left but lose every face off, you have no chance of coming back either...you make a good point but i think the solution is to make the face off more equitable - they need to figure out how to make it a true ground ball situation, which unfortunately means taking some of the technique out of the process.

Why? Kids work hard on their technique. Just because some are better than others does not mean everything needs to be changed. Fact is, spectators love to watch the faceoff. Get rid of that and you've got soccer. If you want to keep an exciting part of the game, you leave it alone.