BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Conflicts! When HS Coaches Incorporate Summer Tournament Teams in Town

In the last few years there has been a disturbing trend as HS coaches try and cash in on the for profit (or questionable non for profit) summer tournament teams. It started when some business minded coaches started open tryout teams, now the trend is HS coaches charging big fee's for summer teams that draw exclusively from there own school districts. How do public schools allow this type of quid pro quo to occur? Its one thing when you pay for a summer program and also pay to attend a private school which shares the same coach. Now it seems you have to pay the head coach of the public school boys/ girls teams to get on the field. The Conflicts of interest seem to run so deep yet it continues. Which program is the coach incentified to develop? The School district program or the one that pays him cash on top of their salary? How do they not play undeserving kids that have been paying them every summer? Are kids punished if they play for a competing club? This seams to be a hot topic issue in the towns these teams exist, i am interested to hear others experiences.

very interesting and insightful with any valid points. I know of HS coaches who have told players that if they play on certain travel teams they will never see the field. This lax world is crazy

My town has 2 high schools and one just formed a "travel team" last year. You are correct- one of the coaches has a tiny 9th grade kid that made varsity this year (even though he was rocked the few minutes he saw the field). There were a handful of better 9th grade kids that were clearly more qualified to make varsity but didnt. Politics at its best. I agree that its a huge conflict of interest but its been happening in our baseball travel program for years as well. Pay to play in off season.

Where have you been?? This has been going on for years - YJ's has it down to a science, CGI baseball, aau basketball. It's called pay to play. Try living in Northport and playing girls lax for liberty or top guns and see what happens. You're 100% correct none of these school coaches should be allowed to gauge their students in the summer travel circuuit, but that's just the way it is and has been for a long time.

what about a HS coach that wants his kids to play together in the summer to make the school team better and does it foe expense money? these school teams seem to be less money then the for profit teams and the HS team is the real benefactor, if done properly this could be a great trend

This subject was beat to death on the YJ thread. And your right, it is a crime that it is allowed to happen, huge conflict of intrests. I don't however think its against rules as they are now written. Someone should get on that!

couldn't agree more when done properly to cover costs its a great idea. How does the school district or even the state for that matter allow coaches to make a profit off these kids by playing on the parents fears.

does YJ just draw from one town or is it an open tryout? seeing current HS coaches pressure kids to play with the town during the summer then charging them as if they are these open tryout teams is insane. and if you don't play for them? what happens then.

The HS coaches use these plattforms to make money as well. Don't be fooled!!

It should not be allowed.

No, this club is massive. Pretty much every town team or school district team you can find some or many players that are on some sort of YJ team. But that's not where the problem is, the problem is the reverse. Again since it is such a massive club, they have massive amounts of coaches, many of whom are coaches for school teams. And the YJ's are not the only club with coaches guilty of this. You can say and think what you want about this, but there is no question it puts kids in very awkward situations (kids playing for other clubs). The most obvious case is to cite Northport, but it goes way beyond that. I actually like the idea of a school team forming a travel team to go play the summer tournaments with the school coach. It would make for some tough tournaments and there is no way the school team would pry away the top players from commitments to the summer club teams. It's near immpossible to put together a highly competitive team drawing from one town, so the model may work for strengthening a school program but will never yeild a competitive tournament team. What I would like to see come out of this is that the school districts prohibit coaches from "paid" involvement of any kind in the sport in which they are hired to coach.

I have stated this before on other threads, but I think it's worth repeating. My daughter plays for St John The Baptist, and the coach is involved with the L.I. Wave (in case you don't know girls they are second rate and non competitive) this woman treats all other club members poorly, berating them for every little mistake and screaming at them, while her club players are spoken to and treated with kid gloves. It is a very toxic situation if you don't play for the wave. I called the school administration and they did nothing siting it's at the coaches discretion. What makes this worse is I pay $8,000.00 a year for this.

I understand the YJ is a very competitive club like the Express on the boys side. I guess you can say what you want but they both field strong teams and offer a good product. What happens when the town team is not competitive and the pressure is there to stay? How and where do you challenge the best kids if they are stuck on a poor town team for summer and parents are getting charged like its a top level club? In philly the town summer teams rarely charge much over costs unlike the open tryout club teams

Have a hidden recorder and get it on record that if your son doesn't play for the school or town summer travel he will not see the field , then sue the school and the coach. It's getting out of hand. Happening in a lot of towns

That's attacking the problem from the bottom, better off attacking it from the top. Voice concerns and compllaints to sextion XI and get them to make this against the rules. Anyone can see the conflict of intrest here, if someone has the time and interest to persue it, I'm sure it would have an impact.

"The coach is involved with the L.I. Wave (in case you don't know girls they are second rate and non competitive)"

I have no idea of the situation at that school but to say the wave players are second rate and non-competitive obviously is coming from someone who does not know the program or the girls very well

I think half the problem is that the expectation of kids playing on certain teams "or else" is implicit. Maybe I'm wrong, and tell me if I am, but are coaches outright telling kids/parents that if they don't play on X team then they won't see playing time on the school team?

It's hard to attack something deniable. That just turns into he said/she said, with the coach claiming that Y kid doesn't play because he's/she's not as good as the player on the coach's club team.

The wave plays in b divisions. They are well known as a place for girls who can not make other clubs.

Unfortunately , I like the other parent know the Wave all too well . We pay big money to play with there players and coach and lost to teams we should have beat.

"The wave plays in B divisions. they are well known as a place for girls who can not make other clubs".I hope this quote is not from an adult

There is a clear conflict of interest and it is shameful that we allow it to happen.

Why is it not true?

That fact that can even be a discussion about the motive tells you it is an improper situation. It puts the kids in a very uncomfortable position. I have seen similar situations in soccer where the school AD allowed school coach to coach/train for $ on the outside, but was prohbited training and coaching kids from that district. That was one districts solution to a bad problem. Maybe each AD should take a look at this as a solution, although I feel it should be enforced on an even higher level.

I give credit for that AD on taking a stand. Most of these Coaches are well entrenched within the district and most AD and school administrators turn a blind eye to the situation. what is the higher level? local section as mentioned earlier or state.

This instance was brought about internally where other coaches looking to get in or replace coach were squaking to the AD. It was an easy agreement between that coach and AD because the teams and players he was working with were from other towns anyway. So it was more of a don't take any from the school district, so it wasn't any really big stand by the AD. But at least it proves the point that this type of cross relationship is in conflict.

How can it be stopped?

Global Thermonuclear War

It can't, none of the powers that be have any interest in stopping it!

What's worse is when a High School coach runs a camp and 7th grade kids who attend the camp are brought up to the 8th grade team over kids who didn't attend the camp even though they're better. Further, kids are brought up to JV based on being "evaluated" at camp, and kids who don't attend the for profit camp who are the better kids are black balled. This goes on in Syosset with the boys, Varsity coach makes big money on his camp and then runs a summer team for the high school and does it through his business, not the booster club and makes close to $15,000 off the kids. It's really gross!!

part with the benjamins if you want your "better" kid to see the field. and after paying for camp and travel dont forget to make a "donation" to the booster club.

its the same game in every town. at least your town has a good program.

False, you need to check your facts, or bitterness

No 7th grader to date has played 8th grade
Several 8th graders have moved to JVA, some of these players have never attended the camp. Check roster for spring 2012
Varsity summer team has a separate fee payed by players for summer.
Camp is a business and open to many towns, yes it makes a profit.

I am not taking sides in this debate as I understand both sides but you can't go on here and post bombs and not get called on it. Syo has many many 7th graders that play up on 8th grade, I do not know about last year but the year before almost half the 8th grade team at SWMS were 7th graders. Maybe some of the kids that get moved up also happened go to this camp but were also better then other kids. this program has a long history of moving up kids at all grade levels and this was going on before the HC was even there and also before the camp go started. don't be hating because the staff doesn't think your kid has developed or matured enough to play up just tell your kid to work harder and his time will come. SYO has a kid starting at an Ivy who played 8th in 8th. JVB in 9th, JVA in 10th and made All American in 12th while another kid in the same grade got moved up to JVA in 9th and did not even play his senior year. Oliver Stone is not making a movie about the Syo lacrosse program, not every decision is a conspiracy sometimes kids just get moved up, maybe to fill a void on the older team or maybe he is just physically more mature. Syo girls consistently have 9th graders starting on varsity and the HC does not run a camp or a Summer team.

this is no different than parents taking their kids to YJ directors camps in the summer in hopes of currying favor on their YJ teams.

Fill the coaches pockets with "camp money" and then you move up in the team batting order.

Its FOR PROFIT PEOPLE!

Huge difference - YJ is a choice, particularly if you do not go to NP. A public school coach running a team exclusively for the town kids and putting pressure on the kids to only play with the town summer team that he or she is making a profit on is not the same as a kid paying to go to YJ camp to help the chances of getting on a better YJ team.

Just to clarify one thing, Kids are NOT moved up to JV when in 8th grade because they attended the Syosset HS coach's camp! This past year, not one kid that was moved up from 8th grade to JV, attended the camp. Many High School coaches across Long Island coach their own HS team during the summer and hold camps. Look at Wading River. Their coach has been coaching their HS team during the summer and has been holding camps for years. Look where they ended up! Playing in the State Championship. Why shouldn't HS coaches be any different then those who start or coach select teams for a fee. I believe this year the Express is charging $1500 for what? If you are not on their top team, you are just money to them. Personally, I feel select teams do nothing but hurt HS teams. Players tend to become individual players instead of team players. Why...because they think College coaches are watching. This carries over to the regular HS season. Want to be recruited by a college coach? Contact the Coach, send a clip of yourself playing AND tell the coaches where and when you are playing. 100s of college coaches come watch the County Finals. That's where you can prove yourself!

YELLOW JACKETS...its not just a club ...its a lifestyle !

Mom - I think you might be missing the point, most would agree that keeping the high school team together is advantageous to the program but forcing kids (either directly or implied) to play on a for profit team owned by the coach and feeling that there are ramifications to not playing could be seen by some as a conflict of interest. interesting that you bring up express, please tell us if our kid is on fl$ is that OK with you? or express orange is OK but not express blue?

A summer travel team is just a lot more FUN then the pressure of playing for your varsity coach all summer. playing with kids from your rival towns, or kids that you played PAL with that are now going to parochial schools or playing games against your friends and current HS teammates, getting a different set of eyes on you and hearing a different coach's voice. this all adds to the entire "travel" experience. It is a little crazy that the only reason we are all doing this is the scholarship and entrance into the Ivy League school at some point it has to be fun or it eventually becomes a job for these kids.

The towns that your are probably thinking of run their summer programs through their booster club, the price is enough to pay for tournaments, pay the coaches appropriately for coaching, and a summer uniform. NOT charging close to $900 and collecting through a private business and pressuring kids to play so the profit goes up! Most towns run their camp through the youth league,NOT Syosset, HC makes big money, town, booster club, sees nothing!

Momlax - i don't really think that a HS coach should profit off the kids, but I'm reading this because it's interesting to see people try to defend it, pretty pathetic. But what I really wanted to say was, if you think that you can send a clip of yourself to a college coach and he'll come watch you play, you're sadly mistaken about the process. College coaches go to big recruiting events, a few probably attend County Championship but vast majority of recruiting is done at showcase tourneys, and tryouts for things like Under Armour.