BOTC - US Lacrosse Community Forum Forums NORTHEAST LACROSSE BOTC MAIN FORUM (LI, CT, WC) Boys 2020-8th Grade Fall 2015 Summer 2016

The parents and the kids are well aware of the fact that certain teams do this - if it is okay with them, why do you care why they stay? Could be factors that none of us know about. If you want equal or different playing time, find a team that shares your philosophy.

Yea he probably doesn't know what he's doing !lololol watched crush this fall specifically for this type of stuff and they played two lines of midfield evenly as well as every kid playing more than a fair amount . I know they made some changes through tryouts and that seems to of settled that issue, so perhaps the kids removed were not there. I'm not sure why it concerns anyone on such a cut throat board seems odd. It actually is very petty if you can't beat them complain how they substitute ? While there style is very unique Those boys can play The coaches kid think he'll be fine lolol

When do you think the first 2020 will commit

It has nothing to do with school calendars, play with kids born in the same calendar year and stop crafting a narrative that works for you.

The player we all presume to commit early does not have too. Could he this year as an 8th grader sure but why? only to get scrutinized.

I think the top players will get smarter and realize they do not need to commit early. They don't need the praise. They will look at what the schools have committed in 18/19. I think a majority of the top players will be seen around soph year, although you will see a commit next Oct.

Other sports do calendar year cutoffs, sorry you need your son to play with his friends from his grade and can't handle playing with kids his own age.

His parents will be committed for stupidity before their son commits.

If the movement is towards graduation year teams, how does it not have anything to do with school calendars? Maybe the NY lax community should get in line with the majority of other states with regards to school dates and such.

My son can compete against kids in his own grade as well against kids born same calander as him. He does so in his other sport. NY clubs started the whole graduation year movement, now they are complaining because they are getting beat at their own game. A true 2020 graduate in about 40 states is born between 9/1/03 - 8/31/04, but hey, let's change it meet the NY standards that no other state has. Makes perfect sense! yoi guys are a bunch of Whiney guido [lacrosse] bags.

Nothing like a 5'8 computer keyboard tough guy who plays his kid down three years your a joke

As a previous poster mentioned, the majority of the country uses right around 9/1 as the grade cutoff date. Saying it has nothing to do with the school year is an asinine statement. NY happens to be in the minority - as in pretty much the ONLY district that uses a calendar year cutoff. You cannot argue with facts.

Jul. 31 – Hawaii (effective 2014-15), Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota
Aug. 1 – Arkansas, Indiana
Aug. 15 – Tennessee (effective 2014-15)
Aug. 31 – Arizona, Delaware, Kansas, New Mexico, North Carolina, Washington
Sept. 1 – Alabama, Alaska, California (effective 2014-15), Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, West Virginia, Wisconsin (19 states)
Sept. 10 – Montana
Sept. 15 – Iowa, Wyoming
Sept. 30 – District of Columbia, Louisiana, Nevada, Virginia
Oct. 1 – Colorado, Kentucky (Aug. 1 in 2017-18), Michigan (effective 2014-2015)
Oct. 15 – Maine
Jan. 1 (of the school year) – Connecticut
Local education agencies decide (the state may set a date range) – Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New [lacrosse], Ohio, Pennsylvania, Vermont

Crush parents defending that coach are pathetic. The point of youth sports is to get better and have fun (and, unfortunately, to lay the groundwork this early to be recruited).

No problem with Crush playing to win that game against Crabs. But the game was over early in the 3rd, yet they kept kids on the bench the entire game who had paid good money to fly and play in CO. You're telling me the lead wasn't secure enough to play some kids 10+ minutes when you're on national TV.

Obviously the Crush coaches only care about the 5-6 top kids, but that lack of regard for all the players/families is sad. They wanted to run up the score as much as possible against the Crabs to make a statement. That's one thing, but it's indefensible when kids sit on the bench the entire time as a result of it.

It was almost as embarrassing as them winning a game 30-0 in that tournament.

Crabs and Madlax are fair game to criticize over their holdbacks, but Crush is fair game as well.

I'm pretty sure when people refer to holdbacks they are talking about kids who were either eligible to start school and didn't or just flat out repeat a grade. The kids born from 9/1 -12/1 which is the difference your talking about is generally excepted because everyone knows different states have different cutoffs.

The system is grade based now. Regardless if you, me or everyone disagrees with it, that's what it is. Coaches just want the best kids in that particular grade, so they couldn't care less who is older or younger.

Getting upset about it on an Internet forum is pointless.

Nope, my kid is an on age public school student for all his sports! Go talk to your NY lax community to try and change the rules next year! But remember, we will all beat you at your own game. You are a bunch cry babies!

The joke is NY can't stand losing to out of state teams who went to their graduation based teams! Next time you all decide to change the game, so some more homework first, NY is the only American state withe the Canadien birthday cutoff.

June 2016.

But who would bet against at least a couple 2021's being committed in December 2016?

Nope, my kid is an on age public school student for all his sports! Go talk to your NY lax community to try and change the rules next year! But remember, we will all beat you at your own game. You are a bunch cry babies!

The joke is NY can't stand losing to out of state teams who went to their graduation based teams! Next time you all decide to change the game, so some more homework first, NY is the only American state withe the Canadien birthday cutoff. [/quot

You make me cheer for the crush

be a better father and cheer for your sons team

Or NY can start playing the game too and reclassing their kids and beat you at your own game. If NY is so competitive against teams loaded with holdbacks- just imagine if they loaded their teams with kids 12-24 months older too? What would happen then? Can we keep dropping our kids down? Don't worry- won't happen- we put emphasis on grades first which is why we have top notch public AND private schools. We know that smart kids taking advanced courses with athletic skill go a lot further than a kid with skill, held back 1-2 yrs to try to get recruited. I think we'd rather see our kids win in life than just on a field. Society and hovering, intrusive parents are making our kids today so soft. It's worse than a participation trophy- if your kid doesn't get a trophy, you make it possible by arranging a way he can. No faith in your kid -period.

most of your top 2020 NY teams now have holdbacks, even Crush 2020 has some, stop being a hypocrite! The graduation based teams is a monster you all created, deal with it.

Many holdbacks in NY are still age appropriate kids in other states. Deal with the fact that NY has better priorities and can compete without a bench full of kids 12-24 months older. We don't glorify kids that can't compete on the field by making them stars by leaving them back in the classroom. Get your priorities straight and tell your kids to toughen up and hit the books and don't buy them glory- that just makes a kid grow up weak. There will be more than enough kids getting recruited that didn't need to repeat grades or play with younger kids. Admire the hard worker in the classroom and on the field, pity the desperate, that plays and learns with younger kids. That's the hard truth.

Well said!! Holdback boys and their parents, you just can't ignore the negative stigma attached to playing down. This all becomes public information in the community. You think you garner respect for your son by doing that? You can't be that naive. He gets branded as the kid that couldn't cut it. No matter what he achieves on the field now, it's always diluted because of that badge. This is how you develop strong, confident young men?

accept responsibility for creating the graduation year club teams, and crating an uncontrollable monster that is youth lax. its all your fault! Crabs will be picking you apart this year.

do you view NY hold backs differently because they might be younger than hold backs from other regions?

First of all, NY has no top academic private schools. What a joke. Their all in PA, MD and New England states. Even Donald Trump sent his kid to PA for private school #The Hill School

[quote=Anonymous]First of all, NY has no top academic private schools. What a joke. Their all in PA, MD and New England states. Even Donald Trump sent his kid to PA for private school #The Hill School[quote=Anonymous]

Maybe your public schools aren't as good as you think, your spelling and grammar is atrocious. Better hit those books, go to a remedial English class and cheer for your sons team rather than crush.

Crush is going to dismantle very soon

Why so? I've heard that once top kids commit, the team will fall. Wouldn't that go for all teams? I actually don't think this is the case at all, unless it is the date of all top 1-5 teams.

They are all going to the Crabs 2021 team

No one is upset about the system being grade based, they are upset about it being broken, allowing people to take advantage of a huge loophole, at the expense of others.

Been hearing this for five years just stop and try to beat them
Such nonsense personally think that teams success has helped the entire 2020 class

It was a bad move to go grade base, the previous system worked just fine. The grade base system is easy to manipulate and US Lax has no backbone and doesn't enforce fair play.

It's not backbone. Age cards, enforcement, etc. takes manpower, time, money, etc. Look at the NCAA. It is hard for them to investigate/enforce all the rules.

Unfortunately, college coaches want to look at Rising 9th graders, so there is no push to go back to age based youth lacrosse (and many obviously support grade based because it helps with recruiting).

Its called integrity. Coaches can email in a list of players to USALAX with photos. An ID card is issued with the photo. Could take 15 min per team and interns do it. Not hard at all. It actually can be done while getting your USALAX number.

Play in year you were born, play up, but not play down. Its that easy. Don't care if you are going to re-class or PG you play in the year you were born. Youth Soccer and Men's League does it. There are over 3 Million registered youth soccer players compared to approximately 750,000 in youth lacrosse.

It not that they can't do it, they dont want to do it! US LAX doesn't have the backbone to stand up to the top clubs. Soccer has had the picture ID in place forever. I'm in my 40's and grew up playing soccer, we had the picture ID's when I was young, early 80's young.

Either US LAX doesn't want to enforce rules, or they aren't intelligent enough to incorporate age groups.

US Lacrosse office is located at Homewood Field on the campus of JHU. Crabs are in bed with JHU. JHU one of the biggest offenders of early recruiting, mostly holdbacks and re-class kids. Other Big 10 and ACC programs are also offenders. Is the picture getting clearer now??? These schools want the oldest most mature "freshman" they can get. When you are getting 20 year olds instead of 17and 18 year olds in as freshman, it is a huge advantage, this is why the Coaches recruit them.

Holdbacks will just play in their respective graduation year. That's all. The still will be older when they graduate. PG's play an extra year after high school so they will be a year older than the normal incoming freshman. Holdbacks will still be older but will play with their grad class. Still older than the kid they graduate with so these schools will still be getting more mature player like you said but without them playing versus younger players at tournaments. Is this all about dominating younger player? Its not about getting better. When I was young I played up in my sport to get better not down. Its those who play down that think they are better for it that are actually just beating younger players. It becomes a reality check when they start facing kids their own age or older when they see the truth of the matter. They weren't good enough in their own age group and that's why they re-class.

Yes, college coaches, all things being equal, want the 20 year old frosh over the 18 year old. But a move towards age based youth competition does not stop the college coach from doing this. The double hold backs can still happen, and these boys can still enter college at 20 if they choose to. They will just be playing club lacrosse vs boys born in their same year.
With earlier and earlier recruiting no one on this site has ever offered a logical explanation as to why coaches wouldn't prefer age based for evaluation purposes. If I am looking to offer a rising 9th grader after watching him all summer, and the kid is 16, I would rather he have played vs only 16 year old. Then I know he is good. But watching him dominate teams made up of mostly 14 year olds. This tells me far less, and as such, my offer is riskier.
I would think the club coaches would prefer it as well. I think they get more kids and have more teams with an age based system. This means more money. Yes, many of these teams will be B teams - oh my god, the dreaded B team - but more families I think would sign there kids up for summer lacrosse in an age based world.